Outnumbered Play and Poisons

RoamingRiverElk · April 2016

From this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261597/pax-dark-brotherhood-round-table-transcript#latest

"Q10: One of the things going into this update is poison making, what are the mechanics of poisons and could you give some examples?

RL: Yeah, so, poison making is an extension of alchemy. The way it works mechanically is that if you want to make a potion you use water but if you want to make a poison you use oil. So all the mixing and matching of various combinations are built into the system already. One of the things I'm really excited about is there are definite ways to start to drain resources from other players in PvP which changes the game play up a bit, so it's a really complex system."

Well isn't that exciting for those who like to win fights by outnumbering the enemy. They already don't need to use potions because they have such an advantage - now they can also drain the resources of people trying to fight them. Where do these stupid changes really stem from? As though people haven't already been complaining about the benefit of simply having more people having too much of an impact on the result of the fight (aside from the absolutely boring two second Vicious Death ganking).

Bone_Demon · April 2016

Are you by any chance a person who likes to hold his block button and not let it go until you die without doing anything else?

Panth141 · April 2016

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Besides, I would be very surprised if you could have two poisons acting upon you at once - I'd expect that only one of the 'group' you're fighting could poison you, whilst you could potentially poison all of them.

We know that snakeblood will offer some mitigation, so get that going, and if worst comes to worst, nail them with a slow/drain stamina poison, pop a speed potion and bug out!

This will give those who think about their build an extra element to work with and synergise. I expect the mindless zergs will all run a similar poison (Yeuhhhh, damage, more damage, yeuhhhhh), so outthink them, target those who your poisons will have the biggest effect on (Oh, he's a stamina NB, he'll just cloak away... bet he doesn't have loads of magicka though, let's drain it!).

This is an interesting new mechanic that people have requested since launch - please see how it is and give it a chance before condemning it.

BurritoESO · April 2016

You make a good point here, if changes go through they way you are making it sound then they are just gimping good players who like to solo/small scale even more.

BurritoESO · April 2016

I would imagine that sorcerers are going to be screwed with this. They already have very low stamina management and if you just pop them with one drain stamina pot i don't know how they would be able to defend it really. This goes for all magicka classes really, I don't like the way this sounds

timidobserver · April 2016

At least wait until you see the poison crafting system before whining about it.......

Makkir · April 2016

If only stamina classes required magicka to dodge/breakfree/block....

cschwingeb14_ESO · April 2016

Heh, this change is going to be terrible for 1vX'rs if more than 1 person can drain a single person's resources. Imagine trying to dodge or block when 5 people hit you with a stam drain poison. If you are drained for even half of the value of a stam potion, this is going to kill your resources

ToRelax · April 2016

This just seems so rediculous. I would hope ZOS would design these poisons wisely, but... I very much doubt it and with the attitude to just wait and see what they come up with first, it will be too late for a change if the past tells us anything.
In case anything said here might influence the design yet - a lot of problems could be avoided by creating poisons that debuff players with lower recovery rates or higher ability costs. If these do not stack, then it doesn't favour larger numbers, at least not to such an extent.

leem1988 · April 2016

I wonder how much damage the poisons would do with the vice cannon set.

Redn3ck · April 2016

Makkir wrote: »

If only stamina classes required magicka to dodge/breakfree/block....

Totally off topic....but I think it would be balance to have (purely for example) the roots to requires magicka to break free, or a different group of CC's that would require Magicka to break free from instead of stamina. Wouldn't this be the same idea of "to kill a magicka class, burn it's stam pool..." But in reverse? I think it could help stam builds out (some) freeing up more of their stam pool for dps (instead of it being the do everything pool).

ToRelax · April 2016

Redn3ck wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

If only stamina classes required magicka to dodge/breakfree/block....

Totally off topic....but I think it would be balance to have (purely for example) the roots to requires magicka to break free, or a different group of CC's that would require Magicka to break free from instead of stamina. Wouldn't this be the same idea of "to kill a magicka class, burn it's stam pool..." But in reverse? I think it could help stam builds out (some) freeing up more of their stam pool for dps (instead of it being the do everything pool).

Not really, a stam build can survive without magicka, too. It's ahrder of course, but they can still heal, break free, defend and attack, just lack utility. And things like Cloak or Scales that a stam build might use are as defensive skills most essential in outnumbered situations - here we go again.

Redn3ck · April 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

Redn3ck wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

If only stamina classes required magicka to dodge/breakfree/block....

Totally off topic....but I think it would be balance to have (purely for example) the roots to requires magicka to break free, or a different group of CC's that would require Magicka to break free from instead of stamina. Wouldn't this be the same idea of "to kill a magicka class, burn it's stam pool..." But in reverse? I think it could help stam builds out (some) freeing up more of their stam pool for dps (instead of it being the do everything pool).

Not really, a stam build can survive without magicka, too. It's ahrder of course, but they can still heal, break free, defend and attack, just lack utility. And things like Cloak or Scales that a stam build might use are as defensive skills most essential in outnumbered situations - here we go again.

True but wouldn't it also give magicka builds a little bit more freedom to work with? Not having to manage their stam to the nth degree?

ToRelax · April 2016

Redn3ck wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Redn3ck wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

If only stamina classes required magicka to dodge/breakfree/block....

Totally off topic....but I think it would be balance to have (purely for example) the roots to requires magicka to break free, or a different group of CC's that would require Magicka to break free from instead of stamina. Wouldn't this be the same idea of "to kill a magicka class, burn it's stam pool..." But in reverse? I think it could help stam builds out (some) freeing up more of their stam pool for dps (instead of it being the do everything pool).

Not really, a stam build can survive without magicka, too. It's ahrder of course, but they can still heal, break free, defend and attack, just lack utility. And things like Cloak or Scales that a stam build might use are as defensive skills most essential in outnumbered situations - here we go again.

True but wouldn't it also give magicka builds a little bit more freedom to work with? Not having to manage their stam to the nth degree?

If this cc was something similar to the ones we have, that completely takes away control over one's character, that could indeed allow one to attack an enemy's magicka pool. But it would also mean magicka and stamina become even more similar than they already are, players have to cc break twice as often (which costs time) and most likely a load of cc bugs.
If, however, such a magicka cc would not disable some stamina actions, similar to silence or immobilize, then all that would mostly affect magicka builds, and I don't think they would like it all that much.
That, and it wouldn't change the required stamina management for magicka builds in the slightest. Only a complete idiot would lower his formally deemed essential spending on stamina regen while leaving his damage untouched.

Wreuntzylla · April 2016

Bone_Demon wrote: »

Are you by any chance a person who likes to hold his block button and not let it go until you die without doing anything else?

Stop talking about me. Seriously, I mean it.

Metemsycosis · April 2016

Hopefully once affected there is a cool down period after, similar to cc. Not to mention (purge) (cleansing) antidote or immunity pots.

aLi3nZ · May 2016

Please tell me it's only possible to be effected by 1 poison at a time and that purge removes it. Some testing required. Having it possible to have more than 1 active on someone is stupid.