Spell Shield / Spell Resistance Nerf?

Troneon · March 2016

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...and spell penetration nerfed as well....so personally I have lost damage, resists, heals and more...SCREW THIS PATCH.

hrothbern · March 2016

Troneon wrote: »

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...

@Troneon ,

In the Patch notes 2.3.5 / "Combat & Gameplay" / Champion System / The Steed

"Spell Shield: This ability now grants a flat amount of Spell Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Spell Resistance".

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Troneon · March 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...

@Troneon ,

In the Patch notes 2.3.5 / "Combat & Gameplay" / Champion System / The Steed

"Spell Shield: This ability now grants a flat amount of Spell Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Spell Resistance".

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Completely sucks....especially if you are a templar...or any light armor / magicka build....it's a huge nerf to damage and defense...

But Sorc OP shields....don't even get touched...complete BS...

hrothbern · March 2016

Troneon wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...

@Troneon ,

In the Patch notes 2.3.5 / "Combat & Gameplay" / Champion System / The Steed

"Spell Shield: This ability now grants a flat amount of Spell Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Spell Resistance".

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Completely sucks....especially if you are a templar...or any light armor / magicka build....it's a huge nerf to damage and defense...

It weakens any build that stacks Resist Mitigation
Especially HA

Troneon · March 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...

@Troneon ,

In the Patch notes 2.3.5 / "Combat & Gameplay" / Champion System / The Steed

"Spell Shield: This ability now grants a flat amount of Spell Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Spell Resistance".

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Completely sucks....especially if you are a templar...or any light armor / magicka build....it's a huge nerf to damage and defense...

It weakens any build that stacks Resist Mitigation
Especially HA

Unless your a sorc and just stack shields and bastion WHICH WAS NOT CHANGED....like I said complete BS...

fastolfv_ESO · March 2016

Do DoT's not tick under the shields now killing a sorc no matter how much shielding they have? plus a new CP skill that deals more damage to players shielded. Seems to me there are plenty more ways to kill sorcs faster

Troneon · March 2016

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

Do DoT's not tick under the shields now killing a sorc no matter how much shielding they have? plus a new CP skill that deals more damage to players shielded. Seems to me there are plenty more ways to kill sorcs faster

But they didn't change bastion from % to a fixed number...nope.....

Taryf · March 2016

New Champion Points - Spell Shield and Heavy Armor Focus

Can someone tell me exactly what this "flat amount" is for vr16?

Now i got 15pts on Spell Shield and 10pts on Heavy Armor Focus. After patch my resistance will rise or decrease?

Maybe here someone will post some numbers and i will close older topic.

Tyrion87 · March 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Regarding the above, after the changes made to Light Armor Focus CP (from % to flat amount), is it still worth to put any points into Light Armor Focus as a magicka sorc (wearing at least 5 pieces of light armor)? Or should I allocate those points into Bastion instead? I care about the defence and atm I have 25 CPs spent into Elemental Defender, Hardy and Light Armor Focus each. But looking at the last changes, I wonder if Light Armor Focus is still that much attractive as it used to be, or should I move the CPs invested into Light Armor Focus to Bastion?

Zyle · March 2016

Troneon wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

Do DoT's not tick under the shields now killing a sorc no matter how much shielding they have? plus a new CP skill that deals more damage to players shielded. Seems to me there are plenty more ways to kill sorcs faster

But they didn't change bastion from % to a fixed number...nope.....

Why are you so concerned with bastion? Nerfing that to flat values would be a nerf to ALL shields, not just ward for sorcs. I don't want any more nerfs for small shields. I get the frustration behind % changing to flat values but don't take it out on specific class and try and compare it to bastion

Troneon · March 2016

Zyle wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

Do DoT's not tick under the shields now killing a sorc no matter how much shielding they have? plus a new CP skill that deals more damage to players shielded. Seems to me there are plenty more ways to kill sorcs faster

But they didn't change bastion from % to a fixed number...nope.....

Why are you so concerned with bastion? Nerfing that to flat values would be a nerf to ALL shields, not just ward for sorcs. I don't want any more nerfs for small shields. I get the frustration behind % changing to flat values but don't take it out on specific class and try and compare it to bastion

Im just saying they did it to spell resistance and penetration....but not to bastion.....

Heatley2142 · March 2016

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

Do DoT's not tick under the shields now killing a sorc no matter how much shielding they have? plus a new CP skill that deals more damage to players shielded. Seems to me there are plenty more ways to kill sorcs faster

Wow didnt hear about DoTs bypassing shields thats cool must try it out

Asmael · March 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Regarding the above, after the changes made to Light Armor Focus CP (from % to flat amount), is it still worth to put any points into Light Armor Focus as a magicka sorc (wearing at least 5 pieces of light armor)? Or should I allocate those points into Bastion instead? I care about the defence and atm I have 25 CPs spent into Elemental Defender, Hardy and Light Armor Focus each. But looking at the last changes, I wonder if Light Armor Focus is still that much attractive as it used to be, or should I move the CPs invested into Light Armor Focus to Bastion?

It was never a good idea to invest into light armor focus, getting a %based bonus on extremely low base values is terrible.
Even investing 100 CPs in it would give about 5-6% 3% mitigation against physical attacks, accounting for about 8k base physical resistance, you were better off speccing for critical resistance if you wanted to resist physical attacks.

I haven't crutched the numbers, but what we'll see for min/maxed builds will be a focus primarily on Hardy/Elemental defender, with some in Resistant.

Sorcs usually just pick Bastion instead of Resistant.

If someone has the charts for diminishing returns for the new armor focus (L/M/H), I'll take it...

EDIT: Finally found an old post, you get 1% mitigation for 663 spell/phys resist. I even remembered that light armor focus didn't even give 25% at 100 CPs, which means you would get for 8k armor and 100 CPs invested... 3% mitigation. This is worst than horrible for that amount of CPs.

hrothbern · March 2016

Taryf wrote: »

New Champion Points - Spell Shield and Heavy Armor Focus

Can someone tell me exactly what this "flat amount" is for vr16?

Now i got 15pts on Spell Shield and 10pts on Heavy Armor Focus. After patch my resistance will rise or decrease?

Maybe here someone will post some numbers and i will close older topic.

@Taryf ,

In HA (like me in my main character a HA NB Tank) you are slightly nerfed with the change. So your CP's in Spell Shield and HA Focus deliver slightly less additional Resistance.

The values are:
25 CP 1492
50 CP 2807
75 CP 4062
100 CP 5281

This max 5281 is the same buff that you get from Major Resolve or Major Ward (5280 to be precise)

This 5281 is also applicable to ALL buffs and debuffs from the CP tree.
So 100 CP in LA/MA/HA Focus delivers 5281 additional Resistance
and 100 CP in Spell Erosion or Piercing delivers 5281 more Penetration.

So for every buff in the CP tree there is an opposite and equal debuff.

I like this change, because it is an improvement for a more simple root-balancing by using consistency and symmetry.

What sucks for HA Users is that they are slightly nerfed and LA and MA benefit from this change, so further nerfing down HA as viable option. This means that the announced buffing of HA to compensate a whole row of detrimental changes in the past year of HA in the DB DLC is very important. Have to wait and see.

To explain the difference between LA/MA and HA of the change:
If you get from CP a % buff, the Armor with more Resistance (HA) will benefit more than Armor with a lower base Resist (LA/MA).
So in effect the change improved the Resist of LA and MA, HA staying close to equal.

hrothbern · March 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Regarding the above, after the changes made to Light Armor Focus CP (from % to flat amount), is it still worth to put any points into Light Armor Focus as a magicka sorc (wearing at least 5 pieces of light armor)? Or should I allocate those points into Bastion instead? I care about the defence and atm I have 25 CPs spent into Elemental Defender, Hardy and Light Armor Focus each. But looking at the last changes, I wonder if Light Armor Focus is still that much attractive as it used to be, or should I move the CPs invested into Light Armor Focus to Bastion?

It was never a good idea to invest into light armor focus, getting a %based bonus on extremely low base values is terrible.
Even investing 100 CPs in it would give about 5-6% mitigation against physical attacks, accounting for about 8k base physical resistance, you were better off speccing for critical resistance if you wanted to resist physical attacks.

I haven't crutched the numbers, but what we'll see for min/maxed builds will be a focus primarily on Hardy/Elemental defender, with some in Resistant.

Sorcs usually just pick Bastion instead of Resistant.

If someone has the charts for diminishing returns for the new armor focus (L/M/H), I'll take it...

IF your shield is almost always up you can min-max between the CP's: Hardy, Elemental Defence, Bastion and a few in Thick Skinned. Any points in Spell shield and Focus are a waste, even 1 point.
Thick Skinned does NOT help against spikes, but does help to improve your steady state mitigation. So therefore some in Thick Skinned pay back. IF ZOS continues to make DOT Damage more important you could increase it a bit. But as of now Burst is the meta in PVP and not DOT.

If your shield is not up a lot Hardy and Elemental become more important, and you should put some less in Bastion.

A lot depends on the kind of Damage you get.

Tyrion87 · March 2016

@hrothbern @Asmael

Thank you guys for very helpful responses! I will keep them in mind.
So now I need to redistribute some of my CPs into Bastion, cause my shield is always up

Troneon · March 2016

I wonder how much heavy/medium armor wearers are losing in spell resistance because of spell shield nerf...especially if you put 20+% into it...

If light armor wearers are losing 5k+ spell resistance from just having 5-10% in it before the patch compared to these changes..

Asmael · March 2016

Troneon wrote: »

I wonder how much heavy/medium armor wearers are losing in spell resistance because of spell shield nerf...especially if you put 20+% into it...

If light armor wearers are losing 5k+ spell resistance from just having 5-10% in it before the patch compared to these changes..

Resistance hard cap is 33150. All math below is done with the OLD CP system.

Supposing you get just enough from Spell resistance to hit the cap, you need X resistance such as X * 1.25 = 33150, or 26520

100 CPs grant you (33150 - 26520), or 6630 spell resist, this is the equivalent of exactly 10% mitigation against spells.

Even in this very specific case, you can clearly see how bad it is to invest in it, when 100 points in Hardy or Elemental defender grant you 25% for affected elements. The new CP system is indeed a nerf to heavy armor / very high resistance builds for those who used those stars, BUT there was no reason to invest points in it (except for the first point, since it has no diminishing returns).

TL;DR: this star still sucks.

Troneon · March 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

I wonder how much heavy/medium armor wearers are losing in spell resistance because of spell shield nerf...especially if you put 20+% into it...

If light armor wearers are losing 5k+ spell resistance from just having 5-10% in it before the patch compared to these changes..

Resistance hard cap is 33150. All math below is done with the OLD CP system.

Supposing you get just enough from Spell resistance to hit the cap, you need X resistance such as X * 1.25 = 33150, or 26520

100 CPs grant you (33150 - 26520), or 6630 spell resist, this is the equivalent of exactly 10% mitigation against spells.

Even in this very specific case, you can clearly see how bad it is to invest in it, when 100 points in Hardy or Elemental defender grant you 25% for affected elements. The new CP system is indeed a nerf to heavy armor / very high resistance builds for those who used those stars, BUT there was no reason to invest points in it (except for the first point, since it has no diminishing returns).

TL;DR: this star still sucks.

They made it completely worthless...

hrothbern · March 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

I wonder how much heavy/medium armor wearers are losing in spell resistance because of spell shield nerf...especially if you put 20+% into it...

If light armor wearers are losing 5k+ spell resistance from just having 5-10% in it before the patch compared to these changes..

Resistance hard cap is 33150. All math below is done with the OLD CP system.

Supposing you get just enough from Spell resistance to hit the cap, you need X resistance such as X * 1.25 = 33150, or 26520

100 CPs grant you (33150 - 26520), or 6630 spell resist, this is the equivalent of exactly 10% mitigation against spells.

Even in this very specific case, you can clearly see how bad it is to invest in it, when 100 points in Hardy or Elemental defender grant you 25% for affected elements. The new CP system is indeed a nerf to heavy armor / very high resistance builds for those who used those stars, BUT there was no reason to invest points in it (except for the first point, since it has no diminishing returns).

TL;DR: this star still sucks.

Well, with the exact question of OP being anwered, I guess we are allowed to derail a bit from OP and get to the underlying stuff as well.
Yes, as you say @Asmael , this star sucks
But it is more than that....

This star fundamentally unveils a basic flaw of the CP tree system.

Unless the CP cap is raised to approx 1200, it will NEVER pay to invest CP's in Spell Shield and LA/MA/HA Focus stars.
You will first fill up Hardy, Elemental Defense, Thick Skinned, Quick Recovery and Bastion (for Damage Shields) or Block Expertise (for Blocking).

This would change if the first handfull of CP's invested in eg Spell Shield would give a much higher amount of flat mitigation.
Because the 100 CP max value may not exceed 5281, the curve, or in other words, the diminishing return, must be made much stronger.
The other solution would be to get the max 5281 value already after 25 CP's and the star would max at a total 25 CP's as well.
IF one of these two solutions would be chosen, it is a little bit more complex and/or fun to min-max where to put your CP's best.

But as it is now, the CP stars Spell Shield & LA/MA/HA Focus could as well be left out and are useless until the cap moves to above 1200, with will take many, many years.

And what is flabbergasting me, is that all this was foreseeable at the moment the CP system was introduced......
The latest update is also the result of the "progressive insight" that some stars were not used....

If a dev plays himself the game...
would he really invest himself CP's in the Nourishing Star before the TG DLC... or in Spell Shield as it is now ?

Refuse2GrowUp · March 2016

Troneon wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Spell Shield use to give spell resistance by a % ....

Now it's a flat rate number that is crap....

I don't remember them saying anything about spell resistance / champion point / spell shield nerf?

I have lost around 4000 spell resistance and I only had a small amount of % in spell shield....will be even more of a loss with other builds...

Worst patch ever

Templars nerfed and now spell resistance nerfed on top...

@Troneon ,

In the Patch notes 2.3.5 / "Combat & Gameplay" / Champion System / The Steed

"Spell Shield: This ability now grants a flat amount of Spell Resistance per point spent that scales with your level, instead of granting a percentage increase to Spell Resistance".

Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus CP for Physical Resistance also give a flat amount.

Completely sucks....especially if you are a templar...or any light armor / magicka build....it's a huge nerf to damage and defense...

But Sorc OP shields....don't even get touched...complete BS...

Stop whining.

This change correlates to how they are changing physical resistance as well...which was also previously a %. Physcial builds couldn't stack spell resist and magicka builds couldn't stack physical resist. Now both can stack an equal amount of each. This is balance.

Troneon · March 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

I wonder how much heavy/medium armor wearers are losing in spell resistance because of spell shield nerf...especially if you put 20+% into it...

If light armor wearers are losing 5k+ spell resistance from just having 5-10% in it before the patch compared to these changes..

Resistance hard cap is 33150. All math below is done with the OLD CP system.

Supposing you get just enough from Spell resistance to hit the cap, you need X resistance such as X * 1.25 = 33150, or 26520

100 CPs grant you (33150 - 26520), or 6630 spell resist, this is the equivalent of exactly 10% mitigation against spells.

Even in this very specific case, you can clearly see how bad it is to invest in it, when 100 points in Hardy or Elemental defender grant you 25% for affected elements. The new CP system is indeed a nerf to heavy armor / very high resistance builds for those who used those stars, BUT there was no reason to invest points in it (except for the first point, since it has no diminishing returns).

TL;DR: this star still sucks.

Well, with the exact question of OP being anwered, I guess we are allowed to derail a bit from OP and get to the underlying stuff as well.
Yes, as you say @Asmael , this star sucks
But it is more than that....

This star fundamentally unveils a basic flaw of the CP tree system.

Unless the CP cap is raised to approx 1200, it will NEVER pay to invest CP's in Spell Shield and LA/MA/HA Focus stars.
You will first fill up Hardy, Elemental Defense, Thick Skinned, Quick Recovery and Bastion (for Damage Shields) or Block Expertise (for Blocking).

This would change if the first handfull of CP's invested in eg Spell Shield would give a much higher amount of flat mitigation.
Because the 100 CP max value may not exceed 5281, the curve, or in other words, the diminishing return, must be made much stronger.
The other solution would be to get the max 5281 value already after 25 CP's and the star would max at a total 25 CP's as well.
IF one of these two solutions would be chosen, it is a little bit more complex and/or fun to min-max where to put your CP's best.

But as it is now, the CP stars Spell Shield & LA/MA/HA Focus could as well be left out and are useless until the cap moves to above 1200, with will take many, many years.

And what is flabbergasting me, is that all this was foreseeable at the moment the CP system was introduced......
The latest update is also the result of the "progressive insight" that some stars were not used....

If a dev plays himself the game...
would he really invest himself CP's in the Nourishing Star before the TG DLC... or in Spell Shield as it is now ?

Exactly...