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Stop the reviving game!

  • Hexys
    Hexys
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    Sanct16 wrote: »
    How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

    Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

    /irony

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  • Deadfinger6
    Deadfinger6
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    I specialise in Rezerection. Don't buff my Duff
  • Nafirian
    Nafirian
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    Nothing can be done about the endless Elite and prootch res trains Hexys nothing embrace it and become a res bot! :trollface: But no seriously something has to be done about this crap entire raids spreading out and cockroach ressing all over the place then winning because they become too many to handle.
    Edited by Nafirian on March 5, 2016 9:51PM
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  • nans_biscuits
    nans_biscuits
    ✭✭
    I feel like the problem isn't how fast someone can be revived but the fact that you can be revived instantly after you die. I think there should be a flat 2 minute waiting time after you die in which you cannot be revived, but are free to respawn at a keep or forward camp.
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    ✭✭✭
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    1. The decent latency made it possible to quickly wipe groups and not everyone of the same alliance stacked into the same keep, this seems really popular in Azura EU lately.

    2. Dynamic ult gen was very helpful, I loved my Streak so much on my sorc back then...

    3. It also took people a lot longer back then to res someone because most players didnt have Alliance War passives unlocked and/or Kagrenacs to boost their res speed.

    The point of this thread (named: stop the reviving game) is that the meaning of dying is completely lost as long as you have enough allies around. And the question has been raised why this is the case and how this can be changed.

    Shouldnt players be rewarded for staying alive and killing other players?

    You get AP for kills. That is the reward.

    Taking an objective is something else.

    The game has resurrecting. You are looking for a different game. Like Counterstrike.
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

    Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

    /irony




    Try counterstrike. You die, you are out.

    This game has rezzing.

    The whole "meaningless" argument is unconvincing. Dying obviously matters because if you kill all opponents, no rezzing will happen.

    It seems that you just don't like anything that doesn't fit the way you personally want to play.
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hexys wrote: »
    It's time that something needs to be done against the endless reviving of players in cyrodiil. Lots of battles keep going on for ages because of this and slowly on more players will add to the battle creating more of a cluster increasing the latency on the campaigns. Not only is this bad for the campaigns it is also very unbalanced in which a player/group takes on larger numbers and can't finish the fight because the enemies are constantly getting their players up untill the player/group slowly die and loose the fight. Another bad point about reviving is that the killed player doesn't give their full alliance points anymore on the next death, making the motivation to fight less.

    Reviving speed bonuses (these bonuses will be changed in the next patch but will not fix it for the outnumbered players/groups)
    At this moment there are 3 ways to increase the speed of reviving a dead player: [1.] The Kagrenac's Hope Set which decreases the time by 25%, [2.] Battle Resurecction (Support passive) which gives 15% (rank 1) and 30% (rank 2) reduced time and as last, [3.] Master Ritualist (Templar passive) reducing it by another 20%.

    Suggestion @Hexys
    A suggestion might be to remove reviving speed percentages and put it into one buff like: Major Resurrection (Reduced the time of reviving an ally by 40%), Also when you got a revive you can't be revived for at least 5 minutes after the next death. Maybe change the passive from Battle Resurrection to rank 1 (Reduced the time from 5 minutes to 3 minutes before being able to revive) and rank 2 (Reduced the time from 3 minutes to 1 minute before being able to revive).

    Suggestion @Lastobeth
    Frustrating as that is, fighting versus significantly larger numbers, killing most of them, and within 5 seconds all of them being resurrected is even more frustrating. There should be a resurrection sickness at the very least - something like a 50% reduction in regeneration for 30 seconds or something (I'm just spitballing here).

    Suggestion @Solariken
    They should leave resurrection as it is - it's a super fun gameplay element.
    However, they should add a "banish soul" mechanic that players can use on dead enemies to prevent resurrection. It would basically function exactly like resurrection with maybe a different colored beam that is bashable/interruptible. Hell, it could even fill a soul gem.

    Suggestion @themdogesbite
    First death, no cooldown and you can get ressed just like now, second death however, you get a cooldown of lets say.. 2 miniutes. Not to bad and it might be worth waiting out the timer. For each death, one min gets added to the cooldown, it resets when you ress at a keep. So if you die after beeing ressed two times, you get a cooldown timer of 3 min, then 4 min etc where you are unable to be ressurected by soulgems.

    Suggestion @RadioheadSh0t
    Outside of the other good ideas in the OP, I'd like to see Soul Trap be an actual trap you that would arm on dead bodies. That would give solo players andsmall groups a strategic option to take down healers and keep them down. Mark the healer, take him down, and then they can't Rez him without a big AoE explosion for 30 seconds or a minute. That change would give solo and small groups a tool to use, while making a completely irrelevant skill relevant in PvP.

    Suggestion @Septimus_Magna
    - The first solution that comes to mind is a cooldown timer for others being able to res you.
    When you die once you can instantly get ressed, the second time you die you need to wait 1 minute before you can get ressed, the third time you need to wait 2 minutes etc. This timer resets when you respawn at a keep or at your home base.
    - The second solution that comes to mind is Soul Reservoir around keeps.
    Each time someone is ressed with a soulgem the Soul Reservoir is reduced by 1, when the Reservoir is empty you cannot res anymore allies. The Soul Reservoir is reset when fighting in and around the keeps has stopped.

    Would love to hear your opinions/suggestions so that I can add them to this post!

    1 NO RESURRECTION FOR 5 MIN!!! ZOS can't seperate PvP and PvE mechanics the worst idea I ever heard dungeons and trials would be impossible except for the top 1%

    2 again horrible for PvE they will never be able to add this to PvP only

    3 I like this one soul magic skillline could have passives for this

    4 again PvE nerf like 1 and 2

    5 I like this one soul trap is crap now it needs some incentive perhaps if killed while soul trapped cannot be rezed by a player for 30 seconds.

    6 same as 1,2,and 4

    Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that ZOS cant separate PVE and PVP.

    I agree that it shouldnt impact PVE but that has not been mentioned/proposed by anyone.

    A resurrection change could easily be added to the Cyrodiil Battle Spirit, that would have no impact on PVE whatsoever.

    @Septimus_Magna Okay how about this argument: the last thing a templar needs is to have their most iconic passive rendered useless half the time especially if no skill is involved on the opposing teams end. you want to stop resurrection you should have to use a skill to stop it. plus stop having faith in ZOS at least when it comes to separating PvP and PvE sure they CAN apply it to BS but like most Americans they will take the quickest, cheapest, and laziest rout and to cover there asses say "we want to make rezzing teammates more interesting"

    First of all, this passive will still be useul if you run dungeons with scrubs.

    Second, when fighting 3 full groups we cant kill players as fast as they can res. If you just interrupt them they can start ressing again when you move on. This literally means that you can beat a group that greatly outnumbers you as long as they are spread out and have soulgems.

    Do you want the biggest group should win just because they brought soulgems?

    Right now its just throwing bodies at the smaller group, they cant res if someone dies because enough enemy players can interrupt and single target them.

    How did you manage in 1.4 with forward camps? Seems the problem, as with every other bomb group, is that the pugs have learnt how to manage and deal with bomb groups more successfully than they have done before and now those who run in them want ZOS to implement mechanics that put the advantage back in their court instead of adapting to the gameplay of others.

    People run in zergs because aside from other things it's also the most effective counter to organised bomb groups. Gotta learn new tactics to manage the zergs first before wanting to change the game.

    1. The decent latency made it possible to quickly wipe groups and not everyone of the same alliance stacked into the same keep, this seems really popular in Azura EU lately.

    2. Dynamic ult gen was very helpful, I loved my Streak so much on my sorc back then...

    3. It also took people a lot longer back then to res someone because most players didnt have Alliance War passives unlocked and/or Kagrenacs to boost their res speed.

    The point of this thread (named: stop the reviving game) is that the meaning of dying is completely lost as long as you have enough allies around. And the question has been raised why this is the case and how this can be changed.

    Shouldnt players be rewarded for staying alive and killing other players?

    You get AP for kills. That is the reward.

    Taking an objective is something else.

    The game has resurrecting. You are looking for a different game. Like Counterstrike.

    AP is not the reward at all, winning the campaign is the goal. You dont win the campaign by farming AP but by taking objectives.

    If Im doing a trail and 11 guys die, I cannot Cloak to loose aggro and res everyone to continue the fight. The group wipes and has to start over, why should pvp be different?

    There is a res cooldown for ressing at forward camps (which is good), this could also be implemented for ressing someone for the 2nd time with soulgems.
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  • AyelineESO
    AyelineESO
    ✭✭✭
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    How about we just remove dieing completly as it looks like the majority of the players prefers death being meaningless anyway, so why waste soul gems? We all love randomly smashing buttons without having to worry about anything.

    Think about it: You will never have to ride back to the battle on your horse, you wont get frustrated because you died, new players can learn the game without dieing all the time... Wouldnt that be perfect?

    /irony




    Try counterstrike. You die, you are out.

    This game has rezzing.

    The whole "meaningless" argument is unconvincing. Dying obviously matters because if you kill all opponents, no rezzing will happen.

    It seems that you just don't like anything that doesn't fit the way you personally want to play.

    Spoken like a true zergling.

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  • prootch
    prootch
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    Rezing or camps... not different in the end.
  • contact.opiumb16_ESO
    No offense @Hexys but i know your playstyle, fighting you since... forever lol ! And i know you like the Blitz style. In this patch it is harder to play like this, it remains me the pre 1.6 battles, and i like it. It is harder to take a keep, and it's good like this for me.
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