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Temporary Fix for unlimited Resourcemanagment

Jeezye
Jeezye
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Alright, so one thing that annoys me alot is the meta of unlimited resources, especially in PvP. Since the introduction to the CP system, people can stack tons of points into their regen passives and basically get enough regen to never run out. This, by itself, would not be a problem, if they couldn't stack their maximum stamina/ magicka as well as their spell/ weapon dmg at the same time. This favors builds and classes that benefit from their maximum resources and spamming ability, which lead to PvP dominance of magicka sorcs who can spamm their shields or nightblades who can spamm their surprise attack forever. (I know other classes/ builds can also be strong, but those are the ones every has in this mind)

It's most likely common that well equipped builds hit the 40k resource mark in magicka/ stamina, with about 3-4.5 k weapon dmg or 3k Spell dmg as well as 2.5 k + regens in their main resource. As explained above, this means that especially players who don't have that much CP or players that don't have the time to grind to their CPs and gear are getting smashed by those with endgame status. The thing is, if a player chooses to go full glass cannon and be bursty, he should run out of his resources if he can't manage to kill his opponent quickly enough. Also, if he chooses to go for a sustain build, he should be able to outsustain his enemies and finish them by time.
I know that with the introduction to the non CP campaign people will be able to fight each other on the same level, but the described problem of beeing able to stack max resources, dmg and regens at the same time persists.

If one compares the current state of the game with the (often mentioned) 1.6 patch, what I see is that people can go fully into building around damage without having to worry about their resource management. So since this addresses a very fundamental system, combining item sets, buffs, CPs, classbalance etc and the regeneration varies from class to class, I'd like to state a pretty simple change, but that will go huge ways imo:

Remove the major regen buffs from potions.

I know that this will sound stupid at first, but have a closer look:
Right now, EVERY build, and I mean every build, as access to almost 100% uptime of all 3 major regen buffs just by using a potion every 45 seconds. This is a huge problem imo, since first this again favors players who have unlimited access to those over casual players and at the same time decreases the variations of builds by a lot. Since there is no need to equip skills that passively grant you major buffs (best example is green dragon blood), everyone just fits in another damage ability or empowering buff.

So if Zeni would decide to remove the buffs from potions, what would happen? First of all, every player that wants to have enough sustain will have to get those buffs through other ways. This would bring back intelligent building, in which you have to actually make decisions on wether you go for a full damage build or sacrifice another dmg ability for more sustain. An example would be a magicka sorc, using curse, frags, detonation and crushing shock, and has to give away one of those to buffs his magicka regen permanently. Removing the buffs from potions would also open up a huge opportunity to bring back skills that are never used in the current state (look at undaunted skill line, vampire skillline or soul magic skills, not to mention all those dead class abilites) to fill the place for the major regen buffs.


Well this suggestion will not fix the core problem of endless resources, but it would be an easy and effective step towards it, and as everyone knows, Zeni never fixes the core issues ;)

Tell me what ya think!
Edited by Jeezye on March 2, 2016 11:42PM
  • yodased
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    Maybe not everyone would be spamming steel tornado and going for the regen morph instead.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • danno8
    danno8
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    I like it.

    Would make skills with major regen on them actually useful.
  • D0ntevenL1ft
    D0ntevenL1ft
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    Are you suggesting that they remove the secondary buffs from potions and add them to a class skill so we must build around that as well? Either way i don't know if i speak for myself or for others, but i do not create my builds around the additional benefit from the pots and have enough sustain (usually) through gear and CP, and so i don't think this will have much of an effect because even if it was implemented i don't think i would change a thing :)
  • danno8
    danno8
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    Are you suggesting that they remove the secondary buffs from potions and add them to a class skill so we must build around that as well? Either way i don't know if i speak for myself or for others, but i do not create my builds around the additional benefit from the pots and have enough sustain (usually) through gear and CP, and so i don't think this will have much of an effect because even if it was implemented i don't think i would change a thing :)

    If you already build for pot-free sustain then yes, it will not have much effect on you.

    But many high end players completely ignore skills that have a major regeneration benefit because they simply down pots every 45 seconds.

    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least, and it seems unnecessary to have them on potions that already give you a sizable chunk of resource return.

    It also would make certain skills more valuable than they are now.
  • D0ntevenL1ft
    D0ntevenL1ft
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    danno8 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that they remove the secondary buffs from potions and add them to a class skill so we must build around that as well? Either way i don't know if i speak for myself or for others, but i do not create my builds around the additional benefit from the pots and have enough sustain (usually) through gear and CP, and so i don't think this will have much of an effect because even if it was implemented i don't think i would change a thing :)

    If you already build for pot-free sustain then yes, it will not have much effect on you.

    But many high end players completely ignore skills that have a major regeneration benefit because they simply down pots every 45 seconds.

    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least, and it seems unnecessary to have them on potions that already give you a sizable chunk of resource return.

    It also would make certain skills more valuable than they are now.

    Could you list any specific situations in which people would drop a dps skill for this said regen skill? They do not ignore the major regen buff completely because they get it from a pot, they ignore the regen buff because an extra dps skill is a more viable option compared to added regen in almost all situations because of gear and CP.
    Edited by D0ntevenL1ft on March 3, 2016 2:09AM
  • Ashamray
    Ashamray
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    Softcaps has been removed. Suffer now. Or enjoy, I don't know. I prefer to enjoy playing my supersustainable flexible character.
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  • Ampnode
    Ampnode
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    Ashamray wrote: »
    Softcaps has been removed. Suffer now. Or enjoy, I don't know. I prefer to enjoy playing my supersustainable flexible character.

    And as long as they're not present in the game, you'll get this problem. If the reason is because it makes PvE too restricted, then have softcaps in PvP only or something. It's silly to have 3.4K+ weapon damage, 2.8K+ regen, and 31K max stam. Damage, sustain, and mitigation all at once. Builds don't have any weaknesses anymore.
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  • danno8
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    danno8 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that they remove the secondary buffs from potions and add them to a class skill so we must build around that as well? Either way i don't know if i speak for myself or for others, but i do not create my builds around the additional benefit from the pots and have enough sustain (usually) through gear and CP, and so i don't think this will have much of an effect because even if it was implemented i don't think i would change a thing :)

    If you already build for pot-free sustain then yes, it will not have much effect on you.

    But many high end players completely ignore skills that have a major regeneration benefit because they simply down pots every 45 seconds.

    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least, and it seems unnecessary to have them on potions that already give you a sizable chunk of resource return.

    It also would make certain skills more valuable than they are now.

    Could you list any specific situations in which people would drop a dps skill for this said regen skill? They do not ignore the major regen buff completely because they get it from a pot, they ignore the regen buff because an extra dps skill is a more viable option compared to added regen in almost all situations because of gear and CP.

    Templar has the worst resource management in the game. One of the skills Restoring Aura provides major and minor regeneration for all resources (magicka included starting in TG), but the flip skill, Repentance provides a quick burst of resources all at once, but just health and stamina, although you need corpses around to use it.

    Many Templars slot Repentance, because as stated Templars do not enjoy the natural resource management that other classes do, but they never slot Restoring Aura because of potions.

    So that's one example.

    Another would be GDB compared to Coagulating Blood. Since the introduction of the major/minor system GDB seems redundant with the extra stamina regeneration, so most now go for the Coagulating blood for the 20% extra healing.

    There are probably more. The fact that you don't think it will make a difference at all means they could remove it. Can't think of anything bad that would come from it, but maybe some good would.
  • flguy147ub17_ESO
    flguy147ub17_ESO
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    Ampnode wrote: »
    Ashamray wrote: »
    Softcaps has been removed. Suffer now. Or enjoy, I don't know. I prefer to enjoy playing my supersustainable flexible character.

    And as long as they're not present in the game, you'll get this problem. If the reason is because it makes PvE too restricted, then have softcaps in PvP only or something. It's silly to have 3.4K+ weapon damage, 2.8K+ regen, and 31K max stam. Damage, sustain, and mitigation all at once. Builds don't have any weaknesses anymore.

    If you have 501 CP, you can build an insanely powerful toon and some people want to raise the CP cap more each quarter or not even have one. Before you know it people will be soloing raid/trial bosses in 15-20 secs if you didnt have caps. I will say it again, the CP system is as bad as you can get for a progression system i think and even worse when your level 10 character can run around with 501 CP.

  • ArgoCye
    ArgoCye
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    I like this idea. I love pots but they did have a hand in making skills like GDR redundant.

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  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
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    Jeezye wrote: »
    Alright, so one thing that annoys me alot is the meta of unlimited resources, especially in PvP. Since the introduction to the CP system, people can stack tons of points into their regen passives and basically get enough regen to never run out. This, by itself, would not be a problem, if they couldn't stack their maximum stamina/ magicka as well as their spell/ weapon dmg at the same time. This favors builds and classes that benefit from their maximum resources and spamming ability, which lead to PvP dominance of magicka sorcs who can spamm their shields or nightblades who can spamm their surprise attack forever. (I know other classes/ builds can also be strong, but those are the ones every has in this mind)

    It's most likely common that well equipped builds hit the 40k resource mark in magicka/ stamina, with about 3-4.5 k weapon dmg or 3k Spell dmg as well as 2.5 k + regens in their main resource. As explained above, this means that especially players who don't have that much CP or players that don't have the time to grind to their CPs and gear are getting smashed by those with endgame status. The thing is, if a player chooses to go full glass cannon and be bursty, he should run out of his resources if he can't manage to kill his opponent quickly enough. Also, if he chooses to go for a sustain build, he should be able to outsustain his enemies and finish them by time.
    I know that with the introduction to the non CP campaign people will be able to fight each other on the same level, but the described problem of beeing able to stack max resources, dmg and regens at the same time persists.

    If one compares the current state of the game with the (often mentioned) 1.6 patch, what I see is that people can go fully into building around damage without having to worry about their resource management. So since this addresses a very fundamental system, combining item sets, buffs, CPs, classbalance etc and the regeneration varies from class to class, I'd like to state a pretty simple change, but that will go huge ways imo:

    Remove the major regen buffs from potions.

    I know that this will sound stupid at first, but have a closer look:
    Right now, EVERY build, and I mean every build, as access to almost 100% uptime of all 3 major regen buffs just by using a potion every 45 seconds. This is a huge problem imo, since first this again favors players who have unlimited access to those over casual players and at the same time decreases the variations of builds by a lot. Since there is no need to equip skills that passively grant you major buffs (best example is green dragon blood), everyone just fits in another damage ability or empowering buff.

    So if Zeni would decide to remove the buffs from potions, what would happen? First of all, every player that wants to have enough sustain will have to get those buffs through other ways. This would bring back intelligent building, in which you have to actually make decisions on wether you go for a full damage build or sacrifice another dmg ability for more sustain. An example would be a magicka sorc, using curse, frags, detonation and crushing shock, and has to give away one of those to buffs his magicka regen permanently. Removing the buffs from potions would also open up a huge opportunity to bring back skills that are never used in the current state (look at undaunted skill line, vampire skillline or soul magic skills, not to mention all those dead class abilites) to fill the place for the major regen buffs.


    Well this suggestion will not fix the core problem of endless resources, but it would be an easy and effective step towards it, and as everyone knows, Zeni never fixes the core issues ;)

    Tell me what ya think!

    I think your premise is wrong. Players can stack individual stats, but they can't stack ALL of them at once. My current sorc build stacks magicka all the way up to 48K, but I have to endure 1300 regen and 2500 spell damage. My old build could stack spell damage all the way to 3500, but my magicka was only around 40K.... see how that works? I would love to have 48K magicka, 3500 spell damage and 2500 regen, but I can't have those all at once, so I don't even understand what you are complaining about.

    All you guys asking for regen nerfs forget what ESO was like at launch... you could run out of magicka and die just fighting some random troll or swarm of wasps. It was HORRIBLE. Endgame players back then depended on gear like Warlock, Arch-Mage and Desert Rose to sustain their fancy "magicka battery" builds, but all that gear has been nerfed hard since then, and it ain't coming back. Potions had much shorter cooldowns, too, and those days ain't coming back either.

    dude do you have an idea of how OP 48 k magicka is?! I'm not quite sure how you get to such values, maybe with necropotence. The thing is, I'm more of a casual player and have ~350 CPs, and I'm happy if my DK hits 30k stam while having ~2k regens and 3k weapon dmg. Imo, if you choose to go for 48 k freaking max magicka, you're supposed to have no sources in spell power and regens AT ALL. Saying your old build "only" had 40k magicka is exactly what I'm saying, by the time your actually running out of your magicka you've instakilled a whole raid with detonations and dawnbreakers. If you choose to have such a high bursty build, which you'll have with 40+k magicka and 2,5k + spelldmg, you hell of shouldn't have any regens at all and back of once your pool is empty. Thats my sight of view..
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    Class Representative
    You're thinking too hard.

    Potions are not the problem. Many people don't even use the resource potions (Immovable, detect, weapon/spell power, etc.) and those that do use the resource pots typically pop them only when their health is low. That 20% isn't making that much difference. Removing the regen component wouldn't make a difference at all to me in Cyrodiil and only make doing Veteran Maelstrom more tedious than it is.

    The sustain problem happened with 1.6 (the patch you want to go back to) with the removal of soft caps. The only worthwhile thing to invest in is our damage attributes so that's why there are so many high damage + sustain builds.
    Edited by Joy_Division on March 3, 2016 7:51AM
  • MormondPayne_EP
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    Or...and here is a radical idea...

    Instead of a temporary fix... how about they FIX IT PROPERLY!!!!!
  • MikeB
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    Jeezye wrote: »
    Alright, so one thing that annoys me alot is the meta of unlimited resources, especially in PvP. Since the introduction to the CP system, people can stack tons of points into their regen passives and basically get enough regen to never run out. This, by itself, would not be a problem, if they couldn't stack their maximum stamina/ magicka as well as their spell/ weapon dmg at the same time. This favors builds and classes that benefit from their maximum resources and spamming ability, which lead to PvP dominance of magicka sorcs who can spamm their shields or nightblades who can spamm their surprise attack forever. (I know other classes/ builds can also be strong, but those are the ones every has in tdamagend)

    It's most likely common that well equipped builds hit the 40k resource mark in magicka/ stamina, with about 3-4.5 k weapon dmg or 3k Spell dmg as well as 2.5 k + regens in their main resource. As explained above, this means that especially players who don't have that much CP or players that don't have the time to grind to their CPs and gear are getting smashed by those with endgame status. The thing is, if a player chooses to go full glass cannon and be bursty, he should run out of his resources if he can't manage to kill his opponent quickly enough. Also, if he chooses to go for a sustain build, he should be able to outsustain his enemies and finish them by time.
    I know that with the introduction to the non CP campaign people will be able to fight each other on the same level, but the described problem of beeing able to stack max resources, dmg and regens at the same time persists.

    If one compares the current state of the game with the (often mentioned) 1.6 patch, what I see is that people can go fully into building around damage without having to worry about their resource management. So since this addresses a very fundamental system, combining item sets, buffs, CPs, classbalance etc and the regeneration varies from class to class, I'd like to state a pretty simple change, but that will go huge ways imo:

    Remove the major regen buffs from potions.

    I know that this will sound stupid at first, but have a closer look:
    Right now, EVERY build, and I mean every build, as access to almost 100% uptime of all 3 major regen buffs just by using a potion every 45 seconds. This is a huge problem imo, since first this again favors players who have unlimited access to those over casual players and at the same time decreases the variations of builds by a lot. Since there is no need to equip skills that passively grant you major buffs (best example is green dragon blood), everyone just fits in another damage ability or empowering buff.

    So if Zeni would decide to remove the buffs from potions, what would happen? First of all, every player that wants to have enough sustain will have to get those buffs through other ways. This would bring back intelligent building, in which you have to actually make decisions on wether you go for a full damage build or sacrifice another dmg ability for more sustain. An example would be a magicka sorc, using curse, frags, detonation and crushing shock, and has to give away one of those to buffs his magicka regen permanently. Removing the buffs from potions would also open up a huge opportunity to bring back skills that are never used in the current state (look at undaunted skill line, vampire skillline or soul magic skills, not to mention all those dead class abilites) to fill the place for the major regen buffs.


    Well this suggestion will not fix the core problem of endless resources, but it would be an easy and effective step towards it, and as everyone knows, Zeni never fixes the core issues ;)

    Tell me what ya think!

    I think your premise is wrong. Players can stack individual stats, but they can't stack ALL of them at once. My current sorc build stacks magicka all the way up to 48K, but I have to endure 1300 regen and 2500 spell damage. My old build could stack spell damage all the way to 3500, but my magicka was only around 40K.... see how that works? I would love to have 48K magicka, 3500 spell damage and 2500 regen, but I can't have those all at once, so I don't even understand what you are complaining about.

    All you guys asking for regen nerfs forget what ESO was like at launch... you could run out of magicka and die just fighting some random troll or swarm of wasps. It was HORRIBLE. Endgame players back then depended on gear like Warlock, Arch-Mage and Desert Rose to sustain their fancy "magicka battery" builds, but all that gear has been nerfed hard since then, and it ain't coming back. Potions had much shorter cooldowns, too, and those days ain't coming back either.

    The additional 8k magicka over 40k is worth much more than the 1k spell damage from 3500 to 2500. Your shields benefit a lot from magicka, much more than spell dmg. Not to mention the 8k magicka is equal to ~850 spell dmg so you're actually only losing ~150 points of equivalent spell dmg. The 8k additional magicka is also equivalent to the lost regen until it runs out, you will only see the affects when fighting groups. Not to mention 1300 regen is more than enough considering the cost of spells with the reduced cost CP and even more so if you use the reduced cost enchants.

    There aren't options in builds and gear, just stacking more of everything.
    Edited by MikeB on March 3, 2016 8:13AM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Problem with your approach is: Sustain always trumps offense because with the way eso is set up defensive abilities are stronger than offensive ones (because they are designed to offer defense when multiple people are attacking you).

    It simply does not work. The only thing your proposition achieves is people switch a glyph or an undaunted piece. You´d nerf the people already having a sustain focused build way more than those playing with 1000 reg anyway because potions have less of an impact on burst builds than they do on sustain builds - they´re % based on what you already have...

    I like the current system where everybody can build around stats they´re comfortable with way better.


    I think it would work to reduce the magica and stamina reg cp to 16% down from 25% and reducing regeneration bonuses by 30% for sets and glyphs
    Edited by Derra on March 3, 2016 9:57AM
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  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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  • ToRelax
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    Well I don't like the buff system, and the potions are maybe the largest offender as they make so many skill obsolete. But yeah, this isn't actually going to help balance the meta.
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  • RoamingRiverElk
    RoamingRiverElk
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    What bothers me is how they put high cost on defensive skills, but when you outnumber your enemy, it's very cheap to attack. Relatedly, I don't think it was right to make all the skills granting Major Expedition to grant only 30% speed buff. Rapid Maneuver, yes, but skills which only give the speed buff to the one who activates the skill should retain the 40% speed buff - like with Elusive Mist and the bow roll dodge passive.
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    danno8 wrote: »
    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least

    Great, another proposed PvE nerf thanks to PvP whining.
    Edited by code65536 on March 3, 2016 1:32PM
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  • danno8
    danno8
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    code65536 wrote: »
    danno8 wrote: »
    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least

    Great, another proposed PvE nerf thanks to PvP whining.

    Well if you believe half the people in this thread it wouldn't make any difference anyway, so one wonders why it is even on potions to start with if that is the case.

    "It won't make any difference, don't get rid of it though!"

    hmm....
  • xarguideb17_ESO
    xarguideb17_ESO
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    L2p issue :smiley:
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    MikeB wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    Alright, so one thing that annoys me alot is the meta of unlimited resources, especially in PvP. Since the introduction to the CP system, people can stack tons of points into their regen passives and basically get enough regen to never run out. This, by itself, would not be a problem, if they couldn't stack their maximum stamina/ magicka as well as their spell/ weapon dmg at the same time. This favors builds and classes that benefit from their maximum resources and spamming ability, which lead to PvP dominance of magicka sorcs who can spamm their shields or nightblades who can spamm their surprise attack forever. (I know other classes/ builds can also be strong, but those are the ones every has in tdamagend)

    It's most likely common that well equipped builds hit the 40k resource mark in magicka/ stamina, with about 3-4.5 k weapon dmg or 3k Spell dmg as well as 2.5 k + regens in their main resource. As explained above, this means that especially players who don't have that much CP or players that don't have the time to grind to their CPs and gear are getting smashed by those with endgame status. The thing is, if a player chooses to go full glass cannon and be bursty, he should run out of his resources if he can't manage to kill his opponent quickly enough. Also, if he chooses to go for a sustain build, he should be able to outsustain his enemies and finish them by time.
    I know that with the introduction to the non CP campaign people will be able to fight each other on the same level, but the described problem of beeing able to stack max resources, dmg and regens at the same time persists.

    If one compares the current state of the game with the (often mentioned) 1.6 patch, what I see is that people can go fully into building around damage without having to worry about their resource management. So since this addresses a very fundamental system, combining item sets, buffs, CPs, classbalance etc and the regeneration varies from class to class, I'd like to state a pretty simple change, but that will go huge ways imo:

    Remove the major regen buffs from potions.

    I know that this will sound stupid at first, but have a closer look:
    Right now, EVERY build, and I mean every build, as access to almost 100% uptime of all 3 major regen buffs just by using a potion every 45 seconds. This is a huge problem imo, since first this again favors players who have unlimited access to those over casual players and at the same time decreases the variations of builds by a lot. Since there is no need to equip skills that passively grant you major buffs (best example is green dragon blood), everyone just fits in another damage ability or empowering buff.

    So if Zeni would decide to remove the buffs from potions, what would happen? First of all, every player that wants to have enough sustain will have to get those buffs through other ways. This would bring back intelligent building, in which you have to actually make decisions on wether you go for a full damage build or sacrifice another dmg ability for more sustain. An example would be a magicka sorc, using curse, frags, detonation and crushing shock, and has to give away one of those to buffs his magicka regen permanently. Removing the buffs from potions would also open up a huge opportunity to bring back skills that are never used in the current state (look at undaunted skill line, vampire skillline or soul magic skills, not to mention all those dead class abilites) to fill the place for the major regen buffs.


    Well this suggestion will not fix the core problem of endless resources, but it would be an easy and effective step towards it, and as everyone knows, Zeni never fixes the core issues ;)

    Tell me what ya think!

    I think your premise is wrong. Players can stack individual stats, but they can't stack ALL of them at once. My current sorc build stacks magicka all the way up to 48K, but I have to endure 1300 regen and 2500 spell damage. My old build could stack spell damage all the way to 3500, but my magicka was only around 40K.... see how that works? I would love to have 48K magicka, 3500 spell damage and 2500 regen, but I can't have those all at once, so I don't even understand what you are complaining about.

    All you guys asking for regen nerfs forget what ESO was like at launch... you could run out of magicka and die just fighting some random troll or swarm of wasps. It was HORRIBLE. Endgame players back then depended on gear like Warlock, Arch-Mage and Desert Rose to sustain their fancy "magicka battery" builds, but all that gear has been nerfed hard since then, and it ain't coming back. Potions had much shorter cooldowns, too, and those days ain't coming back either.

    The additional 8k magicka over 40k is worth much more than the 1k spell damage from 3500 to 2500. Your shields benefit a lot from magicka, much more than spell dmg....

    That's why I switched my build... I'm quick like that :wink:

    Some of you guys are making it sound like builds like mine are "OP" or something. That's so far from the truth! My build is barely adequate and still needs a lot of improvement. Thanks to the Battle Spirit nerf on wards, Sorcs NEED to stack magicka up to the highest possible levels to deal with all the increased damage from Wrecking Blows and Surprise Attacks. ZOS never should have nerfed heals and wards by 50%, because it totally defeated the purpose of the 50% damage nerf.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • HeroOfNone
    HeroOfNone
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    You still have several abilities that give the major regeneration buff for various stats, plus you risk hurting PVE this way. If you'd like to affect just PVP and not PVE I recommend adding a 50% to 60% regen & resource generating abilities (battle roar, templar spears, etc.) reduction in battle spirit and then increase armor values by 150% to 200%.

    You should see burst builds decline, hybrid & tank builds increase, and few builds able to outlast (assuming we reduce regeneration enough).
    Herfi Driderkitty of the Aldmeri Dominion
    Find me on : Twitch | Youtube | Twitter | Reddit | Furaffinity
    My Guilds: TESO Furry Group | Dungeon Dwellers | Blue Skooma Roleplaying | Epic Synergy

    Meow mew meow~
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    @Jeezye, this is brilliant. Removing Major Regens from potions is actually a REALLY good idea for balance. It goes a long way toward solving the infinite resource problem and makes Restoring Aura and Dragon's Blood viable and interesting again. I hope the devs consider this.
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    danno8 wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    danno8 wrote: »
    I think it's a good idea, since unlimited resources are a frequent complaint in PvP at least

    Great, another proposed PvE nerf thanks to PvP whining.

    Well if you believe half the people in this thread it wouldn't make any difference anyway, so one wonders why it is even on potions to start with if that is the case.

    "It won't make any difference, don't get rid of it though!"

    hmm....

    It would change things, just without further changes in the wrong direction. Potions provide more regen to players that already invest more into it. Of course it would be nice to have things like Green Dragon Blood acutally give benefits again, but simply deleting the buffs from potions won't be a good idea unless players have to invest more into sustain for what they have now.
    HeroOfNone wrote: »
    You still have several abilities that give the major regeneration buff for various stats, plus you risk hurting PVE this way. If you'd like to affect just PVP and not PVE I recommend adding a 50% to 60% regen & resource generating abilities (battle roar, templar spears, etc.) reduction in battle spirit and then increase armor values by 150% to 200%.

    You should see burst builds decline, hybrid & tank builds increase, and few builds able to outlast (assuming we reduce regeneration enough).

    No.... not really, players would simply readjust their stats because that's rediculously easy to do. My own build would be buffed tremendously, gaining a whole lot of armor, sacrificing some magicka for regen and freeing up a slot from Harness, where I then put Radiant Magelight. Meaning I would be more tanky, especially against stamina builds wich are otherwise my weakness, and deal more damage as well.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Docmandu
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    Always found it fishy that pots can give you a 100% uptime of a 20% boosted regen... redonculous.

  • HeroOfNone
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    HeroOfNone wrote: »
    You still have several abilities that give the major regeneration buff for various stats, plus you risk hurting PVE this way. If you'd like to affect just PVP and not PVE I recommend adding a 50% to 60% regen & resource generating abilities (battle roar, templar spears, etc.) reduction in battle spirit and then increase armor values by 150% to 200%.

    You should see burst builds decline, hybrid & tank builds increase, and few builds able to outlast (assuming we reduce regeneration enough).

    No.... not really, players would simply readjust their stats because that's rediculously easy to do. My own build would be buffed tremendously, gaining a whole lot of armor, sacrificing some magicka for regen and freeing up a slot from Harness, where I then put Radiant Magelight. Meaning I would be more tanky, especially against stamina builds wich are otherwise my weakness, and deal more damage as well.

    I'd be looking to reduce harness magicka as well. ANY resource generating abilities would be facing a 50% to 60% reduction in their gain (open to raise or lower the bar, depending on results).

    The armor gain will be good however, you'll take less damage, but will you be able to dish it out? Those high cost abilities won't be ready if you don't heavy weave or stack on regeneration runes instead of weapon power/spell power ones. If you cast a couple healing spells to stay up you may be out of magic when someone hits a burst phase. Try to block though too much and you have no stamina to CC break when the knock you down and chop away with light or heavy attacks.

    Cutting out the resources and raising the mitigation changes a LOT, changing your average 10 second fight into possibly a minute long slug fest. Some builds of today may not survive, but that's why you adapt.
    Herfi Driderkitty of the Aldmeri Dominion
    Find me on : Twitch | Youtube | Twitter | Reddit | Furaffinity
    My Guilds: TESO Furry Group | Dungeon Dwellers | Blue Skooma Roleplaying | Epic Synergy

    Meow mew meow~
  • Autolycus
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    I'd like to see some examples of people who have 40k+ max stat, 4-5k weapon/spell damage, and 2.5k regen. Most people I know give up a great deal of sustain for those max stat and damage equivalents. Those that I know of who are predominantly pvpers and are comfortable with ~2.5k regen do not have anywhere near the max stats and weapon/spell damage you are claiming. Usually I see 2.5k regen on players with 30k max stat and 3-3.5k weapon/spell damage. Typically your magicka sorcs who have those kinds of max magicka and spell damage values have very little recovery, which they make up for by spending a good portion of the fight doing nothing but Overload light attacks, which requires no magicka (and recovery is still active during Overload, so you can regen while light attacking basically).

    An example is my stam sorc, who in pve runs with 5200 weapon damage, 900 stam recovery and 36k stamina. In pvp I run Orzorga's food on him for max health and recoveries, which drops my max stam to 30k, in favor of another ~500 recovery. The same is true for my magicka NB, whose max magicka drops from 37k (it's lower than 40k b/c I run a hybrid build) to 30k in favor of another 500 magicka recovery, which is normally only 800 in pve.

    Most people say that ~1500 recovery is too low, but I've found that I can survive and sustain my stam/mag for fights lasting as long as 10 minutes. It makes me question why people feel the need for 2500 recovery in a game where damage is a trump card for most scenarios.
    Edited by Autolycus on March 4, 2016 9:33PM
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    HeroOfNone wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    HeroOfNone wrote: »
    You still have several abilities that give the major regeneration buff for various stats, plus you risk hurting PVE this way. If you'd like to affect just PVP and not PVE I recommend adding a 50% to 60% regen & resource generating abilities (battle roar, templar spears, etc.) reduction in battle spirit and then increase armor values by 150% to 200%.

    You should see burst builds decline, hybrid & tank builds increase, and few builds able to outlast (assuming we reduce regeneration enough).

    No.... not really, players would simply readjust their stats because that's rediculously easy to do. My own build would be buffed tremendously, gaining a whole lot of armor, sacrificing some magicka for regen and freeing up a slot from Harness, where I then put Radiant Magelight. Meaning I would be more tanky, especially against stamina builds wich are otherwise my weakness, and deal more damage as well.

    I'd be looking to reduce harness magicka as well. ANY resource generating abilities would be facing a 50% to 60% reduction in their gain (open to raise or lower the bar, depending on results).

    The armor gain will be good however, you'll take less damage, but will you be able to dish it out? Those high cost abilities won't be ready if you don't heavy weave or stack on regeneration runes instead of weapon power/spell power ones. If you cast a couple healing spells to stay up you may be out of magic when someone hits a burst phase. Try to block though too much and you have no stamina to CC break when the knock you down and chop away with light or heavy attacks.

    Cutting out the resources and raising the mitigation changes a LOT, changing your average 10 second fight into possibly a minute long slug fest. Some builds of today may not survive, but that's why you adapt.

    Read my post again, I am currently using Harness and would change it to Radiant Magelight with this change. That way I would take and deal more damage. I already have a relatively sustain focused build, but that does in no way mean it's anywhere near balanced. You wouldn't want to have everyone run around like me for sure.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
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