I cannot complete vet city of ash

Lewandowsky · March 2016

I seem to be totally incapable. I've tried with PUG groups and failed, no surprise there really, but with group finder of varied levels and all-VR16 from alliance areas equally. I've run with guildmates, all VR16. I've vowed I will never run it again probably 5x, tried about 20. One thing that makes it more painful is I do have impenetrable Valkyn Skoria shoulders, and I actually prefer PVP. Could be quite useful. If, that is, I ever even complete the run and have the 1/30 shot at the helm.

Of course I have noticed the common feature in all my failures is, well, me. Overall, if I measure my dps selectively and in well formed tight groups I can get 30k dps, but in sustained boss fights 10-13k is more consistent. Which I thought was respectable - I know some people can get 30k sustained like particularly sorcs, but I thought that was the exception. In the groups no has ever really been like "Hey dude you're the problem," the feeling ends up being about equally sometimes tank gets blamed sometimes dps rarely heals.

I'm VR16. My setup is sharpened 2H with surprise attack, rally, ambush, executioner, and bone shield. Also sharpened bow with poison injection, resolving vigor, acid spray, camo hunter, and snipe. Ultimate when I try this is typically ice comet. For stat points 12 in health and 52 in stamina. With stam/health food buff weapon damage is 2752, weapon critical 53.8%, max stam 33722 (regen 801), health 18180 (214). I am a vamp, and have a legendary VR16 flame resist enchant on 1 jewelry. Gear is 3 piece agility jewelry robust, and armor is all legendary, 5 piece Hundings and 3 piece Night Mother's. Heavy chest and light belt because I have all the undaunted enchants. Armor is all infused with stamina enchants. On weapons I have diseased enchants.

What is it going to take? 300k in gold for a total gear rebuild that someone particularly recommends for a sneaky type NB dps preference? And then I'll probably have to just abandon all the gear anyway because I prefer gank-style PVP? Is it hopeless and I need to go make a sorc which will be about ready when the game eventually dies? I need direction.

DHale · March 2016

Valkyn skoria helm and shoulder is beautiful possibly the best looking set in the game. That said, even when it was proc ing all the time it did not do very much damage. ATM it rarely procs and the damage is literally a 1000 per meteor less than a light attack. The meteor just never seemed to do much damage so to be thinking it's going to "make your build". It may be a great pve set. Blood spawn and engine guardian seem so much more useful. I would never use valkyn skoria for a sorc not many dot abilities.

Lewandowsky · March 2016

In my delusions of grandeur I imagine the Skoria set could have a place in an anti-zerg hot-key setup, for when I do run with PVP groups - popping acid spray, ice comet, and caltrops at enemy blobs (I'm talking about you Blue) might get the Valk comet to proc once in a while and make a significant difference to my effectiveness against Zergs. Anyone thing this is misguided and it doesn't have a place in that particular setup anyway?

NBrookus · March 2016

I've tanked it with DPSers both pulling 14-15k (so they say, and I've run other dungeons with them and it seems about right) and the healer going straight heals, and at that rate it's a just barely a completion with me standing on a tiny rock at the end.

Is it just the last boss you are failing on? And are you dying or just can't DPS him down fast enough?

ryanborror · March 2016

I don't think Skoria will be useful for your build. As far as completing the dungeon just to do it you can do it at a lower level. Last time I did it it was 2 magic Templars and 2 magic sorcs. No tank just burned through everything as quickly as possible. Sustained dps is particularly hard on the last fight due to having to move around a lot. There are a lot of guides out there.

Shader_Shibes · March 2016

Your gear is fine, perfect really. 5x hundings and rest nmg is ideal. Out of curiosity, how many cp's and where in particular do you have problems in vCoA?

Your skill set up could do with some changes though. Ideally you want DW/Bow. DW bar should be something like this:

Surprise Attack
Steel Tornado (change to rending slashes on single target)
Killers Blade
Camo/Evil Hunter
Quick Cloak/Rearming Trap (kinda a flex spot, Rearming for single target, quick cloak when in AoE spamming Steel Tornado).
Ulti - Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow bar:

Poison Injection
Scorched Earth
Razor Caltrops if you have, but only use if no one else in group uses it.
Siphoning Attacks
Relentless Focus
Ulti - Ice comet/Veil

DRXHarbinger · March 2016

Lewandowsky wrote: »

I seem to be totally incapable. I've tried with PUG groups and failed, no surprise there really, but with group finder of varied levels and all-VR16 from alliance areas equally. I've run with guildmates, all VR16. I've vowed I will never run it again probably 5x, tried about 20. One thing that makes it more painful is I do have impenetrable Valkyn Skoria shoulders, and I actually prefer PVP. Could be quite useful. If, that is, I ever even complete the run and have the 1/30 shot at the helm.

Of course I have noticed the common feature in all my failures is, well, me. Overall, if I measure my dps selectively and in well formed tight groups I can get 30k dps, but in sustained boss fights 10-13k is more consistent. Which I thought was respectable - I know some people can get 30k sustained like particularly sorcs, but I thought that was the exception. In the groups no has ever really been like "Hey dude you're the problem," the feeling ends up being about equally sometimes tank gets blamed sometimes dps rarely heals.

I'm VR16. My setup is sharpened 2H with surprise attack, rally, ambush, executioner, and bone shield. Also sharpened bow with poison injection, resolving vigor, acid spray, camo hunter, and snipe. Ultimate when I try this is typically ice comet. For stat points 12 in health and 52 in stamina. With stam/health food buff weapon damage is 2752, weapon critical 53.8%, max stam 33722 (regen 801), health 18180 (214). I am a vamp, and have a legendary VR16 flame resist enchant on 1 jewelry. Gear is 3 piece agility jewelry robust, and armor is all legendary, 5 piece Hundings and 3 piece Night Mother's. Heavy chest and light belt because I have all the undaunted enchants. Armor is all infused with stamina enchants. On weapons I have diseased enchants.

What is it going to take? 300k in gold for a total gear rebuild that someone particularly recommends for a sneaky type NB dps preference? And then I'll probably have to just abandon all the gear anyway because I prefer gank-style PVP? Is it hopeless and I need to go make a sorc which will be about ready when the game eventually dies? I need direction.

OP ignoring all the comments above, what part of COA are you struggling with? Skoria or Ash Titan? If console XB EU I can run you through it no probs, it's easy, can be done without a healer, 3 sorcs can burn down the Ash Titan in under a few mins and Skoria is too easy now. not rubbing it in or anything but if you're in groups using a tank, a healer and just 2 DPS COA can end up taking too long and you'll wipe everytime.

redspecter23 · March 2016

This dungeon is rough on a stamina NB vampire. No better way to put it. That's a super squishy combination in there. That being said, it's still doable. Your dps if in the 12k range should be fine. If you're set on making this dungeon a goal and your survivibility is the issue consider swapping out of vamp for a while or perhaps consider a magicka spec that would allow for much more mitigation. If you're surviving then the issue may lie with the rest of the group. Join a solid PvE guild and see if that helps.

I think if you can help us by explaining where the problem is, that would help.

Are you dying too much?
Which boss fight is causing the trouble?
Is overall group damage too low?

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

You really dont need high dps for the last boss, especially if you do it normal mode (which has the same drop chance for the helmet).

Dont stand near the lava on the platforms, if you stand close to the edge lava will hit you.
Dodge his attack when he charges it, just roll when he does the animation and continue dps.
Nuke his shield after he breaks the platform and AOE the adds down, its helpful if DKs drop a banner here.

Its helpful if the tank keeps the minor maim on the boss for 15% dmg reduction.
And during the normal phase the healer should be able to produce at least 8-10k dps.

With enough dps you can actually kill him before he destroys the second platform but that isnt necessary.

code65536 · March 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

if you're in groups using a tank, a healer and just 2 DPS COA can end up taking too long and you'll wipe everytime.

ROTFL. With tank, healer, and 2x DPS, we can easily kill him before the third platform breaks. Usually before the second platform breaks. With 3 sorcs and a tank, which for some reason you seem to think is required, it'll be overkill: he's dead before the first platform breaks.

If you have two DPS that can each pull a sustained 15K+ single-target DPS on a boss fight, you should be fine and shouldn't be an issue killing him in three platforms. Going beyond that--higher DPS or three overloading sorcs--is overkill and unnecessary.

The key words are sustained and single-target. Some who measure DPS will see big spikes in trash pulls or in short, bursty fights and not realize that those numbers are meaningless. Go to vet Spindle with a healer and a tank. Tank holds boss aggro, healer spams healing springs, and the DPS solos the boss. That's your sustained single-target DPS.

And even with mediocre DPS, you can still complete Skoria without hard mode. Or, if you really want to do hard mode, you can stand on that tiny rock and range down the boss while the tank kites him around on the landbridges.

As for your build...

Vampirism is useless in PvE. And even in PvP, it's as much a liability as it is a boon (I love casting my Dawnbreaker whenever I hear the sound of bats in PvP). You can complete vCoA as a vamp, but it does make it harder and doesn't help you in any way.
Fire resistance enchantment is a waste of a precious jewelry enchantment slot. At VR16, a gold Weapon/Spell Damage enchantment is 174 Damage. A DPS should be running 3x Damage enchants. If you need sustain, try to get that from gear bonuses instead because there is a huge jump in potency from VR14 to VR16 for gold Damage jewelry enchants whereas all other jewelry enchants are almost the same in stats between VR14 and VR16. So whenever possible, get your Damage from jewelry enchants and sustain from armor bonuses.
Your crit chance is way too low, esp. for a Nightblade (you have an innate 10% bonus to crit damage, so you benefit more than other classes from high crit chance). Your gear should be all Divines, and you need to use the Thief mundus stone. Crit is extremely important in PvE (not so much in PvP, though).

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2016

check youtube, there is a video of a stamina NB soloing V16 City of Ash.

If you play with a team, then don't allow boss to break middle platform before breaking others, otherwise all group will require to fight on same platform with boss and people that don't pay attention will die.

Get someone (who is not a vampire

) to tank boss on one of the platform while everyone else is just DPSing like it is going out of fashion and just don't get hit by all the flying spells (It is not that hard, as you can see boss prepare for every shot like a mile away).

Good luck

code65536 · March 2016

Valera Progib wrote: »

check youtube, there is a video of a stamina NB soloing V16 City of Ash.

Where? I've watched shunchan's video of him soloing vCoA, but he's a magblade, not a stamblade. I honestly do not believe it's even possible for a stamblade to solo vCoA.

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

Ah, you're a vamp, that explains a lot..

Lewandowsky · March 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how many cp's and where in particular do you have problems in vCoA?

I've about 300 CP. In the Warrior they're in The Lady divided amongst Elemental Defender Thick Skinned and Hardy; in the Mage they're in the Ritual 2:1:1 Mighty, piercing and precise; and Thief in the tower mostly in Warlord just a few in magician.

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think if you can help us by explaining where the problem is, that would help.

Are you dying too much?
Which boss fight is causing the trouble?
Is overall group damage too low?

I do seem to be dying quite a bit, but on many runs less than the other DPS, I'm not consistently the most squishy one. When I ran this yesterday with 2 different groups, each at VR16, we stalled at the fire maw each time and this does happen often. The adds end up becoming overwhelming, even if DPS tries to clear them before turning back to boss. The Titan has also been a problem. Often we run through those 3 brothers and The Legion boss super quick and I think "This time we've definitely got it," yesterday we had The Legion down before she called her second group of adds but still stalled at Fire Maw. The Fire Maw we tried a method where 4 members stood at 4 corners of fire maw and tried to just burn him hard ignoring the adds for a few trials, and were able to get him down to about 20% but couldn't finish him. Not sure if that tells you dps for group is too low or if that's kinda normal. Valkyn Skoria I've only had maybe 7 cracks at, never got real far with him.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Your skill set up could do with some changes though. Ideally you want DW/Bow. DW bar should be something like this:

Surprise Attack
Steel Tornado (change to rending slashes on single target)
Killers Blade
Camo/Evil Hunter
Quick Cloak/Rearming Trap (kinda a flex spot, Rearming for single target, quick cloak when in AoE spamming Steel Tornado).
Ulti - Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow bar:

Poison Injection
Scorched Earth
Razor Caltrops if you have, but only use if no one else in group uses it.
Siphoning Attacks
Relentless Focus
Ulti - Ice comet/Veil

Any other opinions on whether this should be more effective here than the bars I described? I groan a bit at the idea of starting DW leveling, with my bow, 2H, and healing staff already at 50, but perhaps it would be useful to try it out.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

[quote="Lewandowsky;250060"
If console XB EU I can run you through it no probs

NA PC server

ryanborror wrote: »

I don't think Skoria will be useful for your build.

Can anyone else offer an opinion on this? For the style I would prefer to play, ignoring vCOA, if I like to mostly solo play PVP and like 1v1, where burst damage needs to be huge, and sometime run with a zerg where I can get some DOTs running (caltrops, acid spray, poison injection, ice comet), would running Skoria and giving up 2 pieces night mother's even be worth my time, to get me some extra anti-zerg effectiveness?

If it's thought it's not useful I should probably just throw in the towel rather than trying whole new builds for this. If it would be likely to be useful it seems like giving up vamp for a time might be worth a new try, with or without new skill bars.

Shader_Shibes · March 2016

Skoria is not viable right now, maybe in next patch idk. Vamp is nice for pvp, but really has no place in pve, unless you rp

Best set up is high crit, dual daggers, all medium armour, all precise and Thief or Shadow mundus.

code65536 · March 2016

For the Fire Maw, kill the adds as they spawn and ignore the boss until the adds are down. They don't spawn infinitely--you just have to be patient. This is where you really want to have DW, for Steel Tornado, since all your other stamina AoE options suck. Dawnbreaker's also nice if you get a bunch of adds clustered together. The hardest part about this fight is the need for constant movement during the ground pounds and the overall stress on the healer.

Some players might suggest other cheesy methods, like standing on the pillar or tanking him in this corner or that. Ignore all that rubbish. Those "tricks" don't really work that well and are often messier than doing it the normal way. If you're in a group with very good DPS, though, you can ignore everything and just stack-and-burn him in 15-25 seconds, which is obviously the easiest and preferred way of doing it. Stack-and-burn and the normal way are the only two ways I ever do this fight--don't mess with any other method.

The main problem with any ignore-the-adds method is that the Fire Maw gains a huge damage shield when he reaches around 20-30% health. However, the shield spawns with quite a bit of a delay, and if your burn is fast enough, he will die before the shield appears. If you do not kill him before that shield appears, though, then you're basically screwed because it takes a while to take that shield down, and since you've been ignoring the adds, they will overrun you. This is the main benchmark of success for burn strats: if you can kill him before the shield goes up, and this is why a lot of ignore-the-adds strategies will fail around that 20-30% mark because that's when the shield comes up and your foolish choice of strategy comes to bite you.

For the Ash Titan, the hardest part is the fire rain. Especially if you're a vampire. Especially if you're a stamina vampire who can't effectively spam Harness Magicka. Seriously, ditch that vampirism. It's already pretty tough for a healer for heal through this fight; you're just making it harder for them. And although you can't Harness as effectively as a magicka user, I'd still recommend it since you're a vampire. Anyway, if the tank can handle it, have him kite the atronachs around while the DPS works on the boss. Otherwise, if the tank is under too much pressure, kill the atronachs as they spawn.

For Skoria, as long as you're good about avoiding damage, you should be fine. Always be moving. Watch those fire lines. Dodge (or block) his big knockback-and-stun fireballs. Break free of those petrifies as soon as you can. Yes, it's harder for melee players than for ranged players, but with enough practice, you can avoid most of the damage in that fight, and it really isn't that bad once you've had the practice. But it does require constant movement, good situational awareness, and fast reflexes.

Actually, that's true for most of vCoA. The times I've taken newbies through vCoA, the biggest hurdle wasn't whether they could do enough damage--the biggest problem was them eating too much avoidable damage. Be quick on your feet, and having an awesome healer that can quickly save you from the mistakes that you do make is nice, too.

eliisra · March 2016

code65536 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

if you're in groups using a tank, a healer and just 2 DPS COA can end up taking too long and you'll wipe everytime.

ROTFL. With tank, healer, and 2x DPS, we can easily kill him before the third platform breaks. Usually before the second platform breaks. With 3 sorcs and a tank, which for some reason you seem to think is required, it'll be overkill: he's dead before the first platform breaks.

If you have two DPS that can each pull a sustained 15K+ single-target DPS on a boss fight, you should be fine and shouldn't be an issue killing him in three platforms. Going beyond that--higher DPS or three overloading sorcs--is overkill and unnecessary.

Agreed, no need for some elite Overload sorc stack just for Skoria.

You dont even need minimum +2 dps'ers pushing 15k, even if it's nice because allows mistakes. But tank and healer dmg put together, even if traditionally built, should still contribute with at least 10k. Way more if they're built for some off-dmg.

Only reason groups and especially pugs fails with only "normal" dmg is because one guy(or more)lacks awareness and keeps dying to platforms breaking and boss doing his aimed attack. That's why they cant do it in time. They loose to much dmg when having to revive over and over

Elijah_Crow · March 2016

Support skills like slotting Barrier and such go a long way in this dungeon. I would however recommend Molag Kena shoulders and Blood Spawn helm for your build over Skoria. I run with a group which hit a wall in this dungeon for a short time, but after learning it well it's a quick run now.

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

check youtube, there is a video of a stamina NB soloing V16 City of Ash.

Where? I've watched shunchan's video of him soloing vCoA, but he's a magblade, not a stamblade. I honestly do not believe it's even possible for a stamblade to solo vCoA.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MsvFD4C2Hyw

I am at work, can't see it, but I think it is stam NB

Shader_Shibes · March 2016

Valera Progib wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

check youtube, there is a video of a stamina NB soloing V16 City of Ash.

Where? I've watched shunchan's video of him soloing vCoA, but he's a magblade, not a stamblade. I honestly do not believe it's even possible for a stamblade to solo vCoA.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MsvFD4C2Hyw

I am at work, can't see it, but I think it is stam NB

Pre roll dodge nerf.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but i doubt a stam nb could do it now, even at v16.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

Valera Progib wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

check youtube, there is a video of a stamina NB soloing V16 City of Ash.

Where? I've watched shunchan's video of him soloing vCoA, but he's a magblade, not a stamblade. I honestly do not believe it's even possible for a stamblade to solo vCoA.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MsvFD4C2Hyw

I am at work, can't see it, but I think it is stam NB

That video was from before the dodge roll nerf. That guy would be out of stam and RIP in 30 seconds if he tried that today.

Autolycus · March 2016

@Lewandowsky If you're still looking for help let me know. I sent you a message with details on how to contact me in-game. My guild will help you get your clear.

ryanborror · March 2016

@Lewandowsky Is there a particular part of the dungeon that you have trouble with?

Lewandowsky · March 2016

Thanks everyone, this was a useful discussion. I initially figured that if the helm isn't going to be that useful I would just forget the whole thing rather than rebuild - but now it's buried itself in my brain and I feel compelled to keep trying.

Seems the most useful thing I could do is cure vamp and switch that fire resist glyph to weapon damage to increase output. I've done that and will try running without being a vamp in PVP for a while too, see how it feels.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Your skill set up could do with some changes though. Ideally you want DW/Bow. DW bar should be something like this:

Surprise Attack
Steel Tornado (change to rending slashes on single target)
Killers Blade
Camo/Evil Hunter
Quick Cloak/Rearming Trap (kinda a flex spot, Rearming for single target, quick cloak when in AoE spamming Steel Tornado).
Ulti - Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow bar:

Poison Injection
Scorched Earth
Razor Caltrops if you have, but only use if no one else in group uses it.
Siphoning Attacks
Relentless Focus
Ulti - Ice comet/Veil

I am making at least some of these changes too, will switch acid spray for scorched earth to add a longer DOT to bosses, don't like the killer's blade though since I'm stam based. On the bow bar I will try using siphoning attacks and with it relentless focus, switch camo hunter to the 2H, I think you're right that might boost my dps.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Best set up is high crit, dual daggers, all medium armour, all precise and Thief or Shadow mundus.

I'm probably going to keep the heavy chest and light belt; switching for medium would give me higher crit but would cost me 4% of each base stat due to losing some of the undaunted passives, might come out even or a loss of dps due to stam loss if I switched. For PVE I probably will start switching Mundus from warrior to Thief.

ryanborror wrote: »

@Lewandowsky Is there a particular part of the dungeon that you have trouble with?

Mostly ash titan and fire maw.

Autolycus wrote: »

@Lewandowsky If you're still looking for help let me know. I sent you a message with details on how to contact me in-game. My guild will help you get your clear.

Thanks I might well contact you in a while. I want to get some of these new skills I'm going to try leveled up and morphed and then start taking some more cracks at this. I appreciate the offer.

Saint314Louis1985 · March 2016

For fire maw what my groups usually do is kill the adds until the boss is 50% then just burn down the boss. You need good dps for this. You can also ignore all adds and just dps the crap out of the boss but you need really good dps for that.

For the ash titan its pretty much just stay separated and dps boss while making sure to stay out of the red. When the atronachs spawn your tank (or healer if no tank) need to keep them busy while the dps burns boss.

the dungeon seems to go better with 3 dps and 1 tank or healer.

puffy99 · March 2016

Fire Maw is a pain in the ass when there is not enough DPS especially as the healer or you have a Vamp running around (Sorcs excluded)

Stand on the pillar and the tank tanks him at the edge by the gate opening and heal thru the ground and pound and you are done. Everyone else hits him with AOE. There is no reason to have multiple wipes when you can just do that.

VSkoria from what I have seen is pretty much a DPS check - even if someone goes down from a one hit from the spells ( I did last time I ran it) you should still be able to get him/her by the 3rd pillar with enough DPS.

UrQuan · March 2016

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm far from an expert on this dungeon. I've only attempted it a handful of times, and only completed it at VR16 twice I believe. Maybe 3 times.

puffy99 wrote: »

Fire Maw is a pain in the ass when there is not enough DPS especially as the healer or you have a Vamp running around (Sorcs excluded)

Stand on the pillar and the tank tanks him at the edge by the gate opening and heal thru the ground and pound and you are done. Everyone else hits him with AOE. There is no reason to have multiple wipes when you can just do that.

Every time I've tried that approach it hasn't worked. Most often because it seems to be super inconsistent about when he will and won't reset, and sometimes for other reasons. Each time I've been in a group where we were trying that, we went through multiple failed attempts before just going out and fighting him in the middle of the room. That's always been successful in the groups I've done the dungeon in, although it has usually taken a few attempts.

puffy99 wrote: »

VSkoria from what I have seen is pretty much a DPS check - even if someone goes down from a one hit from the spells ( I did last time I ran it) you should still be able to get him/her by the 3rd pillar with enough DPS.

Seems to be. I've found in this fight that Harness Magicka can really do a great job of keeping you alive through lava and stuff.

Personally I think I'd consider the Ash Titan to be the toughest fight in this dungeon. So much unavoidable damage in that fight that requires burst healing unless everyone's rocking some good damage shields.