Class Identity Crisis

NobleNerd · December 2015

More and more this whole stamina/magicka based abilities on every single class is causing a huge identity crisis for the classes!

Instead of going deeper and deeper into the abyss of every single class playing so similar to every single class.... let's pull out of it by removing any resource scaling on any ability. Let's give each class it's own identity and have physical damage/spellpower be achieved through other options (i.e enchanting, potions, set bonuses, etc).

#BringBackClassIdentity

Tamanous · December 2015

I tend to find even similar builds between classes play quite differently.

I currently have a stam NB and DK both using bow and 2h. I did this to test how similar they play. They do not play the same way at all. This largely due to their differences in passives and core class abilities. A stam DK archer relies heavily on Molten Weapons which means they want to use heavy attacks as much as possible. They tend to use very little magicka based abilities and fewer core class abilities over NB as well.

I was rather shocked how differently they played and what overall strategy evolves through time played.

I am not sure I am entirely sold on the hard line division on magicka and stam morphs but it certainly is a hell of a lot better than it was before.

NobleNerd · December 2015

Many of the classes do play slightly different even when using the same weapons. There just seems to be this ever increasing concern that class identity is becoming less and less. Maybe it will work better the direction they are going because ES is limited on adding more classes and races (which will become a hot topic now that we are pushing 2 years).

PainfulFAFA · December 2015

Passives and Ultimates are what gives each class an identity imo.

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Copy and pasting post from another thread isn't gonna help. ZOS just needs to give 2 or 3 class skill a option for the skill to be magicka or stamina. Why even bother give the option for 2 morphs if there both magicka?

NobleNerd · December 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Copy and pasting post from another thread isn't gonna help. ZOS just needs to give 2 or 3 class skill a option for the skill to be magicka or stamina. Why even bother give the option for 2 morphs if there both magicka?

I made a topic out of my post because I wanted to address the concern more. The more I have thought on the direction each class is going and how, no matter what class you are playing, in pvp most only use the same abilities (wrecking blow, steel tornado, etc). If it wasn't for the class icon on the health bar sometimes I couldn't tell you which class it was.

edorfeus · December 2015

removal of soft caps is the reason of all the bad things this games suffers at the moment.
they should never have done it.

NobleNerd · December 2015

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Passives and Ultimates are what gives each class an identity imo.

Passives I can see, but there are many great ultimates used by many that are not in the class lines: Shooting Star, Bat Swarm, Dawnbreaker, etc.

mrowmrif2 · January 2016

Clearly a console player that doesnt know how it was on PC for all of 2014 before they introduced resource scaling in march 2015 patch. Huge pros and cons. Pro: do whatever you want and not worry about min/max. Con: no specialization, no min/max...

As a competitive MMO you need SOMETHING to set people apart and have choices that add complexity, power and utility. Taking away atteibute scaling essentially minimizes gearand attributes as value-added progression. I wholly disagree with your direction here and (for once!) totally applaud ZOS's decision to move the game in that direction. It has fueled huge community discussion around tactics, builds and roles. I dont think the scaling adds class identity crisis; if anything, it adds player skill and class choice issues, which arent a bad thing.

Short answer: they are never going to go back to the way it was. It is way better now. Take it from someone who has been around since beta.

mrowmrif2 · January 2016

edorfeus wrote: »

removal of soft caps is the reason of all the bad things this games suffers at the moment.
they should never have done it.

Oh idk, it hamstrung the vertical progression... At a certain point gear becomes diminishing returns/unimportant with soft caps, which reduces the need for the hamster wheel grind for repeating content like trials and vet dungeons. Adding in the CP system required them to remove those soft caps to allow that vertical progression to continue... Sadly they then had to cap CP because they didnt realize how powerful people would be. If the CP cap was in place from the start or if it was a broader system with a much slower progression i think you would see a very different state of things.

NobleNerd · January 2016

mrowmrif2 wrote: »

Short answer: they are never going to go back to the way it was. It is way better now. Take it from someone who has been around since beta.

I have also been here on PC since early beta/alpha. As the game has progressed I am seeing more of every class playing like every other class with maybe 1 or 2 actual class abilities mixed in. I am not seeing a definitive class distinction in game play, especially in PvP.

I only suggest the resource idea as, just that an idea. I am sure there are many options outside of that (one) idea to achieve a better class distinction and play in the game.

Maybe try offering an idea of your own instead of waving the beta epeen like it is some badge of great wisdom!

Pepper8Jack · January 2016

I think the identity crisis isn't quite where you say it is...

My magicka sorc and stam sorc play quite differently.
My magicka templar and stam templar play quite differently.
My stam sorcerer, stam templar, and stam dk all play pretty much identically.

Stam classes are still struggling to have an identity outside of the 2h tree, more useful class based stam morphs would remedy this issue.

NobleNerd · January 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I think the identity crisis isn't quite where you say it is...

My magicka sorc and stam sorc play quite differently.
My magicka templar and stam templar play quite differently.
My stam sorcerer, stam templar, and stam dk all play pretty much identically.

Stam classes are still struggling to have an identity outside of the 2h tree, more useful class based stam morphs would remedy this issue.

I am not talking about between the same classes just stam or magicka builds. I am saying that many classes use non-class abilities as their main focus and a nb stam build plays very similar to a dk stam, etc.... wrecking blow wrecking blow.

Pepper8Jack · February 2016

NobleNerd wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I think the identity crisis isn't quite where you say it is...

My magicka sorc and stam sorc play quite differently.
My magicka templar and stam templar play quite differently.
My stam sorcerer, stam templar, and stam dk all play pretty much identically.

Stam classes are still struggling to have an identity outside of the 2h tree, more useful class based stam morphs would remedy this issue.

I am not talking about between the same classes just stam or magicka builds. I am saying that many classes use non-class abilities as their main focus and a nb stam build plays very similar to a dk stam, etc.... wrecking blow wrecking blow.

I'm confused if you're agreeing with me or not...

Miwerton · February 2016

Well fact is that there is wery little to choose from as a stam Character, fighers guild only have Hunter as a usefull option Flawless dawnbreaker is only for weapon dam buff, trap beast isnt that truly usefull, silver bolt is only ever usefull in the start of the game and some instances in pvp, circle costs a huge chunk of stamina and not longlived or that good ( perhaps as a failsafe if doing Trial hardmodes, not AA obv) .
And Boneshield have i only ever used against the mantikora in Sanctum in stacking phase.

As magicka you have more help from mages guild than a stam have from fighters guild, entropy provides major spell dam, inner light provides more magicka or radiant if main focus is pvp, and meteor of course, that does more damage as a magicka compared to a stamina, since most ultis still scale of spell pen.

But yeah all in all you use either dual wield with blood craze and rapid strikes (blinding flurry is useless since bosses are immune to off balance) and class ability, if dk unstable flame, maybe burning breath, nb suprise attack, temp bitting jabs, sorc well there is none

, and almost same if with 2handed and WB.

And all is mostly due to the fact the devs live in a seperate reality from the people playing the game.

Acsvf · February 2016

NobleNerd wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I think the identity crisis isn't quite where you say it is...

My magicka sorc and stam sorc play quite differently.
My magicka templar and stam templar play quite differently.
My stam sorcerer, stam templar, and stam dk all play pretty much identically.

Stam classes are still struggling to have an identity outside of the 2h tree, more useful class based stam morphs would remedy this issue.

I am not talking about between the same classes just stam or magicka builds. I am saying that many classes use non-class abilities as their main focus and a nb stam build plays very similar to a dk stam, etc.... wrecking blow wrecking blow.

That's the case with stamina, because the stam weapons have powerful abilities and are pretty much necessary in a stamina build.
Not so much for magicka though.

Praeficere · February 2016

Support class diversity, not class hybridisation.