Group finder.. is it always VR16? tad confused on how its suposed to be working or is it a bug?

old_mufasa · December 2015

A friend and myself both level 16 no non of us have any vet rank on the xbox joined/host 4 different games each one said it was set to VR16 though we qued up for regular. In 3 of the 4 runs there were no VR players at all and in one match it was two level 16's a 20 and 21 no VR's but it still said it was VR16.

Does it always say it VR16? We were unable to clear any dungeon today.. I spent thousands in repairs and wasted almost 4 hours never to beat any of the dungeons. I have not played since beta and these dungeons seemed 100 times harder.. dps seems so low tanks could keep threat so I don't think it was my dps as I was pulling off at one point a level 48... but still even small spiders were taking a huge effort to kill.

Just to see if it was some odd bug both my friend and manually joined one the dungeons and as soon as we got it we got the message that it was scaling us to VR16....

Also I both of us have no VR ranks so when we joined by are selfs why is it saying its set to VR16?

After reading the forums I got even more confused as sme were saying its always vr16 but scales but other were saying that it scales to party lead.... as I was party lead and we had no VR players at all in party I don't understand why its scaling to VR16.. hell we had 4 sub 25's no VR in are party and it stilled scaled to VR16... this is making grouping unfun and a pain...

Can anyone shed some light on the issue or explane it better...

Magdalina · December 2015

Any time you use the group finder it sets the dungeon to vet 16 and scales all your group to v16 as well. I guesss it was the easiest way to do it considering it ends up grouping people of different levels who might not even get loot/xp otherwise.

It shouldn't be (much) harder than your average level 16 dungeon because battle leveling gives pretty significant bonuses for low level characters. if you're just a returning level 16 player you're probably still learning though, so perhaps look at it as an opportunity to learn more?;) Let me know if you have any specific questions about skills/armor setup/boss mechanics etc.

If you do not use group finder the dungeon will still scale to groupleader level. But keep in mind that if you're more than 5 levels higher than the mobs are you won't get any loot nor exp, so for example if your groupleader is level 10 while you're lvl 16, the dungeon will be lvl 10(unless you used groupfinder) and you won't get any experience(other than from the quest) nor loot from it.

old_mufasa · December 2015

Why is the dungeon scaling to VR16 when we manually joined the dungeon.. we didn't use group finder and it was VR16?

I don't think its my issue as tanks cant hold agro.. then I keep getting groups that people que all 3 roles.. then just dps.. as I do not think a sorc with a destroy staff can heal or tank effectively. So a lot of it is *** players.. but this content is supposed to be pug able? or maybe its just crap xbox players as the last I played it was on PC and seemed more balanced then this. I'm a vet PC mmo player, did 40 man raids in wow, to hard modes never had this type of issue in content before.

other issues with scaleing is getting one shot a lot. Such as banshed cells 1st boss or mini boss, don't even have time to roll around corner to los the boss, that means the healer has have god reflexs to try to heal.. as I took 16000 damage in 2 ticks...

At level 16 I do not have the passives to off set that type of damage out put.. I started to not use any AOE kills do to being a agro magnet...

Another massive gripe I have are players tanking with 2 handers or duel wielding.. these were lower level so there is no way they had the undaunted tuant yet... in fact the only person we had that had sword and board was our healer my brother who was having to use to try to peal groups off me then swaping back to heal.

Magdalina · December 2015

If you didn't use groupfinder(it's enough if even 1 person was found through it) and were indeed all lvl 16-ish but the dungeon was veteran 16...well that doesn't make much sense, not sure what to say. Either it bugged or you're perhaps confusing something?

And it sounds like you're just having bad luck with PUGs. It'll probably get better as you level up since at lvl 16-ish people are just beginning to learn their class/role/even the concept of role usually. You might want to wait til you level some(not losing anything since dungeons scale) and/or make friends/join a guild so you can run with people that you can be sure know what they're doing.

If it's of any help, once you learn how to play and start running with people who also know that, most content is faceroll easy except maybe one-two dungeons. I can't give any more specific advice since I don't remember most non-vet dungeons unfortunately, but hope this helps some.

gbsteve · December 2015

Before the dungeon scale update, I remember clearing dungeons with PUG's on my first run to VR with no problem. The only time I've had luck with a scaled dungeon is with a couple of VR16s and a couple of lower VR's.....but at the cost of armor repairs and a lot of soul gems.

Dungeon runs aren't really fun anymore for anyone other than high VR now. I usually just scale down dungeons to burn through them for the daily undaunted pledge but don't get much in the way of xp, just the reward.

I'm starting a new DK and I fully expect not to get much success with dungeon runs at all until VR.

pala_the4th · December 2015

I am VR 9, we had two VR16s, and a VR2. Tried the darkshade caverns everything was VR16. This gives me, a VR9, a really hard time in killing all the buggers. The bosses were transmuted somethings and people were bored after a while and I had to use my repair kits.
The result: the group disbanded.
Dungeons are not fun anymore and don't tell me it scales because I am pretty sure the monsters were VR16 to the full of their ability because even the pawns were so hard to kill.

Heindrich · December 2015

If you manually form a group, the dungeon is spawned at the level of the group leader and players do not get scaled.

If you use group finder, everyone gets scaled to VR16, but if you are very low level, chances are you got no food, no potions, crap gear, lack critical skills and lack personal experience. i.e. you are gonna struggle despite battle leveling. Also encase you aren't aware, there's a pretty big difference in difficulty between (normal) group dungeons and veteran dungeons.

pala_the4th · December 2015

I have all you said, top level food, crafted set gear, very good personal experience, and all the things that make me good at killing stuff both in PVE and in Cyrodill, and the other people were great also, one of them is almost always in Cyrodill. It still took too much time to kill the boss and the buggers along with dying plenty. Do we need at least VR16 and at least 500 champion points to have fun in the dungeons? We should not. Its just bad design.
In addition, does the system increase our magicka to lvl 16? Does it increase our health and armor to VR16? How about our weapons and DPS? We are going at the monsters with what we already have and it is no fun anymore.

Magdalina · December 2015

pala_the4th wrote: »

I have all you said, top level food, crafted set gear, very good personal experience, and all the things that make me good at killing stuff both in PVE and in Cyrodill, and the other people were great also, one of them is almost always in Cyrodill. It still took too much time to kill the boss and the buggers along with dying plenty. Do we need at least VR16 and at least 500 champion points to have fun in the dungeons? We should not. Its just bad design.
In addition, does the system increase our magicka to lvl 16? Does it increase our health and armor to VR16? How about our weapons and DPS? We are going at the monsters with what we already have and it is no fun anymore.

Yes it does if you use groupfinder. It's actually kind of OP, it seems to buff your stats OVER what you'd normally have at v16 to compensate for your "weakness", my vet 12 templar was getting some damn good stats from battle leveling - and she shouldn't have been benefitting that much even since she was kinda close to v16 already. You get more armor, base stats(my templar had like 30k health...she has like 20 usually), more spell/wep damage etc etc.
If you don't use groupfinder, it'll scale to the level of the groupleader and you may have issues if groupleader is v16 and everyone else is lower, however you can simply make one of the lower levels groupleader(you have to do this outside of the dungeon, you obviously can't just decide to downscale in the middle of it) and the place will scale down to his/her level.

And no, in no way you need to be v16 with 500 champ points to have fun in dungeons. As v16 with 500 CP you can actually pretty much solo them;)

old_mufasa · January 2016

"If you don't use groupfinder, it'll scale to the level of the groupleader and you may have issues if groupleader is v16 and everyone else is lower,"

Wrong its not scaling to group leader its staying at VR16.. not sure how i need to write it... its scaling no matter what at least on the xbpx to VR16, 2 of us no group finder level 18 went in.. as soon as we went in it said that it was scaling to VR16 and we got a HP/MANA/STAM buff... so it broken or its scaling everything now...

" It's actually kind of OP, it seems to buff your stats OVER what you'd normally have at v16 to compensate for your "weakness", " Not sure what game your playing but pre 20's DPS is very very weak.. it isn't till the 25 to 30 range when people have more passives that I see mobs die at a much faster rate then the 10-25 level range.

Also tanks at low level..well the lack of them... just makes group out right suck in the teens.. with only tanks only having 1 singe target tuant at that level.. then with the mobs with such inflated hit points and low dps of teen level range make low level group not fun.. this is a big thing as new players 1st look at dungeons... when they are a imbalanced mess it going to turn them off of the game.