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[Video] I need f̶e̶m̶i̶n̶i̶s̶m̶ Shield Breaker because...

  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    There is now a hard counter to shield-stacking and Sorcs act like the sky is falling.

    For months I heard sorcs argue that shields are fine, because "any class can shield stack, don't pay any attention to Hardened Ward lol"

    Well, Shieldbreaker can hit any shields, don't pay any attention to Hardened Ward lol.

    Yes, because it's sets a bad precedent. you don't want this kinda crap in the game. I don't know what class you play. but imagine a set the completely countered your classes main strength with little effort or thought required, it would suck and it does suck.

    I've said many times. taking out a sorc with superior DPS and excellent timing, is skill. This set on the other hand is is lack of it. it's a bad set to add to the game pure and simple.
    Invictus
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Btw are jabs still bugged so the 140% extra dmg don´t apply on shields?
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

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  • Zorgon_The_Revenged
    Zorgon_The_Revenged
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    well if you would have eaten some of the sorcs crystal frag procs then.......well, I won't be wearing shield breaker.

    How many more videos of sorcs standing still just casting shields will there be?
    Edited by Zorgon_The_Revenged on September 30, 2015 8:10PM
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Derra wrote: »
    Btw are jabs still bugged so the 140% extra dmg don´t apply on shields?

    This guys asking the right questions ;)
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  • k2blader
    k2blader
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    Not sure what feminism has to do with it but..

    If I saw that correctly the sorc's Hardened Ward is 15k. That is.. larger than most.

    Some people will watch this and think every sorc has that.

    Puts into perspective the amount of skill needed for less endowed sorcs.


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  • Kova
    Kova
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    k2blader wrote: »
    Not sure what feminism has to do with it but..

    If I saw that correctly the sorc's Hardened Ward is 15k. That is.. larger than most.

    Some people will watch this and think every sorc has that.

    Puts into perspective the amount of skill needed for less endowed sorcs.


    My hardened ward is 8k. His UI displays total health over health lost.
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  •  Jules
    Jules
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    This video is a pretty excellent representation of what's so frustrating about sorcs. It never really made much sense to me why a self-described 'glass cannon' class has the strongest shield in the game, which also happens to scale off of magicka. What's so glass cannon about a 20-30k shield? Idk, I just can't see the downside to sorc at all when you can be at range, stack shields to double your health and escape at whim when you're threatened.

    Sorcs have:

    1) Mobility
    2) Tankiness
    3) Damage


    And no other class has all three. NBs lack the tankiness and DK's & Temps lack mobility. Just totally nonsensical.
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  • Soulac
    Soulac
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    Jules wrote: »
    This video is a pretty excellent representation of what's so frustrating about sorcs. It never really made much sense to me why a self-described 'glass cannon' class has the strongest shield in the game, which also happens to scale off of magicka. What's so glass cannon about a 20-30k shield? Idk, I just can't see the downside to sorc at all when you can be at range, stack shields to double your health and escape at whim when you're threatened.

    Sorcs have:

    1) Mobility
    2) Tankiness
    3) Damage


    And no other class has all three. NBs lack the tankiness and DK's & Temps lack mobility. Just totally nonsensical.

    I connect tanking with the ability to avoid getting hitt / taking damage.
    A cloaking nightblade will avoid a lot of damage, but unlike shields it can be negated completely and isn't available for everyone.
    Healing Ward is worse than hardened ward, which is available for anyone running a staff.
    Shield breaker is a viable counter, but it doesn't remove shields, it hits the health directly with a fixed amount.
    Counters to cloak removes it completely and it also disappears once you start attacking. Shields stay until they're destroyed.

    Anyway, just saying that NB got dmg, escape and the possibility of tanking as well.
    Imo you should be able to crit shields, that's it.

    Edited by Soulac on October 1, 2015 2:24PM
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  • Lorkhan
    Lorkhan
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    why "feminism"?
  • jasonburkart90
    The shieldbreaker set separates the boys from the men when it comes to sorcs. I myself main a vr16 sorc, and had to quickly adapt after being embarrassed a few times by its users. The simple counter to this is popping boundless, spam a few illustrious healings kiting, while subsequently popping hardened and healing ward. Follow that up with a flame or shock reach, streak, and burst rotation to manhandle the shieldbreaker user up close. That's just what's I've had success with and I hope it helps others :)
    Using immovable potions also helps immensely from being locked down and light attack spammed, so you can continue healing and face rolling them.
    Edited by jasonburkart90 on October 1, 2015 4:26PM
  • melloni_aleb16_ESO
    melloni_aleb16_ESO
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    and watching this video..the problem is Shieldbreaker ?! eheheh

    Sorc keep still ( use only shields )and survives anyway for about 15 seconds....The Problem Is Not Being immortal ? lol

    Perhaps avoid making build with 14-16k of health (full buffed with food) ... and 45.000.000.000 magicka

    good play
    Edited by melloni_aleb16_ESO on October 1, 2015 4:40PM
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  • LegendaryChef
    LegendaryChef
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    Jules wrote: »
    What's so glass cannon about a 20-30k shield? Idk, I just can't see the downside to sorc at all when you can be at range, stack shields to double your health and escape at whim when you're threatened.

    Maybe your point here would have been valid in 1.6 but the way things are right now my hardened and harness = 17k shield and I have 20k health without emp buff.

    You also mentioned escape when your threatened, if you have played sorc in this patch and tried to "escape at whim" after the stacking cost got introduced then you will understand that your point here, is also invalid. All it takes is 1 of the players to have a gap closer (which 90% of players in cyrodill do) then streaking away is just pointless due to the root spam from ambush etc.
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  •  Jules
    Jules
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    Jules wrote: »
    What's so glass cannon about a 20-30k shield? Idk, I just can't see the downside to sorc at all when you can be at range, stack shields to double your health and escape at whim when you're threatened.

    Maybe your point here would have been valid in 1.6 but the way things are right now my hardened and harness = 17k shield and I have 20k health without emp buff.

    You also mentioned escape when your threatened, if you have played sorc in this patch and tried to "escape at whim" after the stacking cost got introduced then you will understand that your point here, is also invalid. All it takes is 1 of the players to have a gap closer (which 90% of players in cyrodill do) then streaking away is just pointless due to the root spam from ambush etc.

    Your pool: 17K + 20K = 37K
    Average non-sorc health: 20-25k
    Nearly double. Come on now.

    Also, most sorcs I know are able to get their magicka pools to above 40k. So if you're telling me you can only bolt once and its a completely ineffective escape because of the stacking nerf, well, I just don't believe you. I think you should easily be able to use this skill 3 times without going oom. Sure, you may not be able to use it 5,6,7 times in a row like before --- but that's called balance.
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  • Telel
    Telel
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    Lucky28 wrote: »
    There is now a hard counter to shield-stacking and Sorcs act like the sky is falling.

    For months I heard sorcs argue that shields are fine, because "any class can shield stack, don't pay any attention to Hardened Ward lol"

    Well, Shieldbreaker can hit any shields, don't pay any attention to Hardened Ward lol.

    Yes, because it's sets a bad precedent. you don't want this kinda crap in the game. I don't know what class you play. but imagine a set the completely countered your classes main strength with little effort or thought required, it would suck and it does suck.

    I've said many times. taking out a sorc with superior DPS and excellent timing, is skill. This set on the other hand is is lack of it. it's a bad set to add to the game pure and simple.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sentry+Set

    Been in the game for a long time now too. As have potions anyone can make, and numerous skills that shut down stealth even further.

    But for some reason not a lot of folks get all uppity and flopping onto drama couches over it. Telel has certainly never fretted over its existence.
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  • DDemon
    DDemon
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    My issue with this set is its name... It's called 'Shield Breaker', but it doesn't break the shield, it ignores it.

    The name doesn't suit the bonus, it should be renamed, or actually break the shield instead of ignoring it.
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Jules wrote: »
    Jules wrote: »
    What's so glass cannon about a 20-30k shield? Idk, I just can't see the downside to sorc at all when you can be at range, stack shields to double your health and escape at whim when you're threatened.

    Maybe your point here would have been valid in 1.6 but the way things are right now my hardened and harness = 17k shield and I have 20k health without emp buff.

    You also mentioned escape when your threatened, if you have played sorc in this patch and tried to "escape at whim" after the stacking cost got introduced then you will understand that your point here, is also invalid. All it takes is 1 of the players to have a gap closer (which 90% of players in cyrodill do) then streaking away is just pointless due to the root spam from ambush etc.

    Your pool: 17K + 20K = 37K
    Average non-sorc health: 20-25k
    Nearly double. Come on now.

    Also, most sorcs I know are able to get their magicka pools to above 40k. So if you're telling me you can only bolt once and its a completely ineffective escape because of the stacking nerf, well, I just don't believe you. I think you should easily be able to use this skill 3 times without going oom. Sure, you may not be able to use it 5,6,7 times in a row like before --- but that's called balance.

    Stacking max magicka doesn't make you able to bolt more if you got at least ~30k. For that you need magicka regen and flat magicka cost reduction, and even then you won't be able to bolt often in a row. You also can't turn direction for BE while rooted anymore, making it a magicka waste.

    Annulment is still available to everyone, same a Healing Ward, not to mention Annulment only works against magic attacks... So we are talking about 37k vs 27k in the best scenario ((only) magicka build opponent(s)) - at the cost that Sorc doesn't have a realiable class heal that is no shield.

    On topic:
    Using shieldbreaker with Jabs is about the worst form to use it that would still make some sense. What exactly is the video supposed to tell us now?
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  • Rayste
    Rayste
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    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert
    The Teach - AD Templar
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    Rayste wrote: »
    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert

    hmm..I will set up a magicka sorc and check...i guess? I want to feel the pain you have.
    And If you get hit by a Wblow then well, l2p
    Edited by Alcast on October 2, 2015 7:21AM
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  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    Lorkhan wrote: »
    why "feminism"?

    -shrug-

    Maybe Anita Sarkeesian plays ESO or something.
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  • Soulac
    Soulac
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    Rayste wrote: »
    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert

    You can't crit on shields, so 10k surprise attack on a 12k hardened ward, both recastable every single second, isn't realistic.
    Heavy attack of 17k only from stealth so I'm not counting that in.
    Wrecking blow got a cast time and is melee, you're a sorc.. If you get hit then shame on you :p
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  • Erondil
    Erondil
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    Soulac wrote: »
    Rayste wrote: »
    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert

    You can't crit on shields, so 10k surprise attack on a 12k hardened ward, both recastable every single second, isn't realistic.
    Heavy attack of 17k only from stealth so I'm not counting that in.
    Wrecking blow got a cast time and is melee, you're a sorc.. If you get hit then shame on you :p

    Butyou can combine your 6k Surprise attack with 2k light attack and 3k bash ;) Anime cancel hardened ward on the other hand doesnt give a bigger shield. Also hardened ward is usually around 8k those days.
    Edited by Erondil on October 2, 2015 2:57PM
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  • xylena
    xylena
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    shield bubbles seem to scale stronger and faster than damage abilities thanks to the removal of softcaps, increase in level cap, and the champion system (bastion in particular needs a massive nerf, or to simply be removed and replaced with something that mitigates physical dmg)... this isn't just a sorc issue, shield stacks of healing ward + annulment + barrier = can be used by anyone

    as for sorcs... against a minmaxed sorc with basic class competency in a 1v1, hardened/healing ward stacks are mathematically unbreakable against most magicka builds (or against stam builds that don't use wrecking blow or surprise attack)... my stam dk murders sorcs in seconds, but my magicka dk or nb needs to rely on a lucky burst while the sorc is cc'd otherwise it's hardened + healing = 25k plus worth of un-crittable immersion-breaking trash
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  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    ouch, that had to hurt. sounds like a weighted bow firing like a machine gun is the way to go for Shield Breaker eh?
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    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

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  • Erudition
    Erudition
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    Rayste wrote: »
    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert

    Completely true - sheild breaker is so broken its just insane. My prediction? ZOS will leave it as is, sorcs will get rekt to the point where they play diff toons or a diff game and most of the bads in shield breaker will have to drop it because the shield users get thinned out.

    Last night I saw a great example of how stupid that set is when Lolimage (who is a knowledgable and experinced sorc for those of you who don't know him) started wearing it with a bow and pets purely as a troll build to make sorcs suffer to the point where they all start howling for a nerf. He is busy levelling his WW now too to perfect the troll build.

    It's a really bad set and the 'inside' word is that ZOS is going to do nothing about it - in fact they like it (hint: play the game more please guys).
  • Slayyer-AUS
    Slayyer-AUS
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    Healing ward needs a massive nerf then remove sheild breaker.
    World first level 50 horse
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Rayste wrote: »
    I love these suggestions from Alcast ("Have you tried S&B with some stamina?", "Have you tried blocking?") which reminds me very much of Araxleon's thread ("Why do Sorcs refuse to think outside the box?") or even DDuke's posts before that. When none of them have actually ever played Sorc and they are talking to people who main Sorcs and have tried countless of combinations to try and balance survivability with damage output.

    Reminds me of this gif :lol:

    BackSeatDriver_zpsig6zaxee.png

    This so much.

    By the way, sorcs are very killable even without the shield breaker set. I still see stam DKs and NBs putting out massive bursts from stealth in shorts amount of time. A 12k hardened ward doesn't stand up against a 17k heavy attack, 11k wrecking blow spam, 10k surprise attack spam. It was always a l2p issue it just needs to be said now. Shield breaker is broken and should have never been implemented. @ZOS_RichLambert

    Every magica v magica fight with harness and healing ward involved is a neverending fight if one person decides to go into:
    harness - healingward - harness - healingward... infintytrollmode.
    Magica templars can achieve the same effect 1v1 with bol spam + rune focus against stam builds too.
    Sorcs can achieve that against stam builds who don´t use shieldbreaker and have too low dmg.
    DKs can still tank pretty much everything if skilled right but lack offensive capability.
    I won´t comment on NB bc of forumblades.

    Harness magica return has to be changed into another perk. Healing ward needs a stronger inital heal and a weaker shield (finally killed my grpmate yesterday with healing ward - shieldbreaker achievement unlocked).
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Btw are jabs still bugged so the 140% extra dmg don´t apply on shields?

    I wish there was a good way to tell on ps4
  • Nivzruo_ESO
    Nivzruo_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Biting Jabs isn't burst damage, that's your problem, whittle their shields down with DoTs or Jabs and then smack them with Burst, either Dawnbreaker, Meteor, Take Flight for DKs, and immediately follow up with a animation canceled execute. Shield Breaker is a colossally broken set.... Can't hate you for using it for easy kills but that video proves you can spam jabs and fail to kill a Sorcerer, which is... Not an accomplishment on either end. :confused:

    Every decent sorc cant be killed if you do not use shieldbreaker, no matter what class you play.

    With shieldbreaker however, the situation changes quite a lot, burst him down to 10-30% HP then he spams shields and that is where you spam shieldbreaker = RIP sorc
    tho you need a Bow for that, otherwise he Bolts away like a chicken

    How do you expect a sorc to fight shieldbreaker bow light attack spam. You can´t outheal the dmg with anything but illustrous healing which negates all mobility you have in the process.

    I want a set that enables me to bypass reflect. Let´s see how your dk likes that one.


    Silly sorcs, if all someone is doing is light bow attack spam.. 1. stop spamming ur shield 2. attack them sureing u cna out dps the 2k per sec that SB puts out?.. No decent sorcs dies to SB in a 1v1.
    Nelgyntc- V14 NB
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Biting Jabs isn't burst damage, that's your problem, whittle their shields down with DoTs or Jabs and then smack them with Burst, either Dawnbreaker, Meteor, Take Flight for DKs, and immediately follow up with a animation canceled execute. Shield Breaker is a colossally broken set.... Can't hate you for using it for easy kills but that video proves you can spam jabs and fail to kill a Sorcerer, which is... Not an accomplishment on either end. :confused:

    Every decent sorc cant be killed if you do not use shieldbreaker, no matter what class you play.

    With shieldbreaker however, the situation changes quite a lot, burst him down to 10-30% HP then he spams shields and that is where you spam shieldbreaker = RIP sorc
    tho you need a Bow for that, otherwise he Bolts away like a chicken

    How do you expect a sorc to fight shieldbreaker bow light attack spam. You can´t outheal the dmg with anything but illustrous healing which negates all mobility you have in the process.

    I want a set that enables me to bypass reflect. Let´s see how your dk likes that one.


    Silly sorcs, if all someone is doing is light bow attack spam.. 1. stop spamming ur shield 2. attack them sureing u cna out dps the 2k per sec that SB puts out?.. No decent sorcs dies to SB in a 1v1.

    The problem is bow light attack spam is over 4k dps on HP on shieldbreaker - 2k would be reasonable.

    With server lag you often experience 2 to 4 hits of shieldbreaker light attacks before you can react because if the person is attacking out of stealth the delay for them to be visible on your screen is that high.

    If the person happens to be smart and is using shieldbreaker only as a very desireable perk and their build is not centered around it they can still threeshot you when you don´t have shields up...

    Also the set is one of those mechanics that make an already disadvantaged situation even more lopsided (much like aoe caps). Xv1 benefits more than anything else.

    Also i´ve yet to see a decent sorc fight a decent shieldbreaker user (with a bow). The ppl using the set to maximum potential seem to be exactly the kind of ppl that would try to stealthgank you with a bow in 1.6. Those usually were not very smart or creative and played accordingly. They still do.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xylena wrote: »
    shield bubbles seem to scale stronger and faster than damage abilities thanks to the removal of softcaps, increase in level cap, and the champion system (bastion in particular needs a massive nerf, or to simply be removed and replaced with something that mitigates physical dmg)... this isn't just a sorc issue, shield stacks of healing ward + annulment + barrier = can be used by anyone

    as for sorcs... against a minmaxed sorc with basic class competency in a 1v1, hardened/healing ward stacks are mathematically unbreakable against most magicka builds (or against stam builds that don't use wrecking blow or surprise attack)... my stam dk murders sorcs in seconds, but my magicka dk or nb needs to rely on a lucky burst while the sorc is cc'd otherwise it's hardened + healing = 25k plus worth of un-crittable immersion-breaking trash

    No, and you're clearly doing something wrong. I have no problems getting though shield stacking on my sorc (Magicka) even Hardened + harness + barrier i can get through it rather quickly. I honestly don't get what all this bitching is about. I think this is just one of those L2P situations.

    whatever, lets just nerf everything including the player base.
    Edited by Lucky28 on October 3, 2015 11:55PM
    Invictus
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