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Race change a conveince item?

  • M4YON
    M4YON
    Leandor wrote: »
    M4YON wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    M4YON wrote: »
    the fact remains hundreds of new players have chosen incompatible races for there characters and simply cannot function in veteran zones and PvP because despite the ability to respec skills, attributes and champion points the incorrect racial abilities are holding them back.
    That is certainly not "a fact", it really is hyperbole.

    One of my chars is a magicka DK Bosmer, race deliberately chosen for story reasons, melting face in PvP and PvE same as with my other magicka DK (who is a Flamespitter Dunmer build). No, the damage numbers are not the same. Yes, races do have an influence. But it is by far not a "cannot function" difference.

    I do hope that you will realize what magnitude of wrong that statement is.
    If i was a High Elf i would be more powerful than I currently am, if i, as a Dark elf Sorcerer come up against a High elf Sorcerer i am at a disadvantage because of racial passives that is a fact.

    Now i may of over egged the difference it makes but still competitive players such as myself would like the opportunity to correct my mistakes and marginalise the disadvantages.Playstyles, builds vary and make for good different obstacles to overcome but i see nothing wrong with wanting to maximise my builds potential.
    I don't see it. The Altmer has 1% more magicka bonus - not really significant. It is probably compensated by the fact that the Altmer has to invest a bit into stamina where you get a 6% race bonus - here you have a significant advantage on the defense side.

    What else? 9% magicka recovery. In a 1v1 situation, most fights are decided within one pool of magicka except for a staged duel situation where both sides are prepared - not your usual situation in Cyrodiil and even less so in IC due to the NPC influence all around.

    The Altmer's elemental damage and your flame damage are equal. Force shock is magic damage and not influenced by either, same for crystal frags and mage's wrath.

    Explain to me in detail where the Altmer has this significant advantage over Dunmer.

    Of course you can pick out other, more severe differences, like Nord vs Altmer, but even in the character creation description, this is clearly mentioned. To blame "inexperience" for choosing a Nord for a sorcerer and then later on complain about what effectively is a "I did not read anything in character creation" issue, is in my opinion not a valid reason for general race change.

    EDIT:
    M4YON wrote: »
    On a side note this thread has been bumped from March o_O
    Ah, godamit, I didn't even realize... Usually I am more aware of necros, so thanks for the heads up.

    You've answered your own question Altmer have a 1% increase in max magicka and a 9% magicka recovery bonus whilst maintaining equal elemental damage for a Sorcerer that is a huge difference it also means i dont have to focus so much on magicka recovery gear and head straight for spell damage (martial Knowledge).

    Considering I'm running a build similar to King Richards DPS build, magicka is important both recovery and max due to my retaining of health coming from heals and shields whilst focusing on wards to buff my spell damage and hitting hard with crystal frag/ magicka detonation.

    I genuinely don't see the problem with a race roll in the crown store it affects nobody but the person using it to change race im all for changing the passives to refine my character build and should i want to try something new a re roll would aid me in that.

    Yes bumping a thread that 5 months old is never a good idea i thought PC had a race change on the store now?
    Edited by M4YON on August 27, 2015 1:53PM
  • Muizer
    Muizer
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    Medakon wrote: »

    if the topic is done to death, why are we still fighting for it to happen? because its not done, and race change will happen eventually, the real question is "When will it happen". Even world of warcraft got race change, and there is a great balance between the builds there :wink:

    People are fighting for a lot of silly things. Soo many questions from people asking to get for free what atm you have to actually play for. You'd wonder why they're still around at all. If ZoS gave in there'd soon be nothing of consequence to play for.
    Edited by Muizer on August 27, 2015 5:53PM
    Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    @M4YON
    I guess we then have to agree to disagree. I value 6% more stamina higher than 1% more magicka and I play my sorc (neither Altmer nor Dunmer) quite successfully with 1000 magicka regen - a number easily achieved for any race.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have fun and have a good (on my own scale) kill/death ratio. My deaths are more related to running out of stamina than running out of magicka, since every John, Jack and Jerry is using fear, fossilize and charges to get me. Spending my green points in tumbling more than arcanist, atm.
    Edited by Leandor on August 28, 2015 9:05AM
  • Chapmaaaan
    Chapmaaaan
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    Zenimax would make tonssssssss of money if they added this. I'm surprised it hasn't been added already. Yes it would increase the likelihood of people rerolling the fotm race but Zenmiax and its customers would be benefiting from it so why not? They should at least add a barbers if they don't add race change
    Turmoil
    previous gamertag - DanielChapman89
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Skiserony wrote: »
    I have to support this. Really awful lot people say 'just reroll a new character', but that is not fair either. First of all, some have put over a thousand hours into their character, completed gold, chased titles, 10k achievements, high pvp rank, 290+ skillpoints, undaunted lvl 9!! (which is a pretty huge deal and takes a long time), endgame gear worth a fortune.

    Well some does translate.

    Acheivements - dye unlocks are account wide. Not sure what else you would need them for.
    Gear - well I can shift bound gear via bank to any other character.
    CP apply to any character on that account.

    If this was an "MMO" then I could see that everything should be account based. But it's described as an "MMORPG" which means that much is character based.

    However with either - it is the nature of online gaming that things will change, and change again. Passives have changed, and will change again. If the various percents of this or that are going to make or break your gaming experience ... well maybe there are other games that don't do that.

    I think a better option would be to dismantle the class system. That way if your race was more suited to "something else" than it had been previously, then you could just respec and play it. Working a "new" skill line up could make sense there.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (bosmer template) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • F7sus4
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    There's a good reason for the race-change to exist. First of all, people who are the most interested in it at those who started the game in April 2014. It was completely different meta, we had softcaps and race choice was more about game-flavor/cosmetics etc. But once the softcaps were gone with 1.6, race is somewhat crucial to your build and dictates your possible roles. Therefore, many people would choose differently if they knew in the first place what is going to happen. And yes, I think they should have the opportunity. Once.
  • Flameheart
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    Although a MMO veteran I made the mistake that I believed that character evolution in this game follows the "typical rules", so I could not even imagine that it would make sense to play a pure magicka Nightblade healer and/or magicka DD. I really thought a Nightblade will always be the usual type of a dualwield/bow DD class and as those skills use stamina, I created an Imperial. Man, imagine my astonishmenet as I found out that NBs and other classes are able to fullfill each role of the holy trinity and that you are able to play certain roles even with total different builds (stamina DD / magicka DD) or even as some sort of hybrids (DD/healer).

    Now 2 VR14 and a V3 char later I realized that stamina builds aren't my favorite play style, but I love to play magicka healer/DD types. My Imperial is now a NB magicka healer which gives me the most fun ever, if there wouldn't be the thought in the background of my mind, that a Breton NB would be a far better choice for that build/role.

    Ok, as you see in my signature I created a lvl 10 Breton NB and my goal is to let her do the role my Imperial NB is doing now, while I would shift my imperial NB to a stamina build (where he will surely rot in my character select screen...).

    So, of course, I would be up for a race change option, especially after already leveling 3 chars into veteran ranks, 2 to VR14. As great and well designed the quests are, as boring is the tedious grind, especially if you do that the third or fourth time.

    The issue is not that there would be a race change option for cash/crowns, the current issue is that race passive bonuses matter a lot especially for the role you wanne play and that some race passives just suck.

    House Dres once had a look at Argonians passives and there first thought was, that those would make good slaves.
    Edited by Flameheart on August 28, 2015 3:28PM
    Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.

    So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.

    Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)







  • M4YON
    M4YON
    Leandor wrote: »
    @M4YON
    I guess we then have to agree to disagree. I value 6% more stamina higher than 1% more magicka and I play my sorc (neither Altmer nor Dunmer) quite successfully with 1000 magicka regen - a number easily achieved for any race.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have fun and have a good (on my own scale) kill/death ratio. My deaths are more related to running out of stamina than running out of magicka, since every John, Jack and Jerry is using fear, fossilize and charges to get me. Spending my green points in tumbling more than arcanist, atm.

    Im currently running 1565 magika recovery and 1550 spell damage at VR9 with 4 Magnus 4 Seducer and 2 Torugs pact, i want more spell damage for DPS whilst retaining as much magicka recovery as possible i believe that changing my race to a high elf would hel me achieve that.

    Maybe your playstyle and build is different and so you will obviously have a different view on things but a race re-roll would help me achieve what im after and should i want to change that i would have the option.of purchasing a race re roll its win win for everybody.
  • mrskinskull
    mrskinskull
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    Ommamar wrote: »
    So after listening to timeout from Tamriel I got into a discussion with others who play the game. For those who missed it the question of race change in the crown store was brought up. One of the people main initial character was a Nord which with the passives is kind of set up to fill a specific role generally a tank or perhaps a healer. You can DPS with them but they will never be as good damage wise as some of the other classes that have passives that add offensive damage. I think it is cool that they have made the races unique but the drawback is to be in the top echelon of end game you need to take certain combinations with certain races to make the required numbers. Now this is really a min max issue which only effects a certain percentage of players. Still it makes sense for someone who has invested hundreds of hours into building a character to be able to change the race to meet their play style/build concept. What does this forum community think?

    I think this is a great idea.
  • CapnPhoton
    CapnPhoton
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    I would never do it. But a 1 time only convenience might be ok, just like a 1 time only faction betrayal quest but with a level cap.
    Xbox One NA Aldmeri Dominion
  • DigitalShibby
    DigitalShibby
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    I think allowing race change is a terrible idea. Build planning starts before you pick your race, not after. Allowing racial changes further promotes never having to reroll or create an additional character. Your choices should have consequences, if you are unhappy with your race, reroll. As others have said, people will constantly change to whatever is the best race at the time.
    Edited by DigitalShibby on August 29, 2015 4:47PM
  • MrGrimey
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    If ZOS truly believes racial passives are balanced, then race change is a convince item...regardless, so many changes have been made since release to classes, racials, champ points and the removal of soft caps that zos should honestly give everyone a free racial change.

    Rerolling the same class just to change the racials is one of the dumbest suggestions, getting all the skill points, leveling abilitys, Mage guild, fighters guild, crafting is way too time consuming just for a small racial change. Not to mention, racial changes can be a great source of income for zos to help support this game

    Edited by MrGrimey on August 29, 2015 9:48PM
  • MrGrimey
    MrGrimey
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    dharbert wrote: »
    No. It's been discussed a thousand times.

    All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.

    There is no such thing as a fotm race... Maybe besides imperial being the best race, it's still not fotm.

    Maybe you're thinking he's asking for a class change?
  • ChibiMechaX78
    ChibiMechaX78
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    If we didn't have Racial Passives none of this would be an issue.

    What about those people who don't care about Racial Passives, and just want to look different?
    If the goal was to purely change looks there are ways to go about it if we really wanted to.

    Why not make the Race Skins costumes?

    An editable costume that you earned as a reward from a achievement?

    It could be any achievement that took a considerable amount of time, but for the sake of simplicity why not make
    these "Race Skin" rewards be unlocked through completing all the quests in a particular area? For example, doing all the quests in Auridon gives you the High Elf skin. All the quests in Reaper's March gives you the Khajit. All the quests done in Stonefalls rewards you the Argonian costume, and so on.

    Then once you unlock these you can edit them for free initially. Like the body, face, and the works. However if you want to edit it again you must go to a special merchant or maybe just the tailor because it IS a costume after all. Which could be a gold sink. I'd personally would be willing to pay 1000-2000 gold per edit. Sounds reasonable to me.

    It'd be better if you could have these Race Skins and still wear your armor too.


    That to me gives me something interesting to unlock without giving me the race Passives everyone is uppity about.

    This is just one solution to one of the problems of course. Some people DO want to change races for the Passives. I personally don't want that option, but would love being able to change my appearance. Which doesn't affect gameplay.

    TL;DR- No to being able to change Races for the Passives, but yes to being able to change the look by making the Race Skins themselves editable Costumes that you unlocked by earning certain Acheievements in-game.
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    If a race change is a one-time-only item that locks a character out of ever using them again, it would be convenience.

    If a race change is open-ended and allows a player to change their race to a new race in order to min/max new builds every time there are skill tweaks and changes, then it would be pay-to-win.

    I don't get it. If imbalances are introduced in changes that make some races better than others, how is it a bad thing to let people change race? Isn't that good for competitive balance?

    In order to justify a comment that it is P2W, you would have to accept that races are imbalanced so much that it has an impact, and you would be making the judgment that allowing people to rectify the imbalances is worse than competitive imbalance due to poor design decisions.

    Let people tweak each times skill change. How is that a problem? It isn't the player's fault when the goalposts are moved.
  • TheShadowScout
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    If we didn't have Racial Passives none of this would be an issue.
    It also wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls game. And drop a huge chunk in my opinion... there are more then enough games without racial passives, people can always go play those instead... or learn how to TES! ;)
    An editable costume that you earned as a reward from a achievement?
    Costumes are not editable in the current structure, not even dyeable. It likely would be much easier to code a race change then a costume that can be edited to a varietee of visuals as the chargen provides...

    Also, they would not want gold sinks in the game, they will want crown store items, since that's how they plan on making their profits nowadays. And without profit, the servers get shot down by the suits, and I wouldn't want that...

    So, logically the most likely outcome is a crownstore-fuelled race change coming someday in the forseeable future, likely together with some character recustomization option (since if you change your race, you likely will also need to adjust your looks quite a bit...).
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Shy Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Righteous Orsimer Amazon
    Alakserden Haughty Dunmer Pyromancer
    Leers-Kanda Chivalric Argonian Dragon-Fangirl
    Karel Danes Drunk Nord Mountain Man
    Elsa Dekran Imperial Deserter Piratess
    Akar-Sendel Brutal Orsimer Executioner
    Skelandera Evil Altmer Necromantrix

    Andrea Selk Melancholic Breton Vampire Waif
    Al'Serkande Fat Redguard Ex-guard Bandit
    Dane Sarkel Fabulous Breton Hedge Knight
    Ales Endark Dour Imperial Grave Guardian

    Deslankera Busty Altmer Priestess
    Selkendara Happy Bosmer Tree-hugger Girl
    Kera de'Saln Skittish Khajiit Clockwork Kitty
    Selan Dekar Stern Imperial Blood Mage Exile
    Kral Na-Dees Pale Argonian Tomb Raider
  • MaxBat
    MaxBat
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    dharbert wrote: »
    No. It's been discussed a thousand times.

    All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.

    This is all that needs to be said. Man, this topic was raised a year ago and it sounds as if nothing has changed.
    "Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."

    Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...
  • Artis
    Artis
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    There is nothing to talk about. We chose races when the game had softcaps which meant that races didn't matter much. They changed the rules when they removed softcaps, now they also changed some passives. It's not our fault so why do we have to suffer? We made our choices but it was ZOS who completely devalued them.
    Of course there should be a race change. If not in Crown Store for everyone then just a one-time thing for every character created prior to any changes of passives/removal of softcaps.

    Have no idea why people who wouldn't change their race don't want others to enjoy the game.
    Edited by Artis on August 30, 2015 2:49AM
  • TheShadowScout
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    MaxBat wrote: »
    dharbert wrote: »
    No. It's been discussed a thousand times.

    All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.

    This is all that needs to be said. Man, this topic was raised a year ago and it sounds as if nothing has changed.

    last statement I recall from the powers that be on the matter is that race change will be coming at some point. So its only a matter of time...

    As fort the FOTM chasters... let them, as long as its pricey enough, everyone wins - they get their FOTM and can feel like they are super-effective again, and the rest of us can benefit from more money in ZOSs warchest, and thus more content financed & developed for the rest of us...
    Edited by TheShadowScout on August 30, 2015 11:56AM
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Shy Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Righteous Orsimer Amazon
    Alakserden Haughty Dunmer Pyromancer
    Leers-Kanda Chivalric Argonian Dragon-Fangirl
    Karel Danes Drunk Nord Mountain Man
    Elsa Dekran Imperial Deserter Piratess
    Akar-Sendel Brutal Orsimer Executioner
    Skelandera Evil Altmer Necromantrix

    Andrea Selk Melancholic Breton Vampire Waif
    Al'Serkande Fat Redguard Ex-guard Bandit
    Dane Sarkel Fabulous Breton Hedge Knight
    Ales Endark Dour Imperial Grave Guardian

    Deslankera Busty Altmer Priestess
    Selkendara Happy Bosmer Tree-hugger Girl
    Kera de'Saln Skittish Khajiit Clockwork Kitty
    Selan Dekar Stern Imperial Blood Mage Exile
    Kral Na-Dees Pale Argonian Tomb Raider
  • Junkogen
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    I really wish they'd balance the passives, but they can't seem to grasp that ESO has no soft caps and the reason the popular races are popular is because they provide the highest increase to the stat pool. Plus, damage is determined by max resource stat and spell or weapon power. Again, max stats are better than other passives because of game mechanics. Despite all the evidence as to what's creating the racial passive imbalance, the developers continue to try these "tweaks." The passives were designed with soft caps in place. Now that the soft caps are gone, the passives need to be redesigned.
    Edited by Junkogen on August 30, 2015 1:57PM
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