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Will there ever be Forward Camps again?
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Lorkhan✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »We actually talked with Lead PvP Designer Brian Wheeler about forward camps on ESO Live last Friday. To recap, we're testing some things internally, but we're not set on bringing them back. If you wanted to check out Brian's full response, it's at 1:21:22 on the livestream, linked here.
cool history, bro1 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat DirectorAnyone that had forward camps on their characters which transferred from PC still has them, but they are not for sale from merchants...still.Wheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Director2 -
Minnesinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forward camps had its moments that can´t be denied. What really killed my fondness of them is there were players placing the camps to troll "own" faction. If they were to be reintroduced I really really wish there isn´t any chance to start troll camping again. That is all I am asking.A is for Atronach.
B is for Bungler's Bane.
C is for Comberry.1 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For the most of the time, I thought FCs spread players out more than the current situation.{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
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JDar✭✭✭✭✭I know ZoS wouldn't go for this because it would lead to harassment and such but my idea is, put the name of the player who dropped the camp on the map when you hover over it. That way we know who the heroes are and who to report.2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If they made the forward camps so that you could only respawn if you died within the radius and limited it to 1 res every 30 minutes it would alleviate much of the abuse.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on June 29, 2015 6:59PM:trollin:0 -
The only abuse that occurred with FC's was opposite factions making a level 10 DC or AD or EP character to place "Troll" camps in order to block the opposing faction from using them.
An easy fix to that is to block the same IP address from being on more than one faction at a time. That way you can still dual log, just not be on a DC and an EP at the same time.1 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well I wouldn't mind FC again just they did lead to very long sieges or one sides ones cause it was just basicly a endless stream of zerg V zerg and of course AP farming.Edited by Forestd16b14_ESO on June 29, 2015 7:25PM0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Well I wouldn't mind FC again just they did lead to very long sieges or one sides ones cause it was just basicly a endless stream of zerg V zerg and of course AP farming.
It was aslo a lot of fun for us non vr 14 scums. We could be in fight for more than 1/50 time spent in cyrodil. You could learn a thing or 2. Now? Minding my own buisness, sure that mage ligh will protect me and i hear a strange sound - seems im knoced down but wait now its just death recap. Oh 4 skills used on me by one player. Skills i guess. Well off to riding my horsie.1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlyingApron wrote: »The only abuse that occurred with FC's was opposite factions making a level 10 DC or AD or EP character to place "Troll" camps in order to block the opposing faction from using them.
An easy fix to that is to block the same IP address from being on more than one faction at a time. That way you can still dual log, just not be on a DC and an EP at the same time.
I don't miss forward camps but I bet most people could figure out how to set up a VPN with a different WAN IP. There are also a number of anonymous IP spoofing sites people use to avoid being tracked when DLing torrents and such. None of this stuff is hard for someone to figure out how to do if they can find google.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You know, I still feel this is one of ZOS' biggest failings. When content is removed or disabled they just leave people to hold the ones they already had, rather than working on a repayment scheme.
In EVE Online when CCP removes something from the game they take the time to set it up so players are refunded ISK(gold) or SP so they can remove all items from the game and not leave some crazy issues in PVP where one group have stockpiled.
Just ranting...
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Roe needs a camp!"
"Don't use a camp at Sej or it wil
"Drop a camp at Brindle or else we can't get there!FlyingApron wrote: »I know ZOS removed FC's because they could not find a way to fix them.
Thing is, they were never really broken, from a technical standpoint. They always worked as intended. If I recall, the reason they did this is because the troll camping situation was getting way out of hand, and map control was boiling down to logistics instead of actual combat. I don't remember them making the lag any worse or better, except they probably did contribute to flag lag.
People thought they would magically solve lag, now it's worse. Go figure.For the most of the time, I thought FCs spread players out more than the current situation.
^2013
rip decibel0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭i loved them but caused to many issues with the servers. I would say no. get your mount speed maxed and use rapids does not take long at that point. dont want to run then die less.0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »i loved them but caused to many issues with the servers. I would say no. get your mount speed maxed and use rapids does not take long at that point. dont want to run then die less.
lol2013
rip decibel1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭i would also like to add there are many times we have wiped at a keep and made it back before the keep was fixed and unflagged to continue our assault. dont hesitate just rez and get back.1 -
ThyIronFist✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »i loved them but caused to many issues with the servers. I would say no. get your mount speed maxed and use rapids does not take long at that point. dont want to run then die less.Just fine without. You have legs, use 'em.
lol
Any more words of wisdom?
PvP has been awfully boring without FCs, these epic 4 hour long keep defenses barely exist anymore. PvP is a boring zergfest. With no camps, all you need to do is outnumber the defender and it's gg. In fact as a defender, most of the time you might as well not buy siege weapons and let the enemy roll in, they'll take the keep anyway cause of purge spam.
Without FCs there are no more tactics involved. When I was leading my guild, either myself or someone else was always on scout duty when we were about so siege a keep. Check the resources for a potential FC, and check the courtyard of a keep for a potential FC. It made the game more fun and tactical both for the defending party and attacking party, and when FCs still existed you could find PvP all over the map. Wanna run an elder scroll through the entire map and put FCs along the way? Great! Open world PvP could be found all over the place! As of today, it's from one keep off to the next keep, PvP far away from keeps in open fields is a rare thing.
Without camps it's basically fast travel to a location, mount up, run to next location. This increased zerging and made PvP dreadfully boring.
And those comments you guys posted and that I quoted prove you know absolutely nothing about PvP. I bet you're a Nightblade that likes to gank low-levels that run from one keep to the next because they have no camps they can spawn in.
Either that or you haven't PvPd long enough to know that running from one keep to another keep for a year and a half is BORING.
edit: as for troll camps, there were plenty of discussions going on and very good arguments (before ZOS decided to go full *** and just remove them entirely) of how to fix it. For example adding the name of the player that placed the FC.Edited by ThyIronFist on June 30, 2015 11:44AMThe Elder Zergs Online
Sainur Ironfist - DK - EU - Ebonheart Pact
Retired1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭ya so all i basically do is pvp. i have been in since beta and am an officer in one of the major pvp guilds (while i still do like to gank occassionally
). so dont assume because i have a different opinion than you that i am some sort of noob. in fact i ganked more with forward camp. i used to put a camp off the beaten path between red and blue (usually around bleakers) and gank in a spot where it was a constant flow of both enemies w/o having to worry about riding all the way back from a home keep. I also disagree it was more tactical. it is more tactical w/o haveing the forward camp. you cant just run out and sacrifice yourself over and over again. now you have to be more strategic about fighting the enemy when defending a keep or assualting cause losing a few players can make or break you so proper strategy is required so that this will not happen. moreover, it actually makes players rez each other b/c u need those players laying on the ground. and as far as the "with no camps all you need to do is outnumber" this is ridiculous. i have been in groups of 8 that have wiped 15-20 ppl regularly. i have also been part of keep defenses with half raids that held out against full raids. it is all about unit cohesion and playing smart. forward camps on the other hand did not require this and just gave a constant flow of players and a feeling of "well i can rez right here if i die." that mentality has died out in favor of more disciplined fighting because the stakes are much higher. in fact you found more zerg v. zerg with forward camps. also, as far as pvp all over....try getting more involved with your allies on your campaign. AD leaders which include many of the top pvp guilds have done well communicating and spreading out our forces all over the map in order to hit the enemy in multiple locations and prevent every group from going to the same area. this was a development in strategy that may not have been possible w/o losing forward camps. moreover, it requires players to understand the layout of the maps and how long traveling takes and incorporating it into your startegy. for instance, did you know it takes roughly 80 sec. to get from fare to brindle. overall, i have found that the lose of FC have created more strategy. this ofcourse does not apply to pugs that just like to run to the closest keep. and as far is the idea of no more 4 hour keep assualts i remeber not to long ago having a fight at alessia that lasted about 3 hours.
bottomline is i and many others have found more strategy with FC being taken out. before you call out people for not knowing what they are talking about realize that people simply just have different opinions then you. this does not mean they do not know how to pvp. in fact, i would argue that if u think there is less strategy now then with FC then you dont pvp enough.0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »ya so all i basically do is pvp. i have been in since beta and am an officer in one of the major pvp guilds (while i still do like to gank occassionally ). so dont assume because i have a different opinion than you that i am some sort of noob. in fact i ganked more with forward camp. i used to put a camp off the beaten path between red and blue (usually around bleakers) and gank in a spot where it was a constant flow of both enemies w/o having to worry about riding all the way back from a home keep. I also disagree it was more tactical. it is more tactical w/o haveing the forward camp. you cant just run out and sacrifice yourself over and over again. now you have to be more strategic about fighting the enemy when defending a keep or assualting cause losing a few players can make or break you so proper strategy is required so that this will not happen. moreover, it actually makes players rez each other b/c u need those players laying on the ground. and as far as the "with no camps all you need to do is outnumber" this is ridiculous. i have been in groups of 8 that have wiped 15-20 ppl regularly. i have also been part of keep defenses with half raids that held out against full raids. it is all about unit cohesion and playing smart. forward camps on the other hand did not require this and just gave a constant flow of players and a feeling of "well i can rez right here if i die." that mentality has died out in favor of more disciplined fighting because the stakes are much higher. in fact you found more zerg v. zerg with forward camps. also, as far as pvp all over....try getting more involved with your allies on your campaign. AD leaders which include many of the top pvp guilds have done well communicating and spreading out our forces all over the map in order to hit the enemy in multiple locations and prevent every group from going to the same area. this was a development in strategy that may not have been possible w/o losing forward camps. moreover, it requires players to understand the layout of the maps and how long traveling takes and incorporating it into your startegy. for instance, did you know it takes roughly 80 sec. to get from fare to brindle. overall, i have found that the lose of FC have created more strategy. this ofcourse does not apply to pugs that just like to run to the closest keep. and as far is the idea of no more 4 hour keep assualts i remeber not to long ago having a fight at alessia that lasted about 3 hours.
bottomline is i and many others have found more strategy with FC being taken out. before you call out people for not knowing what they are talking about realize that people simply just have different opinions then you. this does not mean they do not know how to pvp. in fact, i would argue that if u think there is less strategy now then with FC then you dont pvp enough.
the loss of camps didn't create more strategy in the big picture, it narrowed everything down to one strategy (for most players): have more people when you morph in a giant group to the next objective in the line. No more action in other spots (something ZOS is now encouraging). Boring.2013
rip decibel3 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭that is the problem then. players thinking in a linear fashion. this is a bad mentality and is found among pugs not organized groups. it is also a very predictable way to play the game. what FC did was allowed people to fight across the map w/o having any consequence of dieing. now there are consequences to dieing which this game was lacking. just b/c players operate in a linear manner does not mean there is less strategy b/c of FC. it highlights how lazy and unorganized players can be in this game and how they like to mindlessly bang their heads against keep walls that are heavily defended because they dont want to try other startegies. hell just the other day DC had keeps all the way down to roe/brindle and an AD acroll in glade. as soon as we took the scrolls we had ppl who had starred ash, nikel, brindle, and roe at the same time so that we had a clear shot to run the scroll back. this strategy is not possible if FC still existed. instead a brilliant strtegy like that goes unused b/c someone could just drop a FC in front of the scroll and zerg your group. its only boring cause ppl dont have enough of a strategic mind to make it less boring.1 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭the loss of camps didn't create more strategy in the big picture, it narrowed everything down to one strategy (for most players): have more people when you morph in a giant group to the next objective in the line. No more action in other spots (something ZOS is now encouraging). Boring.
The loss of camps did create more strategy from my experience.
With camps the transit lines became meaningless as camps could just be placed wherever and zergs would just suicide and port to a camp with practically zero risk and zero time cost.
With camps zergs just blobbed willy nilly all over the map. Now movement behind enemy lines has risk and reward associated with it.
Defending transit lines now has meaning. Also traveling to an active siege carries risk as you actually have to traverse the battlefield and not just port to it.
However, I'm all for camps returning in a very restricted form. For example, forward camps can only be placed a certain distance from the closest controlled transitus and automatically burn down if the that transitus is lost to the enemy.
Edited by Sureshawt on June 30, 2015 9:56PM0