Up-to-date-voting: Arena/Battlegrounds/instanced pvp

ShalidorsHeir · April 2015

Lhorion wrote: »

Hey,
first of all I want to ask you reading this text before spamming your "yes, yes, yes" or "no, no, no". If it is important for you having/not having stuff I suggest, then read.
I know that there are many threads about it, but there is not a single up-to-date voting I have found. There are votings, but they all are from summer 2014.
Why do we need a new voting? The answer is simple: The game changed a lot and the community changed.
The pvp became worse and worse, the lag became worse and worse, the zerg became worse and worse and the communits changed cause of players leaving and starting ESO. So it is time for an up-to-date-voting.

This voting is just about the question: Should be there any kind of instanced pvp (Arena, Battlegrounds or stuff like this). It is not about a specific Arena like in Oblivion, just the question if there should be a way to do instanced pvp.

My arguments for this:

- People that loves smallscale pvp should be able to do it. Instanced 4vs4 for example gives this kind of players the chance to have hard and fair fights against other players that love smallscale.
- The lag became worse and worse and you need to enjoy the lag because of the fact that without lag there seems to be no fight. People that love bisscale pvp could still do the same, people that just want to explore Cyrodil could still do the same. And people that love smallscale could escape from the lag into difficulty fights with fun.
- Smallscale pvp is dead at the moment. For a couple of time I am trying to run aroung solo. Sometimes I meet a questing newbie in a quest village, but just once a few hours I meet a good enemie that is fun to fight. Many people in my guild (I can name Eisen-Faust, Faust, Naizz and a few more) take a break from ESO for playing GW2. Why? Because there isn't a chance for smallscale. Zenimax, you see: If you are doing nothing, you will loose good players that have been plaid since beta one by one.

Some guys that don't want such a pvp have arguments, too. I have found a few tha last months:

- We don't want it so nobody should do it!
(My answer: If you don't ant it then don't play this new kind of pvp, you can still zerg and farm a lot more AP)
- The smallscale players will have more loot, better things, etc.
(My answer: Why? We don't wanr separat loot, for me it was okay having the epic rewards we have in Cyrodil. And AP... I don't think that there would be more Ap than you can farm in a zerg or you can farm by capping a ressource again and again with a friendly zerg)
- Instanced pvp would destroy the pvp because of missing balance in the future.
(My answer: Are you serious? Every game has a few balance problems and ESO has it, too. But many changes since beta were changes that effected smallscale, not bigscale. At the moment smallscalefights (when you find them) are great and enjoyable. So there CAN exist smallscale and bigscale side by side. Do you realls thing that a class balanced for smallscale does not work in bigscale? Since beta the balance that was intended was for BOTH, for bigscale and for smallscale. Si I don't think this is a true argument.
- Cyrodil would die because many people would run to smallscale.
(My answer: Cyrodil is dying because many people that would do smyllscale run away.)

Please vote and please (pleaase) bring some arguments if you don't agree. Would be nice to know why you are scared of this.

Lhorion · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

@ShalidorsHeir What exactly do you want to say with this?

Kupoking · April 2015

For Arenas, I would love to see it with a leaderboard intergrated for this system

I have some reserve reguarding instanced small scale battlegrounds. In warhammer online, they introduced them during beta and it literally KILLED world pvp.

Although in GW2 both seems to go well hand in hand. I never been a fan on BG type of pvp in an MMORPG.

I think that rather than that smaller objectives could be introduced. For example in GW2 you could assault ressources caravans being transported from a ressource point to a keep. Tick could be generated around those for defending or assaulting players.

I feel from what I read about imperial city that there will be small objectives in there to fight for so that might help.

On a side-note: What I would really love to see if a big-ass mob that would spawn at a random place in the map while being announced campain-wide with an marked on the map which would give the faction that kills it or deal most damage to it a buff for 15 minutes or something like that.

joshisanonymous · April 2015

NO, I don't want it at all!

FFS, just go play another game. This game is not about instanced PvP. Never was, and never claimed to be, but many many many other games are. Go play those and stop trying to make this game into something it's not.

For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would start playing a game that doesn't have the main feature they're looking for then complain and protest about it non-stop for over a year. When WoW came out, I tried it, realized it wasn't about large-scale persistent PvP, then I quit, because that's what I was looking for. I ignored a whole bunch of MMOs for that reason. Just get over it already.

It will definitely create population issues and balance issues. It was definitely a problem in Warhammer Online, the developers of WoW have explicitly stated that battlegrounds were the worst design decision they ever made, GW2 only works because they basically made instanced PvP a completely different game with many skills working completely differently and a completely different progression system and a completely different gear system. The list goes on.

Lhorion · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

joshisanonymous wrote: »

FFS, just go play another game. This game is not about instanced PvP. Never was, and never claimed to be, but many many many other games are. Go play those and stop trying to make this game into something it's not.

For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would start playing a game that doesn't have the main feature they're looking for then complain and protest about it non-stop for over a year. When WoW came out, I tried it, realized it wasn't about large-scale persistent PvP, then I quit, because that's what I was looking for. I ignored a whole bunch of MMOs for that reason. Just get over it already.

It will definitely create population issues and balance issues. It was definitely a problem in Warhammer Online, the developers of WoW have explicitly stated that battlegrounds were the worst design decision they ever made, GW2 only works because they basically made instanced PvP a completely different game with many skills working completely differently and a completely different progression system and a completely different gear system. The list goes on.

If you don't read I can't help you.
I play ESO for many reasons and any kind of instanced PvP would be greater.

There always things the game has not at the moment and the community is asking for. PvP-content, better PvE-content and instanced smallscale are some of this things.

I don't think that it would destroy Cyrodil, but I cannot take your fear. But remember there are a lot of compromises (limited instanced pvp as a part of the Alliance War) made here. Haven't read them? I think so.

Kupoking · April 2015

Well instanced pvp done wrong could badly hurt Cyrodiil, since people seek out quick ways to gain AP with structured fights. But in the long term, it's going to get redundent, people are going to ask for more different types of BGs and ZoS will be trapped in a pattern in which they must crate or improve their list of BGs so that players keep interest.

I admit OP, would be curious to see a BG with the current combat system in ESO too (as I prefer it over the combat system of WoW or GW2) but I dont think it is a smart plan in the long run. It seems like an awesome idea on paper, but believe me, I tried warhammer online. World pvp zone were almost empty, BGs were full you I got bored within1 month and a half of chaining BGs. I played DAoC for over 3 years and never got tired of the same RvR map and system. The reason why is that it's not structured, in doesnt pigeonhole players. It created more opportunities. It has more choices and options attached to it.

BUT - Arenas are a completely different story. Although it is PvP, it aims a totally different clientel as it's a completely different type of gameplay. You dont first for a war, you fight for yourself and you can still PvP in Cyrodiil a lot since matches arent as long (heck, most poeple in Legend play an active part in AvA). Plus it has a potential of crafting a good competition community regarding leaderboards, tournys, etc.

sagitter · April 2015

NO, I don't want it at all!

I'm not for arenas ,but this could be a solution:
What about istanced pvp inside Imperial City or related to it?The last alliance and the second last alliance that conquer Imperial City , have the gate open for istanced pvp ,or maybe once your faction conquer the Imperial City , has the gate for istanced opens for a certain period of time... so you have anyway to get through Cyrodiil and pvp there first.

Runenschnitzer · April 2015

NO, I don't want it at all!

no, because less people in cyrodill especialy if the imperial city and the labyrinth under the city is going life.

i have playes instand pvp at GW2.
if you run at random, it is still boring zerg.

the instand pvp arena was only capture the flagg and king of 2/3 hills.
so, you need special build to hold this point. you need maybe a healer.
if you have maybe 13 ppl in small guild, and its 4vs4 oder 5vs5.. not all members can play.
if you have a pug, its ok. its make fun, but maybe someone must working at the evening someone is missing.
this persons job cant do a random, so it will not a good fight.

my sugestion:
look at cyrodill a place and make tell to another guild for guild vs guild.
like daoc emain zone.
you only must riding a little bit.

i would like to make sense to have a pvp guild, at capturing keeps/ towers.
a Flagg/ banner on the top.
stronger walls/ doors.. maybe double at the sidze.. like DAoC keeps it will costs AP, to hold it strong and upgrade.
DAoC keep Lord system woul be nice, and Guards for AP buying.
The support lumbermil, farm ect. should drop the bonus to the keep in 15 min. not at 5hours.

sorry about my poor english writhing.

newtinmpls · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think that rather than that smaller objectives could be introduced. For example in GW2 you could assault ressources caravans being transported from a ressource point to a keep. Tick could be generated around those for defending or assaulting players.

I feel from what I read about imperial city that there will be small objectives in there to fight for so that might help.

On a side-note: What I would really love to see if a big-ass mob that would spawn at a random place in the map while being announced campain-wide with an marked on the map which would give the faction that kills it or deal most damage to it a buff for 15 minutes or something like that.

You have some really cool ideas here!

I do not want to "kill" the mass PvP that Cyrodiil can offer, but I also would like to see expansion/variety. Watching videos of the various arena challenges was just depressing - it had no context, no story/plot - for me in order to want to participate there has to be a reason (in terms of the world) and you have suggested some good ones.

Lhorion · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

sagitter wrote: »

I'm not for arenas ,but this could be a solution:
What about istanced pvp inside Imperial City or related to it?The last alliance and the second last alliance that conquer Imperial City , have the gate open for istanced pvp ,or maybe once your faction conquer the Imperial City , has the gate for istanced opens for a certain period of time... so you have anyway to get through Cyrodiil and pvp there first.

Great! I was not asking for arenas, just for any kind of instanced smallscale pvp.

Kupoking · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I think that rather than that smaller objectives could be introduced. For example in GW2 you could assault ressources caravans being transported from a ressource point to a keep. Tick could be generated around those for defending or assaulting players.

I feel from what I read about imperial city that there will be small objectives in there to fight for so that might help.

On a side-note: What I would really love to see if a big-ass mob that would spawn at a random place in the map while being announced campain-wide with an marked on the map which would give the faction that kills it or deal most damage to it a buff for 15 minutes or something like that.

You have some really cool ideas here!

I do not want to "kill" the mass PvP that Cyrodiil can offer, but I also would like to see expansion/variety. Watching videos of the various arena challenges was just depressing - it had no context, no story/plot - for me in order to want to participate there has to be a reason (in terms of the world) and you have suggested some good ones.

Well thank you mlady

Shogunami · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

I think ZOS HAS to give PvP players an alternative to Cyrodiil.

If this game is to have even remotely any longevity in terms of PvP then either Cyrodiil needs to be massively fixed (scrapped and totally redone?) or ZOS need to introduce some kind of smaller scale areas or instances battlegrounds for PvP battles.
I'd like to see ZOS introduce instanced battlegrounds that allow for battles between TWO alliances, surely Cyrodiil isn't the only battlefield on Tamriel?

Hell, I'd even like to see a zone where my alliance means nothing and I can run around and just have a good old fight, or team up with (for PvP/PvE) any group of players I come across, but I know this is just wishful thinking.

Cyrodiil is a great concept but it just isn't working, like at all. I stopped playing a few months after ESO was released and started playing again a month ago. A lot of things have been "fixed" during my time away, but the one thing that excited me the most about ESO had actually gotten worse than it was before and is now the part of ESO that I enjoy the least. Like a lot worse. Almost every time I've tried to enjoy myself in Cyrodiil since I started playing again it has been grotesquely laggy - far beyond unplayable.

The state Cyrodiil is in now makes me wonder "how can this even be in the game?".

Bouvin · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

People didn't buy the game for small scale.
It was advertised as massive pvp. 100s v. 100s v. 100s.
They should fix the as advertised parts of their game before anything.
ANYTHING.

I want all the stuff you mention, but only after the main part works as advertised and only if they can assure any new pvp content will also work. By working I mean balanced and physically working without lag and such.
They only now began to get a good balance, but a little more tweaking is required.

74% of the people voting on this thread would want instanced PvP.

Why?

Because the chance of ZoS fixing Cyrodil lag is slim to none. And if it does happen it's going to take a long time. They even said they'd have to rewrite the game core...

So why not give us PvP we can actually ENJOY while they work on a long-term fix?

Morvul · April 2015

NO, I don't want it at all!

Etaniel wrote: »

I don't want instanced small scale. I don't want a perfectly square and fair encounter in a given map that is always the same.
What I want is small scale in Cyrodil. I want something that is player generated, spontaneous and never the same. I want the map to be used in it's entirety, not just the roads between keeps.

Right now you say people who want smallscale are driven out of cyro anyways because there are only zergs and lag. Yes that is half true. But if one day lag is fixed (oh god one day plz), and there are arenas, there will be no small scale players left and no open world pvp basically, just zerg vs zerg running between 2 keeps and thats it ! Such a waste of Cyrodil's potential.

What I want is new objectives in Cyro. Not a ctf or some mini game, i want something that actually rewards the player, but that is a waste of time to do in bigger groups than 8-10 players. It can be something bigger than a ressource, but smaller than an outpost that for example gives access to somes crafting nodes when you capture it. That way it's useless for a zerg, as having 40 people fight over a few columbines is stupid, but useful for a small group that has a crafter who makes pots for everyone in the group you know?

And it doesn't have to be crafting nodes, it can be a special siege merchant that sells siege that lasts longer or that you can place/remove faster, could be access to a portal that teleports you to another side of the map where there is a similar outpost (that you have to control) or just another quest hub like a village but that is capturable so that only your faction can turn in quests over there.

Any smaller objective like that creates additional player traffic in otherwise empty zones, creates huge amounts of small scale encounters which is exactly what i'm looking for.

A couple of days ago I had a fight somewhere east of BRK mine, beyond the travelling routes that was something like 6 v 10. It was the most fun I've had in a long while simply because it was set in a different place than usual, and I could play with the environment a lot more.

Instanced arenas and battlegrounds are fun at first but become extremely boring after a while, because it's the same exact scenario everytime, and it's not open world,

Open world means always looking around for enemies, and you don't see a big count down before a fight starts, you get hit by an unsuspected arrow of fall upon an enemy group behind a rock !

This is my argument against arenas, basically.
I prefere ZoS to focus their effort on developing Cyrodiil. Not for the zerging, but for the spontanous small scale fights (which are usually inherently unbalanced) that happen all the time.
I love coordinated small-group fighting!
But if ZoS were to implement PvP "arenas" or "battlegrounds" that would a) take away developer resources from cyrodiil (which apears kind of starved for development time as is) and b) take away many of "non zerg" players.

I fully appreciate that the current PvP enviroment in ESO is not very conductive to players who want to meassure themselves and their group up against others in "fair fights". But I don't believe that a Cyrodiil-like PvP enviroment and a Arena-style PvP enviroment can healthily coexist in the same game. I think those two enviroments would deter each other.

I might be wrong, obviously

Lhorion · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Morvul wrote: »

I might be wrong, obviously

We will see, maybe.

Sarevok_Anchev · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

I don't believe adding Battlegrounds or especially the arena will be detrimental to Cyrodiil. Honestly, the only thing detrimental to Cyrodiil right now is its current performance and stale mechanics.

I really wish they would rework the mechanics and space out the resource camps to give it a unique feel. Here is a map that was drawn by someone I know not but it's very lovely and has a TON of towns. I'm sure it may be from the wrong time period possibly but seriously....why does this map look so populated and our Cyrodiil is so barren. We could use an overhaul. More towns, more quests, more objectives, and more ways that can affect the over all area in Cyrodiil.

Arenas needs to be introduced but keep it small. 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5.

Battlegrounds could be based on historical battles for the players to replay and only available to level <50. Cyrodiil needs to be the pvp end game focus while battlegrounds are there to help you build XP, understanding of class and siege mechanics, and some AP so when they hit 50 they can buy some gear to start them off in Cyrodiil.

SRIBES · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Arenas and Battlegrounds would make ZOS a *** ton of money. Plain and simple.
Something players can hop into at any level and have fun.
I think the Arenas/battle ground should be in the capital city of each alliance with different maps/arenas for every fight. It would make ESO very fun and allow me to jump pop in and get some action and fun.

I would love to see arenas be like the arenas in Runescape where you can bet/stake items and gold, allow no skills or no armor use in the fights. But arena should be DLC.

As for battle ground type things and mini games they should somehow work in Cyrodiil so Cyrodiil doesn't die off.

Astien · April 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

.

newtinmpls · May 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Morvul wrote: »

[if ZoS were to implement PvP "arenas" or "battlegrounds" that would a) take away developer resources from cyrodiil (which apears kind of starved for development time as is) and b) take away many of "non zerg" players.

I fully appreciate that the current PvP enviroment in ESO is not very conductive to players who want to meassure themselves and their group up against others in "fair fights". But I don't believe that a Cyrodiil-like PvP enviroment and a Arena-style PvP enviroment can healthily coexist in the same game. I think those two enviroments would deter each other.

I might be wrong, obviously

I can respect your concern and wariness.

To point A - Developer resources - if instanced fights (I'm not going to say 'arenas' because I loathe the very idea) were incorporated into the possible writs, it would possibly allow a bit of expansion

To point B - the 'non-Zerg players' who are hesitant - well if they are anything like myself and the folks that I group and game with - we only go into Cyrodiil to avoid other PC's as those we have encountered have mostly been V14's who smear us and chortle. Cyrodiil as it is has very very little appeal.

Instanced PvP would be a LOT more PvP than I willingly do now.

Which is none.

BIackHand · May 2015

NO, I don't want it at all!

Have trust in zenimax team, they will fix the lagg. ZeniMax should implement only things there were in the Elder Scrolls universe as arena . Battlegrounds would be *** i think, but arena only with rewards at the end of the season, without giving xp and ap would be nice.

Dunets · June 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Please get instanced PvP, everything else is awesome, but without small scale PvP its the end of it for me.

Raizin · June 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Taonnor wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

1. We have to meet somewhere in Cyrodil and this place is full of lag at primetime.

Yes, thats true. So, try to use an empty campaign. Or @ZOS creates a new specific campaign.

Lhorion wrote: »

2. Everyone can crush this fights and many people do this.

Did you played DAoC? The 8vs8 community was officially sworn in, that they stopped the fight and killed the crushers. That was a realy great community, i loved it. I think, instanced pvp like arenas will never bring this type of community again.

Lhorion wrote: »

3. It is a different between just a 4vs4 and a programed instance with rules, flags to capture, usw.

I played WARHAMMER and GW2. Both games had instanced battlegrounds / arenas. And i can say it will be boring very fast. There is no thrill like in open world small scale pvp. So i prognosticate, if arenas will come out, there will be a short phase all will it play and then it will be boring and the arena / small scale players will go away from the game.

ppl wil go away from this game, no matter the reason ,if this *** perfromance continues

(as they are alrdy doing it)

lurl · June 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

Being in Australia, when I get home from work the large amounts of people from Cyrodiil are offline and we are left with tiny groups which can actually do nothing. Battlegrounds/Arena PvP would be much preferred than walking around aimlessly with a group, trying to stumble across another group our size or maybe try our luck at a resource (usually fails).

PeggymoeXD · June 2015

YES, I want instanced pvp (Arena/Battleground/stuff like this)!

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

People didn't buy the game for small scale.
It was advertised as massive pvp. 100s v. 100s v. 100s.
They should fix the as advertised parts of their game before anything.
ANYTHING.

I want all the stuff you mention, but only after the main part works as advertised and only if they can assure any new pvp content will also work. By working I mean balanced and physically working without lag and such.
They only now began to get a good balance, but a little more tweaking is required.

I didn't buy the game at all. My friends got it for me.