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Zos seems to be begging me to unsubscribe. Ridiculous Customer Service.

  • ZOS_Gideon
    ZOS_Gideon
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    Alright, so after some digging and conversations with several designers, I think we understand all the behaviors in play here. Let's lay out the system as it currently exists:
    If you pass the damage contribution or healing contribution thresholds, you will get loot/exp regardless of your level.
    If you are in a group with someone who passes the damage contribution threshold, you will get loot/exp if you're in the same level/vet rank band as that player.
    The level band is 4, the vet rank band is 5.
    There are a few other common-sense requirements, too: You must be near the fight, not AFK, and so on.

    Thus, if you don't meet the damage contribution threshold yourself (because your VR14 friend is laying down a ton of dps, or because you're a tank) and you're outside of that level band, you get nothing. This isn't behavior we want, but the rule was put in to prevent players from trying to powerlevel their friends by blasting through dungeons at light-speed.

    After some discussion and evaluation, we've decided to remove the veteran rank band. That means that if you're VR and doing a dungeon with your VR buddies, you will get loot at the level of the instance. The level band that affects grouped players from 1-50 will remain unchanged.

    This change may take a little while to make it to live, pending QA verification and the will of Sheogorath, etc.

    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    They should really change the mechanic to acknowledge blocking and taunting and sopping up attacks as legitimate contributions. It seems to be based totally around healing and doing damage.

    You're not wrong, and there was some discussion internally about how to do this effectively and in a way that isn't open to exploits or abuse. Hopefully the level band change will make this a non-issue, at least for now, but we'll keep our eyes on it.
    Edited by ZOS_Gideon on May 18, 2015 7:30PM
    Gameplay Programmer - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited
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    Staff Post
  • Yoven
    Yoven
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    Thank you for this comprehensive post. Information like this should be posted more frequently in the way you presented it. Namely, with the background information leading up to a possible change (or reasons not to). I salute you!
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  • olemanwinter
    olemanwinter
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    ZOS_Gideon wrote: »
    Alright, so after some digging and conversations with several designers, I think we understand all the behaviors in play here. Let's lay out the system as it currently exists:
    If you pass the damage contribution or healing contribution thresholds, you will get loot/exp regardless of your level.
    If you are in a group with someone who passes the damage contribution threshold, you will get loot/exp if you're in the same level/vet rank band as that player.
    The level band is 4, the vet rank band is 5.
    There are a few other common-sense requirements, too: You must be near the fight, not AFK, and so on.

    Thus, if you don't meet the damage contribution threshold yourself (because your VR14 friend is laying down a ton of dps, or because you're a tank) and you're outside of that level band, you get nothing. This isn't behavior we want, but the rule was put in to prevent players from trying to powerlevel their friends by blasting through dungeons at light-speed.

    After some discussion and evaluation, we've decided to remove the veteran rank band. That means that if you're VR and doing a dungeon with your VR buddies, you will get loot at the level of the instance. The level band that affects grouped players from 1-50 will remain unchanged.

    This change may take a little while to make it to live, pending QA verification and the will of Sheogorath, etc.

    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    They should really change the mechanic to acknowledge blocking and taunting and sopping up attacks as legitimate contributions. It seems to be based totally around healing and doing damage.

    You're not wrong, and there was some discussion internally about how to do this effectively and in a way that isn't open to exploits or abuse. Hopefully the level band change will make this a non-issue, at least for now, but we'll keep our eyes on it.

    Thank you very much for your attention and reply. It's refreshing to see specific issues addressed specifically. TYVM.

    Is this something that will be mentioned in the patch notes of an upcoming patch, or is this something that would be hot-fixed at some point?

    If not the former, can you please post in this thread that the change has gone live so I will know what to expect?

    I'd rather not bang my head against the wall with my VR2 tank every day waiting to see when it goes live.

    Thanks again.

    SMALL NOTE:
    If you pass the damage contribution or healing contribution thresholds, you will get loot/exp regardless of your level.
    If you are in a group with someone who passes the damage contribution threshold, you will get loot/exp if you're in the same level/vet rank band as that player.
    The level band is 4, the vet rank band is 5.
    There are a few other common-sense requirements, too: You must be near the fight, not AFK, and so on.

    I'm not entirely sure that's the way it was really working in-game, because one of my tests had the highest VR as a DPS and the 3 lower VRs and dps, tank, and HEALER. (None of which got loot)

    Does the healing threshold and DPS threshold operate independently of each other? Or would the DPS being higher make the healing threshold higher?

    In either case, the change you described should make it a moot point, but I'd like to know anyway. Thanks.
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  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    ZOS_Gideon wrote: »
    You're not wrong, and there was some discussion internally about how to do this effectively and in a way that isn't open to exploits or abuse. Hopefully the level band change will make this a non-issue, at least for now, but we'll keep our eyes on it.
    Because ZOS' view is that it's always better to screw-over legit players if the alternative is the possibility that a few 'exploiters' will benefit .. amiritte?
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  • olemanwinter
    olemanwinter
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    KerinKor wrote: »
    Because ZOS' view is that it's always better to screw-over legit players if the alternative is the possibility that a few 'exploiters' will benefit .. amiritte?


    Well, this fix if it goes through will make it a moot point.

    I say leave the other conditions (like distance from boss, death, etc) but remove the "veteran rank band" (a new term to me) as he says.

    Seems like a win-win.
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  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
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    @ZOS_Gideon This is the best ZOS post I have read in months. Really. Thank you!
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  • Trollwut
    Trollwut
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    ZOS_Gideon wrote: »
    This change may take a little while to make it to live, pending QA verification and the will of Sheogorath, etc.

    I'm a programmer myself and I can proof that Sheo indeed is an existing god.
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  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Is this something that will be mentioned in the patch notes of an upcoming patch, or is this something that would be hot-fixed at some point?

    At the risk of butting in, this change will be in an upcoming patch (rather than a hotfix), and we'll make sure it's included in the patch notes.
    Gina Bruno
    Senior Community Manager
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter
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    Staff Post
  • Katsibrokos
    Katsibrokos
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    ZOS_Gideon wrote: »
    After some discussion and evaluation, we've decided to remove the veteran rank band. That means that if you're VR and doing a dungeon with your VR buddies, you will get loot at the level of the instance. The level band that affects grouped players from 1-50 will remain unchanged.

    This change may take a little while to make it to live, pending QA verification and the will of Sheogorath, etc.

    Nice move about removing the VR loot restrictions. Any info about when its coming? Are you going to give incentives to ppl to start using LFG?
    Btw are we going to have a LFG tool where we can queue for more than one activity at the same time? Where we can create or join other ppl premade groups for any kind of content?
    Thank you
    Edited by Katsibrokos on May 27, 2015 6:46AM
    Wood Elf Templar
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  • Wodwo
    Wodwo
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    THIS is the sort of stuff ZOS should be posting on the forums! Actual feedback to acknowledge they are actually listening to us and why/ why not they may implement a feature! Personally, this problem does not affect me, but this is awesome for those that it does. PLEASE keep doing these sorts of posts- you'll find the community is a lot more content with having answers to their questions immediately rather than having to wait 2 weeks for ESO Live/ the now defunct Road Ahead articles. Well done ZOS! Keep it up! (pls)
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