I think guards should be killable.

Domander · March 2015

It's just not good nor fun that they aren't killable. Make them hard, sure, but able to be killed. Make them call backup if one is almost killed so that you'll eventually be overrun or need to run away.

I'm not suggesting the ultimate outcome be any different, just that guards aren't stronger than Molag Bal.

You should be able to kill a guard, have your bounty increased a lot for it, and then end up dealing with 2 or 3 guards trying to kill you.

Kahrgan · March 2015

...and the incredibly long range on chains and talons. It's quite humorous.

Domander · March 2015

Kahrgan wrote: »

...and the incredibly long range on chains and talons. It's quite humorous.

revenge fuels this OP

Artemiisia · March 2015

I actually like they aint killable, suddenly the game feels more real, I know that sounds weird when they cant be killed but hear me out lol

In cities now, many people aint actually spamming skills anymore, they learned it comes with a heavy price

two days ago, I forgot this, so I stood there, holdning block, while doing interupt for the fun of it, then bam I hit a guard by mistake, so if I did that in real life with a cop, I would get chase, which was what happen here I got my sweet butt chased, slapped and kicked from here to the end of my rope

this happen in middle of craglorn, and some of my friends saw the fight, and laughed

I liked that entertainment

Cody · March 2015

I love that the guards can't be killed. It forces thieves to actually be thieves, not turn into mass serial killers as soon as they screw up. It forces people to suffer the consequences of failure(being able to just kill the guard is not suffering any kind of consequence unless they call in like 5 other guards to help) and to play strategically; something this game severely lacks at certain points.

Domander · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

I love that the guards can't be killed. It forces thieves to actually be thieves, not turn into mass serial killers as soon as they screw up. It forces people to suffer the consequences of failure(being able to just kill the guard is not suffering any kind of consequence unless they call in like 5 other guards to help) and to play strategically; something this game severely lacks at certain points.

This same thing could be achieved if the guards multiplied at low health. These guards are stronger than Molag Bal.

golfer.dub17_ESO · March 2015

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

Domander · March 2015

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

driosketch · March 2015

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

The outcome would be the same, but one would use a lot more resources to accomplish.

If you give players the ability to kill guards, they will kill guards. Right now you generally don't get players rushing to help a fleeing thief because it's futile. If players can kill guards, they will try to, and the more that jump in the more guards will spawn until it's a cluster.

Domander · March 2015

driosketch wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

The outcome would be the same, but one would use a lot more resources to accomplish.

If you give players the ability to kill guards, they will kill guards. Right now you generally don't get players rushing to help a fleeing thief because it's futile. If players can kill guards, they will try to, and the more that jump in the more guards will spawn until it's a cluster.

It would then look like every other Elder Scrolls game I've played. I think they should still be incredible hard to kill though.

Cody · March 2015

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

I can understand asking for a tone down on the relentless CC spam they do, but do not make guards killable. If this happens, then thieving will become a complete joke. there will be no strategy required, no real planning involved, and very little risk taking required to be successful. People would literally make groups solely formed to just kill guards, and make thieving require very little effort. This game needs more strategy to it, and the justice system currently provides some much needed strategy.

Domander · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

I can understand asking for a tone down on the relentless CC spam they do, but do not make guards killable. If this happens, then thieving will become a complete joke. there will be no strategy required, no real planning involved, and very little risk taking required to be successful. People would literally make groups solely formed to just kill guards, and make thieving require very little effort. This game needs more strategy to it, and the justice system currently provides some much needed strategy.

Did you read what you quoted?

Domander · March 2015

I just think it's immersion breaking that these things are the strongest mobs in the game. I'd like to see one fight the end boss of HR, or one entire alliance in Cyrodiil. Hek, why don't we have a couple guards go to cyrodiil for us? We'd win the war in no time.

Well, hopefully something might change when they add the PvP aspect of the justice system. You can't "leash" players. Maybe it will be doable since players will be the greater threat.

Amoren · March 2015

On one hand I agree on a lore basis (as Domander just said, your eventually meant to be a force that can take down supernaturally big bads across the world - yet the simple town guard can smack you around as its new play thing. I know Tamriel is a high fantasy world, but come on!). However, I think it should only be done when players can track down bounties and get rewards for it.

That way the choice between paying a bounty or fighting a guard becomes paying the bounty, running, or fighting and killing the guard leading to a several hundred gold bounty being placed on top of you and making players able to attack you. And I'm sure they'll be a zerg of players willing to pop you for a chance at a few hundred gold.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · March 2015

craglorn dungeon boss difficulty, but yes, i would like them killable too

Cody · March 2015

Domander wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

I can understand asking for a tone down on the relentless CC spam they do, but do not make guards killable. If this happens, then thieving will become a complete joke. there will be no strategy required, no real planning involved, and very little risk taking required to be successful. People would literally make groups solely formed to just kill guards, and make thieving require very little effort. This game needs more strategy to it, and the justice system currently provides some much needed strategy.

Did you read what you quoted?

yes, its why i responded:/

i do not want guards killable, and I have explained why.

Djern · March 2015

If the guards were killable what's to stop a guild coming in and killing the entire town? I know essential npc's cant be targeted, but ZoS really has to protect the play experience of the majority ie. leveling/questing/trading/crafting in the area.

I know its a little different. But i remember playing WoW before battle grounds were introduced. Leveling in certain areas were a complete nightmare because of the constant of mass pvp (Southshore, Ashenvale and Barrens). The towns were in constant disarray.

Maybe with the envisaged justice systems the guards will be killable. But for now the unkillable guards work.

Domander · March 2015

Djern wrote: »

If the guards were killable what's to stop a guild coming in and killing the entire town? I know essential npc's cant be targeted, but ZoS really has to protect the play experience of the majority ie. leveling/questing/trading/crafting in the area.

I know its a little different. But i remember playing WoW before battle grounds were introduced. Leveling in certain areas were a complete nightmare because of the constant of mass pvp (Southshore, Ashenvale and Barrens). The towns were in constant disarray.

Maybe with the envisaged justice systems the guards will be killable. But for now the unkillable guards work.

If done right, a guild would end up getting overrun by guards. They could kill a couple but would end up fighting more than they could handle. Kill 1 guard and you're fighting 2 or more, kill those 2 and it's 4 or more etc.

Domander · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

It's not even that hard to be a good thief, people just don't even try to play properly and rack up 80k bounties in the process. "Why pay a few hundred gold every now and then when I can just completely ignore the bounty and let it grow exponentially, herp-derp."

Make guards killable, everyone's just going to make thieving groups in order to kill them without any effort and without even caring about their bounties simply because they'll never die. After all if you're making them killable you're actually designing them to be killed, otherwise there's no point in making them "killable" when they aren't in practice.

I would however at least agree on toning down the CC as a compromise. Being constantly ran out of town by invincible guards is enough punishment, no reason make dying so easy on top of that. Fleeing isn't fleeing if you're constantly locked in place.

No no no, what I'm suggesting is make the guards killable, but call in backup, eventually leading to the same outcome of running away or dieing. They should keep the same damage and CC, you won't be able to "ignore them"

Wolves do it, why can't guards.

I can understand asking for a tone down on the relentless CC spam they do, but do not make guards killable. If this happens, then thieving will become a complete joke. there will be no strategy required, no real planning involved, and very little risk taking required to be successful. People would literally make groups solely formed to just kill guards, and make thieving require very little effort. This game needs more strategy to it, and the justice system currently provides some much needed strategy.

Did you read what you quoted?

yes, its why i responded:/

i do not want guards killable, and I have explained why.

Ok, I only asked because your reasoning doesn't seem to take into account what was quoted. Sure they could kill guards, and end up fighting even more guards, until they have to run away or get overrun. How would this make thieving a complete joke?

Amoren · March 2015

Although, having a guild walk up and slaughter hundreds of guards before being driven off really doesn't solve the whole immersion breaking thing (an infinite swarm of guards is practically as bad as unkillable guards). In fact, it'll be worse. It would create a massive cluster**** in the middle of towns, spawning massive amounts of NPCs getting killed and spawning/respawning, which would put stress on the servers and everyone nearby watching.

Djern · March 2015

Amoren wrote: »

It would create a massive cluster**** in the middle of towns, spawning massive amounts of NPCs getting killed and spawning/respawning, which would put stress on the servers and everyone nearby watching.

This.

Xallus · March 2015

Djern wrote: »

Amoren wrote: »

It would create a massive cluster**** in the middle of towns, spawning massive amounts of NPCs getting killed and spawning/respawning, which would put stress on the servers and everyone nearby watching.

This.

Yeah, I definitely don't want to see "LF Thieving group!" as groups run around cities like vikings pillaging everything they see with no consequences. It's bad enough people are already avoiding the consequences by bank stashing all their money.

One thing I think they should do is remove the auto-lock doors if caught indoors. Seriously, what sort of magical security system is this? I think its reasonably challenging enough to escape if you're caught and just have a bounty, much less evading the guards. The auto-lock on doors is overkill I think.

Madness1 · March 2015

I agree I defiantly think they should be kill-able, why isn't that implemented already? Is it a balancing issue?

I mean come on it's a little ludicrous how we can kill NPCs and not guards, or are you saving it for the DB or Maraja Tong patch/expansion as an announcement? If so that's kinda stupid. How about if we kill a guard or three we get hunted by other players also? Kinda like policing our selves, it'll make people think more about stealing and murder or any future crime implementations.

As a prospective bounty hunter the player could get half the bounty, which would lead to another money making (career) path.

Maegi · November 2016

Because this is not a true Elder Scrolls game. In every other ES game, guards are killable.

Easy fix for the thieving concern is this: The higher your bounty, the harder the guards are to kill, but never make one unkillable...it even makes sense in a roleplay sense. You stole 100 gold item, you get barney fife after you because it's such a petty offense. You kill barney, now your bounty jumps to 10k because, hey you killed a cop, ie guard. Now you got 2 really tough guards on you. You kill those, you get zoned so all if this guard action isn't lagging everyone else in town to an instance where you face a virtual guard army that is like fighting a Trials Boss.

STEVIL · November 2016

Domander wrote: »

It's just not good nor fun that they aren't killable. Make them hard, sure, but able to be killed. Make them call backup if one is almost killed so that you'll eventually be overrun or need to run away.

I'm not suggesting the ultimate outcome be any different, just that guards aren't stronger than Molag Bal.

You should be able to kill a guard, have your bounty increased a lot for it, and then end up dealing with 2 or 3 guards trying to kill you.

So take the unique element out and make it yet another dps for the win challenge?

No.

Domander · December 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

It's just not good nor fun that they aren't killable. Make them hard, sure, but able to be killed. Make them call backup if one is almost killed so that you'll eventually be overrun or need to run away.

I'm not suggesting the ultimate outcome be any different, just that guards aren't stronger than Molag Bal.

You should be able to kill a guard, have your bounty increased a lot for it, and then end up dealing with 2 or 3 guards trying to kill you.

So take the unique element out and make it yet another dps for the win challenge?

No.

You replied to something I posted in 2015, lol

Anyway I'm back to playing so I will reply back....

My idea is that if you come close to killing one then you would end up fighting 3 of them... kill those and you have 6 etc. until dead or you run away.

They should also keep guards damage similar to what it is live. The damage these guys do should keep it from getting too crazy.

There is no "dps for the win"

[Deleted User] · December 2016

Hello everyone,

This post is to let you know that we've felt it necessary to put this thread down as it seemed to have died some time ago. At this time we'd like to try and keep Draugr threads from roaming around front page, pushing down newer and more lively threads. If you would like to continue discussing this topic, please feel free to find a more recent thread if possible, or create one of your own.

Thank you for understanding!