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Impenetrable Reworked in 1.6

  • Manoekin
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    This really pisses me off. As a sorc, ive been sitting here hoping they would change impenetrable so crit surge would be useful.... Well nps they're going to take crit surge away from magic sorcs so we won't see any result from this. Thanks ZOS for once again *** over sorcerers.

    Where did you get that they're taking it away from magicka sorcs?
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  • DezIsDead
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    so does this mean the crit sorc build is back on the table for PvP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    PS. the post above me is actually a very intelligent post. /clap Rare to see that on the "official forums"
    Edited by DezIsDead on January 24, 2015 9:39AM
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  • Mauz
    Mauz
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    And if a a build's gap closer having it's damaged reduced by about 17% (100% base damage + 50% crit damage /2 (500 impen =50%))= 125% opposed to original 150%, ruins it, then I think it was probably a bad build.

    Where do you have this formula from?

    Additionally its a bit different. Most ppl running a crit charge or stealth based build use the shadow mundus with med armor and/or are nbs. My char is a Khajiit nb. For me its a 70% crit bonus. So for your example my skills do 21% less damage. And you say this is nothing if 3/4 of your dmg comes from guarantied crits, for the rest you have in general about 50% crit chance and you rely on killing quickly cause you have no reasonable healing and sustain?

    Without skill pts set its 65% crit bonus. So either it is bugged or there is a soft cap for crit bonus. Not to mention that 30% stamina regen from refreshing shadows does not apply. Everytime I'm testing anything I find new substantial bugs.
  • themdogesbite
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    DezIsDead wrote: »
    so does this mean the crit sorc build is back on the table for PvP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    PS. the post above me is actually a very intelligent post. /clap Rare to see that on the "official forums"

    Crit sorc was never out to begin with.
    :]
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Huntler wrote: »
    Tankqull wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...

    Yeah thats what I meant, I kind of assume it'll be a 1 to 1 ratio switch so that basically 5 piece impen cuts crit damage by half, etc etc. So crits even with someone stacking impen will still mean something, but really only be like a 25% or less damage buff (unless they are nightblades or use the shadow stone etc.). However like you said, a sorc running the 80% crit build without even using a spell pot is going to basically perma heal himself... this could be insane.

    Not quite:

    1) Staff weapon now are linked to spellpower. Crit surge morphs either tie it to Spellpower OR you get heals, not both.

    2) Sorcs can't crit a damage shield.

    3) Surge heal is still tied to damage. People aren't going to hang their impenetrable gear in the closest for sturdy or well-fitted.

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  • DeLindsay
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    It'd be nice to find out if the change is a direct change, i.e. 100 Impen now reduces the change to crit by 10% (Legendary), so will the change reduce the damage of the critical bonus by 10% (Legendary)? I think that would be fine because even if all the Blocktaculars had full 8pc of Impen they could still only reduce the critical damage bonus by 80%.
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  • danno8
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    It'd be nice to find out if the change is a direct change, i.e. 100 Impen now reduces the change to crit by 10% (Legendary), so will the change reduce the damage of the critical bonus by 10% (Legendary)? I think that would be fine because even if all the Blocktaculars had full 8pc of Impen they could still only reduce the critical damage bonus by 80%.

    Whether it is multiplicative 1-(.10 * (.5)) = 45% more damage

    or additive 50%-10% = 40% more damage we will have to wait and see.

    Unless ZoS just wants to tell us, you know for transparency and all. :)
  • DeLindsay
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    Whether it is multiplicative 1-(.10 * (.5)) = 45% more damage

    or additive 50%-10% = 40% more damage we will have to wait and see.

    Unless ZoS just wants to tell us, you know for transparency and all. :)
    I'm not sure the word Transparency has ever been uttered in the halls of ZoS. I'd almost wager it's on the no-go list of words that nobody is allowed to speak.
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  • DezIsDead
    DezIsDead
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    DezIsDead wrote: »
    so does this mean the crit sorc build is back on the table for PvP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    PS. the post above me is actually a very intelligent post. /clap Rare to see that on the "official forums"

    Crit sorc was never out to begin with.

    Kinda was in PvP for me. But I'll definitely explore going back now
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  • olsborg
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    My major concern about the impenetrable tweak, is that the reduction in critical dmg also will apply to abilities with a sure-crit chance. Like critical charge or sneak attack.

    That would actually make impenetrable better post 1.6 then pre 1.6.
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  • Kybotica
    Kybotica
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    olsborg wrote: »
    My major concern about the impenetrable tweak, is that the reduction in critical dmg also will apply to abilities with a sure-crit chance. Like critical charge or sneak attack.

    That would actually make impenetrable better post 1.6 then pre 1.6.

    Agreed. An ability like crit charge, where it is always a crit, will be significantly weaker with this change. Unless they increase the base damage of those skills, they'll need to be rebalanced. They have low base damage specifically because of their chance to crit, but now their damage will tank.
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  • Suntzu1414
    I'm confused.

    If impen is tied to damage reduction vs. chance to crit.
    This should "help" sorc and NB crit builds, especially those that are heavy crit based (khajit NB).

    Previously, when i hit in pvp with my crit based NB (i have another non-crit based NB). If the target had 5 pieces of impen. My 50% crit percentage would be nulled.

    under the new system. I would still crit (example):


    Pervious
    Base Damage 500
    Crit 50% 250
    Impen -250

    Final 500

    New System
    Base Damage 500
    Crit 50% 250
    Impen -125

    Final 625 (20% damage increase)


    I'm i looking at this correctly??

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  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Suntzu1414 wrote: »
    I'm confused.

    If impen is tied to damage reduction vs. chance to crit.
    This should "help" sorc and NB crit builds, especially those that are heavy crit based (khajit NB).

    Previously, when i hit in pvp with my crit based NB (i have another non-crit based NB). If the target had 5 pieces of impen. My 50% crit percentage would be nulled.

    under the new system. I would still crit (example):


    Pervious
    Base Damage 500
    Crit 50% 250
    Impen -250

    Final 500

    New System
    Base Damage 500
    Crit 50% 250
    Impen -125

    Final 625 (20% damage increase)


    I'm i looking at this correctly??

    Kill Well
    ST

    Pretty much, except 500 to 625 is a 25% increase, not 20% ;)

    The numbers look different tho if your current build heavily relies on attacks that ignore impenetrable, like critical rush, or sneak attacks, or shadowy disguise. In that case, you will see a damage reduction.
    Edited by Sharee on January 24, 2015 10:45PM
  • Tankqull
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    It'd be nice to find out if the change is a direct change, i.e. 100 Impen now reduces the change to crit by 10% (Legendary), so will the change reduce the damage of the critical bonus by 10% (Legendary)? I think that would be fine because even if all the Blocktaculars had full 8pc of Impen they could still only reduce the critical damage bonus by 80%.

    Whether it is multiplicative 1-(.10 * (.5)) = 45% more damage

    or additive 50%-10% = 40% more damage we will have to wait and see.

    Unless ZoS just wants to tell us, you know for transparency and all. :)

    as ZOS have proofen great math skills it´ll be a reduction of 80% of the overall dmg so you will be doing ~30% of your normal dmg when critting :P
    sth like
    1*1.5[crit dmgcal]-1.5*0.8[reduction calc] = 30% :P
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Tankqull wrote: »
    as ZOS have proofen great math skills it´ll be a reduction of 80% of the overall dmg so you will be doing ~30% of your normal dmg when critting :P
    sth like
    1*1.5[crit dmgcal]-1.5*0.8[reduction calc] = 30% :P
    Sarcasm aside I don't think it'll work this way. The change reads to me that Impen will ONLY reduce the Crit dmg itself, not the total damage you do. Meaning if you hit for 1000 normally and crit for 1500 (500 Crit dmg) then 8 pcs of Impen at Legendary would reduce the total dmg from 1500 to 1100 (80% off of 500). It wouldn't make sense at all that normal attacks would still be 1000 while crits of 1500 would be reduced to 300.

    Granted what you say is correct and ZoS does some things that make us wonder if they've ever played ANY MMO before let alone ESO.
    Edited by DeLindsay on January 25, 2015 5:11AM
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  • Cody
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    I am more than willing to trade crit damage in exchange for the possibility of having a chance to get the strike in the first place.
  • AnteCoyote
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    Oh no! Think of all of the ultimate that is going to be generated by all of those crits!

    Wait a sec...
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  • Digiman
    Digiman
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    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.
  • olsborg
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    Digiman wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.

    Personally Im hoping the hardcap is at or below 33%. If its more then that, the trait will still be mandatory for pvp. And I hope you can reach the cap with 4 or so armor pieces.
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  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    olsborg wrote: »
    Digiman wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.

    Personally Im hoping the hardcap is at or below 33%. If its more then that, the trait will still be mandatory for pvp. And I hope you can reach the cap with 4 or so armor pieces.

    crit dmg must be negated by a full imp set otherwise the allready insane TTK will go compleatly out of whack
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Tankqull wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Digiman wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.

    Personally Im hoping the hardcap is at or below 33%. If its more then that, the trait will still be mandatory for pvp. And I hope you can reach the cap with 4 or so armor pieces.

    crit dmg must be negated by a full imp set otherwise the allready insane TTK will go compleatly out of whack

    Another point:

    wKIrfuA.png

    As the full set is impenetrable, it wouldn't make much sense in it's current state.

    Of course, it may be reworked, like everything we are discussing about after all.
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  • danno8
    danno8
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Tankqull wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Digiman wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.

    Personally Im hoping the hardcap is at or below 33%. If its more then that, the trait will still be mandatory for pvp. And I hope you can reach the cap with 4 or so armor pieces.

    crit dmg must be negated by a full imp set otherwise the allready insane TTK will go compleatly out of whack

    Another point:

    wKIrfuA.png

    As the full set is impenetrable, it wouldn't make much sense in it's current state.

    Of course, it may be reworked, like everything we are discussing about after all.

    I think if you invest in a clearly tanking set, it's fine.

    The problem with ESO has always been certain classes with great survivability and great damage at the same time.

  • jrkhan
    jrkhan
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    Hopefully shadowy disguise will get something to compensate. The ability was the less popular morph to begin with, and a guarenteed crit will be less useful now than ever before. Something like, decreases the effective impenetrable rating of your target while active by x%. I'm sure we'll have more information about how everything will work together soon.
  • Huntler
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    olsborg wrote: »
    Digiman wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    It was inevitable, the idea of the crit chance reduction seemed inane for long term PvP. But crit damage reduction has been used in other MMO's at end game and is far more useful. I am guessing there is a hard cap at about 20 to 30 percent.

    Personally Im hoping the hardcap is at or below 33%. If its more then that, the trait will still be mandatory for pvp. And I hope you can reach the cap with 4 or so armor pieces.

    Enjoy the new TTK in 1.6 if you want a hard cap on it. People already cry a storm that the TTK is too low in this game...
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  • Satiar
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    I dunno what to think. Seems like a good change but will utterly murder my 2hand build I've been running since 1.2 :(
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  • WebBull
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    Well kills 2H builds. Pretty soon weapon choices will be down to the all powerful bow, resto staff, and S&B.
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