Medium armor - suggestion

OkieDokie · June 2014

Ok, it is an obvious suggestion to be honest. And it is not new, you can check this topic:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/109109/medium-armor-passive-dexterity-change-suggestion

I think the best way of solving it is to rework medium armor line and add the equivalent of 'Evocation' (light armor passive) to medium armor reducing cost of stamina skills.

Just make it reduce cost of stamina skills by 3% (at max level) per piece of medium armor.

This will make stamina builds more viable, create a better balance and it is not super hard to do. The code is already there, just change it a little bit. Probably could be done for the next patch.

One could say this will not balance the game because magicka builds will still perform better and reach higher dps. Well, that is true. However, the sooner people realize this will not change, the better things will be. If weapon lines granted the same dps a class system would be meaningless. So, yes, they should be lower. What you can do is help with resource management in order to make it more viable. Simply by coping Evocation and adapting it to stamina.

Anyone with a meaningful suggestion, please share it. Not giving a better option will not help as well, it's your call.

Azinurn · June 2014

well as i see it there is 3 armor classes in the game

Light, medium, heavy so why not make each armor set to reflect the attributes
Light = magica stuff, Medium stamina stuff , Heavy is Health stuff

that way the casters get there light glass cannons ,
medium armor gets the stamina
and tanks get there health stuff

just a tought.

OkieDokie · June 2014

I agree with you. I can't think of a good suggestion for heavy armor though.

Skirmish840 · June 2014

Light = magica stuff, Medium stamina stuff , Heavy is Health stuff

Makes complete sense to me.

AngryNord · June 2014

Azinurn wrote: »

well as i see it there is 3 armor classes in the game

Light, medium, heavy so why not make each armor set to reflect the attributes
Light = magica stuff, Medium stamina stuff , Heavy is Health stuff

that way the casters get there light glass cannons ,
medium armor gets the stamina
and tanks get there health stuff

just a tought.

This

danno8 · June 2014

Once again, because stamina is good for both dps skills (weapon skills) and for blocking (the best mitigation in the game) it makes no sense to restrict it to medium armour only.

Again, my suggestion is to have a separate defensive resource pool that would be the heavy armour specialty. I believe it is the only way stamina builds can ever become balanced with magicka builds, by uncoupling all the defensive abilities like dodge and block and even sprint from stamina.

So I propose:
Light = Magicka
Medium = Dexterity
Heavy = Stamina

I switched the names around a bit, but the end result is 3 lines, 3 pools of resources.

Devlinne · June 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Once again, because stamina is good for both dps skills (weapon skills) and for blocking (the best mitigation in the game) it makes no sense to restrict it to medium armour only.

Again, my suggestion is to have a separate defensive resource pool that would be the heavy armour specialty. I believe it is the only way stamina builds can ever become balanced with magicka builds, by uncoupling all the defensive abilities like dodge and block and even sprint from stamina.

So I propose:
Light = Magicka
Medium = Dexterity
Heavy = Stamina

I switched the names around a bit, but the end result is 3 lines, 3 pools of resources.

I thought of something like this too...however the exploitability is there:(
Imagine i roll a sorc in light armor. big pool of mana, then i use sword and shield and use purely weapon skills. throw in the warlock set, seducer to reduce cost....

so in theory, i can block forever while still killing you.:( Invasion, pierce armor,bash lowstrike animation cancelling etc etc.

the outrage will be crazy...

I really dunno how to balance it. I was even thinking of an extra utility bar that block and sprint, cc break uses SOLEY and not touching magicka or stamina...but then...that would make everyone a super tank...

I dunno.:(

best suggestion i saw someone post was...make cost both magicka and stamina. to even it out.

Soliss · June 2014

I completely agree. Medium armor needs a Stamina Cost Reduction built-in. Although the weapon lines already have a cost reduction built-in, it doesn't bring them up to par with the magicka skills and bonuses from armor.

However, I think the Stamina Cost Reduction should be something like 2% instead of 3% per piece. To make room in the Medium armor line, I'd remove the Attack Speed buff (since this is really buggy and doesn't work as expected) and move the Stealth Modifers to the 5 piece bonus and then have the Stamina Cost Reduction as the 3rd medium armor passive.

For Heavy Armor, due to the armor caps (which the softcaps definitely need to be raised), I'd add in a straight 2% per piece of armor all-around Incoming Damage Reduction to either the 1st or 3rd passive. In addition, I'd throw in a 1% per piece AOE Damage Reduction to the 5th passive.

I think that would be the best way to balance the armor lines.

Also, why is there no Stamina Restore/Reduction armor sets? Magicka has Warlock, Magicka Furnace, Seducer and Magnus. Stamina sets only have reductions that don't stack well with other stealth bonuses. Some sprint bonuses and cc reductions. But nothing like what Magicka has.

And to combat the reductions, block needs to be changed so it's not 360 degrees. Maybe 270 or 180 with reduced block mitigations from behind.

danno8 · June 2014

Devlinne wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Once again, because stamina is good for both dps skills (weapon skills) and for blocking (the best mitigation in the game) it makes no sense to restrict it to medium armour only.

Again, my suggestion is to have a separate defensive resource pool that would be the heavy armour specialty. I believe it is the only way stamina builds can ever become balanced with magicka builds, by uncoupling all the defensive abilities like dodge and block and even sprint from stamina.

So I propose:
Light = Magicka
Medium = Dexterity
Heavy = Stamina

I switched the names around a bit, but the end result is 3 lines, 3 pools of resources.

I thought of something like this too...however the exploitability is there:(
Imagine i roll a sorc in light armor. big pool of mana, then i use sword and shield and use purely weapon skills. throw in the warlock set, seducer to reduce cost....

so in theory, i can block forever while still killing you.:( Invasion, pierce armor,bash lowstrike animation cancelling etc etc.

the outrage will be crazy...

I really dunno how to balance it. I was even thinking of an extra utility bar that block and sprint, cc break uses SOLEY and not touching magicka or stamina...but then...that would make everyone a super tank...

I dunno.:(

best suggestion i saw someone post was...make cost both magicka and stamina. to even it out.

One of the things that need to go is blocking while casting instant abilities. It makes no sense balance wise and immediately makes all instant cast abilities better than channeled or cast timed.

Also, holding down block should cost some of this resource at a per second rate, as to avoid simply holding down the button indefinitely.

Blocking should be skillful in a reaction based combat game like this, but right now it is not.

Also, maybe blocking with a new pool of resource means that resource depletes at a greater rate than currently.

Aoifesan · June 2014

OkieDokie wrote: »

Ok, it is an obvious suggestion to be honest. And it is not new, you can check this topic:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/109109/medium-armor-passive-dexterity-change-suggestion

I think the best way of solving it is to rework medium armor line and add the equivalent of 'Evocation' (light armor passive) to medium armor reducing cost of stamina skills.

Just make it reduce cost of stamina skills by 3% (at max level) per piece of medium armor.

You really need to cut stamina costs in HALF before things get even close to equal.

Everything NOT a class ability or spell uses Stamina. And Blocking and sprinting use BIG PERCENTAGES at a time not flat numbers. Some stamina abilities are upwards of 400(armor abilities and 1h/ s I'm looking at you) stamina, which is 1/3 to 1/4 your pool.

So the reductions need to be major heck even at 200 stamina an ability that's still only 6 uses in a row before you are dry.

Why are the abilities costing so much?

kirnmalidus · June 2014

Totally agree. This seems so obvious for the medium armor passives to be comparable with the light armor passives that I'm honestly amazed they didn't do it this way to begin with.

That said, while this will help with the magicka/stamina imbalance in the game, it won't fix it entirely. It won't be resolved until they deal with the fact that CC break, sneaking, dodging and running draw from Stamina and only abilities draw from Magicka.

Postumus · June 2014

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Totally agree. This seems so obvious for the medium armor passives to be comparable with the light armor passives that I'm honestly amazed they didn't do it this way to begin with.

That said, while this will help with the magicka/stamina imbalance in the game, it won't fix it entirely. It won't be resolved until they deal with the fact that CC break, sneaking, dodging and running draw from Stamina and only abilities draw from Magicka.

At this point, I don't see them adding a third resource for sneak/block/roll/sprint. Having medium armor passives reduce the cost for all of those things is an excellent idea.

However, all that will really do is establish parity, where a stamina based build will have essentially the same amount of stam to use for skill as magicka users have magicka available. It doesn't mean that, in a normal combat situation, stam users will be able to sneak/block/roll/sprint any more than magicka users, despite cost reductions.

Furthermore, the way things work right now, light armor/magicka users are, bar the single blocking passive for heavy armor, just as good at blocking as heavy armor/stam users. Also, while the medium armor line includes cost reduction for roll dodge, light armor/magicka users can roll just as far, with the same cooldown as a player with full medium armor and a stam build.

Stamina is supposed to be a measure of physical fitness and athleticism. It doesn't make sense that a player who is very high in stamina, and thus supposedly fit and athletic, would be worse at doing physically demanding things like blocking an attack or doing gymnastics.

I already made a suggestion to the point that max stamina should affect how effectively a player does things like blocking, dodging and sprinting, in terms of block mitigation, roll distance/cooldown, and sprint speed. I think that it would go a ways towards balancing and defining the role of a stamina based build.

LadyDestiny · June 2014

Skirmish840 wrote: »

Light = magica stuff, Medium stamina stuff , Heavy is Health stuff

Makes complete sense to me.

That is the problem.......it makes perfect sense

Blinks · June 2014

Whats funny is I bet the community could balance the game better than the Zenimax team, in half the amount of time even if we had to learn how to code

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Can I ask a stupid question WHATS WRONG with the stamina reduction costs on the weapons themselves?????? ALL weapons as far as I know provide a 20% cost reduction SPECIFIC to THAT weapon which is WHERE your cost is going to come from anyways.

The 3 armors are perfectly balanced as far as I can see.

Light Armor is for Spell casting
Meduim Armor is for Melee
Heavy Armor is for Survivability/Tanking

All 3 work perfectly fine.

Kewljag_66_ESO · June 2014

Id like to see medium armor really excel at sneaking, it has some boost now but on the battle field it really doesnt give you that much more of a benefit compared to the other 1 types, as they can sneak almost as effective. id like to see medium armor add a bigger sneak detection radius so you can see those other armor types "trying" to sneak and allow the medium armor user to sneak attack them. id also like to see medium armor has a sneak movement speed bonus.

Xsorus · June 2014

the 10% weapon speed bonus need to be changed on Medium Armor, reason being it only works on light/heavy attacks for melee weapons

Bows don't get a bonus at all, despite being best with Medium Armor

light armor's passive works on all abilities
heavy armor's passive works no matter what weapon you have.

nicholasmccullinb14_ESO · July 2014

There needs to be a way to use MAG to block, roll and sprint. This would solve the issue. Make it a 5 piece med bonus, make it a crafted set bonus, make it a guild passive. Whatever! Just make it happen. The only other thing we would need it Stam builds to be valid is some way of recovering Stam equal to the resto staff heavy charge. Maybe heavy charge with the bow. Or all heavy charges return resource specific to that weapon.

Xnemesis · July 2014

I think these changes should be put in the game to help with stamina builds and Blocking. It is a Long read but lots of good ideas that would help IMO.

1) I think med armor should have a 2 point passive that gives you stamina, Magicka, and a boost to in combat stamina regen if you successfully dodge or block a heavy attack.

2) Light armor 2 point passive could just give a 50-100% crit on next attack after a successful dodge or block of a heavy attack. Call it retaliate.

3) While heavy armor gets some Health, Stamina, Magicka, and in combat regen boost of health and stamina after a successful dodge or block of a heavy attack.

4) Lower the cost of sprinting, dodging, sneaking, and blocking drastically. CC break can remain the same.

5) Change armor caps based on armor type.
650 on light armor, 1300 for medium armor, and 2000 for heavy

6) Spell resist needs to be changed per armor type.
1500 on light, 750 on medium, and 500 on heavy
(Shield will have a passive that increases this and physical armor to make heavy armor tanks the best choice)

7) Increase the light and heavy damage of all stamina based weapons. Drastically increase melee weapon damage.

8) Fix attack speed armor passives, ability buffs, and weapon traits for all ranged weapons. As it stands right now we should be able to fire arrows and magic quite quickly, however that is just not the case.

9) Make bows fire when you fully charge a heavy attack similar to staves. It is hard for us to judge just how long it takes to get full damage from a heavy attack. Even more so when we have attack speed passive from medium armor, weighted trait, and haste (assuming they fix haste for heavy attacks).

10) Make abilities scale of whichever resource is the higher one. This would allow all abilities to be used with effectiveness regardless of which resource is required to cast it. Solves a ton of issues and opens the door to different builds. (This is probably the change I want to see made the most as well as the armor passives)

For block I suggest

1) have a debuff over time, call it fatigue, that reduces the amount mitigated by 10% every two seconds with a cap at 45%. So say you have 75% mitigation when blocking, after 2 seconds it would become 65% then 2 more seconds 55% and then 45% at 6 seconds of blocking. This would prevent players from holding block while attacking and making it function as a reactionary tool like it should. Note, this debuff would last for 2 seconds after block is released.

2) block should function with a 270 degree front sector. Anything in the 90 degree sector behind you would still have a certain percent mitigated but not the full amount, as if you were hit from the front 270 degree sector. Also any CC applied from the rear 90 degree sector would not be blocked. Not sure on what a fair percentage of mitigation would be for attacks from the rear while blocking, but I am sure if put on the test server the community could come up with something. Maybe even offer a heavy armor perk that increases that rear 90 Degree mitigation.

3) make blocking while moving cost stamina cause well shields ain't light. It would function similar to sneaking, but at a reduced rate. Also reduce the cost of stamina exerted after a successful block to counter the ticking down of stamina while blocking and moving.

4) offer a small mitigation buff after a successful block that way tanks will have the ability to weave in light and heavy attacks it could even be a 2 second or 3 second buff. This buff would cancel when the shield is raised again as to prevent stacking the buff on top of regular shield mitigation.

I would also like to add that a magical shield should not abide by the front 270 degree and rear 90 degree sector rules due to the fact they are just a buff and cannot be sustained throughout the whole fight.

Any other ideas are welcome as well as feedback. The more we can agree on a solution the better chance of getting it fixed. Block isn't broken it just needs to be made situational while offering risk and reward.

TheRealSniker · January 2019

Buff Medium Armor