The Future of ESO subscribers

Roechacca

Hey Gang ,

I have a lot of friends that leveled to 50 real quick and went into their veteran ranks with great frustration . We all have had our fair share of bugs to deal with as well . Many of those friends already unsubed and left and I believe the reason was only half about the problems in game . I think the reason they unsubed so quickly was they didn't think customer service wasn't satisfactory at all .

Now I can't leave . Nothing gets me that upset with a new MMO . Besides I really enjoy this game and love the combat and graphics . My question is , do You think the customer service can be improved here ? Do You believe better communication will keep skeptical players around longer till fixes come through ?

I'm not writing this wanting anyone to bash one another for staying or leaving . I just think the health of the MMO will definitely depend on how the DEVS , CS and PLAYERS interact together to resolve issues quickly for paying subscribers .

What do think the future holds here ?

Phantax

Their customer service definitely needs looking at. Generic email responses to almost all issues is just borderline rude.

The communication isn't that bad. There are quite a lot of official responses here on the forums (much more than I've seen on certain other MMOs) Not saying its perfect though. At 100 million+ (or whatever the cost was for ESO) you'd think a piffling 25k a year to pay a full time liason to the forums would be common sense !

Hell I've got CS experience on my CV I'd do it for them !

Thechemicals

Your friends left too soon. Sry for them, but you have many more new friends to find ingame.

Dita

The Dark Side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.

Roechacca

Phantax wrote: »

Their customer service definitely needs looking at. Generic email responses to almost all issues is just borderline rude.

The communication isn't that bad. There are quite a lot of official responses here on the forums (much more than I've seen on certain other MMOs) Not saying its perfect though. At 100 million+ (or whatever the cost was for ESO) you'd think a piffling 25k a year to pay a full time liason to the forums would be common sense !

Hell I've got CS experience on my CV I'd do it for them !

Yes the generic premade bot email answers are very frustrating . I put in tickets and reports a few times and never got an answer from CS . I got the answer from other players later on .

dawnhawk

I've had very limited experience with customer service. Aside from occasionally reporting spam mails and here on the forums. I'm in vr3 content and have completed every single quest I could ferret out in every zone along the way. I've yet to have a problem that wasn't fixed promptly.

I have no problem keeping on top of what is happening via the forums.

As it been completely smooth? No, but it has been manageable.

So from my personal biased view... CS has been fine.

I think the future will be fine. Same as every other massive player base game where everything you do is going to be "the end of the world" for someone... And everyone else will continue along, most likely never noticing that the sky never fell... Or even realising it was supposed to.

Roechacca

dawnhawk wrote: »

I've had very limited experience with customer service. Aside from occasionally reporting spam mails and here on the forums. I'm in vr3 content and have completed every single quest I could ferret out in every zone along the way. I've yet to have a problem that wasn't fixed promptly.

I have problem keeping on top of what is happening via the forums.

As it been completely smooth? No, but it has been manageable.

So from my personal biased view... CS has been fine.

I think the future will be fine. Same as every other massive player base game where everything you do is going to be "the end of the world" for someone... And everyone else will continue along, most likely never noticing that the sky never fell... Or even realising it was supposed to.

Ya know I think you're probably right , everything will be fine . I would just like to see the CS and Devs make everything great for everyone and break the mold of other games that lost huge initial subs . This game has the potential to be #1 in my opinion and the people in the office should strive for that .

Malediktus

Yes, the communication is lacking a lot and the customer support is terrible. On the first 1-2 mails you always seem to get copy and paste answers.
Here on forums they keep using corporate speak 90% of the time which can mean anything.

BTOG46

Sadly, generic pre made auto response emails are becoming the norm among game companies these days, if you don't follow up the auto reply, you never get to get a real CS staff member to talk to.

dennissomb16_ESO

I think we see a lot of forum rage, claims of giant guilds with mass exodus, and various posts explaining why the entire player base is upset. In reality for most players, the decision to stay or leave normally comes down to one basic thing. Are you having fun. If you are then most people will keep playing. if you are not, then you are likely to point to a factor (customer service in this case) and leave.

During all of this the hope is that players will give feedback, both positive and negative, and the powers that be at ESO have to sort through it and make decisions. Example, one issue with customer service was the canned responses and making it obvious they were not even reading the tickets. For me that is worse then no response. In the end, simply ask if you are having fun, then decide on your subscription

crush83

You're not going to get quality customer service for $25k/year.

I think they probably outsourced customer service, and the suits vastly underestimated how much they'd need to budget for customer service. Typical of game publishers these days. They sell games on hype, and when they've milked it as much as they can, they'll roll out the F2P model with an aggressive cash shop.

Roechacca

crush83 wrote: »

You're not going to get quality customer service for $25k/year.

Where does the 25k a year thing come from ?

crush83

roechacca wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

You're not going to get quality customer service for $25k/year.

Where does the 25k a year thing come from ?

The first post...

BTOG46

roechacca wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

You're not going to get quality customer service for $25k/year.

Where does the 25k a year thing come from ?

Probably plucked out of thin air like most numbers quoted on the web.........

Roechacca

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

crush83

roechacca wrote: »

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

Subscription model can't compete with F2P. Think about it.

You play a subscription game for 9 months at $15/mo. That's $135.

A F2P game can get that out of players in 2-3 months easily. Instant gratification. That's why the industry is moving to the F2P model. They don't have to wait months to get the money they want. They also don't have to worry about keeping players interested for 9 months. If they can keep them interested long enough to get them frustrated enough to buy stuff from the store, they'll get that $135 quick.

Many times, F2P games will get way more than $135 out of each account in 2-3 month time.

gardenia.ren67ub17_ESO

The customer service was pretty bad earlier, but it seems they are making an effort to address some of the complaints made by the community and have taken some of what we have said to heart. Things have gotten better. They really have, compared to even two weeks ago.

Bromburak

I cannot really believe the OPs story because why would i wait that long and play through Vet content and then remember how bad everything is to unsub and complain about customer service?

Sorry, don't see any relation to customer service for the described frustration.

Totally makes no sense to me because if i would have severe issues with a game i couldnt and wouldnt play that far , i would quit instantly.

Roechacca

crush83 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

Subscription model can't compete with F2P. Think about it.

You play a subscription game for 9 months at $15/mo. That's $135.

A F2P game can get that out of players in 2-3 months easily. Instant gratification. That's why the industry is moving to the F2P model. They don't have to wait months to get the money they want. They also don't have to worry about keeping players interested for 9 months. If they can keep them interested long enough to get them frustrated enough to buy stuff from the store, they'll get that $135 quick.

Many times, F2P games will get way more than $135 out of each account in 2-3 month time.

I know you're right about the F2P money . I just hate the in game stores and the way it ruins a better MMO crafting market . Again , my opinion .

crush83

roechacca wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

Subscription model can't compete with F2P. Think about it.

You play a subscription game for 9 months at $15/mo. That's $135.

A F2P game can get that out of players in 2-3 months easily. Instant gratification. That's why the industry is moving to the F2P model. They don't have to wait months to get the money they want. They also don't have to worry about keeping players interested for 9 months. If they can keep them interested long enough to get them frustrated enough to buy stuff from the store, they'll get that $135 quick.

Many times, F2P games will get way more than $135 out of each account in 2-3 month time.

I know you're right about the F2P money . I just hate the in game stores and the way it ruins a better MMO crafting market . Again , my opinion .

They absolutely ruin the game. The game publishers don't care about that. The game publishers don't play the game. The game developers might play, but the publishers are running around thinking about the next game they can push out and bank on. They've got yachts to buy.

Roechacca

Bromburak wrote: »

I cannot really believe the OPs story because why would i wait that long and play through Vet content and then remember how bad everything is to unsub and complain about customer service?

Sorry, don't see any relation to customer service for the described frustration.

Totally makes no sense to me because if i would have severe issues with a game i couldnt and wouldnt play that far , i would quit instantly.

My friends made it to veteran rank not me . I never said that at all . I've been taking my time enjoying story lines and crafting .

thegamekittenub17_ESO

Customer Service means something totally different in companies of today, from let's say 15 years ago.

I try not to deal with customer service in general, because it will make me annoyed at the lack of it in this game. I'll speak my difference in forums and wait to see if something is done. If not, in a timely manner or until I get fed up I'll move on. Speak with the wallet and when friends ask I'll give them what I think of the game and their customer service.

I like a sub MMO. I'll even buy from their cash shop in a sub if there is something that appeals to me. If they go F2P, I will move on.

I think the greens in the forum should speak more in the forums. And they should be in direct contact with those that run the game and say this is an issue with forum users at the moment and might need looking into.

Some form of Customer Service should always be available to sooth over the angry customers. Word of mouth can be a company's/MMO's best friend or worst enemy.

It is amazing how gaming companies have lost their care and support of their customers over the years.

But like I said, after the few times I tried to reach customer service here, I just try not to use it. It is bad.

crush83

If you haven't seen The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, go see it today. It's a great movie.

If you have seen it, think about the role that Adam Scott played. He's that outside consultant that comes in to boost a company's bottom line. He doesn't care about the product. He only cares that the numbers look good while he's there. When he leaves, he could care less if the product falls apart. It's all about looking good in the short term.

That's game publishers today. They don't care about the product one bit. They only care about how much money they can squeeze out of a product before they move on to the next one and leave this one in shambles.

It's all about short bursts of high income, and then the bubble bursts as they are walking out the door.

Roechacca

crush83 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

Subscription model can't compete with F2P. Think about it.

You play a subscription game for 9 months at $15/mo. That's $135.

A F2P game can get that out of players in 2-3 months easily. Instant gratification. That's why the industry is moving to the F2P model. They don't have to wait months to get the money they want. They also don't have to worry about keeping players interested for 9 months. If they can keep them interested long enough to get them frustrated enough to buy stuff from the store, they'll get that $135 quick.

Many times, F2P games will get way more than $135 out of each account in 2-3 month time.

I know you're right about the F2P money . I just hate the in game stores and the way it ruins a better MMO crafting market . Again , my opinion .

They absolutely ruin the game. The game publishers don't care about that. The game publishers don't play the game. The game developers might play, but the publishers are running around thinking about the next game they can push out and bank on. They've got yachts to buy.

I hope that's not true here .

gunplummer

Customer service can always be improved, but that is a moot point. You want to see poor customer service call amazon sometime.

The game has been out for a month, name one mmo or single player game that was perfect out of the box. With allegedly 8 million playing a few leaving will not make a difference.

Don't forget their trying to roll out consoles next month at the same time as fix our bugs, glitches, and exploits so they're most likely spread pretty thin. I would give it 6 months, if there is still a bunch of unresolved issues then I would reconsider my sub. Besides for the amount of time, effort, and money ZOS put into this game if it dies TES franchise would probably fade into history.

I really like the game despite the problems so I am rooting for ZOS on this endeavor and hope it can go the distance it does have a lot of untapped potential.

crush83

gunplummer wrote: »

Besides for the amount of time, effort, and money ZOS put into this game if it dies TES franchise would probably fade into history.

You mean like the KOTOR franchise? Guess what happened there? That's right. EA changed the SWTOR model half way through development to be geared more towards a cash shop. It started out subscription based, and quickly failed (as EA knew it would). EA then had no resistance in pushing the cash shop out.

EA was the publisher. Bioware was the developer. In the end, no matter how much love the developer has for the game, the publisher wins.

Roechacca

gunplummer wrote: »

Customer service can always be improved, but that is a moot point. You want to see poor customer service call amazon sometime.

The game has been out for a month, name one mmo or single player game that was perfect out of the box. With allegedly 8 million playing a few leaving will not make a difference.

Don't forget their trying to roll out consoles next month at the same time as fix our bugs, glitches, and exploits so they're most likely spread pretty thin. I would give it 6 months, if there is still a bunch of unresolved issues then I would reconsider my sub. Besides for the amount of time, effort, and money ZOS put into this game if it dies TES franchise would probably fade into history.

I really like the game despite the problems so I am rooting for ZOS on this endeavor and hope it can go the distance it does have a lot of untapped potential.

I'm rooting for the game too . That's going to be incredibly tough dealing with the June console launches on top of whats already on the surgery table .

babylon

roechacca wrote: »

But how many people think this game if ran properly could beat out all the other ? I know it's been said before , but I'm saying it for the first time myself . This game seriously has Big MMO money capability with out the F2P crap model . I hope Zen starts running it as such .

I think it could go on to greatness. But it isn't just customer service that needs fixing...would be great to see the bugs fixed and also see a few game systems tweaked to be a bit more friendly to the players. Then I'm happy to wait as they roll out new features (Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and player housing most specifically).

liquid_wolf

Subscription models do not generate as much revenue as a F2P model simply because there are people will to pay more than $15 a month.

Hell... look at Archage and their $150 Founders Pack. http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

That is a F2P game, and people are more than willing to pay that much for it for an alpha. Where their characters WILL be wiped.

Subscriptions, however, are payed by people who simply enjoy the game. This is where they want to spend their time, and this is what they like to do for fun.

Some become vocal defenders, but the majority simply continue to play and pay for access.

With F2P, you are not tailoring the game to those that enjoy it... you tailor it to those who spend money in the shop. Instead of trying to keep a subscription, you are trying to entice another purchase.

The development and management begins to change drastically at that point. The game isn't the same anymore.

Regardless of how much money F2P might make a company, it doesn't bring about the same game, or the same type of player that a subscription model does.

With a subscription model you are developing a long-term relationship with your players and working towards a co-existence both sides benefit from. You might attract more players later on, and you might lose some... but you develop the way you want to.

With a F2P model you are simply providing services when people give you money. You don't expect them to stick around long, so only make yourself flashy and pretty enough to attract the next passerby and get what you can til they become disinterested.

thegamekittenub17_ESO

liquid_wolf wrote: »

Subscription models do not generate as much revenue as a F2P model simply because there are people will to pay more than $15 a month.

Hell... look at Archage and their $150 Founders Pack. http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

That is a F2P game, and people are more than willing to pay that much for it for an alpha. Where their characters WILL be wiped.

Subscriptions, however, are payed by people who simply enjoy the game. This is where they want to spend their time, and this is what they like to do for fun.

Some become vocal defenders, but the majority simply continue to play and pay for access.

With F2P, you are not tailoring the game to those that enjoy it... you tailor it to those who spend money in the shop. Instead of trying to keep a subscription, you are trying to entice another purchase.

The development and management begins to change drastically at that point. The game isn't the same anymore.

Regardless of how much money F2P might make a company, it doesn't bring about the same game, or the same type of player that a subscription model does.

With a subscription model you are developing a long-term relationship with your players and working towards a co-existence both sides benefit from. You might attract more players later on, and you might lose some... but you develop the way you want to.

With a F2P model you are simply providing services when people give you money. You don't expect them to stick around long, so only make yourself flashy and pretty enough to attract the next passerby and get what you can til they become disinterested.

"With a subscription model you are developing a long-term relationship with your players and working towards a co-existence both sides benefit from. You might attract more players later on, and you might lose some... but you develop the way you want to."


Well if this is true, then it would appear that F2P is on its way with this game?
It seems they are not trying for the long term relationship with their customers as of now. In my view this game punishes players more than it rewards them. Examples if you will: Rapid decay of gear, grouping, relog mini game, low loot system, low gold income, bugged quests, and very low customer service..etc.

Not sure about today, but about a year ago when going for support in WoW, I always got a live customer support person. I always had access with a wait time to a GM in game, and the forums were to get information and/or rage.

crush83

liquid_wolf wrote: »

The development and management begins to change drastically at that point. The game isn't the same anymore.

Pretty must spot on. You've probably experienced it plenty of times too.

Things that will be quickly adjusted for the cash shop when they are ready here are already evident:

• Research times will be increased, with the option to instantly finish research for $10 of real money.
• Extra bag and bank space will no longer be purchasable with gold. It will be purchased with real money only. Probably something like $5 per bag. Or, it will increase the more bags you buy.
• Only the slow mount (17k) will be buyable with cash. The other mounts will cost real money. Probably around $15-20 for the more "exotic" mounts.
• Obviously the Imperial Edition is already a "cash shop" type item. They will probably split that up into separate items you can buy.
• Access to the new content will cost $5 to unlock for each release (Craglorn = $5 for example).
• Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild access will cost $5-10 each.
• Anything cosmetic under the sun will cost $2.50-$5 in real cash. The more epic looking items will be from $20-50.
• Soul gems will be something you buy in packs only. 30 gems for $49.99.
• Legendary crafting materials will be severely diminished in frequency (< 0.001% chance). Your best chance will be buying a "Crafting Materials chest" with a "5% chance to get a Legendary material". Only $5 each. Oh yeah, it will take 10 Legendary materials to make a Legendary item.

Obviously, I'm pulling these dollar amounts out of my rear end. They will likely be even more aggressive, though.