Increase Magicka Cost of Bolt Escape

Oblongship

I am tired of sorcs being untouchable...

The second you finally get some CC on one they break out of it (cause they dont need stam for anything else) and then bolt escape away....

Lately if I am chasing someone down on my horse they literally dismount and spam b olt escape because it is that much faster.

They go from near me to barely visible within second.

I am not saying take it away, or nerf the range....just make it cost more so they can only do it a couple times.

leewells

Oblongship wrote: »

I am tired of sorcs being untouchable...

The second you finally get some CC on one they break out of it (cause they dont need stam for anything else) and then bolt escape away....

Lately if I am chasing someone down on my horse they literally dismount and spam b olt escape because it is that much faster.

They go from near me to barely visible within second.

I am not saying take it away, or nerf the range....just make it cost more so they can only do it a couple times.

Not needed, make it cost 10% of the sorc's max hp.

Warlunatic

Oblongship wrote: »

I am tired of sorcs being untouchable...

The second you finally get some CC on one they break out of it (cause they dont need stam for anything else) and then bolt escape away....

Lately if I am chasing someone down on my horse they literally dismount and spam b olt escape because it is that much faster.

They go from near me to barely visible within second.

I am not saying take it away, or nerf the range....just make it cost more so they can only do it a couple times.

Did you know how fragile a sorcerer is? they are running away because well with next to no armor are we meant to just die? untouchable yeah right haha and you want it so you can touch us with ease and kill us 2-4 hits? hahaha

skarvika

Seconded. Perhaps give them more skills to give them better combat survivability.

AngelofAwe

Warlunatic wrote: »

Did you know how fragile a sorcerer is? they are running away because well with next to no armor are we meant to just die? untouchable yeah right haha and you want it so you can touch us with ease and kill us 2-4 hits? hahaha

Most of the damage in PvP is skill damage, which is negated by spell resistance. And you have as much spell resistance as anybody.

If you have any intelligence whatsoever you'll use immovable on your skill bar too. then you are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

plus it uses stamina so you can still bolt escape.

LadyChaos

AngelofAwe wrote: »

Warlunatic wrote: »

Did you know how fragile a sorcerer is? they are running away because well with next to no armor are we meant to just die? untouchable yeah right haha and you want it so you can touch us with ease and kill us 2-4 hits? hahaha

Most of the damage in PvP is skill damage, which is negated by spell resistance. And you have as much spell resistance as anybody.

If you have any intelligence whatsoever you'll use immovable on your skill bar too. then you are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

plus it uses stamina so you can still bolt escape.

So the only way to play is your way? Heavy armor sorcerers don't need bolt as much nor is it cost efficient without the 7 piece light armor set.

And it's not even about the NEED to escape. It is a play-style, to hit hard and pick your battles wisely. Stun = die, for 7 piece light armor, which is what you need to be that level of DPS/Bolt. We want to wear what we want to wear, just like everyone else. We do not want to be forced into wearing heavy to survive.

Unless we get to direct DK to wear 7 pieces of light armor because they shouldn't tank so well, then you/anyone shouldn't feel entitled to determine what is cost efficient or a viable armor build for us.

Do you even know what it costs fully upgraded? Do you even know what other skills are on the bar? Do you even know anything about it other than "it's not fair I didn't get to kill someone who is built to pick their battles"

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

So the only way to play is in heavy armor? ...

Yet another example of a person who doesn't understand game mechanics. You don't need to wear heavy armor to use immovable. You can go full light and still use it!

LadyChaos

skarvika wrote: »

Seconded. Perhaps give them more skills to give them better combat survivability.

we're not asking nor accepting you to rebuild us. We are playing a viable as intended build for a role we chose. We traded survivability for DPS/Mobility, intentionally. Just like every other player traded something for heals, tank, their form of DPS etc...

LadyChaos

AngelofAwe wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

So the only way to play is in heavy armor? ...

Yet another example of a person who doesn't understand game mechanics. You don't need to wear heavy armor to use immovable. You can go full light and still use it!

I had already edited my comment before yo put this up... the point of it wasn't about wearing heavy armor as it was about the players who can't handle someone got away telling them how to play, how to build, etc.

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

I had already edited my comment before yo put this up

apparently not as i quoted it. bolt escape is broken and can be used together with other skills to become even more broken.

just like batswarm in that sense working together with mist form and healing you despite you being immune to regular heals while taking 75% less damage.

The problem isn't the possibility to escape, but the guarantee to escape. A competent sorcerer... or even a terrible sorcerer can get out of any situation by spamming 1 key and then stealth behind a rock.
you even become immune to DK chain pulls and all with the morph.

try stopping a blinking vampire sorcerer running with your scroll.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Just make it cost more mana per use

LadyChaos

AngelofAwe wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

I had already edited my comment before yo put this up

apparently not as i quoted it. bolt escape is broken and can be used together with other skills to become even more broken.

just like batswarm in that sense working together with mist form and healing you despite you being immune to regular heals while taking 75% less damage.

The problem isn't the possibility to escape, but the guarantee to escape. A competent sorcerer... or even a terrible sorcerer can get out of any situation by spamming 1 key and then stealth behind a rock.
you even become immune to DK chain pulls and all with the morph.

try stopping a blinking vampire sorcerer running with your scroll.

I have tried to stop a vamp running with my scroll just a few days ago, I posted the example in the forums here. I had him dead to rights without an escort, as I jumped him in stealth not 4 mist cast from the open hole in the wall.. You know what killed me... his DK friend who chained me over and over because I didn't have to power to both kill him AND keep ahead of the group. I got him to 6-10%, but I don't blame him, vamps or the DK that can sprint and cast chains because they don't use the same power pool.

---

You guys who think bolt is a win button do not know what it costs vs other class specialty lines...at VR10, what does fiery grip costs? What does talons costs? How much of your % of power pool is each cast?

Bolt is not broken, it is as intended. It costs us average between 10-20% power depending on build, passives and armor. That is a huge difference between the skilled and the not skilled. We do not ALWAYS get away. And we rarely get away if we COMMIT to the fight, unless we very much out-skill the opponent. Which is the real problem people have.

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

Must have been a really crappy vampire... unless you bolted after him of course. since bolt escape moves faster than a horse.
If you're chasing a vampire sorc with the manuever skill you cannot catch up from behind, you have to strike him from ahead.

His DK friend can't "chain you over and over" since the bolt escape morph makes you absorb chains. plus you become immune to the chains for a while after being hit by them once. not to mention bolt escape range is longer than the chains if you bolt escape away from him.

Fiery grip and talons both cost about 400 magicka each, slightly more I think. So... 25-35% depending on build?

I've seen sorcerers bolt 7-8 times, I've never seen a DK spam chains 7 times. Not that chains work on bolt escape as mentioned before though.

Sariias

A sorc chased me when I was on my horse for a minute straight and by spamming bolt not only did they catch up to me they had more than enough mana to spam crystal-knock-down-explosion-to-win until I was dead. They weren't even winded after that long chase.

LadyChaos

AngelofAwe wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

Must have been a really crappy vampire... unless you bolted after him of course. since bolt escape moves faster than a horse.
If you're chasing a vampire sorc with the manuever skill you cannot catch up from behind, you have to strike him from ahead.

His DK friend can't "chain you over and over" since the bolt escape morph makes you absorb chains. plus you become immune to the chains for a while after being hit by them once. not to mention bolt escape range is longer than the chains if you bolt escape away from him.

Fiery grip and talons both cost about 400 magicka each, slightly more I think. So... 25-35% depending on build?

I've seen sorcerers bolt 7-8 times, I've never seen a DK spam chains 7 times. Not that chains work on bolt escape as mentioned before though.

I, the bolt "escaper" with the stealth advantage was killed mostly because of the DK chains, and yes they can chain us. Absorb projectiles doesn't work the way you think it does.

Even in the face of hard examples, the response is "no way that doesn't happen". You guys who cannot handle the one that got away wont hear anything else.

And before wearing 7 pieces of light armor and other passive passive bolt is similar to that value cost. The majority of what makes it cost efficient is the 7 piece light armor, which is again the factor of we trade armor for dps/mobility (in this case). Lightx7 takes off ~100-150 mag cost. So if you wore light armor not heavy you would be similarly cost efficient. If your complaint is with light armor there's a much bigger anger pool for you to consider.

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

Absorb projectile makes my chains hit the blue ball you leave behind when bolting. even if I spam my chains after a sorcerer (I've tried) it doesn't hit them.

I am a former emperor of my campaign and have played PvP more or less exclusively since the first week. I know how abilities work and I know what's broken.

Talons among my own skills is another broken ability since you can spam it even on CC immune targets.

Shield bash is broken since it deals more damage than heavy attacks faster than light attacks.

And your bolt escape is another.

Things are broken in this game and must be fixed. Hopefully they will soon.

Light armor isn't a drawback. If I hadn't spent so much on my gear I would instantly switch to light armor myself since it's clearly the best. Not just because of the spell cost reduction but because anybody in light armor can get more armor and spell resistance than a tank in heavy armor PLUS CC immunity with a single skill that can be kept up and running, especially if your build doesn't use stamina.

NordJitsu

Please decrease the cost of Bolt Escape to make up for the reduced regen.

The nerf to this skill at the end of the Beta was harsh.

Sorcerers need Bolt Escape because they lack self healing and survivability. This skill is required for high damage high mobility specs.

Honestly, being able to cast it 10 times in succession isn't enough.

Buff Bolt Escape.

(JK, but the skill is fine as is. If you're having issues with it, you should try CC'ing your target. HINT: All CC works against them, even mid bolt.)

LadyChaos

@AngelofAwe‌

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you are not calling me an outright liar...

I not only died to being chained 2ce in a row the other day (example discussion) I have been chained before. The projectile block is one of our biggest complaints as bolt users. Many of us either think it's bugged or not clear as to exactly what it's supposed to block, or if it is directional. That was not the first time I have been chained while bolting.

Unless you are willing to play in full light it is difficult to take the argument that light is best armor when you admit you don't use it...No one would be wearing any of the other armor types if they didn't have their own trade offs to offer.

Semel

1) The cost is already high

2) After any bolt escape cast magicka regeneration DOESN'T WORK FOR 5 sec.

So, no thank you. STFU & l2p

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt that sorcerer is the only class you've properly played and you've simply never bothered to test how the abilities work or what the other classes are like.

I could look through hours of my streaming material and simply show you that my chains don't connect to sorcerers a single time no matter how many times I cast it on them bolting.

LadyChaos

AngelofAwe wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt that sorcerer is the only class you've properly played and you've simply never bothered to test how the abilities work or what the other classes are like.

I could look through hours of my streaming material and simply show you that my chains don't connect to sorcerers a single time no matter how many times I cast it on them bolting.

There's not much that is confused for chains pulling you back, then claws of death come from the ground, bolt, chains pull you back, and done. Did devs just make some new form of pull back and ninja it in?

a) you ASSUMED I had the projectile morph, before the discussion even started. So no I don't think you've never been able to chain a bolt ever, because only 1 morph blocks projectiles, the other 2 make no claims to block projectiles.

b) you ASSUMED it was still up when I was chained. You didn't inquire to any of the other factors involved, only "no way this can happen, because I was once an emperor, and am infallible".

While I tried to give you your due respect as an experienced player, your entire platform is: Sorcerers lie, You are incapable of being mistaken or being over-presumptuous, and You "think" you know what chains/talons cost, but cant be bothered to look it up for us, when we take the time to give you accurate numbers for personal comparison...

of ALL the broken things you quote, you cannot fathom something doesn't work when someone else puts it forward? You genuinely feel feedback from someone who gives an example specific to the question you asked is just making it all up... this is denial, not infallibility. You asked a rhetorical question you didn't think I would have a response to. When I did you claim I lie... even though I posted the information on this forum days ago...

I know how much I escaped in 30s, in 40s, and VR they are significantly different stats, because of the passives and other abilities opening up.

"it's not fair they got away"... is all I can pull from this thread.

Zintair

Sorcs are fine. The only nerf needed on Bolt Escape is the ability to carry the scroll with it. No mist form or Bolt Escape scroll carrying.

That is all.

thefreezingvoid

Bolt escape isn't broken. There is nothing wrong with a class having an escape ability.

Bolt escape is just fine, because unless they are chugging magicka potions like mad, they aren't going to have the magicka pool or regen to sustain it indefinitely, and even then, the potion will only give em 1 extra bolt escape.
Bold escape costs 209 magicka and my regen is capped at 80 magicka per second. I can bolt escape 9 times in a row, before having to wait 3 seconds between bolt escapes.

As for people complaining about bolt escaping scroll runners, that is definitely broken, as one should not be able to teleport or benefit from speed increasing buffs.

This is clear, by the fact you can not mount while carrying it. Why else would they add the restriction, if not to control the speed at which the scroll can move?

Mist form definitely needs a nerf though. As it makes you untargettable, immune to non-rooting CC, reduces all incoming damage by 75%, and used next to no magicka, allowing for it be used over and over.

Just the other night I had 10 people chasing me in mist form for close to 20 minutes before I finally got bored and just left. The entire time I was teasing em by running through em, juking em around rocks and tree's. They did almost kill me once or twice, with a dark talon, but I broke it and continued to tease them.

I've also had instances where 5 people were beating on me in a dark talon spam. Took em 2 minutes to kill me, due to the fact that while in mist form I get 75% reduced damage, and then while below 30% health I get increased mitigation, meaning that while I was sitting at basically 1% health, I was regenerating health (15 health per second) than they could actually do to me with AoE's. It was a bit sad. Finally someone got a well times silver bolt and stopped it.

Varivox9

Sorc already has a ton of survivability in the form of lightning armour. Bolt escape is, imo, perfectly fine EXCEPT that it is a guaranteed escape. No skill should allow you to 100% get away. In my experience, once a sorc uses Bolt, you may as well kiss that kill goodbye. No one should have a 100% guaranteed escape with no hope of ever being caught. Add on a stacking snare for every use of it, increase mana cost, do SOMETHING so that the sorc isn't the only class with an unlimited number of get out of jail free cards.

It isn't that they have a good escape ability, it's that they have the perfect escape ability.

Vaiku

If not a magicka increase, some sort of change to it should be done. Cooldown, lowered range, something.

@thefreezingvoid Whether or not mist form is broken doesn't change the fact that bolt escape also requires changes. 9 times is way more then enough. No other class has the capability to just dip out like they do.

Reavan

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Just make it cost more mana per use

So simple yet you win the prize!
2nd bolt double cost.
3rd bolt triple cost
Etc

Mott

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Just make it cost more mana per use

I came here to suggest something similar. For those of you that have played league of legends you are probably familiar with the cost increase on Kassadin's Rift Walk. Each use within a small window costs more magic and deals more damage, up to a cap. I think a similar change to bolt escape (each time it is used it costs X more magic, up to a cap) would be effective at preventing spamming specifically. If sorcerers used 2-3 bolt escapes at a time it would be much more manageable, but as it is I've seen people use it just to get from point A to point B because it is faster than a horse and easy to spam with cost reduction and spells like equilibrium.

AngelofAwe

LadyChaos wrote: »

.

You really like your walls of text.

I haven't assumed a thing and my arguments have not been from "i was an emperor" but "i have a LOT of PvP experience". I've lived in Cyrodiil and chains NEVER work on a sorc that is intelligent enough to pick the more OP morph. If you didn't, that's your problem but it doesn't change that the skill is broken.

You can't talon a sorcerer because you can simply bolt out of it and chains have the CC cooldown that makes it impossible to spam.
If you get chained within 5 seconds of bolting then I have no clue what you're doing. Most sorcerers would have bolted 3 more times before that.

I can't give you the cost of talons because of different passives and spell cost reductions I have, is that so hard to understand? Want me to reset my skills to find out? It's over

I have no clue what you're on about in the end of your post, just random rambling where I can't even pick up on any content.

Asava

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

A sorc chased me when I was on my horse for a minute straight and by spamming bolt not only did they catch up to me they had more than enough mana to spam crystal-knock-down-explosion-to-win until I was dead. They weren't even winded after that long chase.

That may of been me if you were playing AB US yesterday as a non AD player. I charged quite a few solo's with it yesterday for fun. Usually I reserve it to jump vamps in mist form but there were some juicy targets out there when I was all by myself.

Oblongship

Warlunatic wrote: »

Oblongship wrote: »

I am tired of sorcs being untouchable...

The second you finally get some CC on one they break out of it (cause they dont need stam for anything else) and then bolt escape away....

Lately if I am chasing someone down on my horse they literally dismount and spam b olt escape because it is that much faster.

They go from near me to barely visible within second.

I am not saying take it away, or nerf the range....just make it cost more so they can only do it a couple times.

Did you know how fragile a sorcerer is? they are running away because well with next to no armor are we meant to just die? untouchable yeah right haha and you want it so you can touch us with ease and kill us 2-4 hits? hahaha

So leave it where they can spam 1 skill 7 - 10 times and be untouchable since they can use mist form and that?

Just bolt escape alone they are melee to out of site in seconds....


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skarvika

LadyChaos wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

Seconded. Perhaps give them more skills to give them better combat survivability.

we're not asking nor accepting you to rebuild us. We are playing a viable as intended build for a role we chose. We traded survivability for DPS/Mobility, intentionally. Just like every other player traded something for heals, tank, their form of DPS etc...

Most pvp mages I've noticed seem to focus on healing, which can't be done if you have to run halfway across the map any time someone from another faction comes your way. Wasn't aware people liked having to run away at the first sign of actually having to engage in combat...