Suggestions for when ESO goes "Free to Play"

Haltus_Kain

Or more specifically, "Buy to Play", which is usually what folks mean when they say F2P.

Anywho, this thread is obviously under the assumption that ESO will eventually become sub-free. Please don't water it down with a flame war about whether or not you think that will actually happen - the focus is to make ESO as desirable and profitable a product as possible once they transition to that business model, so if your comment isn't on topic, keep it to your self.

[/disclaimer]

I can't speak for anyone's wallet but my own, so I'm going to cite the F2P/B2P models I've personally been exposed to, and how much I've invested into them. This is obviously as subjective as it gets (when I say things like "the most successful" I'm talking about how much money I've personally spent), so please share your own experience, and whether or not you agree with mine (and why, please ).


So, I'm gonna start with an example of what NOT to do: Starwars The Old Republic. SWTOR's business model is almost offensive. Core game features like THE FREAKING USER INTERFACE are blocked by pay gates, with things like having to purchase action bars. You can't equip gear higher than a certain quality level; everything from space missions to warzones have weekly caps that you need to buy your way out of. You can't even take your damn helmet off without paying for the toggle to be activated. It's like the game is stuck behind a curtain that you have to pay, one square inch at a time, for it to be removed. To hell with that! I've invested exactly $0.00 into SWTOR since they've gone sub-free, and I have zero desire to revisit that game and its insulting experience.

Moving on to better, but not necessarily ideal: Lord of the Rings Online. LotRO's experience starts out very restricted, but understandably so, since there's no purchase price: anyone can make an account and start playing completely for free to get a kind of preview of the game, but with that kind of freedom comes openness to abuse, such as gold spammers making an account, doing their thing until banned, making another, and so on. Hence the restrictions. These are pretty much all lifted once you make ANY cash purchase, since that pretty well proves you intend to actually play the game. From there, a fair amount of content is opened up, but you have to pretty much pay to unlock anything outside the starting zones. Unfortunately, the starting zones aren't terribly exciting, and didn't really leave me wanting to invest in more, so that's where my LotRO experience stopped. I think I spent around $10.00 on LotRO to make that initial purchase, but was never tempted to pay any more after that.

The best model I've seen, and the one I hope ESO comes to follow, is that of Guild Wars 2. GW2 has an initial box price, much like ESO, but once that's done, the player has access to 100% of the game, and will never feel coerced into having to pay again. However, there is an in-game cash store with all kinds of optional stuff. Some of it is arguably "buy to win" such as xp boosts and buffs, but the vast majority of it is cosmetic stuff and fun-but-useless items. Not being forced to whip out the wallet makes a DRASTIC difference in my desire to do just that. I've spent around $50.00 so far on GW2's in game store, mostly on cosmetic stuff, but also a few account upgrades like character slots.



Anyway, ESO is rapidly earning a reputation as being a cash grab, with a "**** the players!" business philosophy. You (Bethesda/Zenimax) will want to put an end to that sentiment, like ASAP, but especially once you go F2P/B2P. If the player feels insulted, s/he is not going to want to support your business.


That's all!

Please share your thoughts, but remember to keep them on topic, and keep the flames to a minimum!


- Hal

Nooblet

The second it goes f2p is the second I unsub and never play again... just like rift.

How about you just play it how it is.. or don't... speculating on it becoming f2p does nothing positive.

It is NOT f2p, and this thread is already off topic.

RedTalon

There really is no good free to play model, whatever helps them get new content out is best in my view.

darkkterror_ESO

I'll probably stop playing ESO should it ever go F2P, so I'm not going to bother speculating on how ZOS should go about implementing a F2P model.

AlliN

My guess, a year.

I wanted it to succeed, I hoped it will target mature audience - and after I saw elitist and trolls alike ridden forums, overal idiocy of people that came to play it I think I'm just tired. I know people of my age are a minority in mmos anyways, but really, this got to a sad point.

Condoning exploits, xp abuses, item duping, gold buying, "innocent until caught" mentality, "whatever goes, goes" mentality. I'm to old for that ***. I'm to old for entitled population.

I'm not even worried about bugs and bots - those can be fixed. People mentality is beyond redemption, though.

And I would love ESO to thrive.

Malediktus

I hope it never goes f2p. That model ruins any game and usually ends up being more expensive than monthly sub, too (if you want to enjoy every part of the game)

I personally hate GW2s model. GW2 is all about cosmetical progression, yet they put like 80% of all new skins into their cash shop. Its pay to win in that aspect, because cosmetics = win in GW2.

Laura

AlliN wrote: »

My guess, a year.

I wanted it to succeed, I hoped it will target mature audience - and after I saw elitist and trolls alike ridden forums, overal idiocy of people that came to play it I think I'm just tired. I know people of my age are a minority in mmos anyways, but really, this got to a sad point.

Condoning exploits, xp abuses, item duping, gold buying, "innocent until caught" mentality, "whatever goes, goes" mentality. I'm to old for that ***. I'm to old for entitled population.

I'm not even worried about bugs and bots - those can be fixed. People mentality is beyond redemption, though.

And I would love ESO to thrive.

I highly recommend avoiding ANY gaming (especially MMO) forums if you are looking for mature people with an IQ above potato.

Soloeus

I prefer a model that has a Free Account that only lets you access entry areas.

For Ebonheart Pact:

1. Coldharbour Tutorial.
2. Bleakrock Isle.
3. Bal Foyen.

That is it. A level cap of 15 is fine, and a hard cap on skills of 18. No ability to whisper, upgrade backpacks or bank slots or buy mounts.

Now, then a Subscription would enable the entire game. For a player who has their subscription run out, they will be limited to using characters and zones that meet the criteria of a Free Account.

If that is too strict, then...

For Ebonheart Pact:

1. Coldharbour Tutorial.
2. Bleakrock Isle.
3. Bal Foyen.
4. Stonefalls.
5. Cyrodil.

Level is limited to 20, all skills limited to 30. No skills may be morphed. Alliance War, World, and Guilds skill lines will be disabled. Backpack will have 50 slots, Bank will have 50 slots. May not use Gold to upgrade Backpack or Bank, but may use microtransactions.

The concept is that free players will have clear disadvantages over paying subscribers.

Micro Transactions:

1. Storage Space in Bags and Bank. $5.00 USD for 100 extra slots is fair.
2. Respec/Reskill. $1.00 USD is fair.
3. Game Time Token. For the cost of one month subscription, you get a redeemable token in the game that once used in game adds 30 days Premium Account time to your account. This item can be traded with other players, and sold at auction houses.

I do not want this game to go Free to Play because that means Pay To Win. However I am not entirely opposed to a Limited Free Account uprading to Premium Account.

Laura

@Soloeus

If I HAD to deal with a free to play model that would be the one I wanted.

AlliN

Imagine the number of bots and spammers then. Also, paying real money for respec? No, thank You.

Haltus_Kain

@Soloeus

In the spirit of making the product as profitable as possible, I would disagree with you.

What you're describing is very much "Pay to win" which is what ruins F2P. I would much, much prefer a model akin to GW2's, and so would my wallet.

reggielee

once a game goes f2p they are under extreme pressure from the financiers to meet revenue expectations. add in greed from directors who want a good annual return on their docket and you will see increasingly obstructive and intrusive marketing for every aspect of the game.

I am done with f2p models, tho many have started with good ideals like you propose they all end up being nickel and dimed to death and filled with rng boxes for leet gear.

its early days to start commenting on this being a sure f2p game in the future. I hope it makes it as they envisioned it

Osi

Haltus_Kain wrote: »

...the focus is to make ESO as desirable and profitable a product as possible once they transition to that business model, so if your comment isn't on topic, keep it to your self.

The transition to that business model is NOT going to happen, therefore the topic of discussion of this thread is moot.

I dare say a large number... no, a majority of players prefer a sub-model, where you don't have to take your wallet out to get something that catches your eye. You pay each month, you get access to everything. They don't charge $1, 30 times a month to get a bunch of little things, cosmetic, tangible benefit, or otherwise.

AlliN

The transition to that business model is NOT going to happen, therefore the topic of discussion of this thread is moot.

And you say that, becasue you are Budda Ascended, ZEN CEO and Doctor Manhattan in one person. Numerous MMO's with much better franchises, and much better resources said they will never go F2P. And they did.

For money.

Wake up.

I dare say a large number... no, a majority of players prefer a sub-model,

And yes, lately, what PLAYERS want was always on minds of those gold hearted, angelic developers and their supervisors - across all the development projets that wend down the drain because of their owner's greed. All they wanted, is to make it as PLAYERS want.

You pay each month, you get access to everything.

Yeah like all the playable races...oh wait...

LimeFox

Please don't water it down with a flame war about whether or not you think that will actually happen - the focus is to make ESO as desirable and profitable a product as possible once they transition to that business model, so if your comment isn't on topic, keep it to your self.

Basically, the post reads "I know it's eventually going to go to F2P, what would you like to see?" and anyone who disagrees is trolling. Really? "Once they transition" implies you know they will, and either sit in on board meetings or can see the future. They may, they may not. But don't ask for opinions from people with such an implicit bias in your opening remarks. It smacks of, "I know I'm right, back me up guys." You won't get that on a forum. Some will disagree, some won't.

I hope they take the FF14ARR approach to F2P, in which the company president says, "No, never, we'll shut the game down first." I've tried "F2P" games, and every single one of them has pried more cash out of my wallet than the subscription models. The reason people want to see it go F2P is they feel the hand reaching into their wallet less when it's 2 bucks at a time, rather than $14.99 a month.

Think about all the people F2P enables too - gold-sellers, bots, spammers, griefers, trolls... a lot of those people will still be in a subscription model, but significantly less so. I mean shoot - the second you tell the average hard-up college student that they can make as many free accounts as they want to to farm gold, it won't be just the major "businesses" trying to do it. Now when gold farmers get banned, it doesn't cost them anything to replace the account? SOLD. And don't tell me you can ban IP accounts. You can fake those so easily now it's a laughable security measure against even script kiddie level hackers.

Osi

LimeFox wrote: »

Basically, the post reads "I know it's eventually going to go to F2P, what would you like to see?" and anyone who disagrees is trolling.

Exactly. That is why OP is the troll here.

Koltiros1005b14a_ESO

F2P is a deathwish, this isn't SWTOR, it is deserving of a monthly sub and I don't mind paying it, if we lose some jack asses because 15 bucks a month is too rich for their blood, then so be it, I pay at least 20 a week for gas, so really people? Also F2P means that children will be entering Tamriel in even greater numbers right now they at least have to ask mommy and daddy for the credit card. F2P is not something I want for this game if Blizzard can bleed its customers for 10 years then surely Zenimax has a fighting chance.

Firmament

darkkterror_ESO wrote: »

I'll probably stop playing ESO should it ever go F2P, so I'm not going to bother speculating on how ZOS should go about implementing a F2P model.

+1

Haltus_Kain

RedTalon wrote: »

There really is no good free to play model, whatever helps them get new content out is best in my view.

Whatever makes them the most cash is what will get the content out, which is what this thread is to discuss.

...if you can actually pick out the discussion between all the trolls.

Getorix

Haltus_Kain wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

There really is no good free to play model, whatever helps them get new content out is best in my view.

Whatever makes them the most cash is what will get the content out, which is what this thread is to discuss.

...if you can actually pick out the discussion between all the trolls.

Item shops make f2p games the most money, and so then it gets the most content. Which is why I agree with the guy you quoted, there is no "good" f2p model.

Im not too worried about this game going f2p, if it does ill just leave. I wont go through another swtor, waiting for the devs to fix what drove everyone off in the first place while they instead cram the game full of item shop garbage and water the gameplay down to appeal to the wall lickers that spend hundreds of dollars a month on lottery boxes.

Haltus_Kain

Getorix wrote: »

Haltus_Kain wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

There really is no good free to play model, whatever helps them get new content out is best in my view.

Whatever makes them the most cash is what will get the content out, which is what this thread is to discuss.

...if you can actually pick out the discussion between all the trolls.

Item shops make f2p games the most money, and so then it gets the most content. Which is why I agree with the guy you quoted, there is no "good" f2p model.

Im not too worried about this game going f2p, if it does ill just leave. I wont go through another swtor, waiting for the devs to fix what drove everyone off in the first place while they instead cram the game full of item shop garbage and water the gameplay down to appeal to the wall lickers that spend hundreds of dollars a month on lottery boxes.

Well, again, I direct you to GW2's model. No nickel-and-dime-ing, none of those stupid "mystery boxes" (I ABSOLUTELY second your hatred for that crap). I don't know what their monthly income is relative to the other games, but I know they've made more from me than BS like SWTOR.

AND GW2 is pushing new content CONSTANTLY, which tells me they're making a pretty good profit... unless they have programmer-slaves. :P