Turelus' First Rant: Where Are the GM/Dev's?

Turelus

So ESO has finally broken me, and it was of all things the bots in the public dungeons.
Today I found I had no level 40 soul gems so I figured I'd head to a public dungeon kill a few bosses then move on, but no it was impossible to tag the boss and get an loot and to make the situation worse the number of dead boss bodies fell onto the Skyshard meaning I couldn't see it to claim it.

I think my biggest frustration with all of this has been the lack of any response from the management or development of the game. Maybe I am entitled coming from EVE Online where we sit and debate game mechanics with Devs, we speak with the GM/Dev/Management via twitter having laughs or pointing out issues.

For those of you who have never played EVE Online here are their forums https://forums.eveonline.com/ you'll notice the easy structured layout, the tags marking which threads Developers or GM staff have posted in (something ZOS have said they're working on)

Here is their developer tracker, notice how it's easy to read (something ZOS are again apparently working on) but more than that noticed how the posts are Developers getting involved with the community, listening to feedback and taking time to post ideas or acknowledge issues.

From what I managed to follow during development and read on the forums during beta I really had hopes for the game to be another MMO where both the community and the developers worked together to make something fantastic, instead since release it seems more like the actual development team are ignoring the community entirely and only a handful of customer service or forums moderators are posting.

What happened to Matt Firor, Nick Konkle, Paul Sage, Brian Wheeler and others who were so present during development and beta? Seeing these people present on the forums or twitter posting updates, taking five or ten minutes to answer a question or make an official statement. The lead designers for each area of the game could make a pinned thread asking for constructive feedback on a feature.

Lastly does the game even have in-game GM staff or a security team handling the wildly out of control botting, exploiting and gold selling. It seems our tickets go through to an outsourced customer service centre only to take days before action is taken on them.
We want in-game GM teams and security at ZOS we can send direct reports to so these issues are handled fast and effectively.
If that's already what's happening let us know that, more information is better than nothing, but as others have said time and time again saying nothing and hiding is only hurting the game for you and us.

*sigh* I really hope this manages to make some difference, that maybe ZOS can see they can be a great company like CCP and not just another sub-par money milking MMO joke.

Koltiros1005b14a_ESO

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82424/recent-actions-against-exploiters-appealing-a-ban#latest

They have people handling the gold sellers and I would expect to see little to no bots in the near future.

Turelus

I'm not entirely sure how that link relates to what I am saying in the thread.

They are handling these bots it seems bug in waves with almost a week between each banning spree, that was only one of my issues though.

What I really am annoyed about is how there seems to be no solid talk from anyone but the community team, that Developers and GM staff don't really seem to have any active presence on the forums or in the game.

Koltiros1005b14a_ESO

It's far too early for them to actively solve debates in the community, they likely simply don't have the numbers with the amount of people working on the actual game, which is the priority. That'd be my guess.

Nordak

Would like to see real evidence, The bots got worse after that announcement.

WitchAngel

Don't forget that devs get laid off at launch. Some of those people you named, might not be working for ZoS anymore.

As for CCP. They have also been more closed up in their past. But they learned that being open with their player base, was a much better way of controlling damage, than ignoring the playerbase.

Every time EVE is patched, you get full patch notes. They will let you know what they changed, all of it, in details, not just as a summary.

That other developer teams aren't inspired by what CCP is doing, is a mystery to me.

RunAway

WitchAngel wrote: »

Don't forget that devs get laid off at launch. Some of those people you named, might not be working for ZoS anymore.

As for CCP. They have also been more closed up in their past. But they learned that being open with their player base, was a much better way of controlling damage, than ignoring the playerbase.

Every time EVE is patched, you get full patch notes. They will let you know what they changed, all of it, in details, not just as a summary.

That other developer teams aren't inspired by what CCP is doing, is a mystery to me.

Actually, Zenimax still have many, many jobs available for Elder Scrolls Online. I doubt they fired people just to re hire others in the same place. You can check on the official Zenimax website.

codyyoungnub18_ESO

If I ever made game I would have no problem posting on the site about plans/meetings etc true. But I would never ever rely on the customer for any type of decision about the product forums or otherwise. The customer is always right is a BS statement and you will provide a far better product going with the customer doesn't know what the customer wants.

You give in and make a "customers" game you get WoW congratulations it's already out there and doing well, but I did not want to play customer's made game as I find them awful so I came here, I wanted to play Zen's (well really was hoping Bethesda's but shh).

Edit: As in almost every idea I have read on these forums wanting to change something is just awful and I hope they don't listen. And I wish they would stop nerfing content because it's too hard, those upset me.

Turelus

I agree WitchAngel, now CCP have their flaws but they really are well above other development companies in how they develop their game and engage their players.
It does seem from the outside right now that ZOS went with the ways of doing as little effort as they could in regards to their customer service and information. I would love to see a dedicated section of the website for patch notes rather than the short forums posts.

RunAway

codyyoungnub18_ESO wrote: »

If I ever made game I would have no problem posting on the site about plans/meetings etc true. But I would never ever rely on the customer for any type of decision about the product forums or otherwise. The customer is always right is a BS statement and you will provide a far better product going with the customer doesn't know what the customer wants.

You give in and make a "customers" game you get WoW congratulations it's already out there and doing well, but I did not want to play customer's made game as I find them awful so I came here, I wanted to play Zen's (well really was hoping Bethesda's but shh).

Edit: As in almost every idea I have read on these forums wanting to change something is just awful and I hope they don't listen.

To use an analogy, what you're saying is to do what Microsoft did with the XBOX One? Ignoring your fan base and being several millions sold units down to the competition? OK...

Turelus

codyyoungnub18_ESO wrote: »

If I ever made game I would have no problem posting on the site about plans/meetings etc true. But I would never ever rely on the customer for any type of decision about the product forums or otherwise. The customer is always right is a BS statement and you will provide a far better product going with the customer doesn't know what the customer wants.

You give in and make a "customers" game you get WoW congratulations it's already out there and doing well, but I did not want to play customer's made game as I find them awful so I came here, I wanted to play Zen's (well really was hoping Bethesda's but shh).

I fully agree never ever let your customers design you game for you, but they're the ones playing more than you as a developer and quite often things they want which are not going to outright change your vision of the game can be a great resource.

Take for example a thread on UI improvements, if ZOS had a pinned thread about Inventory for example and how to improve the UI for it I'm sure they would get a vast amount of feedback and could take the ideas which don't change the game outside of their vision but improve it for the players.

Using EVE Online again when they do their ship balance they lay out the ideas then take in the swaths of feedback and testing from players and make changed if they feel the feedback is working well for them.

WitchAngel

RunAway wrote: »

WitchAngel wrote: »

Don't forget that devs get laid off at launch. Some of those people you named, might not be working for ZoS anymore.

As for CCP. They have also been more closed up in their past. But they learned that being open with their player base, was a much better way of controlling damage, than ignoring the playerbase.

Every time EVE is patched, you get full patch notes. They will let you know what they changed, all of it, in details, not just as a summary.

That other developer teams aren't inspired by what CCP is doing, is a mystery to me.

Actually, Zenimax still have many, many jobs available for Elder Scrolls Online. I doubt they fired people just to re hire others in the same place. You can check on the official Zenimax website.

Everyone has their own qualifications. IE. some get laid off because you don't need their skills anymore, others get hired, because you need more people with that particular skill.

epoling

It's possible that the people you named are all just too busy with all the launch time issues to jump on the forums. I would rather have the devs doing their jobs than telling me what they would be doing if they weren't posting.

Turelus

epoling wrote: »

It's possible that the people you named are all just too busy with all the launch time issues to jump on the forums. I would rather have the devs doing their jobs than telling me what they would be doing if they weren't posting.

Well yes I want them working as well but most of the names I mentioned AFAIK are not actually coders but people organising and leading development of those areas. Matt Firor being the face of ESO during most of development though I would have expected to have more posting and engaging with the community, IIRC he had some really nice pinned topics during beta which addressed everyone, now not even a "welcome to launch day" from him.

Laerrus

We'll see how things work out over the coming months, to include the PS4 and XBOX launches.

At this point, I am uncertain how Zenimax is going to manage a game across multiple platforms, the demands of each are very different from each other. I just hope that they do not spread themselves too thin in the process. I can almost see one of the platforms, be it console or PC, getting kicked to the curb within the year.

I don't see a very big component of the console market going for a sub, considering how much money they already spend on new games each month.

Let's hope the PC version will survive and develop... This will only happen if corporate Zenimax get's over their case of the H.U.B. and customers don't crucify it first.

brown60970ub17_ESO

I have ran into a few quests where you have to defeat a boss and the bots are so compacted over where the boss spawns that you can't even see what you are trying to get a hit in on. So ya, they are taking the fun out of some points of the game. I don't care about other MMO games because I don't play them. I don't care what problems are here and there because it doesn't concern me. I paid good money to play ESO and will continue to pay good money to keep playing so this issue of bots sitting in on areas and cheating players of gameplay experience is ridiculous. If someone reading this has a bot set up and is cheating then I'll tell ya to your face there is no excuse for it and it is wrong. Don't like my opinion then tough. I hope they find a way to ban all bot users and if they are selling exp or gold then they should be charged and fined.

zulikab14_ESO

With the launch of the console versions this will get worse. Imagine when that group hits theses forums and support systems.

I can say without any doubt that the framework of these forums are the worst I have seen for anything online. Searches do not work, the Dev tracker does not track all ZOS posts and what is there is shown in the tracker is a patchwork blanket with no representation of time posted or even language division - I could go on and on. Communication is a big deal in this business and they have not done themselves any favors by picking this framework. Actually it seems like they looked for the package that would be most difficult to manage and frustrating for their users. It's 2014 and we forgot how to make a decent forum, pfft! No one that has ever had to use/manage a forum would pick this.

I think the ZOS labeled people on these forums are doing a good job in their responses - the ones I have seen anyway. I just wish there was a way to see them all. I wish there were more ZOS responses, but maybe there are and I am just not seeing them. I agree that the big names (Matt, etc) should be seen on the forums more too, but who knows maybe they are posting, but I cannot see them.

I think the same thing about their CRM system -which I investigated to make sure I was not getting spearfished via a canned support email. Oracle, enough said.

They have cruddy systems that are making their good support people look like they are not performing up to par. In reality the support people I have dealt with have been awesome. They may be big and very robust systems, but that only means they can do bad things faster and with more ferocity -like banning the accounts in error. Bad systems can make it easy to do bad things with good intentions and very hard to implement what you actually want to do.

In short, from what I have seen: ZOS customer interface people yay! Customer interface systems and those who chose them boo!

edit: and ya I CCPs communication environment has been the deciding factor for me subbing to Eve more than once.

Turelus

Well it seems Matt went and posted making my entire rant seem silly... GG Matt. :P

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85974/state-of-the-game-address