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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/696147/playstation-5-patch-error-issue
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/696147/playstation-5-patch-error-issue
A Plea for Perspective from a Veteran Player
Gerwulf67
✭✭✭
Revised Post
After reading the comments on my original post, which is below, I see in trying to be diplomatic I have failed to make the point I was seeking to make. So, here is the straight forward, undiplomatic translation:
I love ESO, and while it is far from perfect, I believe it is the best MMO currently available.
I also understand the frustration players feel when encountering issues which have been around since the beginning of the game; for me it's storage and item limits where housing is concerned.
I agree forums such as this one are important in that they allow those interacting with the game on a daily basis a place to voice their opinions and bring bugs, errors, or cumbersome processes to the attention of the developers.
All that said, subscribing to ESO+ or purchasing the various Chapters and DLCs give you no right to be a butthole or make personal attacks against the people of Bethesda. The type of cutting sarcasm, ranting, and ill will I read in some posts simply is unnecessary and counter productive.
That's all. It's that simple. Disagree, complain, and suggest, but don't be a tool.
Original Post
A couple of things to understand when reading this post ...
1) I have nothing to gain from posting this. I am not a streamer or content creator. I have never been invited to or attended a Bethesda event, and regardless of what some might post either in jest or anger at what I have to say, I will not receive any special treatment for posting this, nor would I accept it even if it was offered. I am simply writing this post because I am tired of those who complain cornering the market in this forum.
2) Neither you or I own this game. The thing which makes ESO the most magical is its diverse player base. For every hardcore trial and PVP player, there are hundreds of people who enjoy the game in another way! There are card sharks, traders, role players, wanderers, questers, explorers, lore enthusiasts, etc.
3) ESO is not perfect. Never has been; never will be. Why? Tell me something in existence that is perfect? And given just the few groups listed in point two, there is no way the team behind ESO can satisfy everyone!
I've been playing the game since Summerset, but I just returned from a year's hiatus because I listened to the noise that surrounds ESO. I deeply regret being away, and not just because I missed out on a couple of houses or outfits, but rather because I missed Tamriel itself ... I've never played a game as beautiful and soothing as this game can be. Even in Cyrodiil I ride back from death over and over again ... because I suck at PVP (it's often not lag, my dude) ... I can't help just take in the scenery, the sounds, the music, and the lore which surrounds me. People joke and complain about Cyrodiil being a "riding simulator" and I can tell you there are many times I am glad it is!
Look, I am not upset people want things to improve as far as performance is concerned, but some of the nastiness I've seen on Twitch and YouTube or in this forum is simply over the top. I find myself hearing things and reading thigs which just baffle me. I study and teach media literacy for a living, so I am no stranger to why this happens, but I simply found myself needing to say something about it.
And not because I'll benefit from it.
And not because I'm better than you, because I'm not.
And not because anyone will even listen to me, because I'm nobody in this community.
I do it to offer some perspective.
When I left ESO, I missed it every day. And it wasn't due to a gaming addiction or routine, I simply missed the time I would spend in game because it was an escape and something good in an otherwise crazy world. I let videos titled "Should you play ESO in 2023?" "Is ESO worth playing?" and the voices saying "ESO is dying," or "Why won't they fix (insert topic here)?" I let these voices impact my experience in game and it became a negative in my life so I walked away.
I played every MMO there is during my time off and all of them have issues. None of them are perfect. And, most importantly, none of them are ESO.
So, I put on my big boy pants, admitted even I, someone trained in the power of propaganda, allowed the detractors and haters to influence me. I apologized to my companions for my absence (in game companions as I tend to play solo), I apologized to Arkay, signed Hermaeus Mora's contract, and returned to the game I loved. My wife noticed I was generally happier and asked why and I told her I had gone back to playing ESO (she isn't a gamer), she was thankful and said she always wondered why I ever stopped playing in the first place.
"I am stupid," I told her.
"I know that, but why did you stop playing ESO," she replied.
Perspective. It's important.
So, if you find yourself tired or the ESO cycle, maybe you should take a break or heck just focus on something else in the game for awhile because Arkay knows there's a million things to do and achievements to acquire! Then perhaps you can return once again and enjoy this amazing and unique game.
Sorry this is so long, but there is one more thing to say.
When you take aim at any product or service, whether the restaurant down the street or an MMO, please realize there are people behind it. People who have families. People for whom it is not simply a meal or a game, but a livelihood. Those individuals have done nothing to you! They have not personally attacked you or stolen from you no matter how you try and twist it to your narrative! Therefore, curb your tongue or keyboard, and approach these topics as you would like people to express their complaints to you!
Look, I don't hit the /played command very often because my 57 year old rational side say the result provided is way too much time to spend playing a video game, so I know what it like to be invested in something so strongly both in time and money; however, for the majority of us ESO is a diversion, an entertainment, and dare I say it, a game.
If you have tried to make it your livelihood through streaming and/or content creation for ESO, realize that running ESO down on streams on YouTube might get you some likes and subs now, but it will not help improve the game or your prospects for the future. Yes, there are a million stories about "they promised this streamer ..." or "they screwed Joe Cool by doing xyz," I've been in this community for a very long time. If it happened, that sucks, but to offer some perspective, it is no different then what any worker goes through every day. Also, don't believe everything you read and hear, as keep saying it's about perspective.
May Arkay Bless You! Happy Hunting!
Edited by Gerwulf67 on January 10, 2025 10:05PM After reading the comments on my original post, which is below, I see in trying to be diplomatic I have failed to make the point I was seeking to make. So, here is the straight forward, undiplomatic translation:
I love ESO, and while it is far from perfect, I believe it is the best MMO currently available.
I also understand the frustration players feel when encountering issues which have been around since the beginning of the game; for me it's storage and item limits where housing is concerned.
I agree forums such as this one are important in that they allow those interacting with the game on a daily basis a place to voice their opinions and bring bugs, errors, or cumbersome processes to the attention of the developers.
All that said, subscribing to ESO+ or purchasing the various Chapters and DLCs give you no right to be a butthole or make personal attacks against the people of Bethesda. The type of cutting sarcasm, ranting, and ill will I read in some posts simply is unnecessary and counter productive.
That's all. It's that simple. Disagree, complain, and suggest, but don't be a tool.
Original Post
A couple of things to understand when reading this post ...
1) I have nothing to gain from posting this. I am not a streamer or content creator. I have never been invited to or attended a Bethesda event, and regardless of what some might post either in jest or anger at what I have to say, I will not receive any special treatment for posting this, nor would I accept it even if it was offered. I am simply writing this post because I am tired of those who complain cornering the market in this forum.
2) Neither you or I own this game. The thing which makes ESO the most magical is its diverse player base. For every hardcore trial and PVP player, there are hundreds of people who enjoy the game in another way! There are card sharks, traders, role players, wanderers, questers, explorers, lore enthusiasts, etc.
3) ESO is not perfect. Never has been; never will be. Why? Tell me something in existence that is perfect? And given just the few groups listed in point two, there is no way the team behind ESO can satisfy everyone!
I've been playing the game since Summerset, but I just returned from a year's hiatus because I listened to the noise that surrounds ESO. I deeply regret being away, and not just because I missed out on a couple of houses or outfits, but rather because I missed Tamriel itself ... I've never played a game as beautiful and soothing as this game can be. Even in Cyrodiil I ride back from death over and over again ... because I suck at PVP (it's often not lag, my dude) ... I can't help just take in the scenery, the sounds, the music, and the lore which surrounds me. People joke and complain about Cyrodiil being a "riding simulator" and I can tell you there are many times I am glad it is!
Look, I am not upset people want things to improve as far as performance is concerned, but some of the nastiness I've seen on Twitch and YouTube or in this forum is simply over the top. I find myself hearing things and reading thigs which just baffle me. I study and teach media literacy for a living, so I am no stranger to why this happens, but I simply found myself needing to say something about it.
And not because I'll benefit from it.
And not because I'm better than you, because I'm not.
And not because anyone will even listen to me, because I'm nobody in this community.
I do it to offer some perspective.
When I left ESO, I missed it every day. And it wasn't due to a gaming addiction or routine, I simply missed the time I would spend in game because it was an escape and something good in an otherwise crazy world. I let videos titled "Should you play ESO in 2023?" "Is ESO worth playing?" and the voices saying "ESO is dying," or "Why won't they fix (insert topic here)?" I let these voices impact my experience in game and it became a negative in my life so I walked away.
I played every MMO there is during my time off and all of them have issues. None of them are perfect. And, most importantly, none of them are ESO.
So, I put on my big boy pants, admitted even I, someone trained in the power of propaganda, allowed the detractors and haters to influence me. I apologized to my companions for my absence (in game companions as I tend to play solo), I apologized to Arkay, signed Hermaeus Mora's contract, and returned to the game I loved. My wife noticed I was generally happier and asked why and I told her I had gone back to playing ESO (she isn't a gamer), she was thankful and said she always wondered why I ever stopped playing in the first place.
"I am stupid," I told her.
"I know that, but why did you stop playing ESO," she replied.
Perspective. It's important.
So, if you find yourself tired or the ESO cycle, maybe you should take a break or heck just focus on something else in the game for awhile because Arkay knows there's a million things to do and achievements to acquire! Then perhaps you can return once again and enjoy this amazing and unique game.
Sorry this is so long, but there is one more thing to say.
When you take aim at any product or service, whether the restaurant down the street or an MMO, please realize there are people behind it. People who have families. People for whom it is not simply a meal or a game, but a livelihood. Those individuals have done nothing to you! They have not personally attacked you or stolen from you no matter how you try and twist it to your narrative! Therefore, curb your tongue or keyboard, and approach these topics as you would like people to express their complaints to you!
Look, I don't hit the /played command very often because my 57 year old rational side say the result provided is way too much time to spend playing a video game, so I know what it like to be invested in something so strongly both in time and money; however, for the majority of us ESO is a diversion, an entertainment, and dare I say it, a game.
If you have tried to make it your livelihood through streaming and/or content creation for ESO, realize that running ESO down on streams on YouTube might get you some likes and subs now, but it will not help improve the game or your prospects for the future. Yes, there are a million stories about "they promised this streamer ..." or "they screwed Joe Cool by doing xyz," I've been in this community for a very long time. If it happened, that sucks, but to offer some perspective, it is no different then what any worker goes through every day. Also, don't believe everything you read and hear, as keep saying it's about perspective.
May Arkay Bless You! Happy Hunting!
11
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Lyraen_Skyforge✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I can appreciate finding joy again in something you once loved, it reminds me of getting back together with an ex—you might feel the nostalgia and excitement at first, but eventually, the reasons you left in the first place will come back around.
Taking breaks or shifting perspective can certainly help, but when the core issues remain unresolved, they tend to resurface, often stronger than before. If those problems don’t impact your enjoyment, that’s great! But for many, it’s hard to ignore the same recurring frustrations over time, no matter how much beauty or nostalgia the game offers.
It’s good that ESO brings you happiness, but it’s also fair for others to voice their concerns—especially when those concerns are tied to long-standing issues that affect the broader player base. After all, healthy criticism drives improvement, and ignoring problems doesn’t make them go away.12 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Always do what you enjoy doing, no matter how other people feel about it. Everyone enjoys different things. This is also why when I complain on the forums about ESO, I first state ESO is a great game and well worth playing.
Welcome back, hopefully you will stick around this time!
PS: This is coming from someone who enjoyed "not popular" things from a very young age. Luckily I have always been a person of strong mind, and never cared about what others thought about it.1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm genuinely curious, especially since you mentioned your profession is about "media literacy": How do other people's opinion matter when it comes to one enjoying a game (or any other thing)? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it (consider it a question from a not-so-social, and maybe autistic, person)?
Because I can't imagine giving up something that brings me joy just because someone else says they don't like that thing. The other way round I won't ever start something that feels like utter nonsense to me just because it's "popular". So, from this perspective, people can talk all they want, they can even rant or do what ever. I might decide to listen to what they have to say, but in the end, I still make my own judgement based on what I find plausible.
I'm asking because I genuinely don't understand (but want to), and this topic comes up at this forum repeatedly. Most often it's something like "Don't be so critical, guys, it ruins my mood" (I'm not refering to you, I'm just stating what the threads usually are about) which makes me wonder that, if it ruins someone's mood to read it, why do they read it and let themselves be influenced by it? Because from my perspective it's our own choice how serious we take what other people say, and what we make with that. If we feel other people's opinions worsen our mood, we are the ones that should do something about that (the easiest solution would probably to stop reading), not restrict other opinions.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time in ESO!It’s good that ESO brings you happiness, but it’s also fair for others to voice their concerns—especially when those concerns are tied to long-standing issues that affect the broader player base. After all, healthy criticism drives improvement, and ignoring problems doesn’t make them go away.
Fully agreed! Without criticism, there would never be any progress. A thing that does matter, there I agree with OP, is that the criticism should be polite and not personal attacks or even insults towards the creators. But civil criticism and politely voicing disappointments should not be labelled as something bad, negativity or things like that, and should not be restricted, as it serves the purpose of improvement.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake5 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is true of all things in life. For everything I enjoy, there are people who enjoy it less or hate it.
Every time I use the forums, I read opinions I disagree with. This is par for the course in public discourse. For me to function here, I have to be able to put the opinions of others in perspective and recognize they are as entitled to theirs as I am to mine.
Sometimes it's not easy because the things I care about seem threatened, but the onus is on me to process what I read in a healthy way.
The ESO forums have always been a place where players come to discuss topics and issues related to the game that are important to them. For something lighter, I would recommend the eso subreddit.spending a year dead for tax reasons3 -
Gerwulf67✭✭✭It’s good that ESO brings you happiness, but it’s also fair for others to voice their concerns—especially when those concerns are tied to long-standing issues that affect the broader player base. After all, healthy criticism drives improvement, and ignoring problems doesn’t make them go away.
Thanks for your comment! I don't see anything in my original post that discourages people form voicing their concerns. The game certainly has issues and no amount of "nostalgia" as you call it can erase them. For example, I'm a housing person. I believe we should be allowed to place more items in our houses and not being able to do so impacts my creativity and I suppose lessens my enjoyment in that part of the game.
My point, which I will go back and put more concisely at the beginning of my post, is that one can do so without being a condescending butthole lol. Fair and honest feedback on game systems in forums such as this is vital to the health of the game; however, the insults, anger, and ranting about issues is counterproductive to both the person's message and the game in general.
Thanks again for taking the time to interact with my post!0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always feel compelled to point out that, in general, only people who actually care about the game and want it to be an even better experience take the time to criticize it. For the most part, those who hate it can't be bothered."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle6 -
Gerwulf67✭✭✭
Sometimes it's not easy because the things I care about seem threatened, but the onus is on me to process what I read in a healthy way.
The ESO forums have always been a place where players come to discuss topics and issues related to the game that are important to them. For something lighter, I would recommend the eso subreddit.
Thanks for your comment! I am not offended by or emotionally impacted by what I read in the forum, so I don't need lighter-fare, but thanks for looking out for me!
I respect people who voice their opinions on problems which impact their enjoyment of the game; I have no respect for those who stoop to name calling or run down those processes enacted by Bethesda to improve the game. The reaction to the PVP information given in the stream the other day is a classic example - "We want PVP fixed, but don't want it to impact our game outside of the PTS" and this idea that a poster to a public forum somehow knows more about how to fix PVP than people who make their livelihoods working on such issues. Look, I get it, PVP has been neglected, but it seems to be coming to a head given the director's letter and the information we received yesterday.
I'm also aware testing has been done before and led nowhere, which I get is frustrating - I love PVP in ESO but find it to be hit and miss where performance is concerned and I loathe ball groups - but this seems to be a new direction and I'm willing to give it a go. Even if I wasn't wiling, I would be more mature and guarded in my posts about my frustration as I understand how difficult it is to deal with complaints and issues from customers.
Sorry, I guess my initial post was not written as directly as it could have been since I was trying to be diplomatic lol0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The nastiness is unfortunate, but some people are just that way, and some others are emboldened by the distance and anonymity the internet offers because they find a sense of safety from that. Much of the nastiness would not happen between people who were face-to-face.
It is a good thing Zenimax has moderators that keep discussions civil in these forums. If content creators permit the nastiness, then that is on them and heavily reflects on them, as I know of some that will not allow it for the same logical reasons Zenimax does not here.
As for personally dealing with it, tune out the negativity and, in the forums, report it. Having a different opinion and expressing it with a civil tongue is acceptable and is an expected and desired part of discussing ESO-related things.
2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »I always feel compelled to point out that, in general, only people who actually care about the game and want it to be an even better experience take the time to criticize it. For the most part, those who hate it can't be bothered.
Most players do not come to Reddit and other forums. I do not think that means they do not care about the game. They are playing it, especially those who pay to play in one manner or another, demonstrating they care. They may not have anything they dislike enough to criticize.
Granted, I agree that those who civilly criticize aspects of the game for providing meaningful feedback and avoiding rage posts do love the game very much as they are willing to take the time to put much thought into their comments.
Edited by Amottica on January 10, 2025 10:04PM1