The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

[SUGGESTION] Dear ZOS, please improve your pre-release testing

Blood_again
Blood_again
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Really, lack of new feature testing becomes a real problem. It needs to be adressed.

Don't get me wrong. I know that bugs are practically unavoidable, especially in such a big system with many many major and minor changes.
The problem is that critical places and moments should be tested for bugs carefully, but they clearly were not.

As you can see the last great surprises to the community turned to some bad jokes.
Crafting event became an exploit fest, DLC giveaway blocked all the rewards for those who owned it.
I would've found it funny, if it hadn't affected the community so much.
As I can see, crafting event has broken a trust to the game for a part of the community. Yes, exploiters, who are shouting in the crowd, played their role here. I don't try to make them clean and white. But the problem was started with the surprise feature that wasn't tested enough.
Current DLC giveaway punished those people, who had bought DLC or ESO+. We don't get anything while others get free DLC - no problem. But don't block the rest of the reward for us please. I won't be surprised, when some of the players would stop subscribing or buying DLCs after that. And the root of the problem is, again, the buggy feature that wasn't tested well.

Dear ZOS, I believe you are hardcore professionals. You keep this incredibly complex system alive while changing it for more than 10 years. So I'm sure you clearly see the problem and know it way better than we are.
I just want to make a sign, that this problem is already visible outside. It went worse and it really affects the customers.
Please do something to stop it becoming worse.

If it is connected with surprise features that have to be made fast... well, it might be a good idea to make less good surprises, but make the rest really good.
Seriously, I like to watch fireworks if they don't burn the barn at the end of the show.
  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    Really, lack of new feature testing becomes a real problem. It needs to be adressed.

    Don't get me wrong. I know that bugs are practically unavoidable, especially in such a big system with many many major and minor changes.
    The problem is that critical places and moments should be tested for bugs carefully, but they clearly were not.

    As you can see the last great surprises to the community turned to some bad jokes.
    Crafting event became an exploit fest, DLC giveaway blocked all the rewards for those who owned it.
    I would've found it funny, if it hadn't affected the community so much.
    As I can see, crafting event has broken a trust to the game for a part of the community. Yes, exploiters, who are shouting in the crowd, played their role here. I don't try to make them clean and white. But the problem was started with the surprise feature that wasn't tested enough.
    Current DLC giveaway punished those people, who had bought DLC or ESO+. We don't get anything while others get free DLC - no problem. But don't block the rest of the reward for us please. I won't be surprised, when some of the players would stop subscribing or buying DLCs after that. And the root of the problem is, again, the buggy feature that wasn't tested well.

    Dear ZOS, I believe you are hardcore professionals. You keep this incredibly complex system alive while changing it for more than 10 years. So I'm sure you clearly see the problem and know it way better than we are.
    I just want to make a sign, that this problem is already visible outside. It went worse and it really affects the customers.
    Please do something to stop it becoming worse.

    If it is connected with surprise features that have to be made fast... well, it might be a good idea to make less good surprises, but make the rest really good.
    Seriously, I like to watch fireworks if they don't burn the barn at the end of the show.

    It's not the first time zos has given away free dlc or chapters. They have done so several times now. Of those times this one single instance happened to be bugged.

    As for the crafting event, I believe it was on the pts before it went live.
  • ESO_player123
    ESO_player123
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    According to the responses to the pinned thread the DLC reward is bugged even for those who do not own Orsinium.
  • ESO_player123
    ESO_player123
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    Really, lack of new feature testing becomes a real problem. It needs to be adressed.

    Don't get me wrong. I know that bugs are practically unavoidable, especially in such a big system with many many major and minor changes.
    The problem is that critical places and moments should be tested for bugs carefully, but they clearly were not.

    As you can see the last great surprises to the community turned to some bad jokes.
    Crafting event became an exploit fest, DLC giveaway blocked all the rewards for those who owned it.
    I would've found it funny, if it hadn't affected the community so much.
    As I can see, crafting event has broken a trust to the game for a part of the community. Yes, exploiters, who are shouting in the crowd, played their role here. I don't try to make them clean and white. But the problem was started with the surprise feature that wasn't tested enough.
    Current DLC giveaway punished those people, who had bought DLC or ESO+. We don't get anything while others get free DLC - no problem. But don't block the rest of the reward for us please. I won't be surprised, when some of the players would stop subscribing or buying DLCs after that. And the root of the problem is, again, the buggy feature that wasn't tested well.

    Dear ZOS, I believe you are hardcore professionals. You keep this incredibly complex system alive while changing it for more than 10 years. So I'm sure you clearly see the problem and know it way better than we are.
    I just want to make a sign, that this problem is already visible outside. It went worse and it really affects the customers.
    Please do something to stop it becoming worse.

    If it is connected with surprise features that have to be made fast... well, it might be a good idea to make less good surprises, but make the rest really good.
    Seriously, I like to watch fireworks if they don't burn the barn at the end of the show.

    It's not the first time zos has given away free dlc or chapters. They have done so several times now. Of those times this one single instance happened to be bugged.

    As for the crafting event, I believe it was on the pts before it went live.

    Was it on PTS? I remember reading in the announcement that it was a surprise event.
  • Maitsukas
    Maitsukas
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    Really, lack of new feature testing becomes a real problem. It needs to be adressed.

    Don't get me wrong. I know that bugs are practically unavoidable, especially in such a big system with many many major and minor changes.
    The problem is that critical places and moments should be tested for bugs carefully, but they clearly were not.

    As you can see the last great surprises to the community turned to some bad jokes.
    Crafting event became an exploit fest, DLC giveaway blocked all the rewards for those who owned it.
    I would've found it funny, if it hadn't affected the community so much.
    As I can see, crafting event has broken a trust to the game for a part of the community. Yes, exploiters, who are shouting in the crowd, played their role here. I don't try to make them clean and white. But the problem was started with the surprise feature that wasn't tested enough.
    Current DLC giveaway punished those people, who had bought DLC or ESO+. We don't get anything while others get free DLC - no problem. But don't block the rest of the reward for us please. I won't be surprised, when some of the players would stop subscribing or buying DLCs after that. And the root of the problem is, again, the buggy feature that wasn't tested well.

    Dear ZOS, I believe you are hardcore professionals. You keep this incredibly complex system alive while changing it for more than 10 years. So I'm sure you clearly see the problem and know it way better than we are.
    I just want to make a sign, that this problem is already visible outside. It went worse and it really affects the customers.
    Please do something to stop it becoming worse.

    If it is connected with surprise features that have to be made fast... well, it might be a good idea to make less good surprises, but make the rest really good.
    Seriously, I like to watch fireworks if they don't burn the barn at the end of the show.

    It's not the first time zos has given away free dlc or chapters. They have done so several times now. Of those times this one single instance happened to be bugged.

    As for the crafting event, I believe it was on the pts before it went live.

    The Crafters Celebration event wasn't on PTS at all, the first tidbits about it came to players' e-mail.
    PC-EU @maitsukas

    Posting the weekly Infinite Archive vendor updates.

    Also trying out new Main Quests, Companions, ToT decks, Events and Styles on PTS.
  • Blood_again
    Blood_again
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    It's not the first time zos has given away free dlc or chapters. They have done so several times now. Of those times this one single instance happened to be bugged.

    IIRC, previous DLC giveaways (Murkmire, Deadlands, Firesong) were for nearly released ones.
    It is a new case: some players already have the DLC when it went to be given away.
    As a new case, it should've been tested carefully.

  • valenwood_vegan
    valenwood_vegan
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    Yes, the frequency of issues with events/surprises this year demonstrates a severe breakdown of internal processes at ZoS. I'm not saying this to bash, I understand that in an old and complex piece of software such as this, bugs are going to occur. But how are they continuing to slip through over and over again? Proper Q/A testing *needs* to be done. Where is management?

    It's honestly becoming quite alarming, as we are likely to have additional surprise rewards and events during the anniversary celebration.

    @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

    Please reflect on your internal Q/A and testing processes and at this point... I'd strongly suggest that you consider forgoing the "surprise" aspect going forward and ensure that every single new event and reward is properly tested via PTS if they cannot be tested internally.

    (Perhaps a special PTS session or at least extra guidance for PTS players with a focus on event testing would help too, as most people on PTS are probably there to play through the new content and are not necessarily running through the events that *are* on there for testing).
    Edited by valenwood_vegan on March 2, 2024 5:47PM
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    It is impossible to find every single bug. There are so many variables to what we do in the game that even with a PTS and more people involved in testing there are bugs that are not discovered. And that is much more than what can be done in-house due to the small number of players.

    As for the exploit that is noted above, that has affected a small number of players, and from what has been said the action was repeated a great many times which was not what the majority of players did. Very much out of the norm during the event.




  • valenwood_vegan
    valenwood_vegan
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    Amottica wrote: »
    It is impossible to find every single bug. There are so many variables to what we do in the game that even with a PTS and more people involved in testing there are bugs that are not discovered.

    While I agree generally, I do want to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

    Maelstrom arena perfected weapon drop on normal bug;
    Transmute recon / decon exploit;
    Login reward bug that appears to affect most if not all players.

    These are not little obscure bugs that are difficult to replicate and would likely be missed during testing.

    EDIT to add: Forgot to include the bug with the star-made knight achievement, which some people can no longer complete now that the event buff is passive and the scroll of pelinal isn't a thing anymore. This, imo, is an example of the kind of more obscure bug that requires a more specific test case, and I can at least understand how it got missed... but I think it still points to a breakdown somewhere where the possible ramifications of changes to one feature are not being explored.
    Edited by valenwood_vegan on March 2, 2024 6:19PM
  • manukartofanu
    manukartofanu
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    Amottica wrote: »
    It is impossible to find every single bug. There are so many variables to what we do in the game that even with a PTS and more people involved in testing there are bugs that are not discovered. And that is much more than what can be done in-house due to the small number of players.

    As for the exploit that is noted above, that has affected a small number of players, and from what has been said the action was repeated a great many times which was not what the majority of players did. Very much out of the norm during the event.
    It is true in general, but transmutes and current give away are obvious ones. QA cannot overlook such things; they are simply the most obvious and are tested as a priority if they can be tested. Honestly, after recent events, I have doubts that even one QA playing the game was involved in the testing process of the surprise event. Even the worst QA would have checked this as a priority.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Are you suggesting ESO has QA? I have seen no evidence to support such a thing.

    It's interesting how much more broken stuff has made it to Live since January 3rd.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Pelanora
    Pelanora
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    "Is a ten year old game" is going to be a worse problem when the reason is "it's a fifteen year old game" and "it's a twenty year old game.... what are they going to DO...

    I think they should have Microsoft's AI crawl the code and offer suggestions for simplifying/repairs.... it's got to be faster....
  • Serpari
    Serpari
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    I think it bodes poorly we’re on strike three of bugs negatively impacting players in the same month. First the transmutes, then the Scroll of Pelinal’s Ferocity, now this. I understand QA cannot find every single bug ever, but it's not a good look for a company as large as Zenimax to have these issues back to back in so short a time. It makes me concerned for ESO's future. As much as I don't want to go back to FFXIV, at least that MMO doesn't seem to be suffering from as many bugs as this one.


    The bird of Hermes is my name
    Eating my wings to make me tame
  • ClericPro
    ClericPro
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    But the problem was started with the surprise feature that wasn't tested enough.
    This feature wasn't poorly implemented - it worked exactly as intended.
    This function was incorrectly designed and contained an exploit from the start.
    In this case, the problem is not in the test, but in the logical thinking of those who invented this function.
  • Destai
    Destai
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    Yeah, I don’t know what is going on with them this year, but it’s dimmed my hype for Gold Road.
    Edited by Destai on March 7, 2024 4:52PM
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Amottica wrote: »
    It is impossible to find every single bug. There are so many variables to what we do in the game that even with a PTS and more people involved in testing there are bugs that are not discovered.

    While I agree generally, I do want to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

    Maelstrom arena perfected weapon drop on normal bug;
    Transmute recon / decon exploit;
    Login reward bug that appears to affect most if not all players.

    These are not little obscure bugs that are difficult to replicate and would likely be missed during testing.

    EDIT to add: Forgot to include the bug with the star-made knight achievement, which some people can no longer complete now that the event buff is passive and the scroll of pelinal isn't a thing anymore. This, imo, is an example of the kind of more obscure bug that requires a more specific test case, and I can at least understand how it got missed... but I think it still points to a breakdown somewhere where the possible ramifications of changes to one feature are not being explored.

    Great points but in the same token Zenimax did not make one single change when they made those updates. It really is a simple as the game is not that simple.

  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Amottica wrote: »
    It is impossible to find every single bug. There are so many variables to what we do in the game that even with a PTS and more people involved in testing there are bugs that are not discovered. And that is much more than what can be done in-house due to the small number of players.

    As for the exploit that is noted above, that has affected a small number of players, and from what has been said the action was repeated a great many times which was not what the majority of players did. Very much out of the norm during the event.
    It is true in general, but transmutes and current give away are obvious ones. QA cannot overlook such things; they are simply the most obvious and are tested as a priority if they can be tested. Honestly, after recent events, I have doubts that even one QA playing the game was involved in the testing process of the surprise event. Even the worst QA would have checked this as a priority.

    It is true even with that. The transmute issue stands out only because it was big news. The update was not that one simple thing.

  • katanagirl1
    katanagirl1
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    Every time I deal with anything nowadays it is like this in real life. Companies want to get rid of experienced people because they cost too much. Experience is not valued anymore, it is considered a liability. Less experienced people are cheaper to hire and increases the shareholder value, that is the goal. I suspect that and other factors common to business nowadays are in play.

    Something as simple as getting new windows installed in my house resulted in getting the wrong size windows delivered, the installers using hammers to try to force them into the existing window frames and breaking the windows, and reordering new windows and waiting for a second installation. Every time we upgrade something it goes just like this.

    Software is just worse I guess.
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP

    PS5 NA

  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Serpari wrote: »
    I think it bodes poorly we’re on strike three of bugs negatively impacting players in the same month. First the transmutes, then the Scroll of Pelinal’s Ferocity, now this. I understand QA cannot find every single bug ever, but it's not a good look for a company as large as Zenimax to have these issues back to back in so short a time.

    Ask yourself: What's changed in this "short time?"



    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • fizzylu
    fizzylu
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    ClericPro wrote: »
    In this case, the problem is not in the test, but in the logical thinking of those who invented this function.
    How I've been feeling about everything related to ESO in recent years, haha. Honestly, I think the problem is that they don't do enough player testing nor listen to feedback and just think their own judgment is all they need. Right away when this event started players pointed out how problematic it was.... it really all kind of takes me back to the U35 situation.
  • JustLovely
    JustLovely
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    One does get the impression ZOS is kinda just stumbling through their content releases lately and not doing enough testing first, that's for sure. The crafting event situation, the Orsinium DLC hiccup, etc. don't leave the player base with the impression ZOS is running a tight ship these days.
  • Blood_again
    Blood_again
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    Thank you for answers.
    I'll try to stay away from speculations about ZoS' internal processes. I also call you do the same.
    It won't fit to goals of this topic: marking the quality problem. Also with some emotions it might come close to breaking the rules. Please don't do it.

    Dear ZoS, thank you for fixing the daily reward problem.
    It is clear that you did it far beyond your work scedule. Working hard in the weekend is not a sweet roll.
    Despite some players blaming the maintenance in the weekend + event, you managed to fix it asap and delivered the promised present. It is really appreciated.

    Meanwile I hope if the quality problem may be solved, there will be less situations in the future that require such heroic deeds from community-, support- and development-team. Imagine all this people relaxing on Saturday instead of fighting with bugs.

    Please, dear ZoS, if something may be improved in development and delivery processes, that raises the quality of outcome - please try it.
  • TheMajority
    TheMajority
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    Current DLC giveaway punished those people, who had bought DLC or ESO+. We don't get anything while others get free DLC - no problem. But don't block the rest of the reward for us please. I won't be surprised, when some of the players would stop subscribing or buying DLCs after that. And the root of the problem is, again, the buggy feature that wasn't tested well.

    This is not reality if you have ESO+ you get the DLC too for free...it means if you no longer sub you still own it. And I'm happy to own it. ZOS is really kind this year and people just throw it in their faces...its really a bad reflection of the community. Not everyone is lacking in gratitude and I hope zos knows that

    Also, they fix the bug with the DLC claim and the calendar is fine now so

    Its not "Punishment" nobody got punished by a DLC they owned for years its good for newer players. Punishment is when bad things happen to you that make you unable to play. This didn't make your account unplayable so its not punishment.
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