Does ESO need a Gold Sink? PCNA

ElderSmitter

I am too Scared to buy Crowns from Someone. So, my Gold just Piles up. I really don't have anything I need after playing for so Long. I am Fully Engaged and Love ESO. Just wish there was a Clever way for them to Introduce a Gold Sink that we pour money into for Extremely Rare Artifacts.

Sarannah

No

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

Tandor

No

No, in the sense that apparently it already has an effective one.

I say that because whenever the uselessness of the present trading system is raised, its defenders (Hint for their identification: check their bank balance) argue that it's only the present trading system that provides an effective gold sink through the prices that are paid for traders in order to prevent the kind of inflation seen with the alternative auction house system. The observant among us will not only note inflation rates under the present system but also note that the trader prices are set by, you guessed it, auction !

ElderSmitter

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

I am the one you're buying them from. That is not a Gold Sink. a Gold Sink is when the game removes Gold from the game taking it out of the ESO community.

Necrotech_Master

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

buying motifs and anything from a guild store is not a gold sink, because that gold is transferred to another person

a sink is when the gold is just gone, like when spending it on an NPC merchant, or renting out the guild traders

ElderSmitter

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

Like for instance. If there was a Rare Skin Vendor. You could buy 50-250 million Gold Skins or Mounts (Bound). That would be an Effective Gold Sink but then Crown Store would Suffer. So, it would have to be something else. But I wish we had something like that.

Sarannah

No

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

I am the one you're buying them from. That is not a Gold Sink. a Gold Sink is when the game removes Gold from the game taking it out of the ESO community.

Well, that does sink my gold!!

And my answer would still be no, because with inflation prices balance eachother out. And there is the issue where quests always give minimal gold, so any major goldsink would be out of reach for most players who are not in a guild or who are not selling things in a guildstore.

PS: The problem we are mainly looking at was allowing players to automate the crafting dailies through add-ons. This allowed many players to basically just print the gold without doing the actual work for it.

Necrotech_Master

for the OP, i think they could introduce other gold sinks

mount training is low cost and limited, bag and bank upgrades are one and done, houses are one and done

what i would like to see is a way to use our gold to buy gear boxes, like they have gamble boxes for other currencies but not gold

like if monster shoulder boxes cost gold instead of keys, i would 100% buy them to finish my collection, same goes for any of the cyro gear boxes or IC gear boxes, or even infinite archive gear boxes

most of the sinks for gold for the average person would be extremely low cost ones (mount training, bag, bank, repairing armor, wayshrine travel) or large 1 time purchases (houses that cost gold)

so they could certainly introduce gold sinks, either directly (stuff that costs gold), or indirectly (gold->other currency conversions)

Tandor

No

Any new gold sink system would have to work equally well across all platforms and servers.

So anything designed to take gold out of PC NA would also take gold out of X-Box EU, for example.

Seriously, would that work?

Necrotech_Master

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Like for instance. If there was a Rare Skin Vendor. You could buy 50-250 million Gold Skins or Mounts (Bound). That would be an Effective Gold Sink but then Crown Store would Suffer. So, it would have to be something else. But I wish we had something like that.

i dont necessarily think insanely expensive one time purchases would really constitute a good gold sink

most high end trade guilds already spend that much on traders every week

but more casual players this would be forever out of reach to get that much gold (ones that say arent part of a guild and dont regularly sell or interact with other players)

whatever the sink is, it should be 100k or less and something repeatable, so that it could be used by everyone

like heck even a specialty housing vendor that sells housing mats and rarer style mats for higher prices (somewhere in the 1-10k each range), as this would not dissuade players from buying and selling on guild stores as they could get a better deal, but also somewhere that they could sink that gold for the insane amounts needed for actually furnishing a house with crafted furniture

Jaimeh

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

Yes, and one great way would be to offer more houses with in-game gold (and since someone mentioned above that other platforms might not be in a similar situation, they could still have a crown option for those who would prefer that).

sarahthes

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

Buying motifs is a gold transfer not a sink.

Jhava

No

sarahthes wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

Buying motifs is a gold transfer not a sink.

It's both tbh.

Tandor

No

Sarannah wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

I am the one you're buying them from. That is not a Gold Sink. a Gold Sink is when the game removes Gold from the game taking it out of the ESO community.

Well, that does sink my gold!!

And my answer would still be no, because with inflation prices balance eachother out. And there is the issue where quests always give minimal gold, so any major goldsink would be out of reach for most players who are not in a guild or who are not selling things in a guildstore.

PS: The problem we are mainly looking at was allowing players to automate the crafting dailies through add-ons. This allowed many players to basically just print the gold without doing the actual work for it.

On your last point, I agree that the PC trading system is uniquely impacted by add-ons. Your interpretation of that is spot on.

Otherwise, I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning of "gold sink". It refers solely to the permanent removal of gold from the game, which is unrelated to trading between players which simply moves the gold around within the game. It is true, however, that the only real gold sink in the game at present is through the trading system. and I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

TaSheen

The first three years in this game, I did not use crafting addons. By the end of those years, on my first two accounts, I had millions in gold, mostly from crafting on many alts. After I set up a third account, I shrugged and grabbed LWC and a couple others.

I don't have (or "make") as much gold now even with the addons. I don't craft on all my alts. Only a couple on each account, except for during jubilee when I boost that to however many 50s I have on my accounts.

I have never bothered with the (what I consider "gimped") trading setup in this game. And I won't ever. I've bought houses with gold. I've bought mats with gold when I've run out (like the account that is going on 8 months without a clothier survey.... RNG? Yeah right....)

I still have a couple or three million on each account both pc megaservers. But really, there's not much to spend gold on in this game - I do buy my (more than) fair share of stuff from the luxury furniture guy and the golden vendor. But that's about all there is to spend it on....

uniqpy

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

It seems a lot of people don't understand a Gold sink doesn't mean buying things off other players, that's the problem. We need 10+ Million Gold houses which means the Gold goes to ZOS. 100% in both PC Megaservers inflation is insanely high and we need something to buy with it.

Tandor

No

Tandor wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

There is already a goldsink, buying crafting motifs and staying up-to-date with crafting motifs is really expensive. I have spent like 50M+ that way.

Since I stopped running dungeons, I have also been spending quite a bit on the golden vendor on items I still needed for my stickerbook.

I am the one you're buying them from. That is not a Gold Sink. a Gold Sink is when the game removes Gold from the game taking it out of the ESO community.

Well, that does sink my gold!!

And my answer would still be no, because with inflation prices balance eachother out. And there is the issue where quests always give minimal gold, so any major goldsink would be out of reach for most players who are not in a guild or who are not selling things in a guildstore.

PS: The problem we are mainly looking at was allowing players to automate the crafting dailies through add-ons. This allowed many players to basically just print the gold without doing the actual work for it.

On your last point, I agree that the PC trading system is uniquely impacted by add-ons. Your interpretation of that is spot on.

Otherwise, I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning of "gold sink". It refers solely to the permanent removal of gold from the game, which is unrelated to trading between players which simply moves the gold around within the game. It is true, however, that the only real gold sink in the game at present is through the trading system. and I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

EDIT: To clarify re the trading system, it is of course only the trader rental that removes gold from the game and is therefore a real gold sink, whereas transactions between players simply move the gold around and don't therefore constitute a gold sink at all.

Jhava

No

Transactions between players on the guild trader is actually also a gold sink.

TaSheen

Jhava wrote: »

Transactions between players on the guild trader is actually also a gold sink.

Not really. An actual "gold sink" removes gold from the game. Transactions between players just moves gold around. The only "gold sink" involved in trading is guild bids for traders.

Jhava

No

TaSheen wrote: »

Jhava wrote: »

Transactions between players on the guild trader is actually also a gold sink.

Not really. An actual "gold sink" removes gold from the game. Transactions between players just moves gold around. The only "gold sinc" involved in trading is guild bids for traders.

Transactions between players through a guild trader is a gold sink, and removes gold from the game.

KlauthWarthog

TaSheen wrote: »

Jhava wrote: »

Transactions between players on the guild trader is actually also a gold sink.

Not really. An actual "gold sink" removes gold from the game. Transactions between players just moves gold around. The only "gold sink" involved in trading is guild bids for traders.

In order to sell through a guild trader, you need to list the item on it. And listing an item has a cost. The gold from this listing cost is removed from the game entirely.

TaSheen

True in main, but it's a minor amount.

virtus753

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Jhava wrote: »

Transactions between players on the guild trader is actually also a gold sink.

Not really. An actual "gold sink" removes gold from the game. Transactions between players just moves gold around. The only "gold sink" involved in trading is guild bids for traders.

In order to sell through a guild trader, you need to list the item on it. And listing an item has a cost. The gold from this listing cost is removed from the game entirely.

As is half of the 7% house cut, only half of which goes the guild.

TaSheen

It's still a minor amount.

kargen27

Tandor wrote: »

No, in the sense that apparently it already has an effective one.

I say that because whenever the uselessness of the present trading system is raised, its defenders (Hint for their identification: check their bank balance) argue that it's only the present trading system that provides an effective gold sink through the prices that are paid for traders in order to prevent the kind of inflation seen with the alternative auction house system. The observant among us will not only note inflation rates under the present system but also note that the trader prices are set by, you guessed it, auction !

You are taking a heck of a leap here. Yes those supporting the current trade system correctly point out it is the games only effective gold sink. No they do not say it should be the only gold sink. I would argue the inflation rates you are seeing are first not crippling to the economy in any way and 2nd are the result of add-ons not the trade system. See the difference in pricing between platforms as proof.
People who support the current trading system participate in the current system. They don't support the system because they have gold. They have gold because they participate in the system. Getting back on topic the game could use another gold sink.
A decent gold sink for players might be the conversion of gold to endeavor tickets. Would be hard to balance a ratio that players would take advantage of but wouldn't greatly impact revenue for ZoS from crown crates.

Amottica

No

A gold sink for those with plenty of gold is something that keeps newer players in poverty.

I have yet to see a game have an effective gold sink since those who have amassed a lot of gold are the ones who do not spend it or waste it. So it does not make sense.

Malyore

No

What rare items are you thinking should be dropped?

Northwold

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

Tandor wrote: »

No, in the sense that apparently it already has an effective one.

I say that because whenever the uselessness of the present trading system is raised, its defenders (Hint for their identification: check their bank balance) argue that it's only the present trading system that provides an effective gold sink through the prices that are paid for traders in order to prevent the kind of inflation seen with the alternative auction house system. The observant among us will not only note inflation rates under the present system but also note that the trader prices are set by, you guessed it, auction !

Indeed.

It's also worth noting that if ZOS were to open up the trading system to players who don't want to join guilds, eg through a similar system of more heavily taxed NPC-controlled traders, the likely impact would be in-game economy prices falling, leading to less concentration of gold in the hands of specific individuals and less of the deliberate perpetuation of inflationary pricing in the player economy. More sellers = more competition on price.

One important thing people miss when they argue for the trading system to be preserved as it is because of the gold sink (because they're too busy claiming that the trading system prevents inflation -- excuse me while I burst out laughing), is that the prices of the player economy motivate players who do not themselves sell items to get their gold by in-game means to buy stuff, whether that be farming certain public dungeons or whatever. Because they do not participate on the sell side of the player economy, they are not recirculating money that was already in the economy held by other players, they are creating it.

Gold is being created out of thin air specifically to meet prices in the trading system. Which runs completely against the concept of guild traders as a gold sink. The amounts trading players (in total) receive then increase, and the trader auctions sell spots at, at best, a rate proportionate to that rise, though I doubt that happens often.

The end result: at best, guild traders act as a gold sink for the inflation they themselves create. At worst, the gold sink is nowhere near strong enough to counteract the behavioural impacts caused by the trading system itself.

Houses for gold are the obvious solution. But equally obvious, then they can't be monetised...

Narvuntien

No

The gold sink is the guild trader system.

ElderSmitter

Yes way too much Gold in the ESO Community

uniqpy wrote: »

It seems a lot of people don't understand a Gold sink doesn't mean buying things off other players, that's the problem. We need 10+ Million Gold houses which means the Gold goes to ZOS. 100% in b

Amottica wrote: »

A gold sink for those with plenty of gold is something that keeps newer players in poverty.

I have yet to see a game have an effective gold sink since those who have amassed a lot of gold are the ones who do not spend it or waste it. So it does not make sense.

I think the reason there is no True Gold Sink is because it would not benefit the Game Creators and take money away from purchasing real money things thru the crown store. I do not mind the current system, except I am scared to use my gold to buy crowns from strangers in fear of a ban so i hope they one day take profits out of the equation and give players a chance to enjoy certain things using real in game gold. It may even increase the gam popularity as one of the very few with that type of offering keeping older End Game Players who have gotten bored and amassed massive amounts of gold and Spur on maybe a housing Boom.

Grizzbeorn

No

ElderSmitter wrote: »

I am too Scared to buy Crowns from Someone.

Don't buy straight from a rando advertising in Zone chat.
Anyone who does so is just begging to get burnt.
It's no small wonder as to why crown selling has a bad name.

There are guilds with whom it is safe to buy crowns, either via brokered transactions (a third person acts as a liason between buyer and seller, controlling the flow of gold and items between them), or stringently-vetted solo sellers.
I am only aware of one guild at this point, Tamriel Crown Exchange, but I've dealt with them for four years, both as a seller and a buyer, and I never had a problem, nor have I heard of anyone else having one.
I trust the management team and the people who conduct the sales.



Ugh. That sounds like a pitch, but it isn't. Just my experience.
I am not very trusting of people in the video game realm, going back to the first days of multiplayer; both from my own experiences and hearing the horror stories of the types of things others have been through dealing with fellow players.
But I trust these folks (TCE).

I wouldn't associate with anyone who I thought was shady, and I certainly wouldn't offer up any such person or entity for other people to rely upon.