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Endless Archive has proven…

MindOfTheSwarm
MindOfTheSwarm
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… that ZoS has the ability, time and resources to create new skill lines outside of classes. The archive is filled to the brim with unique effects that could all be translated into a ‘Hedge Mage’ style skill line with a few balance tweaks on the damage numbers. The Flame Aura verse is a good example.

I am enjoying the archive a lot but I really think it’s about time we had some new guild/world skills that don’t feel gimmicky like the Psijic line did.

Either that or at least split up the Destro staves into unique skill lines and give us a Disease based weapon. The skill options we have outside of our classes has become stale.

Shake the boat up. Give us some new toys ZoS. We’ve been very patient.
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
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    That'll be 60 dollars, please.
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • MindOfTheSwarm
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    So be it. If the skill line is cool and original I’d pay it. Arcanist was a let down IMO. It was another class that doesn’t actually open up the game. New non class skill lines are the future if ZoS wants to maintain or even regrow its player base.
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    yeah I'm a lot more into new non-class skill lines and stuff. I'm fully convinced the only reason why arcanist was even a class and not one or more black book themed skill lines (which it demonstrably suits better) was because advertising a ''new class'' is probably a lot more appealing and therefore money-making than ''new skill line.''
    Zirasia Firemaker, imperial fire mage & sunbather _ Deebaba Soul-Weaver, argonian spirit minder & soul gem collector
    Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage noble & ayleid researcher _ Qa'Rirra, khajiit assassin & dancer
  • Kisakee
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    Is 100€ fine too? I'm more than willing to pay for good new features.
    "I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson
  • DarthCuddlefluff
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    My friend and I had this idea for two new weapon skill lines. One was like a book and one handed that allowed spellcasters to do some physical type damage, and one was a *very much missing from this game* spear/polearm skillline. I know they would have to model these things in, but if it costs $60.00 then I will pay it. Give us lots of options for looks. The spellbook doesn't even have to be a book, it can just be a focus. Think like the necromancer offhands from Diablo III aknyw0efcl21.jpg
  • Jaimeh
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    I mean, do you expect them to work and offer their product for free...

    On topic, the EA definitely has really cool new features, and I'm glad ZOS still has so much creativity in their encounter content.
  • Drammanoth
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    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    My wishlist for ESO
    I.Skills:
    >>weapons: Polearms, Unarmed, Crossbow

    >>Sorc's Twilight - perched animation

    >>a skill line - a guild having this - to enable us to increase % gold gain for donating Ornate gear (another gold sink in order to gain more pennies - but over time it would pay off)

    II.Overland Mechanics
    >>tree climing in Grahtwood / Malabal Tor / Greenshade, etc. (with tall trees)

    >>rock climbing in Glenumbra / Rivenspire / Stonefalls, etc. (with tall peaks)

    >>new skill lines - Adventure (enable climbing, increase flora and fauna harvesting chances)

    III.CP 2.0
    >>Craft Tree development

    III.Replayable content in overland
    >>pocket rifts to Oblivion - eg. to Vaermina's in Stormhaven, Boethiah's in Deshaan, Hircine's in the Rift OR in Bankgorai, etc. to get Daedric Sets relevant to the Prince, something like Oblivion rifts in Blackwood / the Deadlands

    IV.Geography
    >>Pyandonea - we had some quests WITH Maormer (Summerset, High Isle) - maybe we could meet them there? Poke poke, nudge nudge, wink wink, eh ZOS?

    V.Other
    (the ideas are also inspired by other Forum Users' posts)
    >>pet battles! We collect SO MANY pets, and yet there are just a cosmetic. What a HUGE potential lies within those tiny beats!

    >>ASOC - a new server in Asia and Oceania. If people have a bad ping there, it would be great if they had a server reaching their places more easily. And hey, it would make THREE servers, not two.

    >>possibility to dye barding

    >>display the dialogue options so that we can see which answer the NPC is reacting to

    >>a way to make Overland more challenging - for those who want
  • Kisakee
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    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.
    "I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson
  • YetAnotherLinuxUser
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    yeah I'm a lot more into new non-class skill lines and stuff. I'm fully convinced the only reason why arcanist was even a class and not one or more black book themed skill lines (which it demonstrably suits better) was because advertising a ''new class'' is probably a lot more appealing and therefore money-making than ''new skill line.''

    i would prefer it be a black book skill line. that would have been more lore friendly. def shoulda been made lke psijics skills. but a class is easier than making buncha grindy tasks so i get why its a class.
    Edited by YetAnotherLinuxUser on December 5, 2023 1:52PM
  • MindOfTheSwarm
    MindOfTheSwarm
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    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    People need to stop worrying about precious balance. Balance to some degree is needed yes. But if it becomes an obsession then it gets in the way of new content. Balance does not maintain a player base, new content does. They tried mixing it up with Tribute and it was a misfire ( I actually like playing it btw). But if one thing is proven time and time again in games like this, it is build variety. Gating it behind sets just gets old after a while. I admit balance is important but not at the expense of allowing things to get stale. Sometimes you need to shake things up and then deal with the aftermath as much as it might cause some initial upset.
  • MindOfTheSwarm
    MindOfTheSwarm
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    My friend and I had this idea for two new weapon skill lines. One was like a book and one handed that allowed spellcasters to do some physical type damage, and one was a *very much missing from this game* spear/polearm skillline. I know they would have to model these things in, but if it costs $60.00 then I will pay it. Give us lots of options for looks. The spellbook doesn't even have to be a book, it can just be a focus. Think like the necromancer offhands from Diablo III aknyw0efcl21.jpg

    I think you could ‘cheat’ if they added a Disease Staff. That way all the models already exist in game. Unarmed is also a way of getting around modelling commitments.

    Personally I think Hedge Magic is the way to go.

    Gate the skills behind a quest similar to the Psijic Skill line but less about fetching mats and more about finding lost spell books or killing certain monsters. I think a Witch Coven would be perfect for this, like a Reach Witch that tutors us in other magic that exits outside of established schools. A simple selection of skill that fulfils the theme while also providing additional skills that fit into the existing classes as alternative options in a rotation. Primarily focusing on damage but with optional tanking morphs and healing on one or two skills.

  • DMuehlhausen
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    Drammanoth wrote: »
    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    Adding all of those skills though requires tons of more balancing. You literally can have to much in a game. Also none of those are really canon in TES game. They can't have polearm then suddenly in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim that ability is gone. While they are pretty open to do things they do have things they have to follow that match with the world that was started 30 years ago.
  • FantasticFreddie
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    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    They made 3 skill lines for a class that quite literally no one asked for and thematically shouldn't even be a class. It should be a quest-based skill line like Psijic, and would have tied in beautifully as such.

    Surely they can handle ONE new universal skill line for the 10th anniversary? I wouldn't complain even if I don't use it

  • dk_dunkirk
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    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    People need to stop worrying about precious balance. Balance to some degree is needed yes. But if it becomes an obsession then it gets in the way of new content. Balance does not maintain a player base, new content does. They tried mixing it up with Tribute and it was a misfire ( I actually like playing it btw). But if one thing is proven time and time again in games like this, it is build variety. Gating it behind sets just gets old after a while. I admit balance is important but not at the expense of allowing things to get stale. Sometimes you need to shake things up and then deal with the aftermath as much as it might cause some initial upset.

    If this game's community has demonstrated anything, it's that whatever the current meta is, everyone will gravitate to it. Just look around in the game at how many Arcanists and Oakensorcs there are compared to everything else. If they ever made a class, race, skill line, or gear set have an obviously unbalanced advantage, literally everyone would run it. I mean, if you're OK with that, great, but the Oakensorc thing is annoying me, and I main one.
  • DarthCuddlefluff
    DarthCuddlefluff
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    My friend and I had this idea for two new weapon skill lines. One was like a book and one handed that allowed spellcasters to do some physical type damage, and one was a *very much missing from this game* spear/polearm skillline. I know they would have to model these things in, but if it costs $60.00 then I will pay it. Give us lots of options for looks. The spellbook doesn't even have to be a book, it can just be a focus. Think like the necromancer offhands from Diablo III aknyw0efcl21.jpg

    I think you could ‘cheat’ if they added a Disease Staff. That way all the models already exist in game. Unarmed is also a way of getting around modelling commitments.

    Personally I think Hedge Magic is the way to go.

    Gate the skills behind a quest similar to the Psijic Skill line but less about fetching mats and more about finding lost spell books or killing certain monsters. I think a Witch Coven would be perfect for this, like a Reach Witch that tutors us in other magic that exits outside of established schools. A simple selection of skill that fulfils the theme while also providing additional skills that fit into the existing classes as alternative options in a rotation. Primarily focusing on damage but with optional tanking morphs and healing on one or two skills.

    So what I was talking about wasn't a staff. It was melee based on magicka.
  • spartaxoxo
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    People need to stop worrying about precious balance. Balance to some degree is needed yes. But if it becomes an obsession then it gets in the way of new content. Balance does not maintain a player base, new content does. They tried mixing it up with Tribute and it was a misfire ( I actually like playing it btw). But if one thing is proven time and time again in games like this, it is build variety. Gating it behind sets just gets old after a while. I admit balance is important but not at the expense of allowing things to get stale. Sometimes you need to shake things up and then deal with the aftermath as much as it might cause some initial upset.

    If this game's community has demonstrated anything, it's that whatever the current meta is, everyone will gravitate to it. Just look around in the game at how many Arcanists and Oakensorcs there are compared to everything else. If they ever made a class, race, skill line, or gear set have an obviously unbalanced advantage, literally everyone would run it. I mean, if you're OK with that, great, but the Oakensorc thing is annoying me, and I main one.

    Oakensorc isn't being run because it's the best setup. It's being run because people don't want to light attack weave, but still want decent damage.

    There are better setups.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on December 5, 2023 5:27PM
  • Kisakee
    Kisakee
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    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    They made 3 skill lines for a class that quite literally no one asked for and thematically shouldn't even be a class. It should be a quest-based skill line like Psijic, and would have tied in beautifully as such.

    Surely they can handle ONE new universal skill line for the 10th anniversary? I wouldn't complain even if I don't use it

    People wanted a new class for years now and just because you don't like it being a new class doesn't mean everyone thinks the same. I love the Arcanist and it feels extremely good balanced to the point where i wish other classes would get the same love. Making a new class is also way easier as they don't have to think so much about what a skill line for all classes could probably cause for problems balance wise.
    "I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson
  • Dekrypted
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    If the implication is that I think zos shouldn't charge anything, that's just a little quirky.

    Yes zos should charge. Duh. It only adds to the large list of things the developers have to do in order to really improve the player/customer experience.

    Alot of the prices within the crown store for houses and otherwise are honestly pretty preimum. If the prices remain the same, maybe increase the limit while you're adding in the new skill line? Update/rework some old sets while adding in a new skill line? Update some of the existing class abilities and not in the way of my poor templar?

    I too would love a new skill line. A new class would be nice too, but I need something that really feels fresh. Arcanist just didn't scratch that itch for me. (Give me a monk and I'll give you my account/routing number zos. Please)
    Edited by Dekrypted on December 5, 2023 6:10PM
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    I mean, do you expect them to work and offer their product for free...

    On topic, the EA definitely has really cool new features, and I'm glad ZOS still has so much creativity in their encounter content.

    I'd expect the price of a single skill line to be like, at very most $20, if we're being serious.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Dr_Con
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.
    itsgone-southpark.gif


  • Tandor
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    Drammanoth wrote: »
    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    Are you sure they wouldn't just ask for skill line tokens?

    I know that's being cynical, and they could just switch skill points, but my concern is that a lot of today's players don't want to be hooked up for years, they just want to have new stuff for free and instantly achieved, after which they can just complain some more about the game dying.
    Edited by Tandor on December 5, 2023 7:27PM
  • FantasticFreddie
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    Kisakee wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    ...and would just create another nightmare to balance. There are pretty good reasons why they haven't done that by now and it will be tons of work to create even a single new skill line. Plus the outcry of people who dislike the weapon / fighting style chosen as you can't cater to everyone at the same time.

    They made 3 skill lines for a class that quite literally no one asked for and thematically shouldn't even be a class. It should be a quest-based skill line like Psijic, and would have tied in beautifully as such.

    Surely they can handle ONE new universal skill line for the 10th anniversary? I wouldn't complain even if I don't use it

    People wanted a new class for years now and just because you don't like it being a new class doesn't mean everyone thinks the same. I love the Arcanist and it feels extremely good balanced to the point where i wish other classes would get the same love. Making a new class is also way easier as they don't have to think so much about what a skill line for all classes could probably cause for problems balance wise.

    Oh I've been looking forward to a new class too but I think arcanist missed the mark, both from a practical and thematic standpoint.

    And as far as balance-- I won't speak too much of it in pvp, as I haven't been in pvp much since it's dropped but I DO still see a plenty of other wardens, dks, nightblades, and sorcs in pvp so I think it might be decently balanced, but pve? Pve is 6 arcanists and 2 support dds, and the arcanists annihilate the competition. They are incredibly strong, and thanks to the velothi mythic, they are dead easy and don't require LA weaving to get that damage. It's HA sorc on crack.
  • tsaescishoeshiner
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    I don't think EA proves this at all, because non-class skill lines change the balance for the rest of the game, PvE and PvP. The EA abilities only impact what's inside EA.

    But each new skill line adds to ongoing workload to keep everything balanced. Unless they do it like Psijic, where 3 of the skills are barely ever used because they're niche or had to be nerfed for balance, like Time Stop did.

    I'm sure we'll get another skill line at some point, but I'd rather more options and features within the weapon, class, and guild skill lines we already have. There are some cool assets in EA for sure.
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • CGPsaint
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    And in keeping with tradition, the new skill line would be insanely OP for a few months before inevitably being nerfed into the ground once the influx of cash tapers down to a trickle.

    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
  • IZZEFlameLash
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    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    'Inflation hit us hard, so it will be $70-100 to keep us afloat' would be more likely lol
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Warhawke_80
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    Not
    Dekrypted wrote: »
    That'll be 60 dollars, please.

    Which I'll gladly pay because I have had fun every single day I've played this game and quite frankly I can't wait to see what's next.





    Edited by Warhawke_80 on December 6, 2023 5:59PM
    ““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné
  • Amottica
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    Drammanoth wrote: »
    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    Adding all of those skills though requires tons of more balancing. You literally can have to much in a game. Also none of those are really canon in TES game. They can't have polearm then suddenly in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim that ability is gone. While they are pretty open to do things they do have things they have to follow that match with the world that was started 30 years ago.

    I agree. ESO borders, if not crosses the border, of having too much choice. That is why balancing is so much of a challenge. It is also part of the reason why there is a huge spread between the range of DPS in this game.

  • DarthCuddlefluff
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Drammanoth wrote: »
    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    Adding all of those skills though requires tons of more balancing. You literally can have to much in a game. Also none of those are really canon in TES game. They can't have polearm then suddenly in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim that ability is gone. While they are pretty open to do things they do have things they have to follow that match with the world that was started 30 years ago.

    I agree. ESO borders, if not crosses the border, of having too much choice. That is why balancing is so much of a challenge. It is also part of the reason why there is a huge spread between the range of DPS in this game.



    Honestly balancing a weapons skill line seems like a lot less work than balancing, say, a new deck in ToT or a new class.
  • DarthCuddlefluff
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    Drammanoth wrote: »
    No one expects ZOS to work for free, and let's face it, we DO pay.

    But haven't the skill lines - their number - become... stagnant? Again, crossbows, polearms, hand to hand / unarmed, some adventure guild where you increase your chances to harvest some rare alchemical ingredients, eg. Torchbug Thorax, Chaurus Eggs, etc. This would REALLY hook people up for years.

    Adding all of those skills though requires tons of more balancing. You literally can have to much in a game. Also none of those are really canon in TES game. They can't have polearm then suddenly in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim that ability is gone. While they are pretty open to do things they do have things they have to follow that match with the world that was started 30 years ago.

    So hand to hand and polearms were in previous TES games and even if they weren't there is nothing wrong with adding something new. It always baffles me how people are utterly shook by the idea of new content in a series, let alone in an MMO that has introduced most new content to TES in general.
  • BXR_Lonestar
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    … that ZoS has the ability, time and resources to create new skill lines outside of classes. The archive is filled to the brim with unique effects that could all be translated into a ‘Hedge Mage’ style skill line with a few balance tweaks on the damage numbers. The Flame Aura verse is a good example.

    I am enjoying the archive a lot but I really think it’s about time we had some new guild/world skills that don’t feel gimmicky like the Psijic line did.

    Either that or at least split up the Destro staves into unique skill lines and give us a Disease based weapon. The skill options we have outside of our classes has become stale.

    Shake the boat up. Give us some new toys ZoS. We’ve been very patient.

    Look at the big picture. EA verses could possibly be a live in-game testbed for potential bonuses that could be applied for later sets or skills
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