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An Experienced Tanks Perspective on Dungeons!
ElderSmitter
✭✭✭✭✭
Hi, all.
Many of you may have been in a Group with me running Vet DLC Dungeons as I Tank quite often. Many of you Probably have not lol.. I enjoy Tanking and try to give all players the best Dungeon Experience possible (I do have YT content i upload occasionally) Depending on contents and group make up will depend on what Tank Set i run. I carry around 4 sets give or take and am a notorious Gold Motif Mask Farmer. It is one of my Favorite things to do in DLC Dungeons especially. I am CP 3,000+ and have learned a lot about Groups. Now what I am about to say is not 100% Accurate just my Opinion. It is what I have observed running over a thousand Dungeons. (I wish we could keep track in achievements). Also being a CP Tank of 3,000+ may cause other group members to act differently to me vs a Tank in the CP 600-1500 range for instance. Lots of my Observations also come from when I am running my DPS as well. I do not have a Healer.
This is a CP perspective observation that I have not seen discussed before and wanted to share some personal experiences. My Opinions are based on Vet Dungeons NOT Normal Dungeons.
I will break this down in Segments and keep it short.
CP 50-300. Most DPS and Healers in Vet Non DLC Dungeons are new to the game and not farming gear in Vet. They have entered into a new experience and still do not even understand what Roles mean and what it also means to be in a group. They are just trying to see if this is an experience for them and testing their ability in a Vet Dungeon. They also do not understand there is even Mechanics and have never come across even the Word Mechanic. If they Pull adds or Bosses, it is not intentional. They have not yet Grasped what is really going on. I find many just want to learn and get better and are rarely Toxic at all.
CP 300-1000 This is more like CP 500-1000, but I am including 300 since I left it there. This is Probably the hardest Level for Up-and-Coming players as they are really starting to understand the game and now Entering DLC Vet content. Some have bought EXP runs to quickly ramp up others have played the game Organically and worked their way higher. I tend to find this CP level as the most Toxic of all levels in the game especially running much Harder DLC Dungeons. Most Players think they are much better than they are. Love to Pull ahead and die quickly (blaming others) and have yet been able to really explore new builds and get the most out of the CP Tree. They are a mix and Match of Potential and Toxicity because they realize they are hitting a DLC wall and are not used the next Stage of difficult dungeons. Their Emotions get the best of them in very Hard Situations and tend to Rage Quit the most, but I do notice the Players Closer to CP 300-600 range tend to tread much more carefully and follow the Tank learning as they go.
CP 1000-1800 Mostly somewhat Experienced Players. Still Surprisingly many are new to Harder Vet DLC Dungeons. You can certainly see the Pace pick up and this is where i see many Lopsided groups where 1 DPS is doing way more than a newer DPS. This is where you will see the most Players Quit if the Tank is not Experienced and cannot pull the group through Harder Content. The Healers and DPS have run enough Dungeons where Quitting is easier than pulling the lower CP or DPS thru the DLC dungeons. Many times, i have had to Switch from my DPS to a Tank to finish a dungeon with 3 players. All in all, the Toxicity is not horrible as the Quitting the dungeon theme seems to be more prevalent. I mostly see 1 DPS commenting about how much DPS they are doing over the other DPS. Or the Healer will say not enough DPS and not want to Slog thru a dungeon as I am the one Rezzing everyone.
CP 1800-2400 When the Whole group is 1800+ Very rarely ever an issue to be honest. Almost everyone has run Dungeons tons and love seeing all 4 group members as a high CP player. Very occasionally you will get a quit and usually it's because they were doing their random and wanted something they could speed thru. As a Tank this is where i start to see LESS Speed running as everyone knows what to skip already and what to do and Enjoys the Dungeons much more. The only Issue I really come across is where half the Group wants to do HM and the other Half does not or is intimidated to try. I always let the group to decide or will call it out right at the beginning of the run giving anyone who wants to leave or discuss first an option. For instance, I love doing HM March of Sac.. because i can pull it off even if everyone dies. I can Rez the Group and finish HM. Moongrave Fane though is more Mechanical and Healer really needs to know what to do. So depending on the content is really the only thing that ever causes conflicts.
CP 2400-3600 Usually any player in this Range can Pull a group by themselves as 1 dps or Healer switching to DPS and rarely is there ever an issue. Even if there is a CP 600 player Struggling i find the higher CP player will carry the group and not comment or be very friendly. I tend to find that being a Tank with a high CP brings a calming effect to the Higher CP player. They know that I know what I am doing and so they go with the flow and clear the content as if there was a group of all CP 1800++..
This is just what i have experienced and I hope many of you who have not had a great experience running Vet dungeons continue to keep running them and come across me Tanking or other Great ESO Players. There is Many More NON Toxic Players than Toxic imo.
Be Well
Regards
ElderSmitter
Many of you may have been in a Group with me running Vet DLC Dungeons as I Tank quite often. Many of you Probably have not lol.. I enjoy Tanking and try to give all players the best Dungeon Experience possible (I do have YT content i upload occasionally) Depending on contents and group make up will depend on what Tank Set i run. I carry around 4 sets give or take and am a notorious Gold Motif Mask Farmer. It is one of my Favorite things to do in DLC Dungeons especially. I am CP 3,000+ and have learned a lot about Groups. Now what I am about to say is not 100% Accurate just my Opinion. It is what I have observed running over a thousand Dungeons. (I wish we could keep track in achievements). Also being a CP Tank of 3,000+ may cause other group members to act differently to me vs a Tank in the CP 600-1500 range for instance. Lots of my Observations also come from when I am running my DPS as well. I do not have a Healer.
This is a CP perspective observation that I have not seen discussed before and wanted to share some personal experiences. My Opinions are based on Vet Dungeons NOT Normal Dungeons.
I will break this down in Segments and keep it short.
CP 50-300. Most DPS and Healers in Vet Non DLC Dungeons are new to the game and not farming gear in Vet. They have entered into a new experience and still do not even understand what Roles mean and what it also means to be in a group. They are just trying to see if this is an experience for them and testing their ability in a Vet Dungeon. They also do not understand there is even Mechanics and have never come across even the Word Mechanic. If they Pull adds or Bosses, it is not intentional. They have not yet Grasped what is really going on. I find many just want to learn and get better and are rarely Toxic at all.
CP 300-1000 This is more like CP 500-1000, but I am including 300 since I left it there. This is Probably the hardest Level for Up-and-Coming players as they are really starting to understand the game and now Entering DLC Vet content. Some have bought EXP runs to quickly ramp up others have played the game Organically and worked their way higher. I tend to find this CP level as the most Toxic of all levels in the game especially running much Harder DLC Dungeons. Most Players think they are much better than they are. Love to Pull ahead and die quickly (blaming others) and have yet been able to really explore new builds and get the most out of the CP Tree. They are a mix and Match of Potential and Toxicity because they realize they are hitting a DLC wall and are not used the next Stage of difficult dungeons. Their Emotions get the best of them in very Hard Situations and tend to Rage Quit the most, but I do notice the Players Closer to CP 300-600 range tend to tread much more carefully and follow the Tank learning as they go.
CP 1000-1800 Mostly somewhat Experienced Players. Still Surprisingly many are new to Harder Vet DLC Dungeons. You can certainly see the Pace pick up and this is where i see many Lopsided groups where 1 DPS is doing way more than a newer DPS. This is where you will see the most Players Quit if the Tank is not Experienced and cannot pull the group through Harder Content. The Healers and DPS have run enough Dungeons where Quitting is easier than pulling the lower CP or DPS thru the DLC dungeons. Many times, i have had to Switch from my DPS to a Tank to finish a dungeon with 3 players. All in all, the Toxicity is not horrible as the Quitting the dungeon theme seems to be more prevalent. I mostly see 1 DPS commenting about how much DPS they are doing over the other DPS. Or the Healer will say not enough DPS and not want to Slog thru a dungeon as I am the one Rezzing everyone.
CP 1800-2400 When the Whole group is 1800+ Very rarely ever an issue to be honest. Almost everyone has run Dungeons tons and love seeing all 4 group members as a high CP player. Very occasionally you will get a quit and usually it's because they were doing their random and wanted something they could speed thru. As a Tank this is where i start to see LESS Speed running as everyone knows what to skip already and what to do and Enjoys the Dungeons much more. The only Issue I really come across is where half the Group wants to do HM and the other Half does not or is intimidated to try. I always let the group to decide or will call it out right at the beginning of the run giving anyone who wants to leave or discuss first an option. For instance, I love doing HM March of Sac.. because i can pull it off even if everyone dies. I can Rez the Group and finish HM. Moongrave Fane though is more Mechanical and Healer really needs to know what to do. So depending on the content is really the only thing that ever causes conflicts.
CP 2400-3600 Usually any player in this Range can Pull a group by themselves as 1 dps or Healer switching to DPS and rarely is there ever an issue. Even if there is a CP 600 player Struggling i find the higher CP player will carry the group and not comment or be very friendly. I tend to find that being a Tank with a high CP brings a calming effect to the Higher CP player. They know that I know what I am doing and so they go with the flow and clear the content as if there was a group of all CP 1800++..
This is just what i have experienced and I hope many of you who have not had a great experience running Vet dungeons continue to keep running them and come across me Tanking or other Great ESO Players. There is Many More NON Toxic Players than Toxic imo.
Be Well
Regards
ElderSmitter
10
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Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen a lot of 1200+ CP players in dungeons that are very obviously quester mains and not really versed in combat or mechanics, and I do mean a lot. I don't think CP is always a good criterion, there's lots of lower CP players who know their role/fights and generally do better than higher CP players. Also, are your observations from premade/guild runs or finder runs? Because usually in premade runs I'll agree that higher CP might correlate with more experienced dungeoneer, but it's not always the case in the finder or zone, where it might be just a quester main trying to get their dailies done. Also, I think a huge part of the problem in the 300-1000 CP group comes from the fact that if they are new players (and not for eg., levelling a second account) then are more interested in the CP grind than learning their class/role or mechanics, because they think that's what will give them power (which is not the case per se, since no amount of CP can help a player if they don't know how combat works and don't practice their dps), so instead of spending the time becoming better at their role, they spend their time mindlessly grinding. I once saw a 600-700CP dps in a dungeon who was doing excellent, and I remember them saying they had stopped trying to get more CP fast, and just focused on their rotation and that's how they started growing. Anyway, I do think it's more than just CP or time played (and individual skill or 'twitchiness' also has a big part), but sadly most new players focus on either CP grind or gear grind, as if these are the magic solution to getting good, instead of actually learning and practicing their role and game mechanics. Also, I do agree with you that there are a lot more nicer players on the whole than toxic ones
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen a lot of 1200+ CP players in dungeons that are very obviously quester mains and not really versed in combat or mechanics, and I do mean a lot. I don't think CP is always a good criterion, there's lots of lower CP players who know their role/fights and generally do better than higher CP players. Also, are your observations from premade/guild runs or finder runs? Because usually in premade runs I'll agree that higher CP might correlate with more experienced dungeoneer, but it's not always the case in the finder or zone, where it might be just a quester main trying to get their dailies done. Also, I think a huge part of the problem in the 300-1000 CP group comes from the fact that if they are new players (and not for eg., levelling a second account) then are more interested in the CP grind than learning their class/role or mechanics, because they think that's what will give them power (which is not the case per se, since no amount of CP can help a player if they don't know how combat works and don't practice their dps), so instead of spending the time becoming better at their role, they spend their time mindlessly grinding. I once saw a 600-700CP dps in a dungeon who was doing excellent, and I remember them saying they had stopped trying to get more CP fast, and just focused on their rotation and that's how they started growing. Anyway, I do think it's more than just CP or time played (and individual skill or 'twitchiness' also has a big part), but sadly most new players focus on either CP grind or gear grind, as if these are the magic solution to getting good, instead of actually learning and practicing their role and game mechanics. Also, I do agree with you that there are a lot more nicer players on the whole than toxic ones
Yes, I agree that CP is not a reliable indicator of experience. Take me, for instance. I'm CP 560-ish on my PC account. That would put me squarely into that "problematic" group of players identified by the OP. What you don't see, though, are the multiple years I spent at CP cap on my PS4 account -- back when the cap was still 810.
It helps to remember that more and more experienced console players are migrating over to PC every day. Some of those low CP characters you see in your runs might actually be people who know their class and the dungeon mechanics inside and out.3 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm a little over CP 2000 and I still haven't done a vet dungeon harder than the IC ones.
On the other hand, I do think I'm as non-toxic as they come. Indeed, I sometimes pretend I'm less knowledgeable than I am; when I feel the urge to remind people of mechanics, I might pretend to be unsure and ASK whether I correctly remember what the mechanics are.
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Sockermannen✭✭✭An interesting list and a good read. I agree with alot of it and also acknowledge that there are outliers, i’ve had runs with 2k+ CP players who could barely structure a rotation. We also had a CP 400 player for a vRG HM prog a few months ago. We questioned the raid lead about it and turns out he has all trial HMs and a few trifectas on the NA server and had switched to EU because his girlfriend played there.
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LeeNordTank✭✭✭I play on PSN NA and created an account on PSN EU.
What I saw in both servers is that a lot of people just play easy content in the game.
For vet dungeons is better to pick up people in a vet trial Guild.0 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thought this thread was going to be more about Tanking in Dungeons, but it's about toxicity and CP player levels in groups?
Interesting perspective, but I'm not quite sure what the point is. Higher CP players tend to be more experienced and know mechanics. Low CP players don't usually know what's going on and mess up. This isn't universal, but just how it works most of the time.
I'm serious, all the random capitalization makes me think this is written by an AI...0