I feel like a "Casual", but am I still? (Progress in game + Community thoughts)

thehilanderb14a_ESO

It’s not like there is a set definition of “Casual” or “Veteran”, and it will mean different things to different people.

I am a “Veteran” because I have been playing since the beta, have 20 characters at CP levels all decked out in gold tier gear, have completed every quest on at least one character, and know the workings of the game well enough to advise newbies and publish character build guides as a side hobby.

But to some I am still a “Casual” because I don’t run trials or vet content except under rare exception, my play times are sporadic, I don’t play with a raiding guild that does scheduled events, I don’t chase after the “meta” builds with each new update, and I don’t regularly parse to try to get my DPS into the stratosphere.

In the end, the label of “Casual” is meaningless.

SkaiFaith

Blood_again wrote: »

What I wanted to ask: why is it important for you to identify youself between this terms?
As I can see, you enjoy your playstyle, you like challenges, you set your own goals and you rarely play in groups. I just see no use of that self-identification for you. Why?
Do you want some feedback on your playstyle? Maybe you are going to join a guild or progress group? I guess "casual or not" classification is too poor for it anyway. Your personal experience matters.

To answer you @Blood_again I wanted to know if people using the term "casual" in a bad context was referring to someone who plays like me because I feel like it is, but I can't see why anyone should be angry with me having my playstyle - what hurts them so much? These thoughts always lurked in my mind when I saw people talking badly about "casuals".

@FireBreathingNord thank you so much for your awesome comment! Sending good vibes your way~

@thehilanderb14a_ESO your comment sums it up pretty well. I would definitely not call you casual, but others would, so who cares...

Thanks everyone for the many inputs, I really appreciated it.
I still don't get how me myself could be hurting others but now I guess that: 1) not everyone that calls out "casuals" is referring to me specifically, and 2) probably the problem is more in the eyes of those who throw the term "casuals" in generalized discussions, than not in reality.

I didn't want to seem like I am the one who care and misuse these terms. Instead I agree with everyone of you that have suggested "mid terminologies" that widened the spectrum.

Blood_again

SkaiFaith wrote: »

To answer you @Blood_again I wanted to know if people using the term "casual" in a bad context was referring to someone who plays like me because I feel like it is, but I can't see why anyone should be angry with me having my playstyle - what hurts them so much? These thoughts always lurked in my mind when I saw people talking badly about "casuals".

I see. Thank you for your answer!
I've seen some people who used it in bad context. In closer look that was a simple and rude toxicity.
There is actually nothing about you and your play style in such kind of situations, if you ask me. Some people just try to solve their inner conflicts by declaring that they are somewhy better than others. Happens.

I would look more carefuly in a group play with conflict situations, where people can directly say what they expected and be angry on others play style.
Anyway I guess it is not the thing you're asking about. I see that you prefer soloing. So nevermind.

AlterBlika

I don't think you're a casual if you solo somewhat hard content. For example, if you solo something like vet blackrose (difficulty wise) it means you're good with basic game skills, care to learn mechanics, and know how to make different builds for different content. Endgame content is going to be much easier then for you

rpa

Casual is subjective.

OldStygian

If you've washed in the past 24hrs you are not a casual

Kallykat

While it seems like there is no agreed upon definition, and I don't particularly care for these labels anyway, they are thrown around quite a bit. I have found myself wondering the same thing in the past--are people who speak about casuals negatively talking about me?

I think most people would consider me casual because I don't have a very competitive playstyle, I'm not into meta builds, I play solo, and don't complete the more difficult content. Combat is just something I have to do to advance the story or get the reward I seek. However, the term "casual" never feels quite right to me because in my head it implies a lack of commitment whereas I am devoted to this game. This is my only regular game, I have been playing consistently for over 5 years, I log on basically every day, I set goals for myself though they aren't typically combat-related, I have tons of spreadsheets and lists where I keep track of my progress on my non-combat goals, and I watch content videos to get ideas for furthering my non-combat goals. I enjoy a more relaxed pace to my play, but that doesn't mean I don't take the game seriously.

I think one problem with labels like casual is that people who use the term usually have an idea of what all "casuals" are like when in reality, there are an infinite number of playstyles, and most people don't play the same way all the time anyway. No definition of the term is really going to do justice to the variety of players in this game. In addition to being confusing and inadequate, labels like casual and veteran seem to primarily serve to divide players. Let's just all agree to scrap them, okay?

Edited for clarity.

Daoin

i cannot see why you would care for terms of casual or veteran with your playstyle, for this particular game and its current state although you do not do randoms i would by your own description prefer to end up in a group with you rather than the games veterans even if i had to plan it down to to only one fact that you do your things your own way and achieve goals which makes you veteran in your own right if thats is even the right word, casual for me just means anyone that does not take the game as a profession but plays for fun which you also seem to do.

SkaiFaith

ADDRESSING THE BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: ESO'S 2022
(sorry for caps, I'm not angry, I am loving the positivity maintained in this thread, but I wanted to highlight this)

It seems to me that the general consensus is ESO's 2022 was the worst year for the game, and if I say that I enjoyed Updates 33 to 36 I "HAVE TO BE a casual".

To me 2022 was kinda the best year in ESO.
True, I don't participate in score pushing and Trial trifectas, but neither 90% of the players do (throwing a random number I suppose, guilty of me). Calling 90% of the player base "casuals" seems unfair to me, because not a single game would be maintained and supported as much if it was played by a so high percentage of "really casual" players (I'm referring in this case to those who play just a bit and leave forever maybe in 2/3 months, which I for one consider "casuals").

That's what pushed me to make this thread.

To be more specific:
I was pro AwA (even if not implemented in the best way);
I was pro Oakensoul;
I was pro Skills' duration extension and Boss health reduction;
I enjoyed the new zones...
Therefore "I am a casual". But why? It's beyond my comprehension if not because that term was simply misused, at least IMO.

Sorry for the rant but had to get it out of my chest to clarify why I asked in the first place. Didn't mean to offend anyone btw. I'm sincerely appreciating all the feedback!

Braffin

SkaiFaith wrote: »

ADDRESSING THE BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: ESO'S 2022
(sorry for caps, I'm not angry, I am loving the positivity maintained in this thread, but I wanted to highlight this)

It seems to me that the general consensus is ESO's 2022 was the worst year for the game, and if I say that I enjoyed Updates 33 to 36 I "HAVE TO BE a casual".

To me 2022 was kinda the best year in ESO.
True, I don't participate in score pushing and Trial trifectas, but neither 90% of the players do (throwing a random number I suppose, guilty of me). Calling 90% of the player base "casuals" seems unfair to me, because not a single game would be maintained and supported as much if it was played by a so high percentage of "really casual" players (I'm referring in this case to those who play just a bit and leave forever maybe in 2/3 months, which I for one consider "casuals").

That's what pushed me to make this thread.

To be more specific:
I was pro AwA (even if not implemented in the best way);
I was pro Oakensoul;
I was pro Skills' duration extension and Boss health reduction;
I enjoyed the new zones...
Therefore "I am a casual". But why? It's beyond my comprehension if not because that term was simply misused, at least IMO.

Sorry for the rant but had to get it out of my chest to clarify why I asked in the first place. Didn't mean to offend anyone btw. I'm sincerely appreciating all the feedback!

Yeah, some players use the term "casual" as response to the insult "sweatlord". Although wrong imo (there are much better words to describe people which try to destroy the game by making everything braindead easy), that's quite common around this forums.

As said before "casual" describes mostly your attitude towards the game, an antonym could be "dedicated". You are definitely the latter imo, as you honestly try to improve your gameplay. It doesn't matter how much skill you already have (we all started as noob and improved our skill starting there).

As you describe yourself, I'd say if you hit a wall in the game, you work on your build and tactics to overcome the obstacle. That's dedicated. A casual gamer would prioritize more relaxed content instead.

Regarding skill, you aren't definitely a "noob", but a veteran. Never seen a "noob" solo vCoA2. Not every veteran is playing in groups primarily tho, some do PvP, some do solo arenas.

Regarding your list I want to add, that our opinion about game changes like AwA or additions like new zones. That's a matter of taste, not of attitude or even skill.

SkaiFaith

Braffin wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

ADDRESSING THE BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: ESO'S 2022
(sorry for caps, I'm not angry, I am loving the positivity maintained in this thread, but I wanted to highlight this)

It seems to me that the general consensus is ESO's 2022 was the worst year for the game, and if I say that I enjoyed Updates 33 to 36 I "HAVE TO BE a casual".

To me 2022 was kinda the best year in ESO.
True, I don't participate in score pushing and Trial trifectas, but neither 90% of the players do (throwing a random number I suppose, guilty of me). Calling 90% of the player base "casuals" seems unfair to me, because not a single game would be maintained and supported as much if it was played by a so high percentage of "really casual" players (I'm referring in this case to those who play just a bit and leave forever maybe in 2/3 months, which I for one consider "casuals").

That's what pushed me to make this thread.

To be more specific:
I was pro AwA (even if not implemented in the best way);
I was pro Oakensoul;
I was pro Skills' duration extension and Boss health reduction;
I enjoyed the new zones...
Therefore "I am a casual". But why? It's beyond my comprehension if not because that term was simply misused, at least IMO.

Sorry for the rant but had to get it out of my chest to clarify why I asked in the first place. Didn't mean to offend anyone btw. I'm sincerely appreciating all the feedback!

Yeah, some players use the term "casual" as response to the insult "sweatlord". Although wrong imo (there are much better words to describe people which try to destroy the game by making everything braindead easy), that's quite common around this forums.

As said before "casual" describes mostly your attitude towards the game, an antonym could be "dedicated". You are definitely the latter imo, as you honestly try to improve your gameplay. It doesn't matter how much skill you already have (we all started as noob and improved our skill starting there).

As you describe yourself, I'd say if you hit a wall in the game, you work on your build and tactics to overcome the obstacle. That's dedicated. A casual gamer would prioritize more relaxed content instead.

Regarding skill, you aren't definitely a "noob", but a veteran. Never seen a "noob" solo vCoA2. Not every veteran is playing in groups primarily tho, some do PvP, some do solo arenas.

Regarding your list I want to add, that our opinion about game changes like AwA or additions like new zones. That's a matter of taste, not of attitude or even skill.

...And regarding your comment, in my eyes you've won the internet for the day 😎
Thanks for your insight!

I_killed_Vivec

I'm a casual because I play the way I want, how I want, when I want. I'm sure I could do better if I copied someone else's meta build and changed my fighting style, but I don't want to - and I don't care if that limits what I can do. And I'm really not interested in "training" to play a game.

Definitely casual.

But I'm not pro oakensoul, I'm not pro pet sorc HA builds. I'm not pro companions - if you have a companion with you then it ain't soloing. I wasn't for the timer extensions - mainly because mine are now all over the place, particularly because I cannot restrict myself to a one bar build. I have often argued here on the forum for continuous progression of characters - I loved Cadwell's, with the original VR rankings that upset so many people but gave me a sense of improvement. I wanted Craglorn to stay "hard". So by your example I suppose I'm not casual.

Indeed, I've played (probably too much) since beta, subscribing one way or another throughout. I have 10 fully maxed out chars, all master crafters. I'm a member of four guilds. I have more millions of gold than I will ever be able to spend. I solo undaunted dungeons (really solo, no companion, no pets).

I am a Master Angler!

And yet I know I'm a casual, because I play the way I want to even though I know I could accomplish more if I adopted a playing style I don't find fun. I consider myself a talented amateur, and have no desire to be a professional.

SkaiFaith

@I_killed_Vivec you are a Master Angler, you have my respect Sir.

You made me think about the term "Pro-fessional" and how it sounds like... A job. And definitely a game should not feel like a job, unless you want to end up burnt out.
Thank you for the useful input.

spartaxoxo

In most games, the majority of players are casual. It's not a derogatory term. It's just moreso about the type of activities done.

SkaiFaith

@spartaxoxo I can get that. Like, many players of arcade games or "Farmvi*" style games play casually, never caring about being defined that way by others.

I think I was misleaded by the negative way the term was used on the forum by some. Since they were blaming casuals for something they didn't like I ended up thinking about players who don't stick around but come, rant and leave, as casuals. So my own definition ended up being "biased" in the wrong way.

You are right in what you are saying... And as others have said, there's no fault in "being casuals".

spartaxoxo

A lot of people point blame at other players for all sorts of things. Sometimes earned and sometimes not. There's also toxic players of every type, both casual and vets. But also there's great players of each type too that are awesome members of the community. Praise is, in general, gonna be posted less than criticism in a forum because it's the players' chance to get devs to fix what those players personally perceives as issues with the game. But, don't let such posts get you down. It's just the nature of the forums. You'll see these types of definitions really don't matter inside the game itself, that's one of the reasons the term is so ill defined! It is what it is. Just play what you love. It's the point of the game to have fun, after all.

peacenote

For a while I referred to myself as "hardcore casual" because I have played MMOs for a long time, and I chase the hard content, but I can't play every day or for long sessions as many very dedicated players do.

But I've gotten to the point where I avoid labels or, if I need to use them to make a point in the forum, I try to remember to put "quotes" around them. Because in my personal opinion the labels are divisive to the community and tend to oversimplify complex situations. Especially when it comes to looking at the game as a whole, because not only do people play the game in different ways, they play the game in different ways as a single person depending on the day and their mood. So yes, while some people might say "I will never PvP and I despise it" and might give themselves the label of "PvE'r, " there are also lots of people that do trials and PvP, or explore the story and PvP, and within PvP some of those folks enjoy Cyrodiil or avoid Imperial City like the plague.... It's just extremely unhelpful to slap broad labels on people and then either vilify them or pretend you're speaking on their behalf. Both of which is done all too regularly around here.

So, OP, my advice would be to ignore the label altogether and think of yourself as a member of this community who likes to... [insert the ESO activities you listed here]. Definitely avoid the trap of reading about these imperfect labels, and trying to put one on yourself!

In my opinion the items you put in your list in the post above also do not split neatly into a divide between "casual" and "elite" as there were opinions on both sides for complex reasons:

• While AwA did have some detractors for endgamers (concerns about willingness of players to repeat content and stay engaged, without achievements and titles to earn per character) it also had some strong vocal supporters for it too (people who felt locked into a "dead" main due to a changing meta felt this would help revitalize their interest because they didn't "have" to get a difficult end game achievement on their under-powered main). AwA was really more about the multiple character playstyle than "casual" vs. "elite/vet/hardcore." It disrupted end game, it disrupted role players, it disrupted people who loved the deep character tracking per-character achievements provided, it broke map progress, and it erased character history. On the flip side it made titles more accessible and made it easier for people who only wanted to earn achievements once across all characters. People across the community have differing views even on whether it helped or hurt replayability, depending on whether you were overwhelmed by achievements or motivated by them.
• Oakensoul is also causing its split in the end game community. It is a huge lightning rod issue every time the build is tweaked at all and there absolutely is not a consensus amongst end-gamers about it. I can tell you as someone who primarily spends time in trials and DLC dungeons chasing achievements, I am a big fan of Oakensoul and the one-bar builds. Always have been.
• Skill duration and boss health reduction - another item that's super complex and definitely doesn't mean you are "casual" by supporting it. I'm not even going to touch the pros and cons of the skill duration debate but for the boss health reduction, keep in mind that some detractors were not in favor because they felt it was not a good enough solution to the problem -- a band aid that allowed ZoS to say they were addressing an issue they felt had more to do with one shot mechanics, raid composition, class balance, and so on. So there were people considered "non-casual" who were against the health reduction because they wanted a better solution for lowering the ceiling.
• I think we should all be able to explore the new zones without being labeled anything in particular!

I also think there is a difference between continuing to enjoy the game for yourself vs.thinking U33 - U36 were good updates for the community as a whole. I personally enjoyed the new dungeons, the new trial, and the look of High Isle. I like Ember as a companion. I did not quit the game. I found things to like in every update. But that mix of items I enjoyed certainly doesn't me a "casual" since at the top of my list are the dungeons and the trial. I personally HATED AwA and the Templar animation changes. Not sure what label hating those two items gives me. :P "Old School" maybe.

However I do think 2022 was a horrible year for ESO overall, because it truly caused many players to leave, at a rate that I personally hadn't seen before in my guilds, and across various play styles in a way that impacted the community as a whole. It is a rare day when you have both role players and end gamers complaining about the same thing! AwA was not implemented well and the community (myself included) was extremely passionate about it, only to be mostly ignored, and many people did quit over it. Then U35 was released, and the way it was handled felt like the last straw for many, and even more people quit. While I remained playing, and found things to enjoy, because this is an MMO and we are community, I believe all of those losses are bad for us all. Especially because many cases were likely avoidable -- I think there were small tweaks in implementation that could have been done, and communications that could have been given to keep a larger majority of the community happy while ZOS worked towards its goals. Also, I think a lot of the major changes that disrupted people and drove them to quit would not have caused "people on the other side" to quit if they weren't implemented, which to me makes them questionable choices from a strategic perspective. (Example, we didn't have AwA from 2014 to 2022. It's my theory that no one would have quit in 2022 if AwA was not implemented, or delayed to include some community suggestions, because the community was used to the status quo, but moving forward did cause longtime members of the community to hang up their adventuring boots. Is it worth it to make a portion of the community somewhat more happy who wasn't going anywhere but another so angry they leave? I guess only the ZOS bottom line would know for sure, but I would think not.) Therefore on a macro-level, I believe it was a horrible year for the game, but I don't think it makes me "casual" or "hardcore" or "elite" or "vet" or "professional" or anything else to take that broad view and simply believe in "the more, the merrier" for our community.

SkaiFaith

@peacenote thank you so much for your generous explanation. You are absolutely right, and I agree that losing players was bad and felt bad, even more because I remember many left after U35 'cause of "destroyed dps" while U36 fixed a lot of the mess caused to dps - in fact we still have builds with pretty much the same ceiling, maybe a bit less (130/135K is what I've always seen advised, circa).
I don't want to start talking about those things btw, we better look forward now, hoping in a better management. I'll try to stay positive and optimistic; can't wait for the stream of Update 40!

Hope you all enjoy your stay in Tamriel, each one in its own way~

Marko21xx

It's funny that the first topic I'm posting on is this one.. (just made my forum account) as I had this same issue 2 months ago.. not sure if I was "too noob for my cp" "too casual for it".. and for the amount of time I play...
I'm currently 1600.. started doing vet content as cp200 but stopped at 300 something.. only came back as 1400 because of that thought.. I mean... I could do some parkour in the game wasn't that enough? xD but joking aside.. I do have some knowledge of the game.. and I assume so have you.. I know how to make gold... bought all my dlcs with it as I don't have money to buy irl.. (rip crown store btw T.T)..
Now I started doing vet content again... joined trials and a progression team... made a build and I'm going some vet trials.. dying but I'm there to learn.. how do I feel about it? I'm loving it... not for the fact I'm stronger.. but because of the new knowledge I'm getting.. new friends I'm making doing those.. my english even improved by speaking with my team mates.. but I still don't consider myself as hardcore nor casual.. I'm just a nerd who loves the game.. the lore and most of the things in it (not you pvp)..
Are you casual? .. I don't think so... I think someone who buys all the gear, mats, carries, follow a premade build without knowing what it actually does more casual than you.. everyone has something they like in the game..if you play a lot you'll learn something other ppl may have not.. like in my case, instead of teaching ppl "here's how you get on top of vivec city wayshrine".. or "here's how to organize your inventory without having plus".. I now can teach "here's how to die in a trial".. :P

IcyDeadPeople

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I feel I'm a "Casual" because I play randomly and I have limited knowledge - I don't know many sets/skills nor mechanics and neither a single DLC Dungeon or Trial.

if you're interested in trying more dungeons or trials, you don't need to have the most hardcore build to do it. there are lots of laid back guilds as well as people forming up groups in zone chat for normal trials

SkaiFaith

@Marko21xx awesome, welcome to the Forum!


Btw - yes I'm not sharing my build publicly on the forum or socials, but I'm not "gatekeeping the knowledge". If someone asks for suggestions in game I gladly share, even if I'm not that smart about how things work in the game... I just tried to find my way and it somehow worked better than expected XD

pelle412

The terms casual vs hardcore is merely a measure of your dedication to the game. It's not a measure of skill or experience. You can be a hardcore housing decorator or a casual veteran trial runner. I used to play this game a lot and I did vet trial trifecta runs, but I don't care for that type of content anymore so I login a few times a week and do what I find fun (dungeon trifectas, maybe pledges, crafting, etc.). I consider myself a casual but I can also hold my own in advanced content. When it comes to being good at this game, if you are then you know it and you meet others who have similar goals and you get introduced to groups that does very advanced content as they enjoy it.

SkaiFaith

Just a quick follow-up



Soloed my first Dragon this morning.
It took me 5 tries and surprisingly no one showed up the entire time.

Dragons take more time and have One-Shot mechanics so I would consider them more difficult to Solo than Harrowstorms, but I get that to take multiple bosses at Harrowstorms one necessarily need a tankyer build. Still, if you do high AoE damage they're manageable more easily.

Again a big thank you to Devs for making the game more accessible. I would have never ever been able to achieve so much otherwise... ❤️

disintegr8

If not hitting 100k DPS and ignoring a lot of vet content makes you a casual, then I'm a casual. If filling your character list with viable characters and having them fully kitted and maxed out makes you a veteran, then I'm a veteran.

Depends on who you ask.