I feel like a "Casual", but am I still? (Progress in game + Community thoughts)

SkaiFaith

For those who don't want to read through: sorry but the question is really on a personal case. Reading is needed; give up on this post if not willing XD

Everytime someone use the term "Casuals" I feel it refers to me, but I don't know if I really am. Please, help me understand... here's the story:

I played on and off since 2017 and from High Isle I'm not skipping a day.
I used to die a lot and never be able to solo, despite being at the 810CP cap back then.

In recent times I made a post about achieving a solo perfect run of Fungal Grotto 1.
Then I soloed City of Ash 2 in Veteran Hard Mode.
After that I made a post about soloing Preserver of Galen, and achieved that too.

I've never ever done a Dungeon or Trial 4/12 Group run. No Random Normal and stuff.
I play PvP only in No-Proc No-CP so I can farm Transmutes while avoiding players.
I got in a Trading Guild just 10 months ago.

I used to watch Build Guides but never follow them - just wanted knowledge.
Today I discoveder my Custom Build (won't share) let me solo Harrowstorms dealing with 3 Bosses together without issues (CP 1.900+ btw) and this got me thinking...

I feel I'm a "Casual" because I play randomly and I have limited knowledge - I don't know many sets/skills nor mechanics and neither a single DLC Dungeon or Trial. I also have 0 experience in working in an organized group (which I don't want, unless I can still "play solo").

On the other hand I usually gift money and soul gems to random new players and I like to help people (group up) who ask in any zone chat for help with World Bosses.
I once took a level 5 in a Groups Dungeon (Direfrost Keep, surprisingly it's possible) and kept him alive.

I'm not able to advise anything outside my Builds, and I feel "ignorant" in many ways about the game - never used a single potion.
SHOULD I set with the fact I will always be a "Casual"? Or should I look at what I can achieve and consider myself out of the "Casual" term?
"Veteran" doesn't feel right to me... Am I wrong? But is soloing Harrowstorms really "Casual"?

Grateful if you can clear up my mind on this. Specifically, if when the community talks about "Casuals" it is referring to me or not (I genuinely don't get it).

Braffin

In my opinion "casual" don't refer to a specific skill level, but the way you play the game.

As you're interested in achieving new skill levels, improving yourself and progressing through the game, I wouldn't say you're the classic casual.

Some people use the term for players of below-average skill (For example I read about less than 20k dps to qualify as casual), when they are once again crusading against LA weaving, veteran players, combat in general and so on. But this a neglectable, although sometimes loud minority.

Kappachi

I'd definitely say casual over the fact you don't share your custom build. Players in the hardcore community communicate & share ideas with each other to improve as well as usually join each other for scheduled raids/vet dungeon farming runs/etc, part of being a hardcore/veteran player in a game is looking up information and sharing knowledge with other, as you don't look up stuff and play "randomly" as you say, you're definitely pure casual and that's fine.

SkaiFaith

Kappachi wrote: »

I'd definitely say casual over the fact you don't share your custom build. Players in the hardcore community communicate & share ideas with each other to improve as well as usually join each other for scheduled raids/vet dungeon farming runs/etc, part of being a hardcore/veteran player in a game is [...] sharing knowledge with other, [...]you're definitely pure casual and that's fine.

Oh, that's a fair point. I don't share my Build because I am afraid of it being nerfed to bottom, which would be annoying for me. I guess Veterans don't mind sharing because changing builds is part of their natural process - something I prefer to avoid.

Braffin wrote: »

In my opinion "casual" don't refer to a specific skill level, but the way you play the game.

As you're interested in achieving new skill levels, improving yourself and progressing through the game, I wouldn't say you're the classic casual.

Well, if I look at it this way, I think my "skill level" doesn't make me a Veteran, and the fact I play randomly makes me a Casual, even if I've improved myself in achievemnts. Still what you say it's true and I don't think "a pure Casual" would fight hard to be able to solo Harrowstorms...

So I'm not a casual... But I'm a casual XD
I still can't get it, but I guess it depends on the kind of player that will answer me (?)
Like... I suppose for as many would say me "you are casual" there would be many other "casuals" that would consider me Veteran (?)

wilykcat

I remember back in World of Warcraft, players will divide themselves into two groups called "Casuals" (who were players who played the game how they like, doesn't do the ranked content, has what ever builds they want, and they didn't do what was considered meta). and then there are the "Hardcore" (who were players that focused on nothing but the ranked content, pushing scores, meta builds only, showing off, live-streamed the content, and takes the game very seriously). The two groups of players in World of Warcraft were not really nice to each other and didn't want to do content in the game with each other. I was considered in between casual and hardcore. I liked doing some of the ranked content to push a score and I also had the least meta build character. That is why some players didn't want me doing dungeons and others didn't care so they invited me anyways: I did very well in those groups and nailed those mythic 20+ dungeons (on a non-meta build feral druid).

Sometimes in ESO I can either lean more towards "casual" or "hardcore" I want to have a decent build and succeed in the endgame content ( mostly veteran dungeons with a hint of PvP on the side) and also I mostly play the game for fun. I'm not sure if I'm one or the other, or if its possible to be both. I don't really like putting a label to myself based on how I play the game so technically I'm neither hardcore or casual.

I don't even know that much of what is considered in ESO to be "hardcore" or "casual" so I assume its very similar to what World of Warcraft considers.

[Edited to fix typos]

SkaiFaith

@wilykcat much relatable. I get what you are saying and I feel that way. I just don't get if people talking about "Casuals" is referring to me or not because I don't see what harm can I cause to the game playing the way I do...

wilykcat

Ok. That's understandable.

Lozeenge

these terms are often used derivatively so i wouldn't put too much thought into it. i'll even accuse myself for using them so loosely but i would like to chalk that up to just mmo lingo

IsharaMeradin

It depends on how you define casual and veteran. And I honestly do not think that those two words are necessarily at opposites.

(1a) Casual can refer to someone who learns the game as they play the game and does not seek out information from 3rd party sources.
(1b) Casual can refer to someone who plays when they are able and does not necessarily make plans to run specific content at specific times, though will jump at the chance if their RL schedule allows.

(2a) Hardcore can refer to someone who takes their game play seriously and puts in their best effort.
(2b) Hardcore can refer to someone who seeks out and implements information that will improve their game play by even the smallest of fractions.

(3a) Veteran can refer to someone who has completed everything that they wished to participate in.
(3b) Veteran can refer to someone who is actively participating in what is considered "endgame" content.

With those in mind, it is possible for someone to be a Veteran Hardcore Casual (3a+2a+1a) and fall short of being a Casual Hardcore Veteran (1b+2b+3b)

SkaiFaith

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

It depends on how you define casual and veteran. And I honestly do not think that those two words are necessarily at opposites.

(1a) Casual can refer to someone who learns the game as they play the game and does not seek out information from 3rd party sources.
(1b) Casual can refer to someone who plays when they are able and does not necessarily make plans to run specific content at specific times, though will jump at the chance if their RL schedule allows.

(2a) Hardcore can refer to someone who takes their game play seriously and puts in their best effort.
(2b) Hardcore can refer to someone who seeks out and implements information that will improve their game play by even the smallest of fractions.

(3a) Veteran can refer to someone who has completed everything that they wished to participate in.
(3b) Veteran can refer to someone who is actively participating in what is considered "endgame" content.

With those in mind, it is possible for someone to be a Veteran Hardcore Casual (3a+2a+1a) and fall short of being a Casual Hardcore Veteran (1b+2b+3b)

Really insightful, yet confusing 😂 but in a good way!

I recently solo speedrun 2 Dungeons 50+ times in 2 days just to fill sticker-book so I could improve and perfect my build. That made me feel "hardcore"... and I would argue some "Veteran Hardcore" players wouldn't do it, due to RL time restrictions at least.

SeaGtGruff

Back in my teen-age years, I became a fan of the Tao Te Ching and its philosophy of walking the middle path. I'm not saying that I always live up to that philosophy, and sometimes you do need to take a side. But as a whole I think that walking the middle path is a good philosophy to aspire to.

Labels such as "casual," "vet," "hardcore," etc. can be distractions that limit our interactions with each other and interfere with our own approaches to this (or any other) game.

I prefer to think of myself as "seriously casual" and "casually serious." While I haven't managed to solo all of the content that you have, I do enjoy tackling content that used to wipe me out pretty quickly, and in some cases I've eventually managed to clear it. But I don't keep attempting it obsessively until I master it, because I find that such an approach can be too stressful and frustrating. I'd rather try a few times, and if I can't do it after a half-dozen wipes then I prefer to just walk away so I can do something more enjoyable instead, and come back to it some other week, month, or year to try again.

SkaiFaith

@SeaGtGruff I'll give you an awesome because I've read it too a decade ago and found it interesting in the same way 👌🏻. It's harder than what one would think to maintain yourself in that sweet spot but it let you "more free" and serene.
Thanks for sharing your opinion! "Casually serious" sounds quiet fitting, and awesome XD

Amottica

Who is a casual player is very relative.

For almost every player in the game, there are players who are much more serious and push themselves harder to perform better at whatever activity they do, and others who are much less serious and are less concerned about their performance. So almost every player is a casual player to someone else.

There is nothing negative about being a casual player. Everyone is here to enjoy the game and each of us finds our own way of doing that. Who cares if someone thinks we are casual as they are likely casual based on the criteria of other players.

endgamesmug

Im not casual in that i can complete hard content that i favour and that i was very sweaty in cyrodil pvp for many years, but i am casual now because i dont do much of anything now. So to me its an everyone label really, and matters most to a certain age range and gender generally speaking when being competitive amongst your peers is an important thing.

Tannus15

I tend to break up ESO into play styles.

Trading, PvE end game, Solo content, achievements, PvP, housing, etc

of these it sounds like you fall into Veteran Solo content. Definitely not casual.

there are people with billions of gold. they are way more hardcore than me at that than I am at end game PvE with my HM clears and what not.

SkaiFaith

Tannus15 wrote: »

I tend to break up ESO into play styles.

Trading, PvE end game, Solo content, achievements, PvP, housing, etc

of these it sounds like you fall into Veteran Solo content. Definitely not casual.

there are people with billions of gold. they are way more hardcore than me at that than I am at end game PvE with my HM clears and what not.

And

Amottica wrote: »

...There is nothing negative about being a casual player. Everyone is here to enjoy the game and each of us finds our own way of doing that. Who cares if someone thinks we are casual as they are likely casual based on the criteria of other players.

This makes sense.
So, no reason to worry about yourself when you see the term "casuals" used in a negative way. Those cases really are just debatable opinions, not an objective truth.

Vulkunne

SkaiFaith wrote: »

For those who don't want to read through: sorry but the question is really on a personal case. Reading is needed; give up on this post if not willing XD

Everytime someone use the term "Casuals" I feel it refers to me, but I don't know if I really am. Please, help me understand... here's the story:

I played on and off since 2017 and from High Isle I'm not skipping a day.
I used to die a lot and never be able to solo, despite being at the 810CP cap back then.

In recent times I made a post about achieving a solo perfect run of Fungal Grotto 1.
Then I soloed City of Ash 2 in Veteran Hard Mode.
After that I made a post about soloing Preserver of Galen, and achieved that too.

I've never ever done a Dungeon or Trial 4/12 Group run. No Random Normal and stuff.
I play PvP only in No-Proc No-CP so I can farm Transmutes while avoiding players.
I got in a Trading Guild just 10 months ago.

I used to watch Build Guides but never follow them - just wanted knowledge.
Today I discoveder my Custom Build (won't share) let me solo Harrowstorms dealing with 3 Bosses together without issues (CP 1.900+ btw) and this got me thinking...

I feel I'm a "Casual" because I play randomly and I have limited knowledge - I don't know many sets/skills nor mechanics and neither a single DLC Dungeon or Trial. I also have 0 experience in working in an organized group (which I don't want, unless I can still "play solo").

On the other hand I usually gift money and soul gems to random new players and I like to help people (group up) who ask in any zone chat for help with World Bosses.
I once took a level 5 in a Groups Dungeon (Direfrost Keep, surprisingly it's possible) and kept him alive.

I'm not able to advise anything outside my Builds, and I feel "ignorant" in many ways about the game - never used a single potion.
SHOULD I set with the fact I will always be a "Casual"? Or should I look at what I can achieve and consider myself out of the "Casual" term?
"Veteran" doesn't feel right to me... Am I wrong? But is soloing Harrowstorms really "Casual"?

Grateful if you can clear up my mind on this. Specifically, if when the community talks about "Casuals" it is referring to me or not (I genuinely don't get it).

The moment you started caring this much... you stopped being 'casual'. Welcome to the table. Pit boss says your money is good here, place your bets at any time.

Trundik

Would say that casual is player without goals. Non casual player sets some goal to himself and when he reach it, he sets new. Casual player just plays. Since you get that good solo build, driven by goal, you aren't casual player, but until you keep setting goals for yourself. Once all that done and no goals anymore, you are then casual player who plays time to time without any intention to achieve something.

Shihp00

Depends who you ask.
To me, a "combat genius" will always be 1000x better than any "completionist" on this game, because they are guaranteed to carry their weight with any content they do.

Nightowl_74

I've always thought of casual players in an MMO as the people I meet who don't seem to get stressed out about getting things done, right away. I equate it with the attitude of, if it works the first time around that's great but if not there's always next time. Tomorrow, next week, next month. If you tend to work toward one specific goal until you succeed at it, then move to the next, you probably don't fit my definition of casual. If you're more likely to mix it up a lot and take your time, gradually accomplishing things here and there with an idea of what you hope to achieve but no real timetable in mind, you may. That's just my personal point of view.

Blood_again

Every time I met terms "casual or not", people used it for grouping and dividing people like making some metric and sorting people with it. For instance, "we - veterans - play veteran content, casuals play normals", or "hardcore players do weeklies, casuals don't care" or even "only casuals use proc sets, I play non-CP campaign only".

What I didn't see - any universal common definition for these terms. Each time people were asked about it, they had their own understanding of what is casual and what is not. I guess, it is a group specific term, a part of local psycological field, so every guild and every unity of players use their own criteria inside. Like "we will group for our specific activity with only cool guys" or "I'll invite hardcore players for our run. Casuals could join if we have empty slots".
That's not so bad. It is just how human grouping works. Proximity circles.

People I saw who identified themselves as casual players did it after multiple contacts with hardcore-positioned players. I take it like kind of answer "I don't want to join your AAAA-WE-RUN-FAST madness again" or something like that. So "casual" always was rather an opposition to some more active playstyle than a single term.

What I wanted to ask: why is it important for you to identify youself between this terms?
As I can see, you enjoy your playstyle, you like challenges, you set your own goals and you rarely play in groups. I just see no use of that self-identification for you. Why?
Do you want some feedback on your playstyle? Maybe you are going to join a guild or progress group? I guess "casual or not" classification is too poor for it anyway. Your personal experience matters.

freespirit

Someone who has made a build, which they will not share, for fear of it being nerfed, has in my opinion stepped out of the "casual" group of players!

That to me shows you take your play time seriously, even if it is mostly if not always solo. 💖

I do similar stuff to you but I am nowhere near at your skill level, I have 1000's of hours played and been here for ever but I have no goals and I slap on easy to obtain gear. I do what I fancy doing on any given day. ESO is my escape, a place I go to relax and therefore I prefer to remain a casual, no pressure, no commitments, no stress! 💕

Ph1p

Why does it matter whether you should call yourself a casual or not? There is no consistent definition and some people have unhelpful, pre-conceived notions about "toxic casuals" or "gate-keeping elitists". The only important thing is what type of content you like to do and what next stretch you want to accomplish, if any.

For example, you could be someone who runs veteran group content and still be a casual player, because you only play 3 hours a week with some guild members. You could have zero trial experience, but still be a hardcore housing enthusiast. You could parse 120k DPS on the dummy, but mostly focus on storylines and overland content. You could be part of a dedicated progression group, but have low requirements and only run once a week.

You seem to focus on solo play, while it's only in organized group content, where aligning expectations and ambition levels become important. But there it's better to be specific and not stick to broad labels.

spartaxoxo

Since you've asked, I would classify your described playstyle as vet. I wouldn't consider you a hardcore vet player but I wouldn't consider you a casual either.

FireBreathingNord

It sounds like you have come a long way in your ESO journey and developed skill and knowledge about the game, especially considering you are able to solo difficult content like veteran dungeons and Harrowstorms. However, you also acknowledge there are still large parts of the game you haven't experienced like trials, DLC dungeons, and organized group content.

The terms "casual" and "veteran" are not clearly defined, so it's hard to say definitively whether you fall into one category or the other. It seems you have moved beyond being a complete beginner but have not reached the experience level of many longtime players who regularly do the most challenging endgame content. Ultimately, how you identify is up to you.

The most important thing is that you enjoy the game and continue growing at your own pace. Don't worry too much about labels. There is no shame in being a casual player if that playstyle suits you. But also don't sell yourself short - you have accomplished a lot through self-determination and have room to take on greater challenges when you feel ready. Keep focusing on having fun, helping others, and achieving personal goals. The ESO community needs more positive players like you, regardless of how they identify. You'll always be welcome.

aaisoaho

I'd split the casual and hardcore by the mindset of playing. The casual side is "this is good enough for me" mentality, while being hardcore is about finding better ways to push the limits. And this can apply to any form of play.

Like trading, if you are hardcore about trading, you try to maximise your profits anyway you can. Be it flipping, finding best bang for your time when you farm and optimising your trading slots, whereas the casual approach would be to just do any content and be content with any sales you get without thinking too much about if the item would've sold for more or if the item was even worth slotting to guild stores.

Or trials, with a casual mindset, you might be aiming just to get a clear in a veteran trial, not minding about how well you performed. While the more hardcore mindset would be to analyse the run before and after it happens, to find the rooms of improvement and trying to get achievements and to push the scores.

Tesman85

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I prefer to think of myself as "seriously casual" and "casually serious." While I haven't managed to solo all of the content that you have, I do enjoy tackling content that used to wipe me out pretty quickly, and in some cases I've eventually managed to clear it. But I don't keep attempting it obsessively until I master it, because I find that such an approach can be too stressful and frustrating. I'd rather try a few times, and if I can't do it after a half-dozen wipes then I prefer to just walk away so I can do something more enjoyable instead, and come back to it some other week, month, or year to try again.

This could describe my approach, too. I do calculations about builds to find the most working ones, and do both solo and group content. I've managed to clear a few hard mode dungeons in random groups and soloed quite a few normal ones as well as world bosses. Still, I don't bother to acquire sets that are too hard to get so I'll make do with whatever is readily available (besides, one can make very nice combinations with crafted, dungeon and overland sets alone). And whenever something gets too hard, I'll just drop it and maybe come back when I have some new ideas. In a nutshell, I take the game seriously enough to want to improve and try hard content, but not enough to repeat doing something that isn't fun just for getting some piece of gear or bragging rights. So, "seriously casual" is a perfect moniker. After all, hardcore and casual aren't the only possible options. It's a sliding scale with side paths, so those words are quite fluid.

Aislinna

Years ago I was told that the first time you read the game forum or watch a content streamer's video, you are no long "casual", as you are trying to learn and improve. Take it for what it is, I don't care to put myself into some labeled box, as boxes are limiting.

Tenthirty2

SkaiFaith wrote: »

...
Grateful if you can clear up my mind on this. Specifically, if when the community talks about "Casuals" it is referring to me or not (I genuinely don't get it).

Funny thing labels.
Honestly I think people put too much value on them and labels are a horrible way to define things as their meaning can change from person to person.

Labels are a necessary convenience sure, for some things. Otherwise communication would take way too much time.
But they are too often used because people don't want to fire extra neurons to actually DEFINE a thing using it's elements or qualities. DESCRIBE it so there is more meaningful communication.
It's so much easier to slap a label on something than to consider it's unique qualities.

So, based on what you describe you have done I would say you are a long-time experienced player with several impressive and notable accomplishments and advanced game knowledge.
Of course you don't want to use that each time, its exhausting. So sum it up with saying you are an "experienced" player, which works for most people.

But "casual"?
In an MMO like this wth does that even mean? It's SO subjective it can't be used with any accuracy.

Casual according to most dictionaries means, relaxed, no formality.
If a person plays and just wanders around, no set plans or time frames with anything, not concerned about gaining experience quickly. I suppose that could be considered casual.

My game experiences are similar to yours. I trade regularly, solo as much "group" content as I can, done vet HM dungeons, etc. But I wouldn't call that "hardcore" or "casual".
If I had to nutshell it I would describe both of us as "experienced" or "advanced" players.

Someone who has done many vet trials may look at what we have done and think we are "casual", but again it doesn't really fit does it? We're just not as advanced in game-content as they are.

Using terms like "Casual" are more accurate when you narrow the scope of what you are trying to label.
Take something like Tales of Tribute.
I enjoy it, I've only played NPCs and gotten an advanced rank since the content launched. But I only play once in awhile when the mood strikes me, like fishing. Don't play every day or even every week.

I would describe my ToT playstyle as "casual" Whereas a player who plays every day against NPCs and players both and works to advance their standing on the leaderboards I would consider more "hardcore".

But trying to label someone as an MMO player with "casual" or "hardcore" just doesn't work. There is way too much variety for activities in the game, way too broad a scope.

Personally my advice? Don't worry about the term(s). You know what you know, you've FELT your accomplishments.
You're an experienced, accomplished player

EDIT: wording

Aelorin

Someone that can solo Harrowstorms has lost his 'Casual' title, at least it feels that way to me.

chessalavakia_ESO

It gets confusing because, the amount of effort and efficiency that people put into games has spiked.

When I first got into gaming, being good generally just meant that you just played a ton.

Thus, if you played occasionally, you weren't going to be any good generally and if you played a bunch you probably would be.

The hardcore/veteran and casual separation was basically about time

Nowadays, being good at a game leans more heavily on mechanical skill and knowledge from third party sources rather than just playing the game.

As a result, you can have a playtime that would have put you in the hardcore/veteran category in the past without necessarily having the skill set to be considered as one of them.