Here we are again talking about Templar

Dekrypted · July 10

So is this it? Nightblades again are getting this much love and Templars after the myriad of nerfs, buffs that wern't really needed compared to the fact that while per whatever mythical spreadsheet says that the "damage is in line with other classes", it just just feels like it's lacking.

Does the damage remain in line when it's possible to run 9.5k spell damage and 22k armor penetration only to see the ability hit 5k and get out damaged by proc sets like Way of Fire and Master Dual Wield?

Templar "Changes"

Nightblade "Changes"

Look at the literal size difference. I had to zoom out just to capture it all in one screenshot. More love for Templar and Necromancer. For the love of Akatosh, nerf Rush of Agony.

Thanks for fixing a visual bug I in my 20,000 hours of playing Templar didn't notice. Hope there's more in week 3.

Dekrypted · July 10

Don't worry, a new class giving everyone Minor Evasion reducing templar's damage after we reduced Jabs damage while also removing an entire Jab all makes sense. Let's give Nightblade some more love. The spreadsheet says otherwise.

Y'all are killing me here. It's gotten better, but it just doesn't feel great compared to some of these other classes. Play the game and see for yourself. If you don't want to, join some Discords or streams and ask the people who are playing the classes. It's not hard to see who's full of it and who actually cares.

(Forgot to ping @ZOS_Kevin)

Dekrypted · July 10

Before I forget as well, because I'm not going to come back here for a little bit, add a ramping cost increase to cloak. Thanks.

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

Yeah, it’s pretty amazing how Templar got a pass yet again.

What was once the best support class in the game… now provides nothing unique.

Why make a Templar healer or tank when every other class does it better?

Not to mention the class still lacks any fun gameplay strategy whatsoever… you can’t build up Molten Whip stacks, you can’t build up Bound Armaments, and you certainly can’t build up a Spectral Bow. Templar lacks any ability mechanics like Corpse use, and definitely has nothing like Crux build up. The class feels extremely vanilla, where you can hop on a Warden and do everything a Templar does, just better.

lQrukl · July 10

Change that garbage jabs animation at least!
That is (literally) holy ***, that doesn't let me enjoy my beloved class for a YEAR

Dekrypted · July 10

At this point, I could care less about the animation. Just make the class not feel depressing. At this point, there's no point in using the skill. Lack of class identity? My wrecking blows hit harder.

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

lQrukl wrote: »

Change that garbage jabs animation at least!
That is (literally) holy ***, that doesn't let me enjoy my beloved class for a YEAR

It’s so strange how they haven’t gone 100% with one spear type or the other…

If they like the new spear, put it on everything, or give us the old one back. It doesn’t look great when you have two different spear animations.

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

Dekrypted wrote: »

At this point, I could care less about the animation. Just make the class not feel depressing. At this point, there's no point in using the skill. Lack of class identity? My wrecking blows hit harder.

Yeah, I haven’t used Biting Jabs in over a year. When you can combine Crushing Weapon with Snipe or slap on a 2h and D-Swing, there’s no point to it. Minor and Major Evasion are way too strong right now.

Dekrypted · July 10

What doesn't make sense is to call it "Biting" jabs only for it to have no bite. You call it "Puncturing" Sweeps for it to not puncture anything.

Make biting jabs apply an extra stack to burning light to make it proc faster. Burning light already got nerfed.

Make Sweeps have unique pen at the end of its channel that lasts for 3 seconds.

Enough with the animation talk. Get on to working with what's here.

Stx · July 10

I haven’t played Templar since the animation change and I don’t think I can. They are hoping everyone just forgets about it with time. For me personally, it ruined the class. I can’t enjoy it anymore and since they haven’t added any new skills or major changes in years, I’m playing something else now. Obviously I would welcome any improvements to Templars at this point but to get me to play again the animation needs to be addressed. It is very poor quality.

IncultaWolf · July 10

I've heard templars are good at standing still and holding block in pvp

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

Dekrypted wrote: »

What doesn't make sense is to call it "Biting" jabs only for it to have no bite. You call it "Puncturing" Sweeps for it to not puncture anything.

Make biting jabs apply an extra stack to burning light to make it proc faster. Burning light already got nerfed.

Make Sweeps have unique pen at the end of its channel that lasts for 3 seconds.

Enough with the animation talk. Get on to working with what's here.

Right, or we could get a much needed buff to how the class synergizes with the rest of the group.

Healing used to be the defining factor for Templar as no other class could do it effectively, now every class does it while providing all kinds of group Minor and Major Buffs that are an ESSENTIAL part to every support build.

Arcanist got a better Radiant Aura through their giant rune they can throw on the ground to give the whole group every Minor resource buff while ALSO giving Minor Courage.

Every other class provides unique buffs to the group, while Templar has nothing, not even a unique Penetration buff like Crystal Weapon.

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

Speaking of which, does anyone run Radiant Aura now?

Oakensoul is a thing that passively gives all of those resource buffs, you can also get those Minor buffs from other class abilities like Refreshing Path or that new Arcanist rune that have other uses aswell?

Like a HoT Major Expedition or Minor Courage?

lQrukl · July 10

Stx wrote: »

I haven’t played Templar since the animation change and I don’t think I can. They are hoping everyone just forgets about it with time. For me personally, it ruined the class. I can’t enjoy it anymore and since they haven’t added any new skills or major changes in years, I’m playing something else now. Obviously I would welcome any improvements to Templars at this point but to get me to play again the animation needs to be addressed. It is very poor quality.

Can't belive that zos can't make quality animation of main templar skill for a YEAR! I always tought that was just a dummy animation for the first time after jabs rework (4->3 hits), but now it looks like just a bad joke

lQrukl · July 10

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Speaking of which, does anyone run Radiant Aura now?

Yes, it's bis for ball group setup, the only reason why templars are even usefull in PvP group content

fred4 · July 10

The lightning staff change is an indirect buff to templar. That weapon type will now buff both Sweeps and Radiant. Dual wield and 2H both got slight nerfs in so far as they power class skills. Maybe that isn't much, but as an occasional PvP templar and PvE templar DD main who prefers the lightning staff because the light attacks are ranged, and to restore magicka with, I have to acknowledge that this change will work for me.

Redguards_Revenge · July 10

Look I am giving up on templar...most of the moves transfer easily over to NB and are far better.

Templar healing? please, I can cloak and get a guarnteed crit heal.
Templar damage? please get backlash cleansed, while I can hit the same damage if not more with spectral bow.
Templar tanking? Please while you sitting there visible and getting wailed on, i get 24/7 crit buff up and leave to heal lol.

I asked myself something? Why the heck am I playing templar? Vampire NB is the S tier pvp class. Now I can stop playing my Redguard Templar that I've played since beta, I can move on to a far more powerful class and go from average to pro in a couple of hours.

The best news is that the base game/ crafted sets I use without mythics I can put on NB now drop anybody down. Templar redguard I had to sacrifice a lot. Just to be average. There were 2 things that was stopping me as a templar they removed that from NB.

Crit is wishy washy. Templar can't heal can't burst because crit just didn't do anything. 33% is like 50% as a templar. Having a guaranteed crit on NB is going to be helpful. Having over 60% all the time is also helpful.

I don't want to be redguard anymore anyways, being forced to vampire ruined any other reason why I would play redguard.

I am moving on up!!!

QuasiGumbo · July 10

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Yeah, it’s pretty amazing how Templar got a pass yet again.

What was once the best support class in the game… now provides nothing unique.

Why make a Templar healer or tank when every other class does it better?

Not to mention the class still lacks any fun gameplay strategy whatsoever… you can’t build up Molten Whip stacks, you can’t build up Bound Armaments, and you certainly can’t build up a Spectral Bow. Templar lacks any ability mechanics like Corpse use, and definitely has nothing like Crux build up. The class feels extremely vanilla, where you can hop on a Warden and do everything a Templar does, just better.

The build up is supposed to be backlash and its morphs, but they nerfed the damage scaling into the ground and partially fixed it while claiming the damage is "in-line with other classes" and last patch they state they want templars to retain a weakness. It really feels like heavy favoritism for nightblade/DK

MashmalloMan · July 10

They really just need to spend time on a patch going 100% over the class kit synergy's. Like really do a hard pass over everything instead of this, change 1 skill at a time thing every 3-6 months. Like what is a Templar suppose to be, what skills bounce off of each other?

Playing Arcanist over the past week has really highlighted how well thought out their passives and skills are. I've been purchasing everything. The main glue that binds the class together is Crux, it's not a diffcult concept, it's not hard to keep up, but it's rewarding to play around.

Especially the new dynamic cost scaling meaning you're picking a morph based on the effect instead of a green or blue number. There is still a place for non scaling, but having a few key skills that do really open the class up.

A lot of the classes have passives that only work for the skill line they come from, then there is Arcanist. Flat 18% stam/mag regen. 225 mag/stam when they get a crux which can happen passively or very easily via a few key skills. 3% healing done per crux instead of having to slot a bunch of heal tree skills on the bar. Minor Group buff for just using any class skill instead of having to use a specific skill line. It's woven into everything they do - feels good.

Quaesivi · July 10

I feel like even the simplest things they can do, they don't.

Now everyone has a 'buff regardless on which bar' skill. or decent buffs.
Templar has none of it, or tied to 1 specific morph, that either stam gets it, or mag, but not both.

What gives?

Tyrant_Tim · July 10

lQrukl wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Speaking of which, does anyone run Radiant Aura now?

Yes, it's bis for ball group setup, the only reason why templars are even usefull in PvP group content

Radiant Aura? In Ball Groups? Why would you not just run Refreshing Path and give them all Major Expedition for free on top of what Radiant Aura does… any decent ball groups are running Snowtreaders, so they could use the movement speed.

James-Wayne · July 11

I just want them to change some of the lacking Templar skills to be Tank focussed, give us a CC back and/or magicka chain pull ability maybe on one of the Sun Shield morphs

maxjapank · July 11

fred4 wrote: »

The lightning staff change is an indirect buff to templar. That weapon type will now buff both Sweeps and Radiant. Dual wield and 2H both got slight nerfs in so far as they power class skills. Maybe that isn't much, but as an occasional PvP templar and PvE templar DD main who prefers the lightning staff because the light attacks are ranged, and to restore magicka with, I have to acknowledge that this change will work for me.

Agree. Lightning staff should do very well on a Templar. For an Arcanist, too.

gariondavey · July 11

Well said.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert
Please guys...its been a year now. It is so disingenuous to continue buffing classes (nb for example) that are already overperforming in pvp, while not doing anything substantial for classes that are severely lacking (templar, necro).

In a complete no proc set up (ravenwatch/no pc ic) I can have a 20.5k tooltip with rapid strikes on my stam sorc.
On my templar my jabs won't have anywhere near that tooltip, AND is reduced by major and minor evasion by 30%.

Templar jabs is severely lacking. Please make it single target like rapid strikes, with an aoe splash component.
POTL is still lacking. Please rework it to be like haunting curse.

Please, for the love of all mankind, put some time into focusing on a class that hasn't received buffs every single patch for a year (nightblade).

Thanks.

radiostar · July 11

Z has hated on Temps for years, both PVE and PVP. Period.

James-Wayne · July 11

radiostar wrote: »

Z has hated on Temps for years, both PVE and PVP. Period.

Gilly mains a night blade so ilits expected they get buffs and I thought Rich plays stamplar but maybe he has changed class now so no one runs Templar anymore.

Templar tank needs to be focused on first to compete with DK which has had no real competition for tank since 2014. Templar is perfect for a proper tank spec, we just need some utility.

Tyrant_Tim · July 11

James-Wayne wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Z has hated on Temps for years, both PVE and PVP. Period.

Gilly mains a night blade so ilits expected they get buffs and I thought Rich plays stamplar but maybe he has changed class now so no one runs Templar anymore.

Templar tank needs to be focused on first to compete with DK which has had no real competition for tank since 2014. Templar is perfect for a proper tank spec, we just need some utility.

This, 1,000%.

Blazing Shield isn’t cutting it, and the class has no immobilize abilities, no pull abilities and it provides no Major Buffs to the group.

mmtaniac · July 11

Still templar passives not addresed i mean especially Illuminate and Prism is 2 passives (DK have it in 1) and still we have useless soul gem passives wchich can be some unique buff for whole team after activate healing spell with secondary effect with soulgem.

Tyrant_Tim · July 11

Maybe one day they will make a Paladin class. Because this one just isn’t it.

lQrukl · July 11

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Speaking of which, does anyone run Radiant Aura now?

Yes, it's bis for ball group setup, the only reason why templars are even useful in PvP group content

Radiant Aura? In Ball Groups? Why would you not just run Refreshing Path and give them all Major Expedition for free on top of what Radiant Aura does… any decent ball groups are running Snowtreaders, so they could use the movement speed.

Because. Same reason why not use warden instead. Decent ball groups focus on aoe buff effects then ground, templar has the most convenient sustain buffs (+good burst aoe heal). It does not mean that ball groups does not use speed buffs, but they take it from other sources like Rapid

Major_Soulless · July 11

i still use my templar mainly cause i run a kvatch execute build and its works beautifully with jesus beam. but as someone who has played templar for 5 years i can say its the dullest class on the game hell we dont even have a class skill to get maor sorcery we have to use destruction from mages guild which is stupid.

and our class shield needs improving as well it seems to be the weakest of all class shields (and yes even with our healing a better shield would be nice especially as we have no real cc immunity )