Tri-Focus passive on Sorcs is overperforming.

RaikaNA

As of late the passive "Tri-focus" on sorc using a heavy attack with the lightning staff is overperforming. It's imitating the Plaguebreak set prior to the Nerf.

This was taken in Imperial City... non-CP IC.

SeaGtGruff

LOL -- "Impen really really really really helps." Haven't noticed that before.

RaikaNA

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LOL -- "Impen really really really really helps." Haven't noticed that before.

Yeah... doesn't help when a passive is overperforming.

NoSoup

Umm, its not over performing. It's the bread and butter of heavy attack lightning staff builds. You know you can roll dodge that final tick?

RaikaNA

NoSoup wrote: »

Umm, its not over performing. It's the bread and butter of heavy attack lightning staff builds. You know you can roll dodge that final tick?

It should not be imitating the plague break set that was nerfed for doing exactly what this passive is doing now. In fact, what the tri focus passive is doing now is by far worst than what the pre-nerf PB was doing... the monsters do not require death for the passive to proc.

No passives should be doing this much damage.

Here's a video https://youtu.be/I6CrV6umo_8 to further prove my point that tri-focus is overperforming.

WrathOfInnos

I've heard it is bugged and the splash damage is unaffected by battle spirit if the primary attack is on an NPC. If that's true it could be fixed easily without affecting PVE.

SaffronCitrusflower

It's not just sorcs that the passive is over performing with. It's all classes.

Dagoth_Rac

This is a known issue that has been pointed out in hundreds of threads. Any attack with "splash damage" will ignore Battle Spirit if original attack hits an NPC and it splashes onto a player character. Either ZOS are cool with this and think "back away in PVP if you see an NPC near you getting hit with a lightning beam", or it is a pain to fix and they don't want to promise anything yet. ZOS are notoriously tight-lipped and it can be hard to tell the difference between "we don't care" and "we care, but fix is only 99.99% done and we are not saying anything until it is 100% fixed and in the patch notes".

Jamie_Aubrey

ooh this is still bugged, good to know

*equips Lightning Staff*

DarthCuddlefluff

Do you actually have impen gear on? idk if it displays that either way, or just if you don't have like 2k crit resist. I don't PvP much.

RaikaNA

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

Do you actually have impen gear on? idk if it displays that either way, or just if you don't have like 2k crit resist. I don't PvP much.

Even if I didn't have impen gear on... why on earth would a weapon passive be damaging me for that much without the player actually doing dmg to me? The enemy player was using a lightning staff on a NPC (An IC Boss) which caused me to take substantial damage. ZOS Nerfed PB to the ground for doing this.

According to Google other people also complained about this.

DarthCuddlefluff

RaikaNA wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

Do you actually have impen gear on? idk if it displays that either way, or just if you don't have like 2k crit resist. I don't PvP much.

Even if I didn't have impen gear on... why on earth would a weapon passive be damaging me for that much without the player actually doing dmg to me? The enemy player was using a lightning staff on a NPC (An IC Boss) which caused me to take substantial damage. ZOS Nerfed PB to the ground for doing this.

According to Google other people also complained about this.

Well, can't it crit on you anyway?

DarthCuddlefluff

RaikaNA wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

Do you actually have impen gear on? idk if it displays that either way, or just if you don't have like 2k crit resist. I don't PvP much.

Even if I didn't have impen gear on... why on earth would a weapon passive be damaging me for that much without the player actually doing dmg to me? The enemy player was using a lightning staff on a NPC (An IC Boss) which caused me to take substantial damage. ZOS Nerfed PB to the ground for doing this.

According to Google other people also complained about this.

I'm not trolling you or being mean-spirited. I genuinely am asking because I don't know. You seemed frustrated and I am trying to help.

CameraBeardThePirate

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks is also bugged in the same way.

jaws343

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

CameraBeardThePirate

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

Amottica

RaikaNA wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LOL -- "Impen really really really really helps." Haven't noticed that before.

Yeah... doesn't help when a passive is overperforming.

So you’re running with a decent level of impen?

jaws343

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

The_Lex

Yep...this issue has been raised with the devs multiple times. Doesn't seem like they want or care to do anything about it.

Necrotech_Master

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I've heard it is bugged and the splash damage is unaffected by battle spirit if the primary attack is on an NPC. If that's true it could be fixed easily without affecting PVE.

i believe it was noted the trifocus passive does not take battle spirit into account because normally the lightning staff dmg itself is taking a battle spirit hit when hitting a player

so if battle spirit was applied to trifocus, then heavy attacking a player would be double dipping on that

i think the current situation is one of those niche "unintended consequences" cases that the devs didnt forsee when they tried to split up empower and HA sets to be pve only and probably forgetting something like IC existed lol

RaikaNA

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »

Do you actually have impen gear on? idk if it displays that either way, or just if you don't have like 2k crit resist. I don't PvP much.

Even if I didn't have impen gear on... why on earth would a weapon passive be damaging me for that much without the player actually doing dmg to me? The enemy player was using a lightning staff on a NPC (An IC Boss) which caused me to take substantial damage. ZOS Nerfed PB to the ground for doing this.

According to Google other people also complained about this.

I'm not trolling you or being mean-spirited. I genuinely am asking because I don't know. You seemed frustrated and I am trying to help.

My apologies if you thought my post was passive-aggressive. Yes, Im frustrated so perhaps that's why my post seems hostile.

Alienoutlaw

there is no context to this screenshot, what was you resistances, mitigation etc etc a random screenshot deosnt prove a thing, you cant ask to nerf something just because you got hit hard with it.

RaikaNA

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is no context to this screenshot, what was you resistances, mitigation etc etc a random screenshot deosnt prove a thing, you cant ask to nerf something just because you got hit hard with it.

ZOS just nerfed PB down to the ground for doing the same exact that TriFocus is doing now. A passive aint suppose to be 1 shooting people.

CameraBeardThePirate

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

jaws343

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Braffin

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Trifocus doesn't need to be touched if the initial target is an enemy player, but if the original target is a PvE mob it definitely has to be battle-scaled (or even deactivated against players to keep things simple).

jaws343

Braffin wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Trifocus doesn't need to be touched if the initial target is an enemy player, but if the original target is a PvE mob it definitely has to be battle-scaled.

Sure, but not a single skill does that in game now.

Would you rather they make empower not work with battle spirit? Or try to implement a new skill function design they've never done before?

Disabling empower with battle spirit is a tried and true approach to skill use.

Trying to add in if/then to battle spirit checks on splash damage is more likely to just break things. As it is something they haven't done before.

CameraBeardThePirate

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Intended and desired mean the same thing. Tri-Focus is not doing either, unless targeting a player. I'm not sure why you're picking this hill to die on. Tri-Focus does not work as intended when targeting a mob, as it is allowing modifiers only intended for mobs to hit players.

Empower already only works against mobs, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that's what needs to be changed. Fix Tri-Focus.

Braffin

jaws343 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Trifocus doesn't need to be touched if the initial target is an enemy player, but if the original target is a PvE mob it definitely has to be battle-scaled.

Sure, but not a single skill does that in game now.

Would you rather they make empower not work with battle spirit? Or try to implement a new skill function design they've never done before?

Disabling empower with battle spirit is a tried and true approach to skill use.

Trying to add in if/then to battle spirit checks on splash damage is more likely to just break things. As it is something they haven't done before.

They could simply make a distinction like this: If the original target is a player, trifocus is only applied to players, but doesn't affect npc. If the original target is a npc, trifocus is only applied to npc, but doesn't affect players. That's quite easy to code and similar has be done many times in this game.

This way the issue is easily solved and nobody harmed except the exploiters.

jaws343

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Intended and desired mean the same thing. Tri-Focus is not doing either, unless targeting a player. I'm not sure why you're picking this hill to die on. Tri-Focus does not work as intended when targeting a mob, as it is allowing modifiers only intended for mobs to hit players.

Empower already only works against mobs, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that's what needs to be changed. Fix Tri-Focus.

Tri focus was literally designed to work the way it currently works. Intended.

The desired effect is what you are describing. You desire it not to work the way it was intended to work.

The reason for that desire is that the adjustment to empower has made the intended effect overperform.

None of this describes a bug at all.

Empower should be disabled with battle spirit because the actual problem is empower.

CameraBeardThePirate

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's not overperforming - it's outright bugged. Tri-Focus bypasses battle spirit, so all of those nerfs to remove Heavy Attack sets and Empower from PvP mean nothing. You can stack tons of heavy attack damage against mobs and kill players with the passive since none of the damage will be mitigated.

It's egregious that this has been in the game for going on 2 years now. It's not balanced, actively goes against rules for combat that ZOS has put in place, and has little to no counterplay besides "Don't farm bosses lol". Those ticks on your recap are even low - I've seen as high as 45k damage in 2 dot ticks and another 30k from the final tick.

The 2h passive that applies splash damage to your light and heavy attacks are also bugged in the same way.

But it bypassing battle spirit is intentional, not a bug. It is done that way to prevent double dipping battlespirit against the passive.

All they need to do is disable empower with battle spirit. Leave the actual functioning properly passive alone

And as I've said before when you've made this same reply on other posts, it is only supposed to bypass Battle Spirit if the initial target is a player. If the initial target is a mob, it should still be going through Battle Spirit before damaging players in the area but it doesn't.

It is not functioning properly in that circumstance. No damage should ever bypass Battle Spirit completely, especially if that damage includes modifiers that aren't even supposed to affect players in the first place.

That is not how those mechanics have ever worked.

Battle spirit is always applied on the initial damage and damage dependent on that is applied without.

In this case, they ramped up the damage against NPCs.

The way the passive and other damage abilities like it function remain unchanged.

You guys keep calling it a bug, as if it isn't performing exactly how it is supposed it perform.

It is performing as expected. That is not a bug.

Should it be adjusted? Yes. Should it be done at the passive level? Absolutely not. You would effectively make the passive worthless to fix a simple empower adjustment. Because there are ZERO damage dependent secondary damages that have different battle spirit effects. They all only apply battle spirit against the initial damage source to prevent the splash damage from being reduced by battle spirit effectively twice.

Except it isn't performing exactly how it's supposed to perform. It isn't supposed to tick on players for well over 20k a tick.

If you write code and have a logic error, the code is working as written. That doesn't mean it's working as intended, and logic errors are still considered bugs. Just because things aren't supposed to be double hit by Battle Spirit doesn't mean that they should completely bypass Battle Spirit either. Heavy Attack modifiers that are supposed to only work on mobs are never supposed to work on players. Damage against players should always be reduced by Battle Spirit. Tri-Focus currently breaks both of those rules.

It is working as intended. Not as desired. Important distinction.

There is no bug here. Trifocus has always worked like this, by design.

Trifocus does not need to be touched. Only empower needs to be adjusted here.

Intended and desired mean the same thing. Tri-Focus is not doing either, unless targeting a player. I'm not sure why you're picking this hill to die on. Tri-Focus does not work as intended when targeting a mob, as it is allowing modifiers only intended for mobs to hit players.

Empower already only works against mobs, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that's what needs to be changed. Fix Tri-Focus.

Tri focus was literally designed to work the way it currently works. Intended.

The desired effect is what you are describing. You desire it not to work the way it was intended to work.

The reason for that desire is that the adjustment to empower has made the intended effect overperform.

None of this describes a bug at all.

Empower should be disabled with battle spirit because the actual problem is empower.

I dont think you understand what the words "intended" and "desired" mean.

Desired:
adjective
strongly wished for or intended.

Disabling empower with battle spirit also wouldn't fix the problem. Sets that are only supposed to boost heavy attacks against mobs are affecting players due to Tri-Focus. Tri-Focus is the problem.