The Mount from the new expansion require you to have other dlcs? Really?

FabresFour

I find it very predatory that the achievement to unlock this mount requires the player to have at least 2 other dlc's and an expansion. (at least 6,5k crowns) (the leads drops in bal sunnar, lost depths and you need greymoor).

Until then "Savior of (dlc or expansion names) required the player to make the content of that, and only that area. However, this time, when placing a really interesting reward, the player must acquire other contents to have access to these rewards.

In reality, seeing the practice more seriously: For the player to make 100% of the achievements related to the Necrom ZONE, he must have access to other dlc's.

From my perspective, this practice is predatory and dangerous to the future of the game, and has the glaring potential to turn off new players. I am very concerned about the future of ESO.




I've edited the post to be less confusing and to point directly to what, from my perspective, is the main problem with this thread.

FabresFour

The very description of the achievement shows how horrible this practice is: "Acquire the mythic items discovered by the antiquarian circle during your adventures on the telvanni peninsula and in Apocrypha".

And you need to do dungeons outside Telvanni peninsula and Apocrypha. Seriously ZOS, disappointing!

dragonlord500

ya.... now that I see this it was a very VERY bad move by Zos....

TaSheen

What mount is this?

FabresFour

TaSheen wrote: »

What mount is this?

Berylglow Nix-ox Steed

GooGa592

FabresFour wrote: »

Honestly I found it pretty predatory to say that the mount is free with the expansion... Since to get it you need leads that drop in dlc dungeons outside of Necrom, and on top of that, you need Greymoor.

That is: You need at least 6,5k crowns in dlcs if you don't have ESO Plus.
(the leads drops in bal sunnar, lost depths and you need greymoor).

Achieving this sort of thing should only, and ONLY be related to expansion and base game, especially if it's a live-advertised point of sale like ZOS did. I found it revolting. Be better, this is extremely disrespectful in my opinion....

Wow. Doesn't this kind of business practice violate some consumer protection law in the EU?

LunaFlora

yea i find it weird that the new mythics have to be obtained for this mount and weird that the new mythics even have achievements.

TaSheen

FabresFour wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

What mount is this?

Berylglow Nix-ox Steed

Ah. Thanks. Not interested - I don't DO bugs.

EramTheLiar

I thought the mount that was free with the chapter was the Hermitage Servitor.

NettleCarrier

I'll be honest, I hadn't read the achievements yet and this is the first time I'm hearing about this mount. I don't remember this being advertised, nor do I see it mentioned on the store page or UESP. Where did they advertise this as something that would affect a purchase decision?

meekmiko

EramTheLiar wrote: »

I thought the mount that was free with the chapter was the Hermitage Servitor.

That's only if you bought the Deluxe Edition of Necrom.

EramTheLiar

meekmiko wrote: »

EramTheLiar wrote: »

I thought the mount that was free with the chapter was the Hermitage Servitor.

That's only if you bought the Deluxe Edition of Necrom.

Ahhhh, OK. In that case, yeah. Hard agree. That's pretty deceptive.

Snamyap

I don't remember it being advertised as a free mount anywhere. Googling "Necrom free mount" or "Berylglow Nix-ox Steed" doesn't give me any reference to this being a free mount. Was it in the livestream?

ESO_player123

Snamyap wrote: »

I don't remember it being advertised as a free mount anywhere.

Neither do I. I only found out about it on the forum. I only saw the mounts that were part of the pre-order packages.

That said I was surprised how many requirements were added for the mount. By the way, you also need Coral Aerie.

Aislinna

FabresFour wrote: »

Honestly I found it pretty predatory to say that the mount is free with the expansion... Since to get it you need leads that drop in dlc dungeons outside of Necrom, and on top of that, you need Greymoor.

That is: You need at least 6,5k crowns in dlcs if you don't have ESO Plus.
(the leads drops in bal sunnar, lost depths and you need greymoor).

Achieving this sort of thing should only, and ONLY be related to expansion and base game, especially if it's a live-advertised point of sale like ZOS did. I found it revolting. Be better, this is extremely disrespectful in my opinion....

Please share where ZOS said "that the mount is free with the expansion". I don't remember seeing this and can't find it. Thank you.

FabresFour

Guys, when they did the live of the expansion, they said that you can get this mount by doing expansion related content, exploring and stuff like that. What I mean by "free", is that it should be part of the purchased content.

However, when to access that part of the content you purchased, you need to buy 2 smaller dlc packs and access another expansion, this becomes extremely wrong, predatory and unfair, especially with new players, that's the point of this topic.

I love this game, I'm currently working for five years for free on a translation project that aims to let more people in my country access it, so that more people can venture into Tamriel. But this is INDEFENSIBLE, honestly.

In my case, it's extremely easy, I have access to all this content, but what about new players? This serves as a pay wall, a barrier to new players that is absurd.

Honestly, I hate to say this, but Zenimax should learn from other MMORPGs. You shouldn't force players to buy other DLC's to get rewards from a DLC that they already have access to, and which is part of the content. This is disappointing.

FabresFour

Aislinna wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

Honestly I found it pretty predatory to say that the mount is free with the expansion... Since to get it you need leads that drop in dlc dungeons outside of Necrom, and on top of that, you need Greymoor.

That is: You need at least 6,5k crowns in dlcs if you don't have ESO Plus.
(the leads drops in bal sunnar, lost depths and you need greymoor).

Achieving this sort of thing should only, and ONLY be related to expansion and base game, especially if it's a live-advertised point of sale like ZOS did. I found it revolting. Be better, this is extremely disrespectful in my opinion....

Please share where ZOS said "that the mount is free with the expansion". I don't remember seeing this and can't find it. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCFj3pNIV4A 55:10

They don't literally say that it's free, but they say that they are achievements related to the purchased zone. However, when those zone-related achievements are dependent on THREE other dlcs, do you think that's the right thing to do? That is not misleading? In my opinion, this is extremely disrespectful.

Snamyap

FabresFour wrote: »

They don't literally say that it's free, but they say that they are achievements related to the purchased zone. However, when those zone-related achievements are dependent on THREE other dlcs, do you think that's the right thing to do? That is not misleading? In my opinion, this is extremely disrespectful.

They say it's related to the Necrom chapter, not to the new zones. But I get your point. But, for me personally, I really enjoy it when quests and tasks take me all over Tamriel. If new chapters could only connect back to 8 year old content that I have done way too many times, it would become pretty stale. Also, for me all the chapters and dlcs feel like one game. If I would start a game that has been out for years I would not expect to have access to all the content without further costs. Anyway, if you are a new player then you probably bought the Online Edition which includes ALL the previous chapters, so the complaint about needing Greymoore would be moot.

FabresFour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCFj3pNIV4A

Snamyap wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

They don't literally say that it's free, but they say that they are achievements related to the purchased zone. However, when those zone-related achievements are dependent on THREE other dlcs, do you think that's the right thing to do? That is not misleading? In my opinion, this is extremely disrespectful.

They say it's related to the Necrom chapter, not to the new zones. But I get your point. But, for me personally, I really enjoy it when quests and tasks take me all over Tamriel. If new chapters could only connect back to 8 year old content that I have done way too many times, it would become pretty stale. Also, for me all the chapters and dlcs feel like one game. If I would start a game that has been out for years I would not expect to have access to all the content without further costs. Anyway, if you are a new player then you probably bought the Online Edition which includes ALL the previous chapters, so the complaint about needing Greymoore would be moot.

I would still have to buy at least 2 dungeon dlc's... I really think this is wrong. I mean, when I look at other mmorpgs, the mounts the player earns are part of the content they purchased and ONLY that content.

I think it's cool that they give content that makes the player go back to past content, but I think they should target it better, the way it is I think it only weakens the content they are already releasing.

I say it again: you shouldn't have to be forced to BUY previous content to get access to new collectibles of things you just bought.

What if, for example, they put those leads on vvardenfell? Players would have to visit past content and it would still be something for free that isn't predatory.

And what bothers me most about all this is that this achievement never existed before. None of the other "Saviors" need Mythic items. And for them to add this requirement just the one time they add a valuable reward for making this achievement... Man, it seems deliberate.

Parrot1986

I’m not sure I totally agree with this take tbh. Making leads drop from non current zone content isn’t new and has been done for new mythics etc. since they came out. Some of those are base game, some are DLC content. It doesn’t make it predatory IMO. From what I’ve seen it’s never been said that the mounts free with the expansion, more a mounts earnable which it is.

I do get the argument that the leads should drop from Necrom content since it’s new, but personally i also like creating reasons to go back and do old content. My issue with one of the leads is it’s locked behind a secret boss at the end of a dungeon and isn’t a high drop chance.

FabresFour

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I’m not sure I totally agree with this take tbh. Making leads drop from non current zone content isn’t new and has been done for new mythics etc. since they came out. Some of those are base game, some are DLC content. It doesn’t make it predatory IMO. From what I’ve seen it’s never been said that the mounts free with the expansion, more a mounts earnable which it is.

I do get the argument that the leads should drop from Necrom content since it’s new, but personally i also like creating reasons to go back and do old content. My issue with one of the leads is it’s locked behind a secret boss at the end of a dungeon and isn’t a high drop chance.

I think one of the things that bothers me the most about it is that they put it in as part of "Savior of Necrom". We have Savior of xxxx in all expansions, and normally those achievements only require the player to make content from within the expansion.

However, the only time they put something truly valuable behind this achievement, the player must purchase/have acess at least two other DLC's to be able to complete the achievement.

It was a type of achievement that we already had in the game and apparently they only changed it out of greed. If it was a new achievement, it would even make sense, but we already have other savior of xxxxx, u know?

I don't know, I saw many novice players getting sad when they realized that they couldn't access this mount without paying for these extra contents. It seems to me a change made solely and exclusively out of greed, you know? Which saddens me a lot, I love this game I didn't want to see more players leave it because of that kind of paywall.

The more paywall, the more harmful, the more beginner players are apprehensive, and from my perspective, rightly so.

FabresFour

And let's face it, it's weird that you are required to have other expansions to be able to do 100% of the achievements in an area. Zone achievements should be.... Only from that specific zone, no?

This opens the door to very harmful practices. I don't know, the contents are starting to become too dependent on each other, I think this limit is very dangerous to be crossed, as a consumer.

Parrot1986

FabresFour wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I’m not sure I totally agree with this take tbh. Making leads drop from non current zone content isn’t new and has been done for new mythics etc. since they came out. Some of those are base game, some are DLC content. It doesn’t make it predatory IMO. From what I’ve seen it’s never been said that the mounts free with the expansion, more a mounts earnable which it is.

I do get the argument that the leads should drop from Necrom content since it’s new, but personally i also like creating reasons to go back and do old content. My issue with one of the leads is it’s locked behind a secret boss at the end of a dungeon and isn’t a high drop chance.

I think one of the things that bothers me the most about it is that they put it in as part of "Savior of Necrom". We have Savior of xxxx in all expansions, and normally those achievements only require the player to make content from within the expansion.

However, the only time they put something truly valuable behind this achievement, the player must purchase/have acess at least two other DLC's to be able to complete the achievement.

It was a type of achievement that we already had in the game and apparently they only changed it out of greed. If it was a new achievement, it would even make sense, but we already have other savior of xxxxx, u know?

I don't know, I saw many novice players getting sad when they realized that they couldn't access this mount without paying for these extra contents. It seems to me a change made solely and exclusively out of greed, you know? Which saddens me a lot, I love this game I didn't want to see more players leave it because of that kind of paywall.

The more paywall, the more harmful, the more beginner players are apprehensive, and from my perspective, rightly so.

I do like the saviour achievements having things like mounts as rewards rather than titles and also like them expanding it to be a bit more meta by needing you do do everything for the new zone like antiquities, fishing etc.but agree it could easily be locked to content you only do in the new zone so I get the frustration.

Only saving grace is eso+ trials are so common hopefully people can get what they need during those.

I’m not 100% sure on the greed side, maybe I’m giving them too much credit but their approach to antiquities and how leads are gathered is pretty consistent since it’s started and more a way to get you to do old content. Music box for example requires you to have Wrothgar, High Isle and Thieves Guild access.

I have issues on how some of the leads are much more time investing than in the past, especially since not been a high drop chance in my experience but that’s a different issue.

Snamyap

I think all the mythics have at least one lead from a dungeon, and chapters don't come with dungeons. And I really appreciate they put in a mount you can earn in game and that you actually have to put in some work and do all the aspects of the chapter to earn it. Also, while theoretically possible, I don't think anyone is going to earn the other mount, the Dark Ram, while only using gear from the two Necrom zones.

FabresFour

I edited the initial topic to clarify what my real problem with the situation is, as it was causing apparent confusion.

NoticeMeArkay

I've unlocked the mount in my second week of playing Necrom. I didn't find the grind too much, I loved how I worked myself towards my goal by both exploring the new zones and playing the quests. Lead drops are a thing of pure RNG, and I can fully understand that those with bad luck see it as an annoyance. BUT I 100% agree with you, and think that locking the leads of one dlc's antiquity behind another dlc's purchase is NOT ok.

It annoyed me during the first wave back when Greymoor released. More so, because I didn't buy the DLC itself right on the day of release but couldn't stop my game from still picking up leads while playing and flaying them around infront of my face. THAT I found to be predatory. Reminded me of mobile games, telling me how much "Extra Loot" I could have gotten, if I'd just buy a few coins or whatever.

When I purchase a DLC or another piece of content, that promises me it's containts but doesn't tell me right before purchase that the necessary steps to achieving such containts are locked behind YET ANOTHER purchase, it feels and tastes like false advertisement.

Aislinna

FabresFour wrote: »

I edited the initial topic to clarify what my real problem with the situation is, as it was causing apparent confusion.

Thank you!

FabresFour

Snamyap wrote: »

I think all the mythics have at least one lead from a dungeon, and chapters don't come with dungeons. And I really appreciate they put in a mount you can earn in game and that you actually have to put in some work and do all the aspects of the chapter to earn it. Also, while theoretically possible, I don't think anyone is going to earn the other mount, the Dark Ram, while only using gear from the two Necrom zones.

Well, the base game gear, morrowind and imperial city still exist, and other players can craft gear for players who don't have access to other dlc's, for example.

My problem is that an expansion related content is blocked by a pay wall. Literally, if you want to have all the achievements of this expansion, you need to have other dlc's. I just realized it now, but o think this started with Galen, with Tales of Tribute. Before that, if you had the content, you could get all the achievements for that content without relying on others contents.

Seriously, do you really think it's right for you to depend on other content to finish something you bought? LOL

I'm all for getting mounts while playing, but without a paywall to do so.

Snamyap

FabresFour wrote: »

Seriously, do you really think it's right for you to depend on other content to finish something you bought? LOL

Actually, I really dislike it when chapters are completely self contained, when mechanics or features introduced in one chapter have no follow up ever. I prefer it when the whole of Tamriel feels like one world and not seperate boxes.
Did you have an issue with the long storyline of Morrowind/Clockwork City/Summerset? There you also needed to buy extra content to get the whole picture.

Sometimes it seems that people think ZOS is a humanitarian organization instead of a for profit business. It's not like the entire Necrom chapter is worthless without that one mount.

Don't get me wrong: I hate predatory practices with a vengeance. I read in the news yesterday that loot boxes are going to be banned in the Netherlands and I jumped for joy. I just don't think this falls under that banner.

AnduinTryggva

I understand your concern.

However the antiquity system was since its introduction related to a dlc like transmutation and jewelry was and maybe still ist.
And I think one does not need to think of some evil move when ZOS attempts to motivate antiquity-focused players anew with each DLC to search for new antiquities.

Snamyap

Maybe they should have put a disclaimer on screen about it requiring older content. But maybe they hadn't yet decided what the exact prerequisites were gonna be.