ZOS please curate monster set coffers for shoulders. The grind is maddening.

CrashTest

The monster shoulders need to be curated. The grind and farm for keys induces ESO burnout.

We shouldn't have to spend 100s of keys and never get the shoulder we're after.

I've spent over 200 keys once and still didn't get the piece I was after.

200 keys = 50 days or nearly two months (assuming one character and base dungeon hms)

That's over three months if you only do normals.

/inb4 just do it on multiple characters

That just makes you burnout faster. There's only so much of the same dungeons you can do repeatedly on the same day. It's no wonder people just speed through them.

EF321

Just spend 150 keys to get last new shoulder, 225 total for all new shoulders.
Bonus: set I wanted isn't even granting buff that it should be granting.

CrashTest

EF321 wrote: »

Just spend 150 keys to get last new shoulder, 225 total for all new shoulders.
Bonus: set I wanted isn't even granting buff that it should be granting.

I hope you don't mean Ozezan because that's the shoulder I'm after. I keep getting Roksa and medium or heavy Ozezan but never light (⁠╯⁠°⁠□⁠°⁠）⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻

Zabagad

EF321 had a 99,6% chance and Crash had > 99,9% chance.
Maybe it's bugged?

EF321

CrashTest wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Just spend 150 keys to get last new shoulder, 225 total for all new shoulders.
Bonus: set I wanted isn't even granting buff that it should be granting.

I hope you don't mean Ozezan because that's the shoulder I'm after. I keep getting Roksa and medium or heavy Ozezan but never light (⁠╯⁠°⁠□⁠°⁠）⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻

It is Ozezan. Ir grants minor vitality, it's grants unique Ozezan buff, but no actual armor.

Kisakee

I spent 20 keys on the 1 key boxes and got nothing. Then i spent 30 more keys on the 5 key boxes and got 5 out of the 6 possible shoulders.

With more and more DLC Monster Sets getting added the list is getting way too long to take benefit of the 1 key boxes any longer if you have everything else and only need the new stuff. Don't waste your keys there.

Bat

I would highly recommend you to save any and all Undaunted keys you get from activities throughout the year (be it Undaunted pledges, event coffers, whichever more sources I can't recall they might have added these keys to in recent time), and only use them on Mystery Coffers during Undaunted Celebration events.

This is how you will get the objectively most out of your keys, and with the added benefit that you won't feel like you're being robbed of your hard work. This is how I went from an almost empty Stickerbook on shoulders during last Undaunted Celebration, to an almost filled Stickerbook in that same event. You will also get a lot of other goodies like the Mercenary style pages (and if you're lucky the whole book afaik), as well as many chances to obtain several of the Monster shoulder style pages, which can make you some good gold on the traders.

Spending keys on 50/50 Coffers* has stopped making sense to me.

*Just inb4 anyone jumps me on that, I know the chances aren't 50/50, I'm obviously referring to the chance of getting any weight of the desired Monster.

Kisakee

Bat wrote: »

I would highly recommend you to save any and all Undaunted keys you get from activities throughout the year (be it Undaunted pledges, event coffers, whichever more sources I can't recall they might have added these keys to in recent time), and only use them on Mystery Coffers during Undaunted Celebration events.

This is how you will get the objectively most out of your keys, and with the added benefit that you won't feel like you're being robbed of your hard work. This is how I went from an almost empty Stickerbook on shoulders during last Undaunted Celebration, to an almost filled Stickerbook in that same event. You will also get a lot of other goodies like the Mercenary style pages (and if you're lucky the whole book afaik), as well as many chances to obtain several of the Monster shoulder style pages, which can make you some good gold on the traders.

Spending keys on 50/50 Coffers* has stopped making sense to me.

*Just inb4 anyone jumps me on that, I know the chances aren't 50/50, I'm obviously referring to the chance of getting any weight of the desired Monster.

That's cool and all but if i want to play a set right now i'm not going to wait months and months. Same goes for (re)occuring and time limited style pages. So yes, that's a good idea for overflow keys but it's not adressing the problem.

Dr_Con

ZOS have described themselves to be against the idea of endless grinding in the past- it's why we have the transmute system so our efforts can be more wisely spent. There should be no reason to not* implement drop curation for shoulders, but it's not the only option they have.

An alternative would be to add a new undaunted assistant who trades some of these coffers to even out the chances that a 1 coffer deal may give, possibly two. Our only frames of reference to decide what is "fair" are Maj and Gliron, however, so halving the amount you can get from one vendor won't even come close to evening the odds... leading to curation being the most sensible option longterm.

the grinding we do should be for something that is nonspecific like transmute crystals, not limited items like keys, specifically for gear such as shoulders.

EF321

Bat wrote: »

I would highly recommend you to save any and all Undaunted keys you get from activities throughout the year (be it Undaunted pledges, event coffers, whichever more sources I can't recall they might have added these keys to in recent time), and only use them on Mystery Coffers during Undaunted Celebration events.

This is how you will get the objectively most out of your keys, and with the added benefit that you won't feel like you're being robbed of your hard work. This is how I went from an almost empty Stickerbook on shoulders during last Undaunted Celebration, to an almost filled Stickerbook in that same event. You will also get a lot of other goodies like the Mercenary style pages (and if you're lucky the whole book afaik), as well as many chances to obtain several of the Monster shoulder style pages, which can make you some good gold on the traders.

Spending keys on 50/50 Coffers* has stopped making sense to me.

*Just inb4 anyone jumps me on that, I know the chances aren't 50/50, I'm obviously referring to the chance of getting any weight of the desired Monster.

This is true in case you just started collecting, not if you already have every shoulder before new release.

Originally, 6 or more dungeon DLCs ago, I collected all the DLC shoulder by rolling something around 300 mystery coffers. With more and more dungeons added and me missing only newest 6, mystery coffers don't look appealing.

Bat

EF321 wrote: »

This is true in case you just started collecting, not if you already have every shoulder before new release.

Originally, 6 or more dungeon DLCs ago, I collected all the DLC shoulder by rolling something around 300 mystery coffers. With more and more dungeons added and me missing only newest 6, mystery coffers don't look appealing.

It's literally true after having collected a few, too, because of all the added benefit to doing it like this. You can make millions of gold from the style pages if you have a few hundred keys, as opposed to just burning them away and not getting anything that you wanted. So it's the better option either way if you don't want to risk feeling like you've put in a whole lot of work for "nothing".

Poss

Reading this as I queue for a pledge lol. I hate doing all 3 pledges on all of my toons every single day until I get lucky.

And unlike some, I actually queue as a dd when I play damage so my wait times are loooong

DMuehlhausen

No, there has to be some level of this to keep people doing content so others can do it as well.

If you could easily just get everything like the shoulders you wouldn't need to run the dungeons for more keys. As more people got geared the pool of people would dry up making it harder for others using the DF tool to get groups.

It's an MMO and there has to be some grind to it.

Bo0137

I second this.

CrashTest

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

No, there has to be some level of this to keep people doing content so others can do it as well.

If you could easily just get everything like the shoulders you wouldn't need to run the dungeons for more keys. As more people got geared the pool of people would dry up making it harder for others using the DF tool to get groups.

It's an MMO and there has to be some grind to it.

First, it's not our job as players to get people to play content. That's literally ZOS' job and we pay them real money to do it.

Second, it isn't fun to grind the same content you dislike for months to get a single piece of gear so that you can go play what you actually enjoy. This is a reason players get burnt out and leave ESO.

I don't blame those who just speed through random dungeon dailies and pledges. They're probably on their 10th alt and just want to get the tedious grind over with already.

Third, I'm not asking to easily get everything. If I wanted easy everything, I wouldn't be a sweaty vet raider. Curation already exists. I'm asking for that to extend to the pledge key coffers as well, so I can play what I actually enjoy in the game.

Fourth, a bit of grind is fine, but not excessively bad RNG that makes you farm for months and still not get the one piece of gear you're after. ZOS knows this and that's why they gave us curation for almost everything.

gariondavey

Agreed

spartaxoxo

Only they if put something equally as good and grindy into the game that you have to use keys to get.

Keys are a primary driver of dungeons and keep the activity finder's queue healthier.

Something like buff food of the gods.

Cancels out one death in a trial and gives you all the stats. 500 keys for 1 piece.

Well, obviously not that because that's an intentionally hyperbolic example. I just mean it would need to be something very valuable so people will want to keep getting as many keys as possible.

f047ys3v3n

Watched a buddy drop 200+ keys the other day. Never got what he was looking for. Pretty crazy. Seems totally reasonable.

Sarannah

Personally I've given up on getting shoulders and farming keys. Right now, I just check the golden vendor every week and buy the ones I do not have in my stickerbook yet.

Maybe an incentive to get people from messing up normal dungeons, and get a higher chance for their shoulders at the same time. Would be to let veteran dungeons drop both a random head and random shoulder piece from that specific dungeon, instead of only the head piece. This would get players to flow into veteran dungeons, and would allow seasoned players to specifically farm certain shoulder pieces. This would even make most players farm the head/shoulder pieces in veteran dungeons, instead of farming transmutes/keys in normal dungeons. (Note: These shoulder drops on veteran should not be curated, as the droppool is only three)

While at the same time maybe change the shoulder randomness from the keymerchants to granting specific shoulders with specific weight, for a 50 key price. So even with terrible luck, players would be able to eventually buy the shoulders they need.

Ragnarok0130

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

No, there has to be some level of this to keep people doing content so others can do it as well.

If you could easily just get everything like the shoulders you wouldn't need to run the dungeons for more keys. As more people got geared the pool of people would dry up making it harder for others using the DF tool to get groups.

It's an MMO and there has to be some grind to it.

People tend to run dungeons for transmutes rather than keys in my circles. Why else would they keep running after getting A complete stickerbook? Keys are handy even after completing your monster sets since motifs are sold with keys too so there are multiple reasons why curating monster shoulers wouldn’t affect the number of people running dungeons.

I’m curious are you against the golden vendor selling monster sets since it bypasses grind too?

Destai

Fully support monster shoulders being curated too. It just makes sense.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Only they if put something equally as good and grindy into the game that you have to use keys to get.

Keys are a primary driver of dungeons and keep the activity finder's queue healthier.

Something like buff food of the gods.

Cancels out one death in a trial and gives you all the stats. 500 keys for 1 piece.

Well, obviously not that because that's an intentionally hyperbolic example. I just mean it would need to be something very valuable so people will want to keep getting as many keys as possible.

There's other ways they could incentivize dungeons - like cosmetics. All of that fancy stuff we see coming from crates and/or in timed deals, could (and IMO - should) be coming from dungeons or other content too. But I agree, there should be both easier ways to get keys and more ways to spend them. Curated drops would vastly improve a system that doesn't respect player's time as much as some would like.

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I've given up on getting shoulders and farming keys. Right now, I just check the golden vendor every week and buy the ones I do not have in my stickerbook yet.

Maybe an incentive to get people from messing up normal dungeons, and get a higher chance for their shoulders at the same time. Would be to let veteran dungeons drop both a random head and random shoulder piece from that specific dungeon, instead of only the head piece. This would get players to flow into veteran dungeons, and would allow seasoned players to specifically farm certain shoulder pieces. This would even make most players farm the head/shoulder pieces in veteran dungeons, instead of farming transmutes/keys in normal dungeons. (Note: These shoulder drops on veteran should not be curated, as the droppool is only three)

While at the same time maybe change the shoulder randomness from the keymerchants to granting specific shoulders with specific weight, for a 50 key price. So even with terrible luck, players would be able to eventually buy the shoulders they need.

I've definitely given up on them too. I have most of the BIS ones anyways, aside from tanking pieces, so I'm good until they come around to the Golden Vendor. That's an not ideal solution though, as it takes away the immediacy and joy of creating a build in a shorter timeframe. I can totally see where it doesn't work for others. For as much as this game's strength is the experimental builds, I just don't feel like the reward structure fully supports it.

Bat wrote: »

I would highly recommend you to save any and all Undaunted keys you get from activities throughout the year (be it Undaunted pledges, event coffers, whichever more sources I can't recall they might have added these keys to in recent time), and only use them on Mystery Coffers during Undaunted Celebration events.

This is how you will get the objectively most out of your keys, and with the added benefit that you won't feel like you're being robbed of your hard work. This is how I went from an almost empty Stickerbook on shoulders during last Undaunted Celebration, to an almost filled Stickerbook in that same event. You will also get a lot of other goodies like the Mercenary style pages (and if you're lucky the whole book afaik), as well as many chances to obtain several of the Monster shoulder style pages, which can make you some good gold on the traders.

Spending keys on 50/50 Coffers* has stopped making sense to me.

*Just inb4 anyone jumps me on that, I know the chances aren't 50/50, I'm obviously referring to the chance of getting any weight of the desired Monster.

This is a fair point, but again, it ruins the fun of build making IMO. Waiting months to get something isn't fun, at least I don't think so. I'll definitely do what you're suggesting because it works for my playstyle, but it feels like the events are bandaid on a more structural pain point.

Necrotech_Master

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Only they if put something equally as good and grindy into the game that you have to use keys to get.

Keys are a primary driver of dungeons and keep the activity finder's queue healthier.

Something like buff food of the gods.

Cancels out one death in a trial and gives you all the stats. 500 keys for 1 piece.

Well, obviously not that because that's an intentionally hyperbolic example. I just mean it would need to be something very valuable so people will want to keep getting as many keys as possible.

transmutes are the driver for running dungeons lol, there is already so little you need the keys for, especially if you have already collected all or the vast majority of monster sets because of the low cost to recreate

ill agree with the OP that i hate spending keys on the coffers and not getting the drop, and at this point i have the vast majority of them unlocked so it makes no sense for me to even buy the 1 key coffers from any of the vendors

when a new dungeon comes out, i buy 5 boxes to start for specifically those dungeons, to try to get a minimum of 1 monster shoulder from each new set

it was far more annoying spending tel var on the IC monster set boxes honestly lol

i end up just straight up waiting for monster set i need to show up on the gold vendor to finish collections, but with only 2 options per week on the gold vendor, it feels like i never see the ones i actually need (even older base game ones like ilambris as im still missing 2 sizes of shoulders for those and im not wasting keys on that)

Pelanora

Why shouldn't the first principle of this game be- 'what's the most fun'.

In that case, there'd be no random chests, you'd just earn keys and buy what you wanted. And then go have fun with it. Go have fun in the content you want, not the grind you have to.

I don't understand why the game design is so dedicated to finding ways to say no, to players. Instead of 'yes, you can do that'.

ApoAlaia

Golden vendor needs to get her supplies sorted too.

Funny that some of the most popular monster sets (like Zaan or Kjalnar) she can't secure stock where other newer sets she has no issue acquiring.

Hotdog_23

Let shoulders drop from normal dungeons like they used to, and helms continue to drop from vet like they always have. Use the keys for something else. Or they could still use the keys for random dungeon gear including monster sets, but all with varying cost. Say 10 keys for gear, 25 keys for weapons and 50 for shoulders and 100 for helms.

Stay safe

Northwold

To be honest, once you've done the vet dungeon and got a head piece, I think you should be able to spend keys on the shoulder or helm you want *specifically* at the undaunted camp, with no question of random rewards at all.

The reward for doing pledges needs to be changed to / supplemented with something else, eg significantly more transmute crystals that are more in line with what you get in cyro, that genuinely encourages people to keep doing them.

I don't see the point in grinding the same dungeons over and over again to get one specific item of (head) gear. It's not rewarding but frustrating. Also, it means that you end up with fewer players wanting to run those dungeons that don't have monster sets anyone wants. Grinding dungeons as pledges to get keys for randomly generated shoulders is equally frustrating -- you're not getting rewarded for it, you're just seeing your efforts burnt away by random number generation fails.

Naftal

I'm not a fan of making pledges even more useless than they are at the moment for people who have played the game for a while.

KlauthWarthog

There should be a more expensive box with curated shoulder drop.
Allow the keys to also be traded for reagents, tempers or consumables of the sort, and people will keep running pledges way past the completion of their sticker books.

Dragonnord

If ZOS does that and get all the shoulders, why would I ever put a foot in another pledge ever again in this life?
 

jaws343

I wouldn't hate it if coffers in general were all curated.

I've got exactly 1 shoulder piece left to drop for dungeon monster sets, and it is painful repeatedly spending 5 keys on the coffer and getting 1 of the other 5 pieces every time. Even more painful knowing in a week I will have 6 more to buy.

But also, I've spent at least 500K tel var on Phoenix coffers for 1 greatsword to drop to finish the stickerbook for that set, and still nothing. 1 other piece of tel var gear left, so, I expect I will be farming 1M+ tel var just to get 2 gear pieces to drop. And then I still have to farm tel var for the monster shoulder pieces there.

Curation of coffers would go a long way. I'd even go as far as saying, just curate it all. Especially dungeon chests, the weapon grind is ridiculous for the stickerbook there.

Necrotech_Master

Northwold wrote: »

To be honest, once you've done the vet dungeon and got a head piece, I think you should be able to spend keys on the shoulder or helm you want *specifically* at the undaunted camp, with no question of random rewards at all.

The reward for doing pledges needs to be changed to / supplemented with something else, eg significantly more transmute crystals that are more in line with what you get in cyro, that genuinely encourages people to keep doing them.

I don't see the point in grinding the same dungeons over and over again to get one specific item of (head) gear. It's not rewarding but frustrating. Also, it means that you end up with fewer players wanting to run those dungeons that don't have monster sets anyone wants. Grinding dungeons as pledges to get keys for randomly generated shoulders is equally frustrating -- you're not getting rewarded for it, you're just seeing your efforts burnt away by random number generation fails.

at least the monster head grind is max of 3 runs to add all of them to the collection book nowadays lol

jaws343 wrote: »

I wouldn't hate it if coffers in general were all curated.

I've got exactly 1 shoulder piece left to drop for dungeon monster sets, and it is painful repeatedly spending 5 keys on the coffer and getting 1 of the other 5 pieces every time. Even more painful knowing in a week I will have 6 more to buy.

But also, I've spent at least 500K tel var on Phoenix coffers for 1 greatsword to drop to finish the stickerbook for that set, and still nothing. 1 other piece of tel var gear left, so, I expect I will be farming 1M+ tel var just to get 2 gear pieces to drop. And then I still have to farm tel var for the monster shoulder pieces there.

Curation of coffers would go a long way. I'd even go as far as saying, just curate it all. Especially dungeon chests, the weapon grind is ridiculous for the stickerbook there.

i wish the IC gear actually would just drop from bosses in IC, it would certainly provide more incentive to kill them instead of wasting 10s of thousands or more of tel var on the random coffers