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A request for ZOS on behalf of Arcanists, Arch-Mages, Antiquarians & others
Danikat
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When Necrom launches we're going to have the ability to play Arcanists, a class who are, in ZOS own words "Masters of the secrets and forbidden knowledge of Apocrypha". We already can play a character who becomes the Arch-Mage of the Mages Guild by taking on Sheogorath to retrieve lost knowledge, a Psijic Sage and a Master Antiquarian dedicated to retrieving lost artefacts of all types. They could be all those things together. We're all going to be trying to find out more about Apocrypha and the secrets hidden there.
On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
It doesn't have to be a bad thing, I think some of these characters would actually be happier to know they're working with a fellow scholar who can understand what they're trying to achieve and will know how to handle an ancient and likely fragile tome, in addition to being more than capable of dealing with anyone who might try to stop them leaving with it.
I know it's a small thing but it bothers me every time that my characters just have to put up with this, if there is any option to comment it's along the lines of "Why would an old book be important?" which reinforces the idea that your character does not care about such things. Ideally I'd love it if the dialogue options changed based on the character, including things like whether they've completed the Mages Guild quests, but even if the "more information" lines could be changed to something which acknowledges that our characters understand and care about these things it would be an improvement.
On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
It doesn't have to be a bad thing, I think some of these characters would actually be happier to know they're working with a fellow scholar who can understand what they're trying to achieve and will know how to handle an ancient and likely fragile tome, in addition to being more than capable of dealing with anyone who might try to stop them leaving with it.
I know it's a small thing but it bothers me every time that my characters just have to put up with this, if there is any option to comment it's along the lines of "Why would an old book be important?" which reinforces the idea that your character does not care about such things. Ideally I'd love it if the dialogue options changed based on the character, including things like whether they've completed the Mages Guild quests, but even if the "more information" lines could be changed to something which acknowledges that our characters understand and care about these things it would be an improvement.
PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
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washbern✭✭✭✭Yeah, would be nice if the game recognized our class and achievements sometimes and gave more relevant dialog options.9 -
amig186✭✭✭✭✭Great idea and definitely doable since NPCs in some quests can already recognise you as a member of the thieves guild or DB. It could even be added at no additonal cost if only the player's dialogue option is changed while the NPC's response remains the same. A small thing that would add much to the roleplaying aspect.PC EU2 -
Anumaril✭✭✭✭✭Better still: give us more than 1 dialogue option so we can choose how we want to respond to those comments when we come across them.
"I have a task for you, but it's just retrieving a book from some bandits, which I'm sure would bore you."
> "Don't you worry! I'm here to help."
> "Eh, I've some time on my hands. I guess I can help."
> "Actually, we're rather alike you and I. Knowledge to me is worth more than riches."
> "Unless there's something worthwhile in it for me, get lost."Edited by Anumaril on February 27, 2023 1:07PM18 -
Snamyap✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
And please, for the love of Hermaeus Mora, stop treating the vestiges like we have the attention span of a todler. No more explaining stuff that was literally discussed two dialogue options earlier.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
And please, for the love of Hermaeus Mora, stop treating the vestiges like we have the attention span of a todler. No more explaining stuff that was literally discussed two dialogue options earlier.
You made me laugh.
.................
Hermaeus Mora looks at the stack of books to his right. He gazes upon the tower of books to his left, twisting up into the sky and down into the dark depths. He watches the waves of a vast ocean of memory crash against distant shores. "You are all as toddlers to me."
The Vestige scowls. "Then why you'd give me your book?"
"Because it was all you could handle, toddler."
"See cliff? Portal."
"See enemy? Tentacle."
"Have a boo-boo? Heal."
"Now that's just insulting."
One tentacle writhes free from the gelatinous mass of eyeballs, reaching towards the Vestige like a grasping hand. "If you prefer, I can inject the knowledge of what you need to do at a rate appropriate to my attention span."
The Vestige edges backwards, holding the book between them and the tentacle, nervously checking the distance between them and the edge and the ocean below. "Er, no, no thanks."
"That's what I thought."12 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Better still: give us more than 1 dialogue option so we can choose how we want to respond to those comments when we come across them.
"I have a task for you, but it's just retrieving a book from some bandits, which I'm sure would bore you."
> "Don't you worry! I'm here to help."
> "Eh, I've some time on my hands. I guess I can help."
> "Actually, we're rather alike you and I. Knowledge to me is worth more than riches."
> "Unless there's something worthwhile in it for me, get lost."
This would be so awesome, even if most of the time it made no difference in the NPC’s responses!6 -
Anumaril✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Better still: give us more than 1 dialogue option so we can choose how we want to respond to those comments when we come across them.
"I have a task for you, but it's just retrieving a book from some bandits, which I'm sure would bore you."
> "Don't you worry! I'm here to help."
> "Eh, I've some time on my hands. I guess I can help."
> "Actually, we're rather alike you and I. Knowledge to me is worth more than riches."
> "Unless there's something worthwhile in it for me, get lost."
This would be so awesome, even if most of the time it made no difference in the NPC’s responses!
Exactly. It shouldn't fundamentally change the direction of a quest (only red-text options should do that), but it should slightly change the reaction of the NPC to the player. That's all we're asking for. When the voice actor records a line reacting to the player's dialogue, just record a couple sentences extra so that there can be more player options.6 -
Tenthirty2✭✭✭✭✭
✭On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
And please, for the love of Hermaeus Mora, stop treating the vestiges like we have the attention span of a todler. No more explaining stuff that was literally discussed two dialogue options earlier.
THIS, more than anything else, ^^^ THIS ^^^
Some conversations you can just talk to the quest-giver and then exit dialogue and be just fine.
What makes me teeth-grind is, more often in zone stories\quests, you HAVE to pick the dumbest reply statement in order to advance the quest.
Tharn "Once we identify the third location I can triangulate the precise location of where the dragons will strike, we can prevent untold devastation."
(This is a point where you SHOULD be able to just exit the convo but you have to say:)
Vestooge "Will that be bad?"
Tharn "Y...yes that will be bad. It's the entire point of our search, our mission?"
Vestooge "Look at this sword I found in that last dungeon, the pointy end is still sharp! See? ouch!"
Tharn "..."
This out of a main character who is nothing short of a demigod.
Edit: Original post was unfair to toddlers. Tiny people are not stupid, they just haven't learned yet.
The Vestige should have learned, but have not based on their oft stupid responses.
Edited by Tenthirty2 on February 27, 2023 11:31PM- "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs - horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
- "When my time comes, I will smile. And that will be all." -Sir Nathain Galien
- IGN: TenThirty2 (PC/PS: NA, PC/PS: EU)
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Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
And please, for the love of Hermaeus Mora, stop treating the vestiges like we have the attention span of a todler. No more explaining stuff that was literally discussed two dialogue options earlier.
I'm pretty sure they only do this because of players returning after a while of inactivity or other questing. It would be better to put this information in the quest log IMO, but I think this is the reason for your specific complaint.0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well it's good to know I'm not alone in this.
Better still: give us more than 1 dialogue option so we can choose how we want to respond to those comments when we come across them.
"I have a task for you, but it's just retrieving a book from some bandits, which I'm sure would bore you."
> "Don't you worry! I'm here to help."
> "Eh, I've some time on my hands. I guess I can help."
> "Actually, we're rather alike you and I. Knowledge to me is worth more than riches."
> "Unless there's something worthwhile in it for me, get lost."
That would be perfect. Even if it doesn't change the NPCs response (although I guess the last one would be refusing the quest) it would be nice to be able to choose the responses most fitting for the character.On that basis can we please, please do away with the condescending quest givers 'warning' us not to be disappointed that they're asking us to retrieve a book or a scroll instead of some gold statue or magic weapon and tediously explaining that, believe it or not, knowledge can be important and valuable too. Alternatively (and this might actually be the better option) can we have the option to call them out on their condescending stereotyping?
And please, for the love of Hermaeus Mora, stop treating the vestiges like we have the attention span of a todler. No more explaining stuff that was literally discussed two dialogue options earlier.
I'm pretty sure they only do this because of players returning after a while of inactivity or other questing. It would be better to put this information in the quest log IMO, but I think this is the reason for your specific complaint.
That's often me and I agree it should be in the quest log because those recaps are not actually useful in that situation. Firstly I want the recap at the point where I stopped the quest, not when it's convenient to put it into dialogue and secondly in that situation those recaps are often too brief and vague to be much help.
When I go back to a quest I haven't played for a while I'll re-read the quest log and if I feel like that's not enough I'll look it up on UESP to remind myself of the previous steps or preceding quests.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"2 -
maximusrex45✭✭✭✭ESO dialog not treating us like we are morons with dementia? That will be the day..3
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vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, it would be nice if the Vestige was more like the Witcher.PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 3900 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of the time the Vestige gets the 'strong, but kind of a meathead' typecasting in dialogues, especially when the NPC explains something, and the Vestige replies with a redundant 'Right, because you [thing that was just explained]'. I get that they do it to refresh the memory of the people who might take breaks during the quest and forget what's going on, but sometimes the Vestige sounds nothing like the supposed Hero of Everything
. Having said that, I do like moments when the Vestige is a bit sassy and obnoxious for comedic effect, it's very endearing. 0 -
Djennku✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of the time the Vestige gets the 'strong, but kind of a meathead' typecasting in dialogues, especially when the NPC explains something, and the Vestige replies with a redundant 'Right, because you [thing that was just explained]'. I get that they do it to refresh the memory of the people who might take breaks during the quest and forget what's going on, but sometimes the Vestige sounds nothing like the supposed Hero of Everything. Having said that, I do like moments when the Vestige is a bit sassy and obnoxious for comedic effect, it's very endearing.
My favorite optional dialogue is for returning the mining samples in Blackreach. As an argonian, you can correct the NPC with "It's Argonian, you dryskin." When he refers to the deceased as a lizard.@Djennku, PCNA.
Grand Master crafter, all styles and all furnishing plans known pre U41.
Vamp and WW bites available for players.
Shoot me an in-game mail if you need anything, happy to help!4 -
Mofasa✭✭✭I would love to have a diverse dialogue too but the problem is that all dialogue in this game is done by voice actors.
This limits the possibilities for dialogues and hinders the flexibility in quests.
The solution would be computer generated voice dialogue but I honestly have no idea on how good that would sound.
I don't think anyone wants a game when the NPC is talking like Cyber-men or Daleks
All they have to do then is simply add more text to the mission and the computer voice will do the rest, "infinite possibilities and flexibility"
Anyone knows how good computer voices are today?
Could they replace voice actors?
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Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would love to have a diverse dialogue too but the problem is that all dialogue in this game is done by voice actors.
This limits the possibilities for dialogues and hinders the flexibility in quests.
The solution would be computer generated voice dialogue but I honestly have no idea on how good that would sound.
I don't think anyone wants a game when the NPC is talking like Cyber-men or Daleks
All they have to do then is simply add more text to the mission and the computer voice will do the rest, "infinite possibilities and flexibility"
Anyone knows how good computer voices are today?
Could they replace voice actors?
The common suggestion in this thread has been to give the player multiple choices for how to respond which don't change the NPCs lines. Since the play character's aren't voiced that wouldn't be a problem.
I've seen that done in other games too, you get 2-3 options which all basically amount to accepting the quest, but with different wording so the player can choose the one which best suits how they see their character, and because they all ultimately mean "yes I'll do it" the NPCs response can fit with any of them.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"4 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be honest, sometimes it's rather hard to remember or keep attention on what one is supposed to do after doing few hours of fetch some gadget from whatever hostile camp, talk to Whoeveritwas, fetch whatever from another side of map, talk Someone Else, farm exotic body parts from some mob which are important for dunno reason, talk to first Whoever guy -style tasks to save day for Whatwhasthename the stupidly stubborn and incompetent but supposedly good guy who "surprisingly" will be at end revealed to the the bad guy all along.
I do agree that repetition should be avoided but dialogue should have a skippable "Please remind me what I'm supposed to do and why?" option when that matters.0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To be honest, sometimes it's rather hard to remember or keep attention on what one is supposed to do after doing few hours of fetch some gadget from whatever hostile camp, talk to Whoeveritwas, fetch whatever from another side of map, talk Someone Else, farm exotic body parts from some mob which are important for dunno reason, talk to first Whoever guy -style tasks to save day for Whatwhasthename the stupidly stubborn and incompetent but supposedly good guy who "surprisingly" will be at end revealed to the the bad guy all along.
I do agree that repetition should be avoided but dialogue should have a skippable "Please remind me what I'm supposed to do and why?" option when that matters.
Why not put that in the quest journal? Then it's there whenever you want to look at it (instead of having to wait until ZOS decides you need a recap) and you never have to see it if you don't want to.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"3 -
vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
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My guess is ZOS would avoid that one for performance reasons. After years of doing quests, our quest journals would get very big.To be honest, sometimes it's rather hard to remember or keep attention on what one is supposed to do after doing few hours of fetch some gadget from whatever hostile camp, talk to Whoeveritwas, fetch whatever from another side of map, talk Someone Else, farm exotic body parts from some mob which are important for dunno reason, talk to first Whoever guy -style tasks to save day for Whatwhasthename the stupidly stubborn and incompetent but supposedly good guy who "surprisingly" will be at end revealed to the the bad guy all along.
I do agree that repetition should be avoided but dialogue should have a skippable "Please remind me what I'm supposed to do and why?" option when that matters.
Why not put that in the quest journal? Then it's there whenever you want to look at it (instead of having to wait until ZOS decides you need a recap) and you never have to see it if you don't want to.PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 3900 -
Clyde_BlueSnake✭✭✭We already can play a character who becomes the Arch-Mage of the Mages Guild by taking on Sheogorath to retrieve lost knowledge,
Eh, sorry to cherry pick, but despite the "Arch-Mage" achievement I recall the Vestige didn't actually became Arch-Mage after the Mage's Guild questline, your character is still refer as an a Adept by few NPCs. Like Vanus Galerion (who is the founder of the Mages Guild, so wouldn't he be the current Arch-Mage? Anyways.), during "Messages Across Tamriel" he refers the character an a Adept.Edited by Clyde_BlueSnake on March 3, 2023 12:23AMMain is Blue-Thuxis, a Argonian stamSorc, whose also is a werewolf! 2nd main, Cobalt-Thuxis, a Argonian stamArc, an identical twin sister to Blue-Thuxis, even is a werewolf as well! some alts:Nirn-Scale Rajthux (Argonian, Templar), Ros-Ei Nature-Thuxis (Argonian, Warden), Crimson-Thuxis (Argonian, DK), Bone-Thuxis Tharn (Argonian, Necro) Why Bone-Thuxis has Tharn as a last name:Some ESO history: I originally started from PS4 NA during June 10, 2015, I did reached CP 810+ on there. I eventually kinda got tired of paying PS+, so during February 4, 2019 I started moving to PC NA. Also CP: 810+. Nowadays I play ESO PC mostly, while PS4 is dust.The siblings were separated at a young age due to a Dres slaver raid, Blue, Cobalt, Ros-Ei & their mother were able to escape, Crimson & Bone weren't that lucky. Crimson was later "rescued" by some Orcs that later ambushed the House Dres Dunmers, unfortunately one Dunmer remained & sadly successfully brought the young Bone-Thuxis to the Dres plantation. Later an Imperial, a Tharn, bought Bone at a auction & later told he was free, the young Argonian sadly had no idea where to go & doesn't know if his family was still alive, so the Tharn adopted him into House Tharn. This family of Argonians finally reunited years later., Kenneth Clyde (Nord, Sorc), Selene Gray-Thuxis (Argonian, Nightblade), Urmanda (Orc, Warden)2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like the option to tell an NPC to rethink their attitude. I've thwarted the plans of deities and actually banished a demigod or two. I gotta take grief from a mage that can't pick his own mushrooms?
Not all my characters want to remain humble.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like the option to tell an NPC to rethink their attitude. I've thwarted the plans of deities and actually banished a demigod or two. I gotta take grief from a mage that can't pick his own mushrooms?
Not all my characters want to remain humble.
Absolutely agree!______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭we've never become an arch-mage in elder scrolls online. we're an adept, that's how we're addressed by mages guild npcs, yes after the questline.
though more dialogue options would be amazingmiaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.0 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭Yeah, would be nice if the game recognized our class and achievements sometimes and gave more relevant dialog options.
You do sometimes but it's very rare. (I do believe there's a few times in the DLC stories where you can say "I defeated Molag Bal, I can take on this other Daedric Prince" for example). Would be nice to have more dialogue options in general...
Note: This is discounting re-occurring characters. Obviously characters from previous zones will remember you, especially Daedric Princes.1