8.1.3 DPS remains the same after LA adjust cause.....

BrentBlemish

Because you took the LA damage increase out of empower...

After all my testing ive done during the first few weeks of PTS, I made adjustments to make sure i I have empower in my rotation to make up for the lack of LA damage... But now that LA were buffed back up slighty, you removed the damage increase from empower and the results are... exactly the same... I feel like this is a strong case of bait and switch. Gives us one thing but take away another to achieve the same previous results.

The only ppl this will effect are those who didnt put empower in their rotation while testing. But in Trials, Vet dungeons, you are given empower through your support so the end result is the same. I just... I dont really have anything constructive to add at this point. I feel what the most of us feel at this point... which is just defeated.

CameraBeardThePirate

They also removed Empower from PvP, along with the usability of any skill that grants Empower in PvP. Boggles my mind why they take this sledgehammer approach time and time again and then wonder why so many people feel as if their feedback isn't valued.

BrentBlemish

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

They also removed Empower from PvP, along with the usability of any skill that grants Empower in PvP. Boggles my mind why they take this sledgehammer approach time and time again and then wonder why so many people feel as if their feedback isn't valued.

like someone else said... they could have just added "damage to monsters" and empower would no longer have a brutal impact in PvP.

But also someone who PvPs frequently... ive never looked at my death recap and gone "I DIED FROM 5K LIGHT ATTACK DAMAGE?" It has just never happened to me. So idk...

Nord_Raseri

I suppose Wrecking blow is unchanged? There goes my spammable(In adjunct with LAs). Right along with Bound armaments' LA boost. Even in their back-peddling not much has changed for both my main(2hander stamsorc) and secondary dps(magplar) from pts1 to now.

Tannus15

Yes, this is very smart and I like it a lot.

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

This is how you "lower the ceiling". You know what else i'd like to see? Powerful Assault changed to give major courage. Yeah, that's right, I said it, take away a bunch of damage from high end groups with great buff uptimes. Stop nerfing characters and nerf these buffs!

merpins

I like that it gives a significant boost to heavy attack builds. I don't like that it doesn't boost Light Attacks at all. I don't think it would matter much if they left the 80% heavy attack increase and added back the 40% light attack increase as well. 80% HA increase won't effect you much if you're not a heavy attack build after all. what I mean is, they should add the 40% la increase without nerfing the ha increase, since the two are so different, it won't matter if they keep the ha bonus.

Marto

A buff that serves HA builds is more interesting than a buff that helps everything, of nearly all playstyles, all at once.

Tannus15

merpins wrote: »

I like that it gives a significant boost to heavy attack builds. I don't like that it doesn't boost Light Attacks at all. I don't think it would matter much if they left the 80% heavy attack increase and added back the 40% light attack increase as well. 80% HA increase won't effect you much if you're not a heavy attack build after all. what I mean is, they should add the 40% la increase without nerfing the ha increase, since the two are so different, it won't matter if they keep the ha bonus.

read what the OP has said from a different perspective.

they have ADDED the empower bonus to all light attacks. this version of PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower

then they have changed empower to do something unique for niche builds. it's really clever and i'm really happy about it.

Everest_Lionheart

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yes, this is very smart and I like it a lot.

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

This is how you "lower the ceiling". You know what else i'd like to see? Powerful Assault changed to give major courage. Yeah, that's right, I said it, take away a bunch of damage from high end groups with great buff uptimes. Stop nerfing characters and nerf these buffs!

That would make PA even more powerful and give healers access to even more buff sets.

Marto

Tannus15 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

I like that it gives a significant boost to heavy attack builds. I don't like that it doesn't boost Light Attacks at all. I don't think it would matter much if they left the 80% heavy attack increase and added back the 40% light attack increase as well. 80% HA increase won't effect you much if you're not a heavy attack build after all. what I mean is, they should add the 40% la increase without nerfing the ha increase, since the two are so different, it won't matter if they keep the ha bonus.

read what the OP has said from a different perspective.

they have ADDED the empower bonus to all light attacks. this version of PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower

then they have changed empower to do something unique for niche builds. it's really clever and i'm really happy about it.

Ok, that's actually pretty clever.

Plus, a change like this naturally raises the floor, without increasing the ceiling. Which was the intended result of the LA changes in the first place.

boi_anachronism_

Ambush lol. Imagine, a nightblade running empower now, let me come out of the shadows in a dungeon to...stand there and heavy attack 😂. Why would you bother. Welp I'm dumping my stamblade re-spec that I just did 🥴

JustAGoodPlayer

To start with - if HA is +80% DPS now and it is not a problem, why moltan armaments + empower was so much a big problem for you before changes ? )))

HA builds already on live with both this buffs do less damage than not HA builds with same HA rotation, so - do not worry. We do not get some thing good too

We are all in the same ... .

BrentBlemish

Marto wrote: »

A buff that serves HA builds is more interesting than a buff that helps everything, of nearly all playstyles, all at once.

So then we should just rework major/minor brutality, sorcery, courage, force, ect then too? since they are buffs that help nearly all playstyles?

What you're not taking into account is all the things through out the years that ZOS has implented with LAs and Empower... WWs are literally dead right now. the DoT nerfs hurt them (twice. from a few years back and now this patch since all their DoTs are "sticky") and now their main damage source of LAs NERFED and their howl synergy for emporer now USELESS. Look... all the WWs are dead. ZOS trimmed their claws and shaved all their fur off. Naked, clawless, dead werewolves. in the ground.

Now you have trial sets for empower... useless... Wrecking blow on 2 hander... VERY useless... Class base empowers from templars and necros... useless... DKs... useless... like... This empower buff REALLY only serves one class... Sorc 1 bar heavy attack. But lets not forget they nerfed Maelstrom staff to no longer buff LA/HA damage.

I dont know whats going on anymore. ZOS has fallen into this "throw anything at the wall and see what sticks" mentality.

Tannus15

I think it's clear to everyone that they have made the empower change but haven't had time to look at the skills and sets most impacted by this.

If ambush, galenwe, solar barrage etc all go live like this then i think that's pretty bad, but overall i think this is a very good change of direction from ZoS.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Yes, this is very smart and I like it a lot.

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

This is how you "lower the ceiling". You know what else i'd like to see? Powerful Assault changed to give major courage. Yeah, that's right, I said it, take away a bunch of damage from high end groups with great buff uptimes. Stop nerfing characters and nerf these buffs!

That would make PA even more powerful and give healers access to even more buff sets.

PA is currently a unique buff for 307 weapon and spell damage. it's one of the most powerful non major/minor group buffs in the game. this change would make it pretty much a dead set for end game trials.

@BrentBlemish the maelstrom staff is also doing what they indicated as their intent. on live the better your weave the better maelstrom staff performs. on pts it's better cleave and will just do increased tick damage. i think this is also a good change even though it will lower my single target dps, it will improve my cleave.

BrentBlemish

Tannus15 wrote: »

@BrentBlemish the maelstrom staff is also doing what they indicated as their intent. on live the better your weave the better maelstrom staff performs. on pts it's better cleave and will just do increased tick damage. i think this is also a good change even though it will lower my single target dps, it will improve my cleave.

I dont take any real issue to maelstrom staff change, more or less pointing out the fact that it was mandatory for 1 bar HA sorc builds... so with that gone, HA damage still down... this empower buff is really only made to help adjust that 1 build... But with so much loss in other areas of HA boosts... It just doesnt seem like enough to warrent such a massive change. While also leaving everyone else in the exact same position in terms of damage from the start of week 1 of PTS.

chessalavakia_ESO

Tannus15 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

I like that it gives a significant boost to heavy attack builds. I don't like that it doesn't boost Light Attacks at all. I don't think it would matter much if they left the 80% heavy attack increase and added back the 40% light attack increase as well. 80% HA increase won't effect you much if you're not a heavy attack build after all. what I mean is, they should add the 40% la increase without nerfing the ha increase, since the two are so different, it won't matter if they keep the ha bonus.

read what the OP has said from a different perspective.

they have ADDED the empower bonus to all light attacks. this version of PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower

then they have changed empower to do something unique for niche builds. it's really clever and i'm really happy about it.

This version of the PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower provided your stats are high enough for the scaling to increase your damage by as much as empower was providing.


For an extreme counter example, my pts punch tank went from doing around 4k damage on a light attack to around 1k damage.

I haven't played on the PTS enough yet to comment that much on the changes but, this definitely isn't a case of the developers making it so everyone's light attacks = light attack + empower of last week.

Marto

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

This version of the PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower provided your stats are high enough for the scaling to increase your damage by as much as empower was providing.

And that means that, while 8.1.3 led to no damage increase or decrease for OP, players with less optimal gear, skills and ability will likely see a substantial DPS increase. At least if they are using a non-tank build.

Jaimeh

Tannus15 wrote: »

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

Having a buff that's pretty ubiquitous only work for niche builds doesn't seem right though.

Arcanasx

Jaimeh wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

Having a buff that's pretty ubiquitous only work for niche builds doesn't seem right though.

Its almost as if they didn't take the time to properly think about it.

Tannus15

Arcanasx wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

Having a buff that's pretty ubiquitous only work for niche builds doesn't seem right though.

Its almost as if they didn't take the time to properly think about it.

i'd say it's more like they didn't have the time to adjust all the skills and sets that apply it appropriately.

Jaimeh

Arcanasx wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Empower will now help make some niche builds more viable and won't push the dps potential higher.

Obviously there are implications for classes that have this buff as part of their kit like templar and necro and i hope they look at those skills, but overall this is a very clever change.

Having a buff that's pretty ubiquitous only work for niche builds doesn't seem right though.

Its almost as if they didn't take the time to properly think about it.

Yeah, they could just have buffed HAs themselves for non-player enemies. Empower stays as it is, HA playstyles get buffed, no worries for pvp either.

Tannus15

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

I like that it gives a significant boost to heavy attack builds. I don't like that it doesn't boost Light Attacks at all. I don't think it would matter much if they left the 80% heavy attack increase and added back the 40% light attack increase as well. 80% HA increase won't effect you much if you're not a heavy attack build after all. what I mean is, they should add the 40% la increase without nerfing the ha increase, since the two are so different, it won't matter if they keep the ha bonus.

read what the OP has said from a different perspective.

they have ADDED the empower bonus to all light attacks. this version of PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower

then they have changed empower to do something unique for niche builds. it's really clever and i'm really happy about it.

This version of the PTS has roughly the same dps for light attacks as last week for light attacks + empower provided your stats are high enough for the scaling to increase your damage by as much as empower was providing.


For an extreme counter example, my pts punch tank went from doing around 4k damage on a light attack to around 1k damage.

I haven't played on the PTS enough yet to comment that much on the changes but, this definitely isn't a case of the developers making it so everyone's light attacks = light attack + empower of last week.

yes. if you had a pure tanky build with no weapon / spell damage and low max resources this was a nerf compared to week 1. i'm 100% fine with this too personally.

karekiz

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafCleanDinosaurCharlieBitMe-hnVKSNyTkIyPkJuR

97K Restro staff crit. Yes Restro staff. Wtf is going on? Empower needs to be changed back to what it was. Its basically making it a HA META

pklemming

karekiz wrote: »

REDACTED

Yes, we.know. Realised why it wasn't on here yet?

This was their 'considered patch' to counter the massive mess of the previous PTS changes.

This is a patch they should have thought long and hard about, and then TESTED.

I am at the point of saying, "just let this go live". If they can mess this up that much there is no hope, and at least I will have fun as I pick my new game.

Azurezaber

karekiz wrote: »

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeafCleanDinosaurCharlieBitMe-hnVKSNyTkIyPkJuR

97K Restro staff crit. Yes Restro staff. Wtf is going on? Empower needs to be changed back to what it was. Its basically making it a HA META

My resto HA hit for 135k earlier and I think I've seen in excess of 150k floating around somewhere, with an actual resto staff parse of 94k. Honestly if this goes through and the new raid comp becomes 1 tank + 11 DDs wielding resto staves at least we'll have a pretty comical patch cycle to play with lmao

Also, to be fair, these numbers are so high because I believe the vMA Inferno is still increasing LA/HA damage this week since the changes weren't complete.

But either way, this empower change really needs to be revisted as it was clearly not thought through before being implemented. Hell, keep the 80% HA buff, but at least provide some increase to LA too so all of the skills that provide it aren't completely useless. As is, I'd love to know how the 3 seconds of empower granted from mages guild skills and wrecking blow provide literally any benefit since these forms of it were clearly meant for buffing light attacks. This isn't even to mention how this change nerfs WW builds

Tannus15

resto staff fun times



148k crit

Tannus15

Sorry, when i'm not doing troll parses:

108k PTS


I gained 6k dps from last week

BrentBlemish

Tannus15 wrote: »

Sorry, when i'm not doing troll parses:

108k PTS


I gained 6k dps from last week

were you using empower last week?

Tannus15

BrentBlemish wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Sorry, when i'm not doing troll parses:

108k PTS


I gained 6k dps from last week

were you using empower last week?

no, there is no empower in the sorc kit

BrentBlemish

Tannus15 wrote: »

no, there is no empower in the sorc kit

Ah, well if you had someone giving you empower, your DPS would have been the same. which is kinda the point.

katorga

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

To start with - if HA is +80% DPS now and it is not a problem, why moltan armaments + empower was so much a big problem for you before changes ? )))

HA builds already on live with both this buffs do less damage than not HA builds with same HA rotation, so - do not worry. We do not get some thing good too

We are all in the same ... .

New empower doesn't work in pvp.

Molten did. It was pretty simple for me to sit on the edges of big fights and drop 35K+ hits on people, one after another, and once Oakensoul came out, with almost 100% uptime on 100% penetration. Fun, but not very fair.