No Sarcasms intended - Why so upset?

Lucidilusions

kevkj wrote: »

Lucidilusions wrote: »

You also you seem to think I believe "worse players" will be brought in to trials for just because the damage is lower.

I need a sanity check that both your statements don't mean the same thing.

Lucidilusions wrote: »

What I did say is that trials might be able to fill damage spots with people who have not mastered LA Weaving when needed vs being stuck only being able to choose from a pool of players that have. The assumption that these players are "worse" than the others appears to be something you came to all on your own.

What am I not understanding about your statements? Players who have not mastered LA Weaving are likely put out less damage than ones who have and so are objectively "worse". Sure you might have better situational awareness etc but the issue at hand is damage. That's not an assumption or opinion or personal prejudice. It's not meant to be insulting, it's just a fact. Even a 100k dps player is "worse" than a 130k dps player.

So you have this belief that this patch will somehow lead to raid groups lowering the dps requirement because? You wrote a whole essay and never addressed that point. People don't care if you LA weave or not. They care about the raw number you put out. If you can somehow hit their required number without weaving, that's good. If you weave perfectly but don't use the proper skills at all or have good gear, you won't hit the required number. No one cares why you cannot hit the number, they care if you do. You seem to be convinced that this will change despite "having no skin in the game". If damage is lowered across the board as others seem to be reporting, more players will be further from the benchmark required by groups. Please read this and understand it, this has been the main point everyone in this thread is trying to get across to you.

Perhaps a concrete example would help. Let's say you need 80k dps to join a certain raid group.

Player A has 'mastered' LA weaving. Currently they do 100k dps.

Player B has 'not mastered' LA weaving. Currently they do 60k dps.

Situation 1) The damage nerf is percentage based, let's say 10%.

Player A now does 90k dps.

Player B now does 54k dps.

Situation 2) The damage nerf is a fixed chunk for all players, regardless of skills or gear. Everyone loses 20k dps.

Player A now does 80k dps.

Player B now does 40k dps.

Can you show the rest of the class which player will get into the raid group in each situation? That's right, Player A every time. Player B will not have a higher chance of being asked to fill in a raid group. Arguably, they actually have a lower chance.

Well, I guess the game is over, and everyone should quit. I don't agree with what you're saying, but I also don't feel like continuing to try and discuss it with you. I guess you have won, enjoy lol

LeBrenn

First you make a thread with a lot of assumptions and kind of provocative accusations, which most people politely respond to explaining the problem and then you come back with more provocation and debauchery.

Kinda edgy, eh?

Jaraal

Ratzkifal wrote: »

CE_Nex wrote: »

Lucidilusions wrote: »

I'm not asking this sarcastically, I honestly don't get a lot of the anger over the weaving changes. The changes theoretically opens up more end-game content to more players and reduce a wall that some people are unable to overcome for various reasons.

The problem here is that these changes don't open up end-game content for more people.



All Damage Over Time abilities have been reduced by 33%, meaning every single build that uses any form of DoTs is going to see a damage decrease. It doesn't matter if you're a sweaty endgamer or someone who just started playing ESO 3 weeks ago: their DoT damage is going down.



Most DoTs will now tick every two seconds instead of every one second as it is now. This means your back bar weapon enchants will proc off of weapon skills, such as wall of elements and endless hail, half as frequently. That's an additional damage decrease. Also, in fights where bosses and mobs are highly mobile (Ex. Z'maja, Olms, Bahsei, Reef Guardian, etc.) they will take less ticks of damage from your AoE DoTs as these enemies will move out of them before the full duration may expire. As you move towards vet and hardmodes, players are forced to move more and more, making AoE DoTs even less effective, further reducing damage.

DPS who are practiced and knowledgable and already have copious expereince will be able to manage and adapt. DPS who are learning and are being introduced to the endgame content? Good luck, the learning curve just got significantly steeper.
[...]

I wanna add that because ZOS has made "dots more worthwhile in longer fights" the meta is ironically going to shift into a direction where you are trying to have as many dots up as possible... which makes for harder rotations... which means that the game has become more difficult, not less.
I've already seen a few people play that way on PTS. It looks like there are currently two schools of thought regarding this. Either you use a dot then a spammable and then the next dot, or you use all of your dots, then only spammables and 20s later you are going to stress over getting all of your dots reapplied at the right time. Eitherway, that's the opposite of an easy rotation.
ZOS could have just nerfed light attacks and buffed main spammable damage to keep damage the same assuming perfect weaving. That will keep the ceiling where it is and buff the floor because LA don't matter that much anymore. That's literally all they had to do. Buffing buff durations is also good, but touching the dots was a mistake and that they even came up with this idea tells me that the combat team doesn't understand combat

And that quote goes to show that this is strictly a PvE adjustment, because in PvP players will still be cleansing and purging DOTs as fast as they were before. So depowered but extended DOTs are useless, and a severe overall damage nerf for many people.

kieso

First thing that came to mind after reading the subject line was.

Why so serious? 🥴

Mr_Stach

You want to know why people are upset? I think the Weaving changes are flavor of the week. But the DoT Durations are Bizarre, they allow for stagnant boring gameplay and movement. If the future of the game is going to reflect this much slow cadence, I don't want to play it.

Personally I don't follow the other classes much, I'm a Warden Main, I basically just Play Warden. Here's my Review of the Week 1 PTS Notes


First the Good Changes, I refuse to go on a rant without giving Zos a little credit where they did good:

-Wings got their Snare Immunity, which is fantastic, we've been asking for that, simple fix and it's there.

-A small Budding Seeds Buff which is nice.

-Crystalized Slab had it's CD Removed, actually kind of huge against multi-hit ranged attacks that get blocked.

-Frozen Armor got an Unneeded Buff, but more tanky is good I guess

-Eternal Guardians Execute is now 150% which is a beefy hit, Hemorrhage from Feral is still better but at least the option is there.

-Screaming Cliff Racer is a false positive, they got rid of the stupid range thing, added an weapon/spell damage buff to it, but it's still Birds and is partially tied to Off-Balance so I still hate it.

Now, that's the good + the Screaming Cliff Racer False Positive situation, now the bad.

-Arctic Blast, looks ok until you actually look at it, the Burst Heal scales off Max Stats, GREAT, but you want it running for as lonf as possible to capitalize on the Damage and BLOCKABLE STUN. There's 2 AoE Blockable Stuns in Arctic Blast 1 at the 2nd tick and the last tick, so essentially 4s and 10s. Zos is obsessed with people having counterplay to Arctic Blast's Stun, before it was 3 damage ticks, then it was 5 damage ticks, now it's 2nd tick (which still means it's 4 seconds till you can stun someone btw) and you can block it. Just let me stun someone for the love of GOD. Also it's Duration isn't even on Par with the rest of the AoE DoT Standards that THEY JUST SET.

-Advanced Species, The biggest factor to a Warden's damage across the board was Advanced species, for the uninitiated it used to add 2% damage per animal companion skill slotted, now it adds 990. Pen is a good stat to have, but it's less important that damage considering there are much easier ways for players to get Pen. So Wardens just lost 6-12% Damage across the board from that one change.

-Winter's Revenge was the redeeming quality of Frost Wardens, we may have not had a lot of good frost abilities, but our one good one, it was GOOD. But with the DoT Duration increase I guess it was mega powerful because they hit it with 33% sledge. People say it was dunking on other Class AoEs, maybe But Warden definitely wasn't. I would have much preferred them reduce the Piercing Cold Passive, which is the highest Class Elemental Damage Buff in the Game, then see where Winter's Revenge Sits. But either way, Winter's Revenge just feels sad now.

-Birds still have their special thing tied to a ranged aspect of Proccing Off-Balance. It's a Stupid Hoop. Birds are still slow. I hate them and I hate that Zos tried to make Screaming Cliff Racers interesting without addressing the Hoop Issue that everyone has been asking about.

-Scorch and Morphs Cadence is just ruined, 5 years of using Scorch and my Rotations are all messed up because the timing is just so weird, you really didn't need to change it.

starkerealm

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Whenever a development company adjust a game to be inline with their initial design the elite players complain because now they have to do mechanic instead of simply by passing them with higher damage output. What will probably happen is more players needing to be revived because mechanic now become a factor in completing content.

This isn’t the first time I see this type of change in game.

What mechanics, exactly, are currently being bypassed?

Shout, Runners, Poison Phase, Lunar Phase, Ghosts, Wall, Shield Phase, Chains, Sacrifices, Blood Sacrifices, Fleshy Bois, Purge, Clones, Infusers.. You'll have to forgive me but this is not a complete list.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Can you name them?

I mean, if you insist, they are now, all named Steve.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

What dungeons or trials are they in?

Rockgrove, Asylum Sanctorium, Aetherian Archive, Hel Ra Citadel, Sanctum Ophidia, Sunspire, Maw of Lorkhaj, Cloudrest, Halls of Fabricatoin, Kyne's Aegis, Axe Condominium, Banished Cells 1, Banished Cells 2, Blackheart Haven, Blessed Crucible, City of Ash, City of Ash 2, Crypt of Hearts, Crypt of Hearts 2, Darkshade Caverns, Darkshade Caverns 2, Direfrost Keep, Elden Hollow, Elden Hollow 2, Fungal Grotto, Fungal Grotto 2.Selene's Web, Spindleclutch, Spindleclutch 2, Tempest Island, Vaults of Madness (bonus points, burning past this will kill a party member), Volenfell, Wayrest Sewers, Wayrest Sewers 2, ICP, WGT, Cradle of Spiders, Ruins of Mazzatun, Bloodroot Forge, Falkreath Hold, Fang Lair, Scalecaller Peak, March of Sacrifices, Moonhunter Keep, Depths of Malatar (bonus points, if you don't burn past some of these mechanics, the encounter punishes you), Frostvault, Moongrave Fane, Icereach, Unhallowed Grave, Castle Thorn (I think? Not 100% sure), Stone Garden, Black Drake Villa, The Cauldron, The Dread Cellar, RPB, DSA, Maelstrom, and Vateshran.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Who is bypassing them?

Dude, you should know, naming and shaming is against the rules.

Riptide

Steve

Castagere

I saw that stream and all I hear is how this will be better for new players. Yet it is a lie. In the overland content, it will be harder and the funny part is all the hardcore players that were screaming for overland to be harder get their wish. They have gone in and nerfed just about everything. Talk about being just brain dead when it comes to their player base. They just go in and change what they want no matter what the player base wants and we pay them money to do it. This always happens in MMO's so no one should be surprised at all. My main is a Magic Templar and I swear if overland, Delves, public dungeons, and overland questing is more time-consuming I might just give up. I don't PVP and could care less about the group content. And that Oakensoul ring was just a dumb idea. Look what they keep doing to it.

starkerealm

Castagere wrote: »

...and the funny part is all the hardcore players that were screaming for overland to be harder get their wish.

That's actually the worst part, they don't.

They get more tedious overland, with enemies taking just long enough to kill that you notice you're having to repeat a keypress or two, but not so long as to actually provide any real challenge.

There's this horrible place where overland isn't harder, it just takes a tiny bit longer, for endgame players.

festegios

Lucidilusions wrote: »

I'm not asking this sarcastically, I honestly don't get a lot of the anger over the weaving changes. The changes theoretically opens up more end-game content to more players and reduce a wall that some people are unable to overcome for various reasons.,

But how does it?

Sync01

Lucidilusions wrote: »

What I did say is that trials might be able to fill damage spots with people who have not mastered LA Weaving when needed vs being stuck only being able to choose from a pool of players that have. The assumption that these players are "worse" than the others appears to be something you came to all on your own.

As a raid leader and someone who's simply done a lot of trials I can assure you I have not seen a single trial group that require LA weaving. What we do require is a certain amount of DPS. You can hit 100k dps without weaving (current patch), sure it will be less than if you are weaving but still. I can also say that the dps requirements for trials are not changing, so trial groups will still ask for the same dps but now we have a lower amount of people who can do the content.

Mr_Stach

Theoretically makes everyone do less damage so the Barrier of entry is technically higher lol

Riptide

In the overland content, it will be harder and the funny part is all the hardcore players that were screaming for overland to be harder get their wish.

I tell you, comments like these are seriously what simply has folks shrugging off the forums.

Screaming? Come on.

And seriously, the overwhelming consensus for years has been to make an optional harder mode. Optional. Because the majority of “hardcore” are in fact reasonable people perfectly happy to compromise.

Now folks that post loaded things like this do rather make you wonder what is the point.

FantasticFreddie

C

starkerealm wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Whenever a development company adjust a game to be inline with their initial design the elite players complain because now they have to do mechanic instead of simply by passing them with higher damage output. What will probably happen is more players needing to be revived because mechanic now become a factor in completing content.

This isn’t the first time I see this type of change in game.

What mechanics, exactly, are currently being bypassed?

Shout, Runners, Poison Phase, Lunar Phase, Ghosts, Wall, Shield Phase, Chains, Sacrifices, Blood Sacrifices, Fleshy Bois, Purge, Clones, Infusers.. You'll have to forgive me but this is not a complete list.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Can you name them?

I mean, if you insist, they are now, all named Steve.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

What dungeons or trials are they in?

Rockgrove, Asylum Sanctorium, Aetherian Archive, Hel Ra Citadel, Sanctum Ophidia, Sunspire, Maw of Lorkhaj, Cloudrest, Halls of Fabricatoin, Kyne's Aegis, Axe Condominium, Banished Cells 1, Banished Cells 2, Blackheart Haven, Blessed Crucible, City of Ash, City of Ash 2, Crypt of Hearts, Crypt of Hearts 2, Darkshade Caverns, Darkshade Caverns 2, Direfrost Keep, Elden Hollow, Elden Hollow 2, Fungal Grotto, Fungal Grotto 2.Selene's Web, Spindleclutch, Spindleclutch 2, Tempest Island, Vaults of Madness (bonus points, burning past this will kill a party member), Volenfell, Wayrest Sewers, Wayrest Sewers 2, ICP, WGT, Cradle of Spiders, Ruins of Mazzatun, Bloodroot Forge, Falkreath Hold, Fang Lair, Scalecaller Peak, March of Sacrifices, Moonhunter Keep, Depths of Malatar (bonus points, if you don't burn past some of these mechanics, the encounter punishes you), Frostvault, Moongrave Fane, Icereach, Unhallowed Grave, Castle Thorn (I think? Not 100% sure), Stone Garden, Black Drake Villa, The Cauldron, The Dread Cellar, RPB, DSA, Maelstrom, and Vateshran.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Who is bypassing them?

Dude, you should know, naming and shaming is against the rules.

Looks like you just threw spaghetti at the wall and hoped some would stick. Named some vague mechanics, listed a bunch of different dungeons and trials, gave 0 details LOL.

vAS-- You can skip killing the mini bosses, at great personal risk. You still have to obey all of their mechanic or it is a wipe. I guarantee everyone in a mini skip vAS knows from lots and LOTS of experience exactly what happens if you fail.
Rockgrove-- as far as I know, there aren't any mechanics you can outright skip via burn. After the last mini boss comes up on first boss, the pools all turn to lava and the actual trial design is a dps/hps race-- kill the boss before the poison kills your team.
VMoL I'll grant you-- just regular vMoL and a super sweaty hm team rarely do runners. Any non-sweaty hm team, or a team that wants to get DD all run the backyard however.
VKA-- not sure what you think you skip via burn there. Going on the boat? Most people do that. A super super sweaty team going for world record might try and skip conga-- I've heard of it. Not seen it done, or met anyone that actually did it.
But, there is a theme here.

The only people skipping mechanics are the people who have mastered the HECK out of this game. I guarantee you, they can perform mechanics just fine. They are skipping them for fun, not necessity. People acting like people are mad because they were burning through mechanics and now are mad because they won't understand those mechanics-- no.
The people who can ignore mechanicsand just burn ARE NOT the people that will be struggling to clear that content. This nerf is an insultand inconvenience, but it does not break the game. This nerf hurt the people that are already struggling to clear that same content without skips

Cadbury

Riptide wrote: »

In the overland content, it will be harder and the funny part is all the hardcore players that were screaming for overland to be harder get their wish.

I tell you, comments like these are seriously what simply has folks shrugging off the forums.

Screaming? Come on.

And seriously, the overwhelming consensus for years has been to make an optional harder mode. Optional. Because the majority of “hardcore” are in fact reasonable people perfectly happy to compromise.

Now folks that post loaded things like this do rather make you wonder what is the point.

Us vs. Them.

Agenericname

Cadbury wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

In the overland content, it will be harder and the funny part is all the hardcore players that were screaming for overland to be harder get their wish.

I tell you, comments like these are seriously what simply has folks shrugging off the forums.

Screaming? Come on.

And seriously, the overwhelming consensus for years has been to make an optional harder mode. Optional. Because the majority of “hardcore” are in fact reasonable people perfectly happy to compromise.

Now folks that post loaded things like this do rather make you wonder what is the point.

Us vs. Them.

The Sophia gif is worth an awesome.

Katheriah

Lucidilusions wrote: »

I'm not asking this sarcastically

Sorry, but after reading your post I'm convinced that you either are being sarcastic or you have not seen the changes. I will give you honest, non-sarcastic responses though since that's what you asked for.

Lucidilusions wrote: »

The changes theoretically opens up more end-game content to more players and reduce a wall that some people are unable to overcome for various reasons.

The "idea" or the theory that has been shared with us is really nice. I would have no issues if that was what they implemented. Instead: they did not just nerf LA weaving. What is available on PTS right now is not opening more end-game content to anyone. In fact: the people that barely did enough DPS to finish end-game content will now struggle more or in fact now not be able to finish the content anymore.

In the meanwhile, people that did the aboslute maximum DPS that's possible in the game will still be able to finish content DPS wise. For them it will take longer. For the people that were already struggling they effectively made it worse.

Lucidilusions wrote: »

I know a lot of people have spent time learning how to weave, but does the change really do anything to affect you?

Yes, the change does affect me. I don't do the absolute maximum amount of DPS. In fact: I'm a dork when it comes to DPS. My group will go from "Almost good enough to do Unchained" to "Lol, maybe just do vDSA?".

Lucidilusions wrote: »

The only difference I can see is that you may now be able to fill a spot with a person who wasn't able to master weaving to accomplish a task vs being locked in to only being able to include DPS that could master it.

Respectfully, this is not how this works. Especially not for how this was implemented.

Lucidilusions wrote: »

I'm like, "Umm why?" why would you leave just because more people will be able to do higher damage now, is it an ego thing?

Nobody does higher damage. Absolutely nobody.

Pevey

I think Cadbury's attitude is awesome.

My feeling at this point is that I have had no desire to log in since the combat preview, and I think I probably won't feel the pull to again. So I am halfway caring/grieving about the game I loved and invested so much time into and also halfway already detaching and getting ready to watch this go live and be captivated by the horror show of seeing the plane go down in real time.

I hope ZOS is looking at and considering the stats for where their revenue comes from. I don't think it is really the revolving door of new players like some ppl think. And I hope they are taking into account the effect of allowing crowns to be traded for gold, which means that a higher percentage of crowns purchased are feeding endgamer demand than what might be at first apparent.

This whole situation is better than a Harvard b-school case study, playing out in real time.

starkerealm

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

VMoL I'll grant you-- just regular vMoL and a super sweaty hm team rarely do runners. Any non-sweaty hm team, or a team that wants to get DD all run the backyard however.

This is probably the best example of what you're not seeing. There are entire phases of Rakhat's fight that the community treat as wipe mechanics, when, they're not.

The content was designed with the expectation that players would go through multiple lunar phases... good luck seeing that happen at all. And, skipping Runners is not a super sweaty thing, one or two pad burns are, but a three pad burn (which skips runners) has become remarkably common.

Now, go back and look at that spaghetti. Note that there are specific dungeons that are not listed. That wasn't accidental. I was reading down a list, but I was going from memory which ones have DPS burn bypasses. There may be a few errors, like, if you told me that I was thinking of a mechanic that got cut for one, okay, could have happened.

Also, I have neither the time, nor inclination, to list every skip. VMoL has three that I'm sure of, and I think five potential skips. That's one trial. Something like VoM has three specific ones that are full on skips, and a few edge cases.

So far as it goes, I've been in a run of vSCP with Rich where we pushed Za'an to skip her poison wedges, shield bash, and flame beam, might have bypassed flame wave, did bypass lemonades on an earlier boss, and Doyle's Balls, I think we bypassed ice shards, but I'm not sure of that that last one. With Za'an, the one thing you can't skip is ice phase. Do the math, that's seven mechanics for that specific dungeon. There's over fifty dungeons. Conservatively, there are probably between 200 and 250 mechanics that can be burnt past in endgame content. Ironically, some of these mechanics are things that your average player isn't even going to be aware of. It is almost literally impossible to clear Spindle2 without accidentally burning past a mechanic.

So, who does that? Literally everyone who clears that dungeon on vet.

lordspyder

Here's the real problem. I am disabled It's all I can do to put out 30k DPS. On the PTS I now do 15k. I'm done. I am now locked out of most of the content I used to be able to do. I have played since beta but if this patch goes live, I'm done. If I can't continue to play the content, I find enjoyable there is no reason to play.

Agenericname

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Whenever a development company adjust a game to be inline with their initial design the elite players complain because now they have to do mechanic instead of simply by passing them with higher damage output. What will probably happen is more players needing to be revived because mechanic now become a factor in completing content.

This isn’t the first time I see this type of change in game.

I'm not saying that ZOS isnt looking at this or that it isnt part of their motivation, and probably more people will need to be revived, but bypassing the mechanics in some circumstances was intentional, by the devs.

Minimal Animosity for example; Defeat Orryn the Black and Thurvokun while only destroying a maximum of one Animus Crystal before Orryn merges with Thurvokun in Veteran Fang Lair.

Depths of Malatar's Color Blind; Don't destroy any colored orbs during the Dark Orb encounter in Veteran Depths of Malatar.

Scale Caller Peak's Doctor's Orders; Defeat Plague Concocter Mortieu in Veteran Scalecaller Peak with four living group members all suffering from two of Mortieu's infections simultaneously.

In all three of those cases the players are encouraged to skip mechanics and rewarded for it. I'm sure that ZOS looks at this data and makes adjustments based on what that data shows. In fact, they said as much when the removed the attronarchs from Galchobhar's Island in BRF, but I dont think that this was what they were going for. It doesnt in any way, at least not at the moment, make that content more accessible.

SteamKitten01

starkerealm wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

VMoL I'll grant you-- just regular vMoL and a super sweaty hm team rarely do runners. Any non-sweaty hm team, or a team that wants to get DD all run the backyard however.

This is probably the best example of what you're not seeing. There are entire phases of Rakhat's fight that the community treat as wipe mechanics, when, they're not.

The content was designed with the expectation that players would go through multiple lunar phases... good luck seeing that happen at all. And, skipping Runners is not a super sweaty thing, one or two pad burns are, but a three pad burn (which skips runners) has become remarkably common.

Now, go back and look at that spaghetti. Note that there are specific dungeons that are not listed. That wasn't accidental. I was reading down a list, but I was going from memory which ones have DPS burn bypasses. There may be a few errors, like, if you told me that I was thinking of a mechanic that got cut for one, okay, could have happened.

Also, I have neither the time, nor inclination, to list every skip. VMoL has three that I'm sure of, and I think five potential skips. That's one trial. Something like VoM has three specific ones that are full on skips, and a few edge cases.

So far as it goes, I've been in a run of vSCP with Rich where we pushed Za'an to skip her poison wedges, shield bash, and flame beam, might have bypassed flame wave, did bypass lemonades on an earlier boss, and Doyle's Balls, I think we bypassed ice shards, but I'm not sure of that that last one. With Za'an, the one thing you can't skip is ice phase. Do the math, that's seven mechanics for that specific dungeon. There's over fifty dungeons. Conservatively, there are probably between 200 and 250 mechanics that can be burnt past in endgame content. Ironically, some of these mechanics are things that your average player isn't even going to be aware of. It is almost literally impossible to clear Spindle2 without accidentally burning past a mechanic.

So, who does that? Literally everyone who clears that dungeon on vet.

The problem with a lot of these examples is that they have such a low DPS threshold that people have been "skipping" the mechs for year. The first time I cleared vet spindle 2 way back in 2018, we (a PUG) blew through the mechanics. I've run SCII a LOT since then and have NEVER had a group actually fail HM. vMoL HM only requires ~225k group DPS for a 7 pad burn which has been easily doable for years. And I wouldn't call the bypassing lemonaids in SCP a DPS skip since it's due to the group's position and not group DPS. And all of Z'aan's mechanics excluding simulacrums are random. You're not guaranteed to get every mechanic in a set order and if you're in a low DPS group you'll often see mechanics occur 2-3x minimum each phase so I fail to see how them just occurring less is "skipping"

As for some other "burn strats" they're often very much a high risk, high reward situation. And at least in my experience, more attempts at burn strats wind up with a group wipe than with a successful clear.

Ragnarok0130

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Theoretically makes everyone do less damage so the Barrier of entry is technically higher lol

Exactly. So now that DPS is lower across the board leads will inevitably be more stringent with the DPS requirements whereas earlier one could bring in someone who’s learning and make up for their lower DPS since overall DPS from veteran players was higher. This change locks people out of vet content instead of opening it up like the devs stated their goal was.

Margha_Ralmoren

Funny because last week I considered buying High Isles after I finished my light attack sorc build (energy overload, bound armaments, crystal frags and undaunted unweaver/kinras/maelstrom staff) Not doing crazy damage but more fun and engaging than the boring pet build this toon was stuck with before. Good thing I watched the stream first ! Now the time I would have spent in High Isle, I'll spend it finding another build. Ah nevermind then, I'll get the chapter when it's cheaper in October.

I got the opposite problem with the Scalebreaker update with my stamden. With the powerful dots I managed to get 45k dps on a non trial dummy (I'm an average solo player, I'm around 25-30k). When the dots update was reverted later, my stamden dropped back to 25k. Oh well.
When ESO gets growing pains like this the best is to leave the game for a few months until the dust settles.

ZOS does have questionable ideas sometimes: remember a few years back when shields were so op you could stack them and magsorcs could survive one shot mechanics ? ZOS's first idea to remedy this was to... add a cast time to shields on PTS. At least it didn't go live.

But overall despite the backs and forths I think the game is still going in the right direction. The new CP system, stickerbook and hybridization were ZOS' best ideas. I'm not worried about the game dying yet

kevkj

@Katheriah It's pretty obvious that OP is just trolling at this point. Never explain why they disagree, just that they do. Akin to a toddler covering their ears.

It's an absolute failure of forum moderation that posts like this stay up, but anything short of supreme politeness and patience will be struck down. Concern trolling is acceptable, but you can't tell it like it is and call someone an idiot.

starkerealm

@SteamKitten01, Freddie singled out vMoL, and it is a pretty good example of how a number of increasingly aggressive burn strats have become the norm. I mean, that trial was originally designed around something like 150-180k group. It's possible you could do a Dungeon team run of vMoL today (though I'm not completely confident of that. Twins could still cause issues, and good luck finding anyone who remembers how to do lunar phase.)

ZOS_Lunar

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