ESO PVP R.I.P. 2014-2022

Redguards_Revenge

https://youtu.be/llGPpCzYT48

Mr_Stach

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Rohamad_Ali

RIP

TechMaybeHic

LMAO! The dramatic music. The battle prep. Then THUD!

Udrath

That was great lol

RIP

bluehomeos

Just nerf these one shot builds and buff minor and major defile to 30 / 60% it will cure many things

Luede

bluehomeos wrote: »

Just nerf these one shot builds and buff minor and major defile to 30 / 60% it will cure many things

brilliant, then i guess you just have to be lucky enough to play the right class to rock properly

Artim_X

Not gonna lie...


It was so anticlimactic. You see it coming, but are we really expected to treat every fire staff heavy as potentially fatal?

Dorkener

Perfect. The build up / fanfare into *poof*
Now imagine the Cyro edition where you first ride ~10mins to get to "the action", with the same result.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Dorkener wrote: »

Perfect. The build up / fanfare into *poof*
Now imagine the Cyro edition where you first ride ~10mins to get to "the action", with the same result.

You mean 20mins right?

Tommy_The_Gun

Dorkener wrote: »

Perfect. The build up / fanfare into *poof*
Now imagine the Cyro edition where you first ride ~10mins to get to "the action", with the same result.

Once those builds will get more popular (and they will, as it is not a rocket science), In Cyro you will have gankers working in pairs/groups to insta-kill mounted solo players travelling between keeps. There will be no way to avoid this, no matter how much tanky you will be.

Neoauspex

Make defensive stance and s+b ulti reflect this so we can make people one shot themselves. I don't mind powerful things in the game as long as there's a good counter in the game too

Holycannoli

Forgive the noob question but an almost 32k heavy attack? How?

CameraBeardThePirate

Holycannoli wrote: »

Forgive the noob question but an almost 32k heavy attack? How?

In addition to stacking tons of damage (likely crit damage along with the oakensoul ring), MagDKs have a large heavy attack damage boost from Molten Armaments. Combine that with Corrosive Armor, one of the best offensive ults in the game, and DKs are able to reach crazy high heavy attack damage numbers without getting mitigated by armor at all.

Udrath

Holycannoli wrote: »

Forgive the noob question but an almost 32k heavy attack? How?

I imagine...sergeants mail, undaunted unweaver/inflitrator, maybe storm master. Molten armaments buff, mages guild passive "Might of the Guild" for empower, oakensoul.

All this damage applies to heavy attacks..so...3031 SD + 2014 SD + 50% molten armaments heavy attack damage increase + 40% empower damage increase + oakensoul 10% major berserk and major force +20% crit damage, possible minor force too so another +10% crit damage and oakensoul has major courage too so add another 430 spell damage. Then infused ring spell damage gylphs, light armor (maybe medium for better passives? 14% spell damage/crit damage increase with 7/7 medium), then a mundas, and nirnhoned weapon.

Nemeliom

I rather have this horrible one shot than the cross healing... unkillables are way more frustrating than this one shot builds.

MEBengalsFan2001

Udrath wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Forgive the noob question but an almost 32k heavy attack? How?

I imagine...sergeants mail, undaunted unweaver/inflitrator, maybe storm master. Molten armaments buff, mages guild passive "Might of the Guild" for empower, oakensoul.

All this damage applies to heavy attacks..so...3031 SD + 2014 SD + 50% molten armaments heavy attack damage increase + 40% empower damage increase + oakensoul 10% major berserk and major force +20% crit damage, possible minor force too so another +10% crit damage and oakensoul has major courage too so add another 430 spell damage. Then infused ring spell damage gylphs, light armor (maybe medium for better passives? 14% spell damage/crit damage increase with 7/7 medium), then a mundas, and nirnhoned weapon.

Didn't watch the video but CP can also buff light/heavy attack damage as well.

Arcanasx

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower (while reducing its cost and duration somewhat) to prevent being able to stack both buffs. They could also try preventing the bonus to light and heavy attack damage from these sets and the Empower buff from applying while the user is invisible and in stealth.

Udrath

@Arcanasx Introduce minor and major empower 5%/10% and change molten armaments to 10% resource gain from heavy attacks would be nice balance I think

Arcanasx

Udrath wrote: »

@Arcanasx Introduce minor and major empower 5%/10% and change molten armaments to 10% resource gain from heavy attacks would be nice balance I think

This would make the skill useless. The point of my proposal is to tone down the extreme end of potential damage (inferno ganking basically) while keeping it as a useful option for other builds that don't rely on ganking.

It seems over 90% of builds using Molten Armaments are vamp inferno gankers these days and your change would further punish those who aren't using it to gank because of gankers who are currently (ab)using it.

Edit: And by the 90% of builds comment I meant actually using it for heavy attack damage than just using the skill as a weapon damage buff.

divnyi

Arcanasx wrote: »

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower

Will kill the skill.
Sets need to be nerfed not to apply from stealth, like a whole lot of gank sets do.

Also permanent solution for this type of madness is reducing damage via battle spirit and reducing healing even more.
It's not like the only oneshot build. We have completely unavoidable NB caluurion selene build that hits for 35k+ with HA (stuns) incap -> spin2win.

Tommy_The_Gun

Nemeliom wrote: »

I rather have this horrible one shot than the cross healing... unkillables are way more frustrating than this one shot builds.

Tbh. High burst or one-shots in PvP was never good for the game either and overall even more harmful than tanky meta, since it was always causing one of 2 things:
- A: Players build even more tanky to survive multiple one shots.
- B: Players will die a couple of times to it and simply put - they will stop playing or move to no-cp or other games / pve game modes (especially if this will keep happening at questing hubs... and yes - it will happen in questing hubs).

This will leave pretty much only ball groups & small scale tower fighters - which is already kinda noticable. If you play Cyro PvP for a longer time you probably also notice that PvP population has been steadily dwindling... amount of players interested in PvP is getting lower & lower. I don't see any new players who tryout Cyro and stay there. Pretty much everyone either leaves immediately or they stay only to get AW rank / AW skills maxed. The only players that keep playing PvP are the ones that started it long time ago. But even many of those stopped playing over time.

The biggest issue for sure are performance issues, but game balance (or lack of it) is pretty much the second biggest issue. Let's not pretend "it is fine !". Balance is completely out of wack. Class balance, set balance, skill balance... it is all over the place. I won't even mention the 3rd problem - which would be "entry level" skill required as it is way too high.

Dorkener

I agree with the sentiment that output is too high (dmg and healing both). Healthbars are like yo-yos, getting spiked 100->20% HP and also blockcasting 10->80% HP in oce GCD. There's no "tug of war" in between. It's very bland.

Dagoth_Rac

Udrath wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Forgive the noob question but an almost 32k heavy attack? How?

I imagine...sergeants mail, undaunted unweaver/inflitrator, maybe storm master. Molten armaments buff, mages guild passive "Might of the Guild" for empower, oakensoul.

All this damage applies to heavy attacks..so...3031 SD + 2014 SD + 50% molten armaments heavy attack damage increase + 40% empower damage increase + oakensoul 10% major berserk and major force +20% crit damage, possible minor force too so another +10% crit damage and oakensoul has major courage too so add another 430 spell damage. Then infused ring spell damage gylphs, light armor (maybe medium for better passives? 14% spell damage/crit damage increase with 7/7 medium), then a mundas, and nirnhoned weapon.

I believe DK have an ult that lets them bypass all enemy armor/spell resist for 10 seconds. I think that plays a bigger part in this than people realize. 105% boost to heavy attacks between Molten + Empower + CP, against a squishy target with 0% resistance? Yikes.

TechMaybeHic

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

I rather have this horrible one shot than the cross healing... unkillables are way more frustrating than this one shot builds.

Tbh. High burst or one-shots in PvP was never good for the game either and overall even more harmful than tanky meta, since it was always causing one of 2 things:
- A: Players build even more tanky to survive multiple one shots.
- B: Players will die a couple of times to it and simply put - they will stop playing or move to no-cp or other games / pve game modes (especially if this will keep happening at questing hubs... and yes - it will happen in questing hubs).

This will leave pretty much only ball groups & small scale tower fighters - which is already kinda noticable. If you play Cyro PvP for a longer time you probably also notice that PvP population has been steadily dwindling... amount of players interested in PvP is getting lower & lower. I don't see any new players who tryout Cyro and stay there. Pretty much everyone either leaves immediately or they stay only to get AW rank / AW skills maxed. The only players that keep playing PvP are the ones that started it long time ago. But even many of those stopped playing over time.

The biggest issue for sure are performance issues, but game balance (or lack of it) is pretty much the second biggest issue. Let's not pretend "it is fine !". Balance is completely out of wack. Class balance, set balance, skill balance... it is all over the place. I won't even mention the 3rd problem - which would be "entry level" skill required as it is way too high.

It's already mostly ball up or faction stack. Maybe not full ball group, but at least stack HOTs and try coordinated ulti-dumps.

Arcanasx

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower

Will kill the skill.
Sets need to be nerfed not to apply from stealth, like a whole lot of gank sets do.

Also permanent solution for this type of madness is reducing damage via battle spirit and reducing healing even more.
It's not like the only oneshot build. We have completely unavoidable NB caluurion selene build that hits for 35k+ with HA (stuns) incap -> spin2win.

How does replacing a 50% bonus to heavy attacks with a buff that increases the damage of both light and heavy attacks by 40% (with empower which will limit buff stacking) kill the skill?

And Id rather they focus on toning down cross healing first and see how it impacts the meta before they mess with battle spirit. An across the board healing reduction is going to make players even more reliant on cross heals to survive, and cross heals are already overtuned.

Cadbury

I'm no longer surprised.

Whenever I queue for BG/Cyro/Dungeons:

divnyi

Arcanasx wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower

Will kill the skill.
Sets need to be nerfed not to apply from stealth, like a whole lot of gank sets do.

Also permanent solution for this type of madness is reducing damage via battle spirit and reducing healing even more.
It's not like the only oneshot build. We have completely unavoidable NB caluurion selene build that hits for 35k+ with HA (stuns) incap -> spin2win.

How does replacing a 50% bonus to heavy attacks with a buff that increases the damage of both light and heavy attacks by 40% (with empower which will limit buff stacking) kill the skill?

Exactly, you already have empower from other sources.
It is the only competitive advantage for lightning staff heavy attack DK, other than that heavy attacks are better on other classes with better utilities.

Arcanasx

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower

Will kill the skill.
Sets need to be nerfed not to apply from stealth, like a whole lot of gank sets do.

Also permanent solution for this type of madness is reducing damage via battle spirit and reducing healing even more.
It's not like the only oneshot build. We have completely unavoidable NB caluurion selene build that hits for 35k+ with HA (stuns) incap -> spin2win.

How does replacing a 50% bonus to heavy attacks with a buff that increases the damage of both light and heavy attacks by 40% (with empower which will limit buff stacking) kill the skill?

Exactly, you already have empower from other sources.
It is the only competitive advantage for lightning staff heavy attack DK, other than that heavy attacks are better on other classes with better utilities.

DK heavy attacks builds can definitely work without needing to stack empower with molten. You could have made dk heavy attack builds work before empower started bufffing heavy attacks again. Even nightblade heavy attack builds could work back then without having molten or empower because of the crit damage they could stack. DK's having access to a heavy attack buff that lasts for more than 3 seconds already makes heavy attack builds worth it for DKs as far as class utilities go.

Empower working with heavy attacks again is the main reason why heavy attack sets are getting nerfed, even after molten existing as it currently does for years. Yet I don't see them reverting the empower change anytime soon. What I do see is them likely nerfing these sets and even molten itself just because of these gank builds that are at the extreme end of potential damage. They'll keep doing these across the board nerfs, and in doing so they'll make builds that aren't even an issue absolutely useless and the only heavy attack builds left that will be able to do any reasonable damage whatsoever will be the gank builds that are also the reason why these nerfs will happen.

DrSlaughtr

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

They could try replacing the Molten Armaments 50% buff with Empower

Will kill the skill.
Sets need to be nerfed not to apply from stealth, like a whole lot of gank sets do.

Also permanent solution for this type of madness is reducing damage via battle spirit and reducing healing even more.
It's not like the only oneshot build. We have completely unavoidable NB caluurion selene build that hits for 35k+ with HA (stuns) incap -> spin2win.

Hold up. Caluurions and Selenes are both ridiculously avoidable. If you're getting got by Selene's, which has a 1.3 second wait time, then you made a mistake. Most of the NB toolkit right now tells you to roll dodge. Incap/Harvest? Sound effect. Caluurions/Selenes? You know it's coming the moment they tap you. Block or roll dodge. Survive. Kill the NB. I find the Selene's build hilarious right now because the ONLY people you are going to kill with Selenes are inexperienced players or players who have been desynced and can't break free. The latter isn't on the NB. That's a server issue.

The caluurions/selenes/deadlands build is ineffective against experienced players and it also robs you of either speed or execute damage, both of which are much more useful for bursting down enemies.

The issue in this thread is the magDK (and to a lesser extent, magNB) heavy attack builds. 99% of the time you aren't ever going to see that flame coming at you, because it's either from behind or you're in the middle of combat, and there's nothing you can do once it hits you. You're toasty.