Lets talk Zos: Nightblade vs Warden vs Sorcerer Healer

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How is this fair?

.......

Nightblade

• Refreshing Path (morph): This morph now also grants Minor Endurance and Intellect for 4 seconds each tick.

Sorcerer

• Empowered Ward
• Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 2838 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength capped at 50% of your Max Health.
• Also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds.
• Reduces the cost, increases the duration, and also grants you and your allies Minor Intellect.

Warden
Enchanted Growth

• Seed a large area of mushrooms that heals you and all allies in your frontal cone for 822 Health.
• Any target healed gains Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance. increasing their Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 20 seconds.

Affected target have increased Magicka and Stamina Recovery.


Why doesn't Empowered Ward give Minor Endurance?

ESO_Nightingale

you got warden and sorc mixed around. gotta edit that.

FeedbackOnly

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

you got warden and sorc mixed around. gotta edit that.

Thanks

ESO_Nightingale

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

you got warden and sorc mixed around. gotta edit that.

Thanks

no problem. agreed tho, it should give minor endurance too.

FeedbackOnly

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

you got warden and sorc mixed around. gotta edit that.

Thanks

no problem. agreed tho, it should give minor endurance too.

It's mind boggling. Both nightblade and Warden get a heal with the effect. One could argue that sorc gets it on 12 and others only 6 at a time because it's a heal, but that's easy fix by applying twice within time span. Costs doesn't matter either as healers have higher regain then dps and tank.

the1andonlyskwex

DK healer says "hi"?

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the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

DK healer says "hi"?

That's it's own topic.... Lets talk about Emperor Class Warden Healers problem elsewhere.

the1andonlyskwex

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

DK healer says "hi"?

That's it's own topic.... Lets talk about Emperor Class Warden Healers problem elsewhere.

My point is that healing classes don't all have to provide the same buffs.

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the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

DK healer says "hi"?

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

DK healer says "hi"?

That's it's own topic.... Lets talk about Emperor Class Warden Healers problem elsewhere.

My point is that healing classes don't all have to provide the same buffs.

Okay so what is world Sorc have over Nightblade and Warden to make up for this? Please tell me? It what world is this balanced?

The answer is it's simply not balanced. Lets not kid ourselves.


Edit:

I wanted to add dk healer have up to 5 group support tools. Stagger, flames, shield, potion buffs, class minor buff.

Sorc has penetration and minor intellect (which warden and nightblade have)

the1andonlyskwex

What do NB and Warden have that's comparable to Critical Surge, or Absorption Field? How about the best burst heal, Twilight Matriarch? Where's NB's damage shield to compare with Empowered Ward? How about Charged Atronach and it's synergy? Why does Teleport Strike require a target when Streak doesn't? Why is Sorc's execute a delayed burst when Warden's requires a double-barred pet?

Different classes have different abilities that do different things from each other.

FeedbackOnly

Edited but dk healers way more then sorcs. The problem with them is elsewhere.

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

What do NB and Warden have that's comparable to Critical Surge, or Absorption Field? How about the best burst heal, Twilight Matriarch? Where's NB's damage shield to compare with Empowered Ward? How about Charged Atronach and it's synergy? Why does Teleport Strike require a target when Streak doesn't? Why is Sorc's execute a delayed burst when Warden's requires a double-barred pet?

Different classes have different abilities that do different things from each other.

Sure I got this

Critical Surge

This is tied to critical healing mind you. So any other aoe heal is better here as it's easier to use. It has no group support with it.

Absorption Field pve wise It's has what 1 or 2 usages? Now we can agrue the stun is imporant but that's not a healer's job it's on tank. Even if it was nightblade has a fear skill to do just that. Warden has lots of option with chilled

Twlight Matriach is only best heal on dps not healers. HPS wise warden will always win right next to nightblade in how much raw healing they can give.

Empowered Ward - Do nightblades need a damage shiled without all the debuffs and buffs they can give to group? Not to mention with status effect change to champion passive that grants allies peneration for using status effects. They are in the lead.

Teleport strike

You are just giving me this one right?

Quick Reminder - we are talking about healers

Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy, dealing 492 Magic Damage and afflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for 10 seconds, increasing their damage taken by 5%.

This is aoe minor vulnerability that works 99 percent of the time. Streak has no group support anymore as zos took that one away.


So conclusion it's not balanced still

the1andonlyskwex

Whoosh...

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

the1andonlyskwex

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong , zos only- favors warden healers now

the1andonlyskwex

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong

There's unbalance all over the place if you cherry pick individual components of individual skills. Maybe someone else is mad that Empowered Ward provides a huge damage shield and Refreshing Path is just a ground-based heal over time. I know plenty of NB healers would prefer the berserk from Storm Atronach over the protection from Consuming Darkness.

I'm not really comparing the classes as a whole. My point is that picking at individual components of individual skills is the wrong way to look at balance. That approach can only lead to two situations. Either all of the classes become identical, or the devs completely give up on balance and everyone except Templar completely loses the ability to heal.

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

I want to comment differently on this

Yes we can say each class has it's own flavor and not each skill is equal to each other. Still lets talk about when healing in eso what matters in amount of group support class can offer. There's overall potential of support a class can offer. Now if we put list of all the skills each class has to offer to group skills we will see a problem.

Sorc is very lacking in amount of group utility. Even fact it's what makes it rarest tank in the game too. Also what causes it to be one of the 3 top dk classes in game, because hey if they don't dps then what can they do? So going back further this wasn't a problem because long long ago sorc had 3 bars. You could say they had room to put non class skills on to make up for this problem.

Now here we in the future. Sorc out of all the classes has the least about of group support options. What matters in ESO healing is group support too so this is the problem that I point out

Empowered Ward isn't balanced

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong

There's unbalance all over the place if you cherry pick individual components of individual skills. Maybe someone else is mad that Empowered Ward provides a huge damage shield and Refreshing Path is just a ground-based heal over time. I know plenty of NB healers would prefer the berserk from Storm Atronach over the protection from Consuming Darkness.

I'm not really comparing the classes as a whole. My point is that picking at individual components of individual skills is the wrong way to look at balance. That approach can only lead to two situations. Either all of the classes become identical, or the devs completely give up on balance and everyone except Templar completely loses the ability to heal.

I agree but pts is the time to mention when something isn't balanced. What harm would it be to give sorc minor edurance on empoward ward? At most it would make it more fair

We can say shield protects themselves and gives them support and heal over time as two different things. That's fair and something different of each class.

Now giving a skill 3 buffs plus a heal vs 1 buff plus a shield. That's not balanced

It's pts and it's time to say this isn't okay

FeedbackOnly

Empowered Ward isn't very empowering

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong

There's unbalance all over the place if you cherry pick individual components of individual skills. Maybe someone else is mad that Empowered Ward provides a huge damage shield and Refreshing Path is just a ground-based heal over time. I know plenty of NB healers would prefer the berserk from Storm Atronach over the protection from Consuming Darkness.

I'm not really comparing the classes as a whole. My point is that picking at individual components of individual skills is the wrong way to look at balance. That approach can only lead to two situations. Either all of the classes become identical, or the devs completely give up on balance and everyone except Templar completely loses the ability to heal.

I realized I forgot something

I am not looking at class as one skill. I am looking at the growing problem of warden healer class. Nobody doesn't know warden's arent' the absolute best standard healer class pve and pvp. We can agrue some niche styles, but overall they are the best.

I am pointing out that problem is growing worst these past 2 updates. 6 years ago we used to scream nerf sorc dps....why because they were too far the best dps class. While we never really balanced out tanking and healing. It's been a mess of changes and little things that get more unbalanced as nobody spoke up for them.

I am speaking now on this change this patch that effects the class of healers as whole. Wardens are getting too much. Dps can play any class in trials with viability. I want the same for healer classes or something better then this direction

* Lastly I came to say nightblades want major berserk? Guess what they get both minor and major new patch. While sorc only got minor


So I guess I got another point what this situation is more unbalanced. A small buff to empowarded ward is way more then fair.

the1andonlyskwex

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong

There's unbalance all over the place if you cherry pick individual components of individual skills. Maybe someone else is mad that Empowered Ward provides a huge damage shield and Refreshing Path is just a ground-based heal over time. I know plenty of NB healers would prefer the berserk from Storm Atronach over the protection from Consuming Darkness.

I'm not really comparing the classes as a whole. My point is that picking at individual components of individual skills is the wrong way to look at balance. That approach can only lead to two situations. Either all of the classes become identical, or the devs completely give up on balance and everyone except Templar completely loses the ability to heal.

I realized I forgot something

I am not looking at class as one skill. I am looking at the growing problem of warden healer class. Nobody doesn't know warden's arent' the absolute best standard healer class pve and pvp. We can agrue some niche styles, but overall they are the best.

I am pointing out that problem is growing worst these past 2 updates. 6 years ago we used to scream nerf sorc dps....why because they were too far the best dps class. While we never really balanced out tanking and healing. It's been a mess of changes and little things that get more unbalanced as nobody spoke up for them.

I am speaking now on this change this patch that effects the class of healers as whole. Wardens are getting too much. Dps can play any class in trials with viability. I want the same for healer classes or something better then this direction

* Lastly I came to say nightblades want major berserk? Guess what they get both minor and major new patch. While sorc only got minor


So I guess I got another point what this situation is more unbalanced. A small buff to empowarded ward is way more then fair.

NB berserk is self-only. Sorc berserk can be grabbed by a DPS. I brought it up specifically as a group support comparison.

Also, if your problem is with Wardens, maybe you should pick on them instead of Nightblades.

FeedbackOnly

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Whoosh...

Thank you for understanding how unbalanced the situation is. I hope for the best for dk healers, but that's a different discussion.

Still whoosh...

You can't just pick one ability from each class and scream "unbalanced!". Yes, NB and Warden both have abilities that provide both intellect and endurance. Sorc has an ability that provides one and not the other. Some classes can't provide either. Not every ability that provides intellect has to provide endurance to be balanced. Similarly, not every class needs a GBAoE heal to be balanced.

Are sorc healers relatively unpopular in trials? Sure, but they're not obviously the least popular, and adding endurance to Empowered Ward isn't suddenly going to change things anyway.

My claim is out of all the classes sorc has the least amount of group support? Can you say otherwise? The group support they do have is useable is very special situations ...like hrc garyoles.

Now then you compound this fact that warden is literally stole this group support to sell the class, but got the better version of it.

So sorc class as a healer has very far less then warden. Now even far less then nightblade. Nightblade skill has 3 buffs to group, and a heal on it?

So do tell me what's better 4 vs 1?

Again from a healer perspective this cutting it again and it's unbalanced

Prove me wrong

There's unbalance all over the place if you cherry pick individual components of individual skills. Maybe someone else is mad that Empowered Ward provides a huge damage shield and Refreshing Path is just a ground-based heal over time. I know plenty of NB healers would prefer the berserk from Storm Atronach over the protection from Consuming Darkness.

I'm not really comparing the classes as a whole. My point is that picking at individual components of individual skills is the wrong way to look at balance. That approach can only lead to two situations. Either all of the classes become identical, or the devs completely give up on balance and everyone except Templar completely loses the ability to heal.

I realized I forgot something

I am not looking at class as one skill. I am looking at the growing problem of warden healer class. Nobody doesn't know warden's arent' the absolute best standard healer class pve and pvp. We can agrue some niche styles, but overall they are the best.

I am pointing out that problem is growing worst these past 2 updates. 6 years ago we used to scream nerf sorc dps....why because they were too far the best dps class. While we never really balanced out tanking and healing. It's been a mess of changes and little things that get more unbalanced as nobody spoke up for them.

I am speaking now on this change this patch that effects the class of healers as whole. Wardens are getting too much. Dps can play any class in trials with viability. I want the same for healer classes or something better then this direction

* Lastly I came to say nightblades want major berserk? Guess what they get both minor and major new patch. While sorc only got minor


So I guess I got another point what this situation is more unbalanced. A small buff to empowarded ward is way more then fair.

NB berserk is self-only. Sorc berserk can be grabbed by a DPS. I brought it up specifically as a group support comparison.

Also, if your problem is with Wardens, maybe you should pick on them instead of Nightblades.

😝 Sorry nightblades

I do think they deserve their changes. My point is they forgot to balance it to sorc too.

Also counter argument nightblade group tools at least can support all allies while storm atro is just 1

Necro picking on time they got ally the allies they want with their atro.

Empowered ward buff is a Small ask in overall picture

master_vanargand

Nightblade healer is nightmare.

FeedbackOnly

master_vanargand wrote: »

Nightblade healer is nightmare.

?

FeedbackOnly

master_vanargand wrote: »

Nightblade healer is nightmare.

Why because they have high hopes and more group utility then any other class? There's no reason to use them over templar except that templar is easier to use.

Eira_Rosynhwyr

I don't have a NB healer. For that matter, I don't have a NB. I do not like NB.

That said, I'm happy with the state of Templar, Sorcere, and Warden healers.

WrathOfInnos

Minor Intellect is a difficult buff to obtain, and I'm glad we now have 3 viable ways to obtain it (and that Nightblade healer is now slightly better).

Minor Endurance does not share this exclusivity. Any class can give this buff, as well as Minor Protection and a decent HoT, with Ring of Preservation from the Fighter's Guild skill line. With MK healers becoming popular again this also serves as a stamina sink.

I'm not sure Warden and Nightblade even need a source of Minor Endurance, but it is always nice to have options.

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WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Minor Intellect is a difficult buff to obtain, and I'm glad we now have 3 viable ways to obtain it (and that Nightblade healer is now slightly better).

Minor Endurance does not share this exclusivity. Any class can give this buff, as well as Minor Protection and a decent HoT, with Ring of Preservation from the Fighter's Guild skill line. With MK healers becoming popular again this also serves as a stamina sink.

I'm not sure Warden and Nightblade even need a source of Minor Endurance, but it is always nice to have options.

It's nice to balance things too

FeedbackOnly

Another patch goes by while warden is at top