"Gifted Rider" shouldn't be a slottable.

CombatRecon11B

This game is way too darn big for Gifted Rider to be a slottable.

Instead, it should be a true passive once it's unlocked with cp.

There is hardly a reason why Gifted Rider shouldn't be a true passive, since it wouldn't contribute to a combat balancing issue.

The only reason I can think, outside of server stress, is pvp. I could see that having faster riders for certain roles in a zerg can play to a strategy, but I don't think this is a problem. Players would still have to spend the cp on it to use it.

Treeshka

Well green tree can easily be turned into fully passives but they specifically made a lot of slotted stars to reduce server strain when a character moves or do action.

But yes it would be very good to have that star turned into passive.

CombatRecon11B

Treeshka wrote: »

Well green tree can easily be turned into fully passives but they specifically made a lot of slotted stars to reduce server strain when a character moves or do action.

But yes it would be very good to have that star turned into passive.

Right. Though, this 1 green tree option just happens to be one that would potentially effect the game in a very big and positive way. Most of us aren't always farming nodes. We typically pick and choose what to farm and what to skip, because we have other things on our minds. But, all of us are always riding off in a hurry to get to the nearest wayshrine or objective.

perfiction

Treeshka wrote: »

Well green tree can easily be turned into fully passives but they specifically made a lot of slotted stars to reduce server strain when a character moves or do action.

But yes it would be very good to have that star turned into passive.

Yeah server strain, right. When you pick up a crafting node server has to check if you have plentiful harvest and master gatherer slotted. If they were passives, server would check if you have them unlocked. What's the difference from performance standpoint?
There are so many slottables to add another layer of annoying micromanagement into the game. I guess The Elder Inventory Management Online is not enough.

CombatRecon11B

perfiction wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

Well green tree can easily be turned into fully passives but they specifically made a lot of slotted stars to reduce server strain when a character moves or do action.

But yes it would be very good to have that star turned into passive.

Yeah server strain, right. When you pick up a crafting node server has to check if you have plentiful harvest and master gatherer slotted. If they were passives, server would check if you have them unlocked. What's the difference from performance standpoint?
There are so many slottables to add another layer of annoying micromanagement into the game. I guess The Elder Inventory Management Online is not enough.

Good point.

spartaxoxo

I think that stuff related speed should remain slottables, since they actually can affect outcomes of some things and also because people will want to turn them on and off depending on what they are doing.

Grizzbeorn

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

But, all of us are always riding off in a hurry

Not all of us.

MasterSpatula

Most of the green tree has no business being slottable.

Gaebriel0410

I don't think it has anything to do with servers but more like with gameplay.
There are so many speed increases already and I think at a certain point it gets Too fast.

I am already contemplating turning off the boost from the Alliance War skill line in my non-Cyrodiil setups, since while very convenient it is a little too fast for my liking. I think it is good that you at least have to consciously choose for the added speed instead of it being a passive, just like the faster movement speed (non mounted) you can also pick.

ADarklore

Well, I'm sure glad I play on PC and have "Jack of All Trades" which switches the green tree slottables for me automatically. When I hop on my mount, it slots Gifted Rider... if I stop to farm a node, it switches to the farming slottable. Decide I want to be stealthy, as soon as I crouch it switches to that slottable. You can pick and choose which of the four slots you want each placed, because you don't want Rationer being dropped and losing your food extension or Steed's Blessing. So I usually have slots one and two the 'rotational' slots and keep Steed's and Rationer in three and four.

The downside, it still has to obey the 30 second cooldown rule. So if you hop off your mount to farm a node and hop back on the mount before the 30 seconds passes... it won't slot Gifted Rider until after the cooldown.

Gundug

This is a star that costs 100 CP. I think anyone who is blowing off that many points on one boost is making a conscious decision about what they are doing. I have found it an unnecessary star for the most part, last I tried it, as characters who had earned Continuous Attack and had a 60 mount speed received only a very subtle speed increase. I would rather unlock two other stars for that cost. The only case where I can see this being useful is for the player who has very high Champion Points and a number of poorly trained riders, and who is unwilling to enter Cyrodiil for fifteen to twenty minutes, or run a couple battlegrounds, or wear Adept Rider.

ADarklore

Gundug wrote: »

This is a star that costs 100 CP. I think anyone who is blowing off that many points on one boost is making a conscious decision about what they are doing. I have found it an unnecessary star for the most part, last I tried it, as characters who had earned Continuous Attack and had a 60 mount speed received only a very subtle speed increase. I would rather unlock two other stars for that cost. The only case where I can see this being useful is for the player who has very high Champion Points and a number of poorly trained riders, and who is unwilling to enter Cyrodiil for fifteen to twenty minutes, or run a couple battlegrounds, or wear Adept Rider.

Honestly, I usually only slot it with new characters I'm leveling because I tend to run around all the zones unlocking wayshrines and skyshards... so it helps getting from place to place a bit faster. I do believe they probably have a cap on mount speed... so if you have your mount fully maxed on speed, have the Continuous Attack and then slot Gifted Rider, you're probably over cap then. Yet, there are probably many players who don't have speed maxed out, who may not know they have to go to Cyrodiil to unlock Continuous Attack (you can do the 'welcome to Cyrodiil' intro quest which should unlock the passive), so they would be most likely to find this passive extremely useful in getting around.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Gifted Rider isn't the only slottable that should be a passive. A third or more of them should be turned into passives.

CombatRecon11B

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think that stuff related speed should remain slottables, since they actually can affect outcomes of some things and also because people will want to turn them on and off depending on what they are doing.

You could still turn it off and on by adding/removing cp.

drsalvation

I don't think so.
What's your build and what do you think should be taking gifted rider's place?

Most of them can be switched anyway and we're not always mounted, so does it matter?
I think limiting the choices you can have is good, the best RPG perks always grant you a buff and a debuff, there are no debuffs in ESO, other than a 4-slot in CP.
Making it a passive is just OP at this point.

alberichtano

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

This game is way too darn big for Gifted Rider to be a slottable.

Instead, it should be a true passive once it's unlocked with cp.

There is hardly a reason why Gifted Rider shouldn't be a true passive, since it wouldn't contribute to a combat balancing issue.

The only reason I can think, outside of server stress, is pvp. I could see that having faster riders for certain roles in a zerg can play to a strategy, but I don't think this is a problem. Players would still have to spend the cp on it to use it.

I would agree if it hadn't been for PvP. Cyrodiil is very dependent on speed, both in and out of combat. Which is a pity, in both instances. Way too much "roadrunner"-tactics. Meep meep.

xaraan

Most of the green tree should be passive.

I'd leave the food and potion ones slottable, maybe some thieving ones and add some stuff to buff companions and make them more useful and those would be slottable. Everything else would be passive.

alberichtano

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gifted Rider isn't the only slottable that should be a passive. A third or more of them should be turned into passives.

Fishing and selling-bonuses could easily be made into passives. They do in no way change combat or give any other advantages, other than saving time or a bit of gold. If it has effectiveness in combat or larger play-style, like sneaking, speed, potion efficiency, sure, it should be an active "star". But fishing? Why? You gonna fish your enemies to death?

CombatRecon11B

drsalvation wrote: »

I don't think so.
What's your build and what do you think should be taking gifted rider's place?

Most of them can be switched anyway and we're not always mounted, so does it matter?
I think limiting the choices you can have is good, the best RPG perks always grant you a buff and a debuff, there are no debuffs in ESO, other than a 4-slot in CP.
Making it a passive is just OP at this point.

OP? Seriously? How does a faster mount make anything op? What are you talking about?

Most of them can be switched anyway? Ok...so switch it on the fly everytime you want to use it, like the other champion bar slottables, right? You know what you should do in that case... ignore it all together except for niche activities and throw it in the scrap heap of other mostly useless, unused skills.

To the others mentioning PVP:

The skill is already being used for flanking and other strategies, but you still have to place the prerequisite number of CP into it to activate it, so no... the (It would disrupt the balance) reason is flawed.

Northwold

The entire green tree is made up of things that should have been passive but needed to be slottable because otherwise it would look weird compared to the other two trees. I mean, "slot any four items to stop game mechanics that don't need to be crushingly tedious from being crushingly tedious" is pretty silly.

Arunei

drsalvation wrote: »

I don't think so.
What's your build and what do you think should be taking gifted rider's place?

Most of them can be switched anyway and we're not always mounted, so does it matter?
I think limiting the choices you can have is good, the best RPG perks always grant you a buff and a debuff, there are no debuffs in ESO, other than a 4-slot in CP.
Making it a passive is just OP at this point.

You're not always getting gold but Fortune's Favor, the CP that boosts all gold from chests and lockboxes, is passive. So is Gilded Fingers, which increases ALL gold earned.

You're not always sneaking but the Fleet Phantom CP, which reduces the speed penalty while Sneaking, is passive. So is Out of Sight, which reduces the detection radius of mobs.

You're not always crafting or deconning things, but the CP Inspiration Boost, which increases the amount of Inspiration you earn, is passive.

I can go on for all the passive CP. Not doing something all the time is literally the weakest argument to a CP being passive or not. It's tied with the tired "it makes your choices matter" response, too. Choices mean absolutely squat when you can change them at will aside from a 30 second cooldown and MAYBE needing to spend 3k on a respec to shuffle CP around to unlock different things, depending on how many total you have.

The simple fact is a majority of the Crafting Tree should be passives. The fact that you have to juggle so many for such a wide variety of activities makes it harder for people who do a majority of that content on one character.

And please don't give me "jUsT uSe OtHeR cHaRaCtErS" thing. Many people play only one character or a small number of them and don't have the characters to split activities between. Or maybe they're like me, who have a bunch of characters but only one that they do most of our content on because that's just how we prefer to play.

kargen27

I like that these things need to be slotted. We need more times when the choices we make matter instead of number of total points deciding how good/fast/strong we are.

drsalvation

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

I don't think so.
What's your build and what do you think should be taking gifted rider's place?

Most of them can be switched anyway and we're not always mounted, so does it matter?
I think limiting the choices you can have is good, the best RPG perks always grant you a buff and a debuff, there are no debuffs in ESO, other than a 4-slot in CP.
Making it a passive is just OP at this point.

OP? Seriously? How does a faster mount make anything op? What are you talking about?

Most of them can be switched anyway? Ok...so switch it on the fly everytime you want to use it, like the other champion bar slottables, right? You know what you should do in that case... ignore it all together except for niche activities and throw it in the scrap heap of other mostly useless, unused skills.

To the others mentioning PVP:

The skill is already being used for flanking and other strategies, but you still have to place the prerequisite number of CP into it to activate it, so no... the (It would disrupt the balance) reason is flawed.

It's OP because you can completely avoid all combat in PvE zones, especially when paired with shadow rider.
There's already a passive perk from assault which gives you 30% mount speed, and it's free, it's not even a CP slot.

Again, that's why I'm asking what's your build that requires you to switch out gifted rider?
If you're crafting, you're not riding
If you're farming, you're not riding either
If you're robbing, you're not riding.

There's not a lot of active perks you actually need from that tree, so I'm curious why do people think gifted rider should be a passive? What builds do they have where they desperately need to take its place at all times?

I mean, the blue tree is simple:
Perks that buff your defense, perks that buff your attacks, perks that buff your healing, perks that buff your critical.
Red tree:
Perks that improve your blocking, perks that improve your crowd control, perks that improve your overall sustain
Green tree:
Perks that improve your riding skills, perks that improve your criminal skills, perks that improve your crafting skills, perks that improve consumable skills.

Asking for free speed is the equivalent of making the defense skills from blue tree be free as well. And again, I don't see many builds where it's necessary to have all 4 perks up and having to sacrifice gifted rider for some reason.

Arunei

kargen27 wrote: »

I like that these things need to be slotted. We need more times when the choices we make matter instead of number of total points deciding how good/fast/strong we are.

Why do people keep saying "choices matter" when you can literally swap your CP whenever you want, barring the 30-second cooldown? How do choices matter when you can change them on the fly? They don't, they just become an inconvenience when you have to stop every few minutes to swap things around that shouldn't need swapping.

Things related to combat should need to be slotted, and things that can make combat easier. The CP for extending Food/Drink buffs, the CP for potentially not using a potion, the CP for Sneaking faster or using less Stamina to sneak or reducing the radius you can be detected, sure, those all make sense as slottables. But ones like Reel Technique and Meticulous Disassembly? There's no reason those should be slottables. Here's a convenient list.

All Green Tree CP

Angler's Instinct | Slotted
Increases your chance of catching higher quality fish, akin to fishing with another player. This effect can stack with other similar bonuses.

Breakfall | Passive
Reduces your fall damage taken by 7% per stage. Maximum: 35%

Cutpurse's Art | Slotted
Increases the chance to get higher-quality loot when pickpocketing.

Fade Away | Slotted
Escaping from a Guard wipes 25% of your current Heat, but not Bounty.

Fleet Phantom | Passive
Reduces the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak by 5% per stage. Maximum: 25%

Fortune's Favor | Passive
Increases the amount of gold you find in treasure chests and safeboxes by 10% per stage. Maximum: 50%

Friends In Low Places | Slotted
Removes 1000 gold from your bounty once per day when committing a crime where bounty is added. You must be level 50 for this passive to activate, and your current bounty must be at or greater than 1000 gold.

Gifted Rider | Slotted
Increases your Mount Speed by 2% per stage. Maximum: 10%

Gilded Fingers | Passive
Increases your gold gained by 2% per stage. Maximum: 10%

Homemaker | Slotted
You have a 10% chance to find a second furnishing plan whenever you find a furnishing plan in the world.

Infamous | Slotted
Increases the value of fenced items by 25%.

Inspiration Boost | Passive
Increases your crafting inspiration gained by 10% per stage. Maximum: 30%

Liquid Efficiency | Slotted
Whenever you use a potion or poison you have a 10% chance to not consume it.

Master Gatherer | Slotted
Reduces the time it takes to harvest by 10% per stage. Maximum: 50%

Meticulous Disassembly | Slotted
Improves the chances of extracting Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Jewelry Crafting ingredients and allows the refining of more powerful resins, tempers, tannins, and platings from raw materials.

Out Of Sight | Passive
Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 1 meter per stage. Maximum: 3 meters

Plentiful Harvest | Slotted
You have a 10% chance to gain double the yield from normal resource nodes per stage. Maximum: 50%

Professional Upkeep | Slotted
Reduces the cost of repairing your armor by 1% per stage. Maximum: 50%

Rationer | Slotted
Adds 10 minutes to the duration of any food or drink that increases your character's stats per stage. Maximum: 30 minutes

Reel Technique | Slotted
Decreases the time it takes for a fish to bite by 25%.

Shadow Strike | Slotted
When you kill an enemy with Blade of Woe, you become invisible for 5 seconds after a short delay while distracting nearby enemies or potential witnesses. While under this effect you can cast Blade of Woe.

Soul Reservoir | Passive
When you resurrect yourself or another player you have a 33% chance to not consume a Soul Gem.

Steadfast Enchantment | Passive
Your Weapon Enchantments have a 10% chance to not consume a charge when activated per stage. Maximum: 50%

Steed's Blessing | Slotted
Increases your out of combat Movement Speed by .4% per stage. Maximum: 20%

Sustaining Shadows | Slotted
Reduces the cost of Sneak by 1% per stage. Maximum: 50%

Treasure Hunter | Slotted
Increase the quality of items you find in treasure chests.

Wanderer | Passive
Reduces the cost of Wayshrine usage by 10% per stage.

War Mount | Slotted
Improves your mastery with mounts, removing all mount Stamina costs outside of combat.

There are 19 active CP for the Crafting Tree and 9 passive ones. Most of those active ones have no business being slotted, and some of them don't even follow the logic of being combat-related. Steadfast Enchantment is passive but helps prevent using charges, which you only use during combat. Out of Sight reduces the radius you can be detected at, and from the sound of it doesn't just apply to mobs. Thus it could be a combat-related CP. Steed's Blessing and War Mount require you to be out of combat to even work and Steed's Blessing only works when you're unmounted.

So if CP that should be counted as combat-related and thus active aren't, I don't see why Gifted Rider has to be considered combat-related when most will be riding more for PvE than PvP.

drsalvation

But Cyrodiil IS mostly riding in PvP.
And I somewhat agree, maybe being allowed to switch perks isn't the best idea and should be locked once set and pay to unlock them (say 1k gold to unlock). THEN choice will be more significant, and gifted rider would remain an active perk and not a passive.

I think if we want a compromise, you can make gifted rider passive, but make break fall, steadfast enchantment and inspiration boost slotted perks.

kargen27

Arunei wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like that these things need to be slotted. We need more times when the choices we make matter instead of number of total points deciding how good/fast/strong we are.

Why do people keep saying "choices matter" when you can literally swap your CP whenever you want, barring the 30-second cooldown? How do choices matter when you can change them on the fly? They don't, they just become an inconvenience when you have to stop every few minutes to swap things around that shouldn't need swapping.

Because you have to make the choice and take the time to swap. If it is so trivial to switch then what is the problem with skills needing to be slotted?

amapola76

Northwold wrote: »

The entire green tree is made up of things that should have been passive but needed to be slottable because otherwise it would look weird compared to the other two trees.

That has always been my theory. "The art department made a cool thing! So now we have to cram our functionality into their cool design, no matter how awkward or illogical the fit!"

spartaxoxo

The way I see it, stuff that gives you a competitive advantage or affects actual gameplay should be slottable. This means all the speed passives, the ones that let your enchanting run out slower, that passive that turns you invisible after a blade of woe kill, etc.

The stuff that just increases quality of items you receive or gathering speed should be passives. Because they don't have much impact on gameplay nor impact other players in any meaningful way.

CombatRecon11B

drsalvation wrote: »

Asking for free speed is the equivalent of making the defense skills from blue tree be free as well.

Uh no....

Asking for more mount speed is most certaintly not the same as making defense (combat specific) skills free. Blue and Red skills are combat related, meaning they are balance related. That is totally not the same as Green skills, as most people seem to understand.

Now I don't know how you think this when multiple people have requested the entire Green Tree be made passives only, and all I asked for was one skill (Gifted Rider) be made a passive.

But, for the record, if we can obtain it, the entire Green Tree should be made passive.

katanagirl1

Having Gifted Rider slotted is great, I use it in Cyrodiil on my toons because of the long distances that get traveled a lot. It’s also nice to have that stamina bar off the HUD.

Although it would be nice to have that on my PvE toons, I would much rather have the passive that allows me to harvest resources faster be a passive instead of a slottable. I mean, come on...that causes such strain on game calculations?

I use Continuous Assault passive for mount speed in PvE and it works well for speed but does not remove the stamina cost. Before you say that you have to go to Cyrodiil to get it, you can unlock it with nothing but the siege tutorial.

EDIT: clarification

Arunei

kargen27 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like that these things need to be slotted. We need more times when the choices we make matter instead of number of total points deciding how good/fast/strong we are.

Why do people keep saying "choices matter" when you can literally swap your CP whenever you want, barring the 30-second cooldown? How do choices matter when you can change them on the fly? They don't, they just become an inconvenience when you have to stop every few minutes to swap things around that shouldn't need swapping.

Because you have to make the choice and take the time to swap. If it is so trivial to switch then what is the problem with skills needing to be slotted?

Because of the cooldown, which makes it tedious to swap between the numerous slottables when you're out in the world. I have a circuit I run in Craglorn for farming mats and chests, so I generally have Gifted Rider, Steed's Blessing, Plentiful Harvest, Master Gatherer, and Treaure Hunter that I need to swap in and out.

Some of the nodes are very close together, which makes running to them easier than mounting and dismounting, so I keep both speed CP. Plentiful Harvest can get extra mats so that stays. So then I have to constantly swap out Treasure Hunter and Master Gatherer, and the choice is therefore slowing down what I do and making it less fun. Then I need to remember to swap one of those out to Meticulous Disassembly when it's time to decon everything, and then I have to remember to swap whichever I changed.back to what it was afterward.

And I also do stealing on this same character, so now I have swap Gifted Rider and Master Gatherer out for things like Fleet Phantom, Cutpurse's Art, or Fade Away. I farm lockboxes in Dhalmora and there are a bunch of mats that spawn there so I keep Plentiful, Master Gatherer, and Treasure Hunter, and Steed's Blessing helps move around faster. I have to remember at some point to slot Friends in Low Places, which only works once every 24 hours. Why the heck is a one-time per day CP an active one? And I also at the end of it all have to remember to swap something out to Infamous when it's time to sell things.

None of those choices "matter", they're just things that make me have to repeatedly stop and switch things over and over and over. It's frustrating and annoying, not meaningful in any way. You can't claim a choice matters in the slightest when it can be changed at will, but being able to be changed at will also doesn't mean something is trivial when you're wasting time doing it over and over to get any use out of what you've unlocked.