Can we get a crumb of class balance?

VarisVaris

PvP this patch is an actual joke, between terrible hybridization changes there are only 2 (3 when being generous) specs that exist right now and that's magdk and magplar both ignoring any form of defense while being virtually invincible.

Both of those specs have been powercreeped so much over the past year that there is no reason to ever fight against either of those specs unless you are using it yourself.

I can't remember when balance has been this bad and to make matters worse there are even more things in line that will take their spot once those two specs have received necessary nerfs.

Also do not forget to delete radiating regen from the game.

DMuehlhausen

The second they made it so all gear is beneficial regardless of primary stat they admitted they can't balance the classes.

It's same thing that happened with WoW to a point. They were always trying to balance Paladin and Shaman and couldn't get it to work so they just said F canon both sides can have Shaman and Paladin now.

the problem is ZoS made the same mistake every single MMO developer has before and will for the remainder of the genre cause they are to arrogant to admit with something can't be done.

They all try to balance PvE and PvP, and it's mathematically impossible. Unless you make gear and skills that can only be used in PvP and or PvE.

All the skills and gear items in a PvE based game with PvP just tacked on for 5% of the population can never be balanced with those skills and gear pieces are designed around killing enemies with millions or billions of health, then are suppose to be used against other players with 10s of thousands of health. It just isn't possible. It never has and never will be.

And ZoS is now doing what all the other companies have done. They are basically making all classes feel the same essentially because they know at this point they can't make them feel unique.

barney2525

Class Balance? You want Class Balance? Shirley, you jest.

VarisVaris

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The second they made it so all gear is beneficial regardless of primary stat they admitted they can't balance the classes.

It's same thing that happened with WoW to a point. They were always trying to balance Paladin and Shaman and couldn't get it to work so they just said F canon both sides can have Shaman and Paladin now.

the problem is ZoS made the same mistake every single MMO developer has before and will for the remainder of the genre cause they are to arrogant to admit with something can't be done.

They all try to balance PvE and PvP, and it's mathematically impossible. Unless you make gear and skills that can only be used in PvP and or PvE.

All the skills and gear items in a PvE based game with PvP just tacked on for 5% of the population can never be balanced with those skills and gear pieces are designed around killing enemies with millions or billions of health, then are suppose to be used against other players with 10s of thousands of health. It just isn't possible. It never has and never will be.

And ZoS is now doing what all the other companies have done. They are basically making all classes feel the same essentially because they know at this point they can't make them feel unique.

You are letting the devs get away way too easily.

Those two specs have received buffs that only affect PvE very slightly while being extremely overtuned in pvp.

One example being the recent Buff to piercing javalin, no fight in PvE involves relevant enemies blocking.
Or embers becoming a hot, corrosive affecting spell resistance, power lash having no cooldown.

Or take living darkness for example, that skill is ridiculously overperforming in PvP yet no one would really use it in Trials.


The requirements for skills in PvE and PvP are so vastly different that classes can be balanced and still be fun in both worlds, the devs just need to have an actual idea of how to do so.

Of course there are changes that affect both sides like the hybridization changes or the armor changes some time ago, but those things can be kept in check by tackling other things.

deleted221205-002626

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The second they made it so all gear is beneficial regardless of primary stat they admitted they can't balance the classes.

It's same thing that happened with WoW to a point. They were always trying to balance Paladin and Shaman and couldn't get it to work so they just said F canon both sides can have Shaman and Paladin now.

the problem is ZoS made the same mistake every single MMO developer has before and will for the remainder of the genre cause they are to arrogant to admit with something can't be done.

They all try to balance PvE and PvP, and it's mathematically impossible. Unless you make gear and skills that can only be used in PvP and or PvE.

All the skills and gear items in a PvE based game with PvP just tacked on for 5% of the population can never be balanced with those skills and gear pieces are designed around killing enemies with millions or billions of health, then are suppose to be used against other players with 10s of thousands of health. It just isn't possible. It never has and never will be.

And ZoS is now doing what all the other companies have done. They are basically making all classes feel the same essentially because they know at this point they can't make them feel unique.

I wish they would remove the complexy of "this works in pve but not pvp" and "this works in pvp but not pve" crap... Just make everything work as intended, including stats healing and damage in pvp and adjust mobs, bosses, players etc to account for this. like if they prefer the half damage etc in pvp then make that the standard and adjust mobs to be inline with that. no sense making everything so different everywhere. then when something needs a tweak its simple not rocket science trying to figure out the affect in 15 different scenarios

DMuehlhausen

sinnereso wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The second they made it so all gear is beneficial regardless of primary stat they admitted they can't balance the classes.

It's same thing that happened with WoW to a point. They were always trying to balance Paladin and Shaman and couldn't get it to work so they just said F canon both sides can have Shaman and Paladin now.

the problem is ZoS made the same mistake every single MMO developer has before and will for the remainder of the genre cause they are to arrogant to admit with something can't be done.

They all try to balance PvE and PvP, and it's mathematically impossible. Unless you make gear and skills that can only be used in PvP and or PvE.

All the skills and gear items in a PvE based game with PvP just tacked on for 5% of the population can never be balanced with those skills and gear pieces are designed around killing enemies with millions or billions of health, then are suppose to be used against other players with 10s of thousands of health. It just isn't possible. It never has and never will be.

And ZoS is now doing what all the other companies have done. They are basically making all classes feel the same essentially because they know at this point they can't make them feel unique.

I wish they would remove the complexy of "this works in pve but not pvp" and "this works in pvp but not pve" crap... Just make everything work as intended, including stats healing and damage in pvp and adjust mobs, bosses, players etc to account for this. like if they prefer the half damage etc in pvp then make that the standard and adjust mobs to be inline with that. no sense making everything so different everywhere. then when something needs a tweak its simple not rocket science trying to figure out the affect in 15 different scenarios

That's what they try to do. They try to get things to adjust when it's in a PvP zone and it never works. Cause then they make a PvP change and it breaks PvE so the nerf it, or try to bring everything else up to match. Which then breaks something else and the cycle continues.

Treating them as two games is the only way to balance it.

deleted221205-002626

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

sinnereso wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The second they made it so all gear is beneficial regardless of primary stat they admitted they can't balance the classes.

It's same thing that happened with WoW to a point. They were always trying to balance Paladin and Shaman and couldn't get it to work so they just said F canon both sides can have Shaman and Paladin now.

the problem is ZoS made the same mistake every single MMO developer has before and will for the remainder of the genre cause they are to arrogant to admit with something can't be done.

They all try to balance PvE and PvP, and it's mathematically impossible. Unless you make gear and skills that can only be used in PvP and or PvE.

All the skills and gear items in a PvE based game with PvP just tacked on for 5% of the population can never be balanced with those skills and gear pieces are designed around killing enemies with millions or billions of health, then are suppose to be used against other players with 10s of thousands of health. It just isn't possible. It never has and never will be.

And ZoS is now doing what all the other companies have done. They are basically making all classes feel the same essentially because they know at this point they can't make them feel unique.

I wish they would remove the complexy of "this works in pve but not pvp" and "this works in pvp but not pve" crap... Just make everything work as intended, including stats healing and damage in pvp and adjust mobs, bosses, players etc to account for this. like if they prefer the half damage etc in pvp then make that the standard and adjust mobs to be inline with that. no sense making everything so different everywhere. then when something needs a tweak its simple not rocket science trying to figure out the affect in 15 different scenarios

That's what they try to do. They try to get things to adjust when it's in a PvP zone and it never works. Cause then they make a PvP change and it breaks PvE so the nerf it, or try to bring everything else up to match. Which then breaks something else and the cycle continues.

Treating them as two games is the only way to balance it.

i disagree... they should adjust the encounter not the player sepperatly for each different encounter.

Then whens something off like " too much dmg" they can compare.. is it too much pvp or pve or both? if its both they can tweak the damage.. if its just pve they can tweak the encounter

Lumenn

Class balance has been a 4 letter word as long as I can remember 20+ years ago (I first heard it in EQ when kunark came out and they gave warrior defense to hybrids, who already had more offense. Makes sense right?) Trying to balance the same gear/skills etc for trials, dungeons, pvp, pve, overland while maintaining balance isn't going to work. Add in the forum warriors that want x nerfed because they don't want to use counters or they were killed and I'd honestly not be surprised if the devs clocked in, wrote their code and clocked out never to look in the forums. The only game that has "class balance" are those without classes. But even in those "skills" and "gear" are always OP and need nerfed.

Unfortunately ESO prizes DPS over all. Tanks/healers are barely needed so best tank/healer isn't that important (trials, vet dlc dungeons? That's it yes?) I will say ESO does a decent job rotating the classes around. Mag dk are good now. I remember when they were horrible. Same for temps. Sorc and night blade ruled all for a time. Necro and warden, while still strong, aren't on top anymore. It's just the cycle and dk/temps time to shine awhile. It'll role back around sometime.

Dexter411

What classes? Now you have same sets for EVERYONE and only thing that is different between "classes" is what kind of flavor your 3 out of 12 skills you want to have.


Hybridization is a joke, half baked system that will only create more problems as they seem to forget about couple of things: weapon and spell damage glyphs need to go, weapon and spell power pots need to go away, and I wonder what sort of joke they will make out of it as they can not slap "power potions" name on it and call it a day