Knight of the Circle motif speculative market (PC EU)

TiberX

As I play PVP I kept gathering proofs and got some Knight of the Circle motif and immediately sold it shocked by the price it had, specially the chest and shield.
After a while I thought that maybe I should learn it because it looks awesome and started watching the price on TTC website.
Guess what: the chest is 9999999gold mostly but none cheaper then 9 mil !!!The kept coming up with 3 or 4 mil and immediately disappeared being resold by the same guys wit 99999999.
So the situation now is that a few guys are buying up all rare drops like chest and shield and putting them back on the market right away with aforementioned price.
I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.
Should something be done about this? Like not being able to resell something u bought for 30 days for example?
Any ideas? @ZoS?

Making hold seems endgame to some and inflation is going wild on PC EU at least.

Treeshka

Well market manipulation always happens but they can make items tradeable certain times. So lets say you can only trade style pages once. So lets say i listed a style page from a bit low price to get rid of it fast. Someone thinks to buy it so they can resell it at an expensive price. But if they make the item tradable only once, they can not do this.

SkaraMinoc

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

tsaescishoeshiner

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Edit: Disregard!! I got this style page set mixed up with Silver Rose. Brain farp.

EF321

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Ilsabet

The Knight of the Circle style pages aren't new. They've been around for a few years. In fact the most likely reason that the price has gone way up from when they were first out is that there are probably fewer people throwing their Cyrodiil proofs at them, since it's been a while since they were the new hotness. (Ironically that makes it more worthwhile for pvpers to throw their proofs at them, but I'm not sure how many people realize that.)

They're also quite annoying to farm, given the one-per-day time limitations and the fact that the Conquest Board dailies are among the more involved Cyro dailies to do, so they were never going to be cheap.

All that said, with items as sparse as these it's entirely possible that one person or a few people are buying up everything that comes on the market and listing it at inflated prices, but if people refuse to pay that much then the speculator(s) will have to lower their expectations. It could also be the case that the higher price is more in line with current supply and demand, so people who find listings at lower prices are hoping to make a profit by matching current market trends.

tsaescishoeshiner

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Lol I got it mixed up with Silver Rose. Silly me!!

Point stands that they'll probably lose out on money unless those 9 mil pages sell.

Jaraal

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

virtus753

Jaraal wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

The new PvP thing is an outfit style, not a motif, which means that it being character bound is functionally irrelevant.

Jaraal

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

The new PvP thing is an outfit style, not a motif, which means that it being character bound is functionally irrelevant.

ZOS was specific in their announcement that it was per character. They didn’t expound on it further.

kargen27

TiberX wrote: »

As I play PVP I kept gathering proofs and got some Knight of the Circle motif and immediately sold it shocked by the price it had, specially the chest and shield.
After a while I thought that maybe I should learn it because it looks awesome and started watching the price on TTC website.
Guess what: the chest is 9999999gold mostly but none cheaper then 9 mil !!!The kept coming up with 3 or 4 mil and immediately disappeared being resold by the same guys wit 99999999.
So the situation now is that a few guys are buying up all rare drops like chest and shield and putting them back on the market right away with aforementioned price.
I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.
Should something be done about this? Like not being able to resell something u bought for 30 days for example?
Any ideas? @ZoS?

Making hold seems endgame to some and inflation is going wild on PC EU at least.

No ZoS shouldn't do anything about this. The original seller got the price they asked and if a 2nd buyer purchases the item they will get it at a price they agree to.
I know what recipes and motifs some of my friends are looking for. If I stumble on one in the store I grab it for them. Not being able to resell or making them bound on sale takes this away. There is no need to limit resale of items. Sometimes I buy a motif I already own because I don't always pay attention. I would hate to be stuck with that motif.

LonePirate

And here I am with a few of these Gladiator rproofs sitting in my inventory on PC NA and PC EU. I guess it's time for me to buy some of these and earn some gold if they are selling for outrageous prices.

Amottica

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

I think it is important to note that many "sellers" do not actually sell. Just because someone lists something for a certain price does not mean it is actually selling for that price. This happens often with rarer items. People hope big.

virtus753

Jaraal wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

The new PvP thing is an outfit style, not a motif, which means that it being character bound is functionally irrelevant.

ZOS was specific in their announcement that it was per character. They didn’t expound on it further.

They were also specific that it was an outfit style. Therefore it applies to your whole account when you use it. Just like Battleground style pages.

Jaraal

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

The new PvP thing is an outfit style, not a motif, which means that it being character bound is functionally irrelevant.

ZOS was specific in their announcement that it was per character. They didn’t expound on it further.

They were also specific that it was an outfit style. Therefore it applies to your whole account when you use it. Just like Battleground style pages.

Well, maybe they need to remove “character bound” from the preview, then.

Additionally, we are giving you and your fellow PvP lovers an opportunity to show off your dedication to your deadly craft via a new armor style: the Dragonguard Berserker Armor. You can acquire style pages for this new look by reaching Alliance/PvP Rank 20 and trading in your Tel Var Stones to the Tel Var merchants located in the Imperial City Sewers. The Dragonguard Berserker styles will be bound to your character, so the only way to acquire this impressive armor is to earn it through battle.

Rasande_Robin

I don't think Zenimax should be involved in the market of asking/listing prices in any way. The only focus they should have is to remove gold from the market to reduce inflation.

There are still listing fee's if no one is buying his stuff. So if he's asking for to much he will lose.

LesserCircle

I think your proposed solution is a good idea OP, I would reduce it to 7 days or 14 days tho.

Dagoth_Rac

Jaraal wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

It's not "rare" as in a low drop rate, it's just brand new.

There will be more on the market quickly, and it sounds like the price pumpers are the ones losing out, and just for a laugh. The real winners are the people they're buying these motifs from for millions.

Uh? It takes 20 days just to roll RNG coffer once.

Yeah it would be one thing if you could buy the page you wanted for a certain amount of proofs. Blame ZOS for adding the unnecessary RNG component. You can buy guaranteed stuff with proofs that sell for multiple millions, so the high price for certain pages is not surprising.

It’s interesting that the new PvP motifs are bind on pickup, and character specific, not account wide. Plus you must be Alliance rank 20 or higher to purchase them.

The new PvP thing is an outfit style, not a motif, which means that it being character bound is functionally irrelevant.

ZOS was specific in their announcement that it was per character. They didn’t expound on it further.

They were also specific that it was an outfit style. Therefore it applies to your whole account when you use it. Just like Battleground style pages.

Well, maybe they need to remove “character bound” from the preview, then.

Additionally, we are giving you and your fellow PvP lovers an opportunity to show off your dedication to your deadly craft via a new armor style: the Dragonguard Berserker Armor. You can acquire style pages for this new look by reaching Alliance/PvP Rank 20 and trading in your Tel Var Stones to the Tel Var merchants located in the Imperial City Sewers. The Dragonguard Berserker styles will be bound to your character, so the only way to acquire this impressive armor is to earn it through battle.

The outfit page itself is character bound, so you can't trade or sell it to another player. But once you read the outfit page, the knowledge is available to all your characters. I think event outfit pages purchased from the Impresario work in a similar way. I suppose that changing "style" to "style page item drop" might make this clearer. But the item itself is indeed character bound so they do have to include that wording in some way. It is the knowledge gained from reading the item that is account-wide.

luen79rwb17_ESO

This style is a real pain to get you see: have to do PVP related stuff (eww), dropped token has a 20hr cool down (yikes), it's a very long grind with a cost of 50 tokens (ugh), large lootable and RNG based (lol).

Its high cost is more than justified and it's not speculation, it's the sheer scarcity of the items since almost nobody is ready to bear all that process. If I was to get a duplicate you can bet I'd ask for a really high price for a 50+ day grind.

Northwold

I did a thread on this a while back if you want an idea of where the balance of opinion (on this forum, at least, which is highly self-selecting given the hoops you have to go through to register) came out:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597606/restoring-price-competition-ban-resale-of-goods-for-30-days/p1

Frankly, I felt the defenders of the status quo on the whole were raising wholly self-serving arguments, points that "the system can't do X because that is how the system is right now" (rather than considering different ways the system could be in order to implement it), or taking refuge in a fictional world in which things like Tamriel Trade Centre do not exist that I did not find at all convincing. I also don't have much time for "I've been playing ESO since the Jurassic Period I've earnt it" reasoning. But it is what it is.

TiberX

Northwold wrote: »

I did a thread on this a while back if you want an idea of where the balance of opinion (on this forum, at least, which is highly self-selecting given the hoops you have to go through to register) came out:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597606/restoring-price-competition-ban-resale-of-goods-for-30-days/p1

Frankly, I felt the defenders of the status quo on the whole were raising wholly self-serving arguments, points that "the system can't do X because that is how the system is right now" (rather than considering different ways the system could be in order to implement it), or taking refuge in a fictional world in which things like Tamriel Trade Centre do not exist that I did not find at all convincing. I also don't have much time for "I've been playing ESO since the Jurassic Period I've earnt it" reasoning. But it is what it is.

UH yeah, u are right, we kinda had the same thoughts.

TiberX

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This style is a real pain to get you see: have to do PVP related stuff (eww), dropped token has a 20hr cool down (yikes), it's a very long grind with a cost of 50 tokens (ugh), large lootable and RNG based (lol).

Its high cost is more than justified and it's not speculation, it's the sheer scarcity of the items since almost nobody is ready to bear all that process. If I was to get a duplicate you can bet I'd ask for a really high price for a 50+ day grind.

First of all I wasn't talking about the price itself, or complaining. Its about the fact that people who do PVP as myself sell them at a certain price, even if its 10 mil its OK, but a handful of people buy them of ASAP ands resale them at 3 times the price.

Always the same name, no matter how many come up, them make a monopoly and just buy them all.
And second thing the chest costs 20 proofs and not 50 and its just like any other body piece which u can find for about 1 mil. They make monopoly only for certain pages as all would require much more gold.

And third i was adding in the original post that its repeated for other motifs too, so its a common practice and pushes prices up. its only harder to exemplify because other motifs are harder to track because they are much more common.

TiberX

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

I noticed the same maneuver with some other rare drops, all pushing the price to insane numbers artificially.

There's nothing artificial about that. Sellers determine the asking price based on the amount that buyers are willing to pay. It's very conceivable that the outfit style you're looking for is rare enough to sell for 10m gold. 4m gold may be a bargain.

Agree if the seller would not be the same resellers. ALWAYS

James-Wayne

If ZOS decreases grind rate this will change, only way to change it in fact