The amount of players is decreasing (PC/EU)

YantiParazi

Since the last expansion reveal, I'm feeling there are less active players. As a 2 year player and a successful guild master, it seems this year's expansion was so unsatisfied that a lot of players don't have a reason to continue playing.
3 months ago, my guild ran trials and event we prepared as a guild (as a social guild and not a trial guild). Nowadays, it's bery difficult to find 12 players for a single trial. The overall amount of players in the guild didn't change, but the chat and discord has been dead silent and there are less online players per day.

Since i started playing Eso in 2020 I enjoy everything the game has to offer. From housing, antiquities, I've tanked all vTrials as OT and MT, PvP and even enjoy fishing. I don't wa t this game to die because of the disconnection of Zenimax to the ga.e and what is lacking in the game. As a MMO this game has so much potential to grow and overcome other games.

Why not make housing actually usefull with mini games or movable platforms (just ideas i had while i wrote this)?
Why not add more PvP options, like group vs group in defending+attacking a keep, official 1v1 arena with ranks that aren't just hold by private guilds, group vs group only ranged siege weapons?
Why not useful quest rewards? I enjoy quests only because of the lore. No challenge and the rewards just bum me each time I complete a quest.

These are just some of my thoughts. I don't want Eso to die and i really hope Zenimax and the developers will make some major changes in the game. They talked about better communications with the community. This is the time for that communication, otherwise everyone will lose.

What are your thoughts? Do you guys feel the same as me or I'm wrong and the game is doing very well these days?

Northwold

Isn't there a natural cycle of chapter comes out, players surge, lull, DLC comes out, players surge, lull? Why would you expect players to increase based on the *announcement* of a new chapter? There's not new content yet.

YantiParazi

True, there is a natural cycle. But from looking at a number of different websites which shows the number of active players per month, it seems that there are much less players before this expansion compared to previews expansions. The game should have a small grow each year. This year the number of players is going down back to what it was in 2020

Northwold

YantiParazi wrote: »

True, there is a natural cycle. But from looking at a number of different websites which shows the number of active players per month, it seems that there are much less players before this expansion compared to previews expansions. The game should have a small grow each year. This year the number of players is going down back to what it was in 2020

All other points aside, most of the world was trapped at home for a large part of the last two years. Basically, I'm not sure what you can read into player numbers, if anything, at this particular point.

rauyran

What platform are you on? The number of players on PC+steam seems very level over the past 3 years according to steamdb. https://steamdb.info/app/306130/graphs/

Grandchamp1989

Hmmm not sure if its just me but I believe I start to see something similar to OP.

-Craglorn gets populated later and seems with less LFG? Closer to primetime..
-Cyro Also getting fully populated later and later
-Vet dungeons i rarely see experienced players anymore mostly cp 100-400 trying it out.

Of course I have no data just seems to be my observations aswell.. maybe the new content Will bring more people back in if some left?

Sarannah

ESO still seems to grow, but there are less and less players playing between events. Personally I have noticed myself doing this as well, due to eventfatigue. Also, too many daily tasks will make a game feel like a chore for many players. (Note: At the moment the EU servers are much more empty, as russia has disconnected from the main internet. Only those using a VPN can still access ESO. And due to the war, Ukranians also aren't playing at the moment. Not sure how much of the playerbase those two groups account for though.)
But overall, the population was/is growing. Which it should, as ESO is a fantastic and huge game. The fact that ZOS still releases as much, if not more, content as they have done in the past also means ESO is doing quite well.

Personally I would like to see housing made more accessible, where we can check out other player's houses from a townboard or something. After players allow their house to become public.
For PvP, I would like to see this made more accessible for PvE players. Due to the massive increase in difficulty at once, less and less players play PvP. And it makes PvP not enjoyable for those who are not top tier PvPers. Not sure how ZOS should go about doing this, as most ideas to draw in more PvE players are disliked by the PvP community.

The game could do much better though, the server/database issues are really pulling the game down at the moment. There is so much ZOS wants to do with the game, and there is so much players have asked for, which is simply not possible due to the database/server issues.

Personally I am optimistic, and hope the game will keep improving.

Edit: Forgot to mention the Corona crisis is basically over(for now) and lockdowns/restrictions have been lifted from practically all countries, which means players are going back to work and are able to go outside more. Also resulting in a lower player count.

Charon_on_Vacation

Northwold wrote: »

Isn't there a natural cycle of chapter comes out, players surge, lull, DLC comes out, players surge, lull? Why would you expect players to increase based on the *announcement* of a new chapter? There's not new content yet.

usually, at this time of the year or this "stage" of the content cycle, you do have an upwards trend.
this year it is a clear downwards trend.
that does not necessarily has to reflect the state of the game, but it is unusual and shows a decline of players at the moment.

PvP_Exploiter

This games target player base is those that will buy a Chapter, complete the quests and exploration in a week, then not log in again until the next release.

Or those that will log on for a new Crown Crate release, buy a bunch to get their desired Radiant Apex, and log off again

Actual players who are online day-to-day create performance problems, probably want to replay content, or PvP.

Cyrodiil population, average and capacity, have been shrinking for years.

Dungeon queue, takes longer and longer

BG queue, takes longer and longer

End-game raid players, dropping like flies. Will be worse next patch as there is less incentive to go for a title multiple times.

But because people log in, claim a daily reward, maybe spend 5 mins doing an event quest for tickets and log off again, the boast will be about how many "daily players" there are.

Kesstryl

Could be all the players quitting over account wide achievements and not wanting a card game as a chapter focus. Those of us who don't want AwA wanted the WoW version where we keep character achievements and also have a global account one. Once people realized this is NOT what we are getting, they were done. Lack on communication on PTS for some glaring bugs associated with it that have not been addressed, or even acknowledged, was the last straw. This last bit is where I stand.

Rasande_Robin

I understand people not playing inbetween events. I'm the kind of person that plays for "value" so I feel "forced" to play.
You get burned out, because of Zenimax desperation to show good numbers.

So you basically only do chiors inbetween events because they "force" you to play.
I dislike events/endeavours/login rewards strongly.

They also give "false" numbers just like twitch with drops...

ghost_bg_ESO

Part of EU based players either don't have internet access(and not only) or are restricted... there is war going on. Internet access is disturbed even at neighborhood countries not directly involved.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

We did lose a lot of veteran players a few years back now.
I saw a fleet of departures around 2018-2019

Many didn't really like the direction raids where taking:
- VSS
- VKA

The raids felt rather static and boring and I think a fair few lost interest, perhaps the DLC zones linked to these raids had something to do with it (Greymoor and Elsweyr North)

I think content direction is to blame and also the shift in the client base which have spoken about for quite some time and that we've seen through recent additions.

Magenpie

Northwold wrote: »

YantiParazi wrote: »

True, there is a natural cycle. But from looking at a number of different websites which shows the number of active players per month, it seems that there are much less players before this expansion compared to previews expansions. The game should have a small grow each year. This year the number of players is going down back to what it was in 2020

All other points aside, most of the world was trapped at home for a large part of the last two years. Basically, I'm not sure what you can read into player numbers, if anything, at this particular point.

I am by no means an expert in the inner workings/cycles of mmo players, but I think this is right. In my experience (I have played a lot of mmos for many years) there is always a lull in player numbers for a few months towards the end of an expansion/chapter cycle. People see the next content announcement, and the release date, they've done most of the things they want to with the current content, so they go away for a bit for a break, but will come back again when the next chapter drops.

And because the world was such a strange place for 2020/2021, I think trying to work out what players are doing is quite hard. It's possible, for example, that having spent two years in lockdown, people don't want to have as many game time hourse. And of course more people are back at work and have less time. Who knows?

Added to which, three new AAA mmos have recently released - New World/Elden Root RING/Lost Ark - and whatever you think of those games, that could account for players trying something new, particularly in the ESO content lull before High Isle arrives.

But I'm really just spinning stories here, I have no insider knowledge.

Edit: My typo amused me

Grandchamp1989

Youyouz06 wrote: »

We did lose a lot of veteran players a few years back now.
I saw a fleet of departures around 2018-2019

Many didn't really like the direction raids where taking:
- VSS
- VKA

The raids felt rather static and boring and I think a fair few lost interest, perhaps the DLC zones linked to these raids had something to do with it (Greymoor and Elsweyr North)

I think content direction is to blame and also the shift in the client base which have spoken about for quite some time and that we've seen through recent additions.

Yeah I do feel like there is not as many vet players anymore. I see mostly casuals a lot now even in vet content..

Supreme_Atromancer

YantiParazi wrote: »

Why not make housing actually usefull with mini games or movable platforms (just ideas i had while i wrote this)?
Why not add more PvP options, like group vs group in defending+attacking a keep, official 1v1 arena with ranks that aren't just hold by private guilds, group vs group only ranged siege weapons?
Why not useful quest rewards? I enjoy quests only because of the lore. No challenge and the rewards just bum me each time I complete a quest.

I'm not certain about the population size, it can be very hard to tell internally, but as a tangent I think the reaction to Tribute shows that the established community don't really want minigames, they want improvements to the systems they already play. I agree that it would be amazing to have reasons just to *be* in your house (unless you're a rper you just tend to furnish it and leave, and largely have no reason to go back). I guess parsing dummies are on the right track. Daily writs would be nice, too. What I'd love to see is harvestable node furnishings- alchemy or food plants, or "trap" furnishings you could use to set up arenas for duels- spinning blades, summonable fire atros, combat dummies that fight back (also useful for heal parsing?).

Oliviander

I am a veteran player subbing all the way since 2014
I have bought the new chapter but only becaus it was
a few hours before I realized that they will be killing my characters
with the implementation of AWA.
In the meantime I cancelled my sub over this tragedy
and the PTS thread indicates that there are many other
veteran players who feel exactly the same and
are cancelling their subs.

Tandor

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

YantiParazi wrote: »

Why not make housing actually usefull with mini games or movable platforms (just ideas i had while i wrote this)?
Why not add more PvP options, like group vs group in defending+attacking a keep, official 1v1 arena with ranks that aren't just hold by private guilds, group vs group only ranged siege weapons?
Why not useful quest rewards? I enjoy quests only because of the lore. No challenge and the rewards just bum me each time I complete a quest.

I'm not certain about the population size, it can be very hard to tell internally, but as a tangent I think the reaction to Tribute shows that the established community don't really want minigames, they want improvements to the systems they already play. I agree that it would be amazing to have reasons just to *be* in your house (unless you're a rper you just tend to furnish it and leave, and largely have no reason to go back). I guess parsing dummies are on the right track. Daily writs would be nice, too. What I'd love to see is harvestable node furnishings- alchemy or food plants, or "trap" furnishings you could use to set up arenas for duels- spinning blades, summonable fire atros, combat dummies that fight back (also useful for heal parsing?).

It's also very clear from the 2,500+ posts on an 85 page thread on the PTS forum that a lot of players don't want the systems they already play to be removed in order to make way for those minigames, and that if anything else is going to drive them away it's a determination on the part of ZOS not to engage with them over such changes. The fat will hit the fire when it all goes Live next week.

Knockmaker

Personally, I haven't played in 6 months except for daily logins which aren't regular either. I had been playing for over two years till then. I don't play, because I don't want to play, because I literally can't play due to lag, desynch, skills not firing etc. horrendous performance issues particularly in Cyrodiil. Maybe ZoS don't care much because the performance is still tolerable to their eyes as majority of EU players are physically close to the server. On the other hand, I am over 1500 km away from the servers. So, maybe the game is still somewhat playable for players who live in Germany, UK etc. (I know they are having issues as well, but probably not at a level of being unable to play to a great extent) but for me it isn't anymore.

Also, almost all the guilds I am part of seem to have become less active, with some of them having fewer members, others more and more inactive players.

Long story short, population downturn seems real to me, with me eventually becoming one of them as I don't play anymore, because I can't really play anymore.

Marginis

It's hard to make any accurate insight with anecdotal evidence, but I think in general it's safe to say there is a bit of a lull right now. To the effects of this, however, I would caution against jumping to any conclusions. Over my time playing this game on different megaservers, there have been periods of much more significant player population drops, so right now shouldn't be any cause for concern. Right now in particular, I'd estimate that the player counts were actually a bit inflated from the pandemic, and are currently leveling off moreso than dropping off.

Again, it's hard to say with just anecdotal evidence, but I do have eight or so years of anecdotal evidence so that might help.

sarahthes

Magenpie wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

YantiParazi wrote: »

True, there is a natural cycle. But from looking at a number of different websites which shows the number of active players per month, it seems that there are much less players before this expansion compared to previews expansions. The game should have a small grow each year. This year the number of players is going down back to what it was in 2020

All other points aside, most of the world was trapped at home for a large part of the last two years. Basically, I'm not sure what you can read into player numbers, if anything, at this particular point.

I am by no means an expert in the inner workings/cycles of mmo players, but I think this is right. In my experience (I have played a lot of mmos for many years) there is always a lull in player numbers for a few months towards the end of an expansion/chapter cycle. People see the next content announcement, and the release date, they've done most of the things they want to with the current content, so they go away for a bit for a break, but will come back again when the next chapter drops.

And because the world was such a strange place for 2020/2021, I think trying to work out what players are doing is quite hard. It's possible, for example, that having spent two years in lockdown, people don't want to have as many game time hourse. And of course more people are back at work and have less time. Who knows?

Added to which, three new AAA mmos have recently released - New World/Elden Root RING/Lost Ark - and whatever you think of those games, that could account for players trying something new, particularly in the ESO content lull before High Isle arrives.

But I'm really just spinning stories here, I have no insider knowledge.

Edit: My typo amused me

Elden Ring isn't an MMO and New World is on the verge of maintenance mode if something doesn't change soon. Almost everyone I know who left ESO for New World is now playing something else (around half came back to ESO, the other half are still burnt out).

SkaraMinoc

YantiParazi wrote: »

Why not add more PvP options, like group vs group in defending+attacking a keep, official 1v1 arena with ranks that aren't just hold by private guilds, group vs group only ranged siege weapons?

Yes please.

Leftover_Pizza

Kesstryl wrote: »

Could be all the players quitting over account wide achievements and not wanting a card game as a chapter focus. Those of us who don't want AwA wanted the WoW version where we keep character achievements and also have a global account one. Once people realized this is NOT what we are getting, they were done. Lack on communication on PTS for some glaring bugs associated with it that have not been addressed, or even acknowledged, was the last straw. This last bit is where I stand.

Expanding on the 'not a WoW version' idea, there aren't many collectibles to get in this game, other than spending extra money on crowns. Obtaining stuff from the store, instead of grinding them in dungeons/quests/achievements, is so utterly rewardless and meaningless.
If you see someone riding a radiant apex mount, you know that the 'more money than sense' rule applies. If you saw someone in WoW riding a Violet Proto Drake, you knew there was good effort put into obtaining that mount. It has much more meaning than just grabbing it from the store.
The 'only obtainable at/by' in WoW means you have to play for it. In ESO it means you have to pay for it.
I could understand that choice for accounts without a sub, but for those who do sub, collectibles should be looted in the game and not be bought outside it.
This cash grab business model rubs me completely the wrong way and that is what made me quit playing ESO. There is no incentive to grind and even less to buy items from the crown store. I'm sure I'm not the only player feeling that way and I can see why players, especially old skool MMORPG players, stop adding to the active player base numbers.

inb4 "this is how games work these days, so live with it": it's because players allowed games to become cash grabs. They rather pay to not play.

Casul

I quit in December due to PvP performance issues and monetization disagreements. Watched some videos that got my morale up, came back in January for 2 weeks. Hated the grindy event and seeing some of the chapter content just reaffirmed my original feelings. Now I haven't played since mid January and am probably done for good. It was a fun 6 years. Made lots of friends. But the game isn't for people like me anymore. Moved on to Elden Ring which is probably my permanent home (came to ESO when I got bored of Dark souls 2, liked the similarities on the combat, namely resource management.) I am trying to not be bitter, more of a sad it ended but happy it happened. All in all I hope everyone that still enjoys ESO can keep enjoying it.

PvP_Exploiter

ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »

Part of EU based players either don't have internet access(and not only) or are restricted... there is war going on. Internet access is disturbed even at neighborhood countries not directly involved.

But the decline has been happening for years.

Youyouz06 wrote: »

We did lose a lot of veteran players a few years back now.
I saw a fleet of departures around 2018-2019

Many didn't really like the direction raids where taking:
- VSS
- VKA

The raids felt rather static and boring and I think a fair few lost interest, perhaps the DLC zones linked to these raids had something to do with it (Greymoor and Elsweyr North)

I think content direction is to blame and also the shift in the client base which have spoken about for quite some time and that we've seen through recent additions.

Yeah, even some of my friends which do rarely any PvE all despise the new 3 Boss 3 HM layout of all trials and dungeons.

Not a fan personally but vMoL is widely regarded as the most fun trial. Outside of vAS and vCR which are my favourites but are "mini-trials".

zaria

Northwold wrote: »

YantiParazi wrote: »

True, there is a natural cycle. But from looking at a number of different websites which shows the number of active players per month, it seems that there are much less players before this expansion compared to previews expansions. The game should have a small grow each year. This year the number of players is going down back to what it was in 2020

All other points aside, most of the world was trapped at home for a large part of the last two years. Basically, I'm not sure what you can read into player numbers, if anything, at this particular point.

Agree, online game got an serious boost during the pandemic. Now people are bored because playing too much.

Also Elden ring probably draw in new players for some time.

AcadianPaladin

Game seems to be getting more crowded to me. Irritatingly so. I find myself wishing they'd give us more instances so each would have less players. I literally don't recall the last time, for example, I did an undaunted delve where I did not have to wait for the boss to respawn or rush to get a light attack in before others killed it.

tonyblack

Personally i moved to elden ring and having a blast there. It’s offer everything i was missing in eso, from challenging and engaging combat to better written quests and more entertaining exploration. For now i only log on to do writs and endeavors as fast as possible while reading forums in loading screens. I’ll do dungeons when they’ll go live but not gonna lie my excitement for future dlcs isn’t there because of no meaningful additions to combat and stale state of dlcs themselves with no innovations.

EdmondDontes

I've been on since a few months after release. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I speak for the vast majority that finished Cadwells silver and gold and moved on to PvP as the endgame.

The massive turnover rates for players began about three years ago. We were only 1 year into the "we're working on it" business model at that time. Since then nothing has changed except player turnover rate has increased and player retention rates have decreased. Now we are into year 5 of the "we're working on it" business model. Population caps in cyrodiil are now 75/faction when they used to be 500/faction, and performance is still worse than when population caps were much higher.

Now we have Dark Convergence and a radically broken low pop whatever going on that ZOS refuses to do anything about making things even more toxic and horrible.

After 8 years of playing this game I've realized I don't know how or why ZOS does most of the things they do, but I do know for certain I will never again believe any claim coming from ZOS or one of it's representatives. And I absolutely, under no circumstances, will be purchasing another ZOS product. Ever. Paying customers deserve more respect than ZOS is capable of. (see Lamberts wife video)

There is only one way ZOS can restore trust with most customers and they've chosen not to do that for over 5 years now. Hence, people are finding other things to do with their time.

Magenpie

@sarahthes

Yes sorry my mistake - I know it has a multiplayer mode, but it's mainly a single player game.

But I really meant it was a big release which might be drawing people away. Regardless of how disastrous New World is, it's still attracted many players to it, even as you suggest. I think more people will come back to ESO when High Isle releases. Or maybe I'm wrong. Who knows.

Amottica

Northwold wrote: »

Isn't there a natural cycle of chapter comes out, players surge, lull, DLC comes out, players surge, lull? Why would you expect players to increase based on the *announcement* of a new chapter? There's not new content yet.

ESO, just like pretty much any business, is cyclical. It is why businesses to not put much weight into changes from one month to the next but they compare one month to the same month in the preceding years. It is unimportant if there are fewer players this month than there were last month. What is important is the annual growth.

Further, we have no true gauge on what is happening with the overall player population. Seeing members of our inner circle in-game, or seeming to find it harder to get a group together does not reflect on the big picture. It is far too small of a sample.

With that, the only thing we can use to see what is happening with the player population is the Steam Charts for ESO. While it is not taking into account of console activities, it does give the best picture of the health of the game we will ever see. It also shows that February '22 has about 1200 fewer average players than February '21 but about 300 more average players (slightly mixed results). However, when looking back to February '20 the charts show ESO has over 2k average players more this year and more than 2100 peak players.

That shows an increase in players and something the business people as Zenimax would be very pleased with. After all, this is how they, and any smart business, compare their internal numbers. Again, Steam does offer a limited glimpse, but it is by far the best information we get.

So the conclusion is the number of players is not decreasing.