Why we haven't gotten a new class and when we'll be getting one and PVP thoughts

Tornaad

I have been thinking about what all ZOS has been doing and trying to figure out where they might be going and overall I am excited.

1. They have been slowly reworking how the classes and combat work to expand the options we have for play styles.

This is likely the biggest reason they have not released a class. Why release a new class if you are going to change the core structure of how things are going to be working. This includes things like the reworking of the different buffs that they are working on right now. I think after they finish the changes they have been working on for a few years, we will start to see the regular cadence of new classes we are all hoping for.

2. PVP
No, I do not think they have forgotten about PVP. No, I do not think it is on the back burner. I very much recognize the problems the PVP has been experiencing and I believe they are working as fast as they safely can to get things fixed. I don't really have any idea of where this is going, but I know what is holding it back and have an insight into the reasoning behind what has taken so long to get things moving.
The big thing I see holding up PVP is the server problems that everyone has been complaining about. When they announced that they are planning on essentially redoing the foundational code of the game, as a business major, I instantly knew what was likely going on behind the scenes.
That is going to be a massive and incredibly expensive undertaking that will not have been approved until every other possible alternative had been exhausted. The tests they ran on PVP over a few patches were all part of that process, and while from our side it appeared as though they were not accomplishing anything, what they let them do was to finally get permission to properly fix the servers. And while I do not have any guesses for what is going to be happening with PVP after they fix things, I suspect that as they go through the foundational coding of the game, they will likely take the opportunity to initiate a bunch of pet projects they have been wanting to do but did not have the time or ability to do.


Overall, I am excited to see where things will be in a year or two and especially excited to see where things will go after that.

Arunei

Honestly I think the main reason they haven't added new Classes is because they're still struggling with balance between the ones we have. PvPers are constantly saying "X Class needs nerfed it's too OP!", "No, X Class needs to be buffed and Y Class is ACTUALLY OP and needs nerfed!", and "You're all stupid those Classes suck Z Class is obviously the most OP garbage and needs nerfed this second!". How do you properly balance a game where one group of people thinks skills and passives that are different makes certain Classes OP but then there are the people saying making things homogenized makes everything bland and boring? Adding another Class to that would only make it worse, and on top of that, they'd be accused of releasing another "pay to win" Class, since it's unlikely it'd be part of any base game update.

And yeah, I know they've claimed the reason is because of limitations on consoles regarding new animations, but that makes little sense to me when every update brings new dungeons, delves, trials, and so on, with new bosses and enemies that have unique animations.

Sluggy

Zuboko wrote: »

No, I do not think they have forgotten about PVP. No, I do not think it is on the back burner.

Let's be real here for a moment, it's not on the backburner. Its support is just ended. You don't actively ignore a part of the game for seven years and call that 'on the back burner'. They've said nothing new will be happening with PvP until stuff is fixed - and I believe that. Hence the reason I see it as 'no longer supported'.

Arunei wrote: »

And yeah, I know they've claimed the reason is because of limitations on consoles regarding new animations, but that makes little sense to me when every update brings new dungeons, delves, trials, and so on, with new bosses and enemies that have unique animations.

I agree that it makes no sense to add more into the mix while balance is the way it is and core gameplay changes are happening, it's also very believable that console limits would be a part of this as well.

First off, they've been recycling textures, models, animations, and entire characters and scenes for ages now. I first noticed how obvious it was getting back when Elsweyr came out. Second, adding the occasional unique model or locations that are specific to certain locations, times, and events isn't the problem. It's having the room in ram/vram to keep it loaded at the same time that becomes an issue. A big baddie that gets loaded in during a certain quest can be accommodated by unloading other currently unused assets. On the other hand, player-driven characters that must be available in ram at nearly all times due to the likelihood that you will see other players at any given time using those characters that require those assets.

This does raise another concern that I've had for ages, and clearly has caused issues in the past and will likely cause more in the future... the ever expanding list of styles, and motifs. While it's possible to stream some of this data in at runtime it can clearly cause issues (like entire armies in Cyrodiil being invisible until you suddenly find you've stumbled into the middle of one after their assets load) and I only see this issue getting worse as time rolls forward.

Finedaible

They already basically admitted to having their hands tied to console hardware, a bloated database, and game engine code limitations, which is supposedly why these last two years have nothing new for combat skill lines or major systems and also why they will supposedly be reworking the game engine code this year. Whether or not they deliver in a timely manner remains to be seen, but the past track record does not fill me with optimism.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595442/eso-pvp-update-january-2022/p1

Why they continue to release more sets, outfit styles, mounts, and other database bloat in the meantime remains a mystery.

S0Z0H

Arunei wrote: »

Honestly I think the main reason they haven't added new Classes is because they're still struggling with balance between the ones we have. PvPers are constantly saying "X Class needs nerfed it's too OP!", "No, X Class needs to be buffed and Y Class is ACTUALLY OP and needs nerfed!", and "You're all stupid those Classes suck Z Class is obviously the most OP garbage and needs nerfed this second!". How do you properly balance a game where one group of people thinks skills and passives that are different makes certain Classes OP but then there are the people saying making things homogenized makes everything bland and boring? Adding another Class to that would only make it worse, and on top of that, they'd be accused of releasing another "pay to win" Class, since it's unlikely it'd be part of any base game update.

And yeah, I know they've claimed the reason is because of limitations on consoles regarding new animations, but that makes little sense to me when every update brings new dungeons, delves, trials, and so on, with new bosses and enemies that have unique animations.

The servers are just out dated. They can no longer handle everything. They are doing the cheapest methods to fix the server. Imagine some guy who olds an old car, and it gets him from A to B. Instead of buying a new engine, he just jimmy rigs it and uses duck tape and all times of DIY tricks to keep it running. It slowly chugs along, but it gets the job done.

That's basically ZOS, they are trying to spend the very least money possible to maintain their game. I personally doubt the dev team is all that big anymore.
And the game can kinda maintain itself just enough , with little maintenance here and there. And it stays an asset for the company versus a liability. Meaning costing more for company to run than what they take in annuely in revenue. This is just how to understand a little bit as to why things are they way they are. This isn't a way of making excuses for ZOS. Rather it's looking at the situation clearly and honestly.

"They make sure the Crown Store works" , is an old joke lol, but it's true. It's not that hard for them to make a few new zones, and have actors phone in some dialogue. It's all probably completed anyways.

Keep in mind , ZOS was in a position for years that depended on A LOT of outside investors. So when you are that much in debt, you are pressured to make a quick profit to meet contract agreements. This type of "financing" , when understood, really can impact corporate culture, so to speak. And a prevailing business model. One that can perceived to not be so , shall I say , not very "consumer friendly".

Now, things are a bit different , Microsoft has a lot of cash to support it. But ZOS is probably slowly weaning off the old business habits. But that's just a theory. Either way, someone is doing really financially well at ZOS.
And PVP has been cleaverly tied to PVE dlc expansions , so it's a slick type of pay to win. Ya gotta love it lol.

Here's hoping they do the right things going forward. Cuz we all can choose to stop playing and paying if things don't change for the better.

drsalvation

To everyone who says that no classes due to balance issues...
Why are we getting gear that casts skills for free then?
Dark Convergence could've easily been a new class ultimate that actually costs resources and has to be built up to use, instead we get it for free from some gear set that only makes already OP ultimates like colossus even worse.

Most of these gear sets should be skills that take skill points, not a piece of armor that does your fighting for you.
Until then, the game will keep playing itself, player skills won't matter because it won't matter how good you are as a player with a gamepad, it would matter how well-suited your character is.

So balance issues are not a valid excuse as long as we keep getting gear that cast skills for us for free.

Arunei

drsalvation wrote: »

To everyone who says that no classes due to balance issues...
Why are we getting gear that casts skills for free then?
Dark Convergence could've easily been a new class ultimate that actually costs resources and has to be built up to use, instead we get it for free from some gear set that only makes already OP ultimates like colossus even worse.

Most of these gear sets should be skills that take skill points, not a piece of armor that does your fighting for you.
Until then, the game will keep playing itself, player skills won't matter because it won't matter how good you are as a player with a gamepad, it would matter how well-suited your character is.

So balance issues are not a valid excuse as long as we keep getting gear that cast skills for us for free.

A handful of sets that are overtuned is a lot different than a new Class with 3 active skill lines and 5 (or is it 6 icr offhand) passive skills. The number of players who use any given set is a fraction of the number of players who play any given Class, so these "free skills" are being used a LOT less often than Class skills would be, which sorry to say means that Class skills this require more balancing.

kargen27

"Dark Convergence could've easily been a new class ultimate that actually costs resources and has to be built up to use, instead we get it for free from some gear set that only makes already OP ultimates like colossus even worse."

and the forums would be filled with P2W threads. I think Dark Convergence needs some adjusting but they have moved in the right direction with it and for what it was intended it really needed to be available to all. I like that armor sets act in different ways. Adds more choices meaning more diverse builds.
A new class needs three trees that are different enough to warrant a new class and still balanced with what we have now. Really at this point all they could give us in a new skill is different animation for something that already exists. Change stun to mesmerize, give it a new animation and in the end you get the same affect. The target is temporarily disabled.
A new class would mean more character slots needed and we have been told slots are limited in part because of performance.

Talosgobrrrr

kargen27 wrote: »

"Dark Convergence could've easily been a new class ultimate that actually costs resources and has to be built up to use, instead we get it for free from some gear set that only makes already OP ultimates like colossus even worse."

and the forums would be filled with P2W threads. I think Dark Convergence needs some adjusting but they have moved in the right direction with it and for what it was intended it really needed to be available to all. I like that armor sets act in different ways. Adds more choices meaning more diverse builds.
A new class needs three trees that are different enough to warrant a new class and still balanced with what we have now. Really at this point all they could give us in a new skill is different animation for something that already exists. Change stun to mesmerize, give it a new animation and in the end you get the same affect. The target is temporarily disabled.
A new class would mean more character slots needed and we have been told slots are limited in part because of performance.

I keep saying that allowing a mage to do more damage with two daggers than with a staff seems like a way to destroy your own game and its coherence, not even in WoW or Guild Wars 2 do you see those weird builds, I What they would have to do is take out a summoned weapon like in Skyrim + a spell in one hand (I don't care if it's hard to balance, but it doesn't hurt your eyes like seeing wizards with two daggers) and so the wizard doesn't so reliant on staves and stamina dps to give them something like spears or fist weapons, that before they say it, there are already npc's using spears with different animations than the Templar!