Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of January 19:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
•[COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
•[COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
The Growing Psychological Detriments of ESO
Eormenric
✭✭✭
[This is a long post encompassing years of Elder Scrolls Online perspectives. Spoiler tags were included to help segment the post.]
I needed to understand why I was losing interest in ESO and feeling worse to login and play than if I just ignored the game. I started compiling a list of things that were making me feel a certain way: regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless, and frustrated. I realize I might not be alone in how I'm feeling, so I started this thread to see whom all this might help by shining a light on these particular topics.
My history is that I've played ESO since beta, having before played WoW and Runescape for a number of years alongside trying other MMOs and console games. I currently play ESO about 2-5 hours per day. I've been active with events, arenas, dungeon trifectas, normal trials (veteran is intimidating to me because of how meta-expected they are, but I know I could do it), battlegrounds, Imperial City, and Cyrodiil's PvE portion because I hate the PvP lag. I craft, do dailies, collect things, fill my stickerbook, and do a little bit of housing, all solo and often with others.
What I've noticed is the same sets of activities and approaches for several years now. The following content proves damaging to my own and I think others' mindset when interacting with the game.
CATEGORY ONE: What Is Expected Of Us, FOMO, Carrot-Stick Incentives, and Grinds (because they are inherently not fun). Or, ESO: The Collection Simulator.
CATEGORY TWO: Random Number Generator. Frustration of Control and Lack of Meaningful Rewards.
CATEGORY THREE: The Slow Feedback Loop and Deceptive Engagement Breeds Skepticism, Hopelessness, and Certainly No Trust.
THE TAKEAWAY:
That's all I have to say. I hope ESO improves at a pace acceptable to each player. I believe the game is still relatively young and capable of making a shift in direction, but it needs to take heart to that. Players are more keenly aware of exploitation now and have no qualms moving to different entertainment, never to look back. I took one week to write this post and didn't play at all during that time. I actually started to get excited to jump in and do things again and I didn't worry about the grinds or dailies, no matter how much gold or stuff I missed. Don't commend that break, though. It just translates to rebuilding tolerance for disappointing design that I wish I could avoid while playing. I want my few hours a day to feel well-spent. I hope the team has the same goal. I look forward to where ESO goes in 2022. May the years I've already spent in the game continue to grow with my then newfound enthusiasm.
Edited by Eormenric on February 14, 2022 6:54PM I needed to understand why I was losing interest in ESO and feeling worse to login and play than if I just ignored the game. I started compiling a list of things that were making me feel a certain way: regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless, and frustrated. I realize I might not be alone in how I'm feeling, so I started this thread to see whom all this might help by shining a light on these particular topics.
My history is that I've played ESO since beta, having before played WoW and Runescape for a number of years alongside trying other MMOs and console games. I currently play ESO about 2-5 hours per day. I've been active with events, arenas, dungeon trifectas, normal trials (veteran is intimidating to me because of how meta-expected they are, but I know I could do it), battlegrounds, Imperial City, and Cyrodiil's PvE portion because I hate the PvP lag. I craft, do dailies, collect things, fill my stickerbook, and do a little bit of housing, all solo and often with others.
What I've noticed is the same sets of activities and approaches for several years now. The following content proves damaging to my own and I think others' mindset when interacting with the game.
CATEGORY ONE: What Is Expected Of Us, FOMO, Carrot-Stick Incentives, and Grinds (because they are inherently not fun). Or, ESO: The Collection Simulator.
1) Dailies Per Character - There are 2 sets of dailies in every Story DLC and chapter (12 total locations for 24 quests), 7 Crafting Writs, 2 Dark Brotherhood and 2 Thieves Guild dailies, 6 Imperial City and 20+ Cyrodiil dailies, daily dungeon and daily battleground, 3 pledges, prologue daily quests, Fighters and Mages Guilds daily quests, and Craglorn daily quests.
Did I miss some? I stopped counting after it reached 70+. No one is expected to do each of these in one day. But the fact that so many exist in a horizontal progression environment means that they are always relevant and, as long as you don't participate, you are missing out on x relevant thing. The RNG component to motifs in daily coffers is trivialized by being able to buy/sell them, but RNG on Antiquity Leads means players participate with no known conclusion to their pursuit--and you must complete THAT SPECIFIC set of dailies. Crafting Writs provide so much gold (4.6k per character) that it pays for itself to invest in additional character slots (18 total) to do these each day. Add on a second account (for the low base game cost of <$10), also at max character limit (36 total with both accounts), and the monthly gold haul is well over 4.5mil gold BEFORE vendoring and selling writs/materials/maps (likely to double that amount after sales). It takes some planning to reach such a return and the fact that players resort to such means shows the addictive nature of daily crafting writs and the inordinate amount of effort spent on such a wealth-defining activity. There are more Daily Quests accessible than the feasibility to keep track of them. So few are intrinsically enjoyable, yet they are pumped out each quarter as acceptable content for players.
2) Weekly Quests - One weekly quest for each trial (currently 10) for extra, purely RNG gear and motif drop.
Weekly quests provide a lot of breathing room to participate on a consistent basis. I like that. But when you take into account how long these trial runs might take, that there are 10 that can be done each week, and the RNG attached to the reward coffers, it equates to an unrealistic expectation of playtime. The coffers don't even exclusively reward weapons/jewelry--the slowest-to-acquire pieces--adding yet another disappointing roulette feature to collection. Why aren't these more rewarding and curated? If trials won't be done for the sheer fun of it, then repeatable quests aren't the answer to sustaining group activities. I'd still rather things be weekly than daily. Only then can players be more free to pursue other activities in the game, revitalizing player-barren places. But trials, especially ones that have existed since the game's launch, need a face-lift or a new, changing component if they wish to be things we enjoy doing for more than the stickerbook. Speaking of that...
3) Collect Almost 500 Armor Sets - This includes Overland, Dungeon, Trial, Arena, PvP, Anquities, and Crafted. (The priority of these sets always favors the newest content to drive sales for in-game power. Read: Pay-For-Advantage. Great...)
The ever-growing armor set selection. A truly momentous task to acquire these for "convenience" as long as you then farm the transmute crystals (of few sources and even less distribution) to reconstruct them. The numbers of armor sets released each year is out of control. Update 33 will see a gain of 14 sets. The High Isle chapter will add more. The dungeon DLC after that will add 8. And the story DLC will add more still. Right now, it would take 30+ runs of a single dungeon to collect its stickerbook portion. Hardmode might half that, but it's still a lot of the exact same thing to inch your want to completion. Every 3 months, you will be compelled to acquire the newest sets if you wish to stay relevant in power and utility, all while dismissing everything that came before. Break this cycle and cut the amount of armor sets released in half or more. Instead, have each new dungeon contain 1 set but also reward players with Hero Tokens to purchase bags from Set Vendors for any dungeon just like in PvP. Completed Normal Dungeons would reward 1 Token, Veteran 2, and Hardmode 3. Bags would cost 2 tokens for a random curated piece or specific gear could be purchased for 3 (armor), 4 (weapon/jewelry), or 5 (monster helm) in your trait choice. Always found in purple, but still reconstructed in blue. Yes, this means people that can't complete veteran dungeon can now earn monster helm sets. You're welcome! Just like how Pokemon had to start dropping its in-game roster count, ESO will have the same engorged, impossible-to-balance fate with armor sets unless it does something about it. We are overwhelmed, drowning in armor sets. Refresh, renew, and reuse!
4) Endeavors - 3 daily, 1 weekly.
Another thing to compel players to log in. A way to earn Crown Crate items, yes, but given that a large amount of players really enjoy the aesthetics of Radiant Apex Mounts (can you blame them?), it'll take 6+ months of DAILY engagement to get one--and that time will increase as Endeavors offer less and less (which they have been). Let's do some math: If you earn $15/hr, it'll take you 10 hours at your job to buy 21,000 crowns ($149.99). Spend those crowns on at least 60 crown crates. If you get 1 radiant apex (highly likely, but sadly RNG still exists here), it will have taken you 10 hours to get it--either 1 or 2 days of work. Alternatively, if it took just 7 hours a week to complete each daily endeavor and the weekly one, for 26 weeks (6 months), it would take you 182 hours to get 1 radiant apex. It's free, but that's a 10hr commitment versus 182hrs of bottlenecked commitment. Aron Ralston was trapped with a boulder on his arm for over 5 days (127 hours) and he was rewarded with life. It'll take you far longer than that just to get a nice collection of pixels and unique sound effects. That's a ridiculous grind for the other options either being luck, real-life wealth, irresponsibility, or gambling addiction. Endeavors could even be argued as an addictive activity themselves! Oh, what healthy choices we have.
5) Daily Login Rewards - each day of a month.
Stop. We have so many reasons to login each day: Endeavors, Dailies, Login Rewards, new motif drops, random dungeon/bg. This excessive harassment to play ESO is crippling to its integrity and quality of content. The only reason for a daily login reward is for players to see the "What's on sale" pop-up. That is fine. But then remove so many other pleas of daily engagement because with how many things I'm supposed to get to, I'm not wanting to do any now. You want my attention every day? What is this? Social media? If the game had numerous and differing entertainment options that were inherently fun (that is, without the need of a direct reward), appealing to a variety of interests, I wouldn't need to be reminded to log in. I simply would.
CONCLUSION: While it is up to the player to decide how to spend their day, the game's offering of content influences that decision by directly or indirectly penalizing players that don't engage in as much content as possible. In a world of shrinking free time, ESO instills regret by us choosing to engage in this incentive over that one, lest we burn out on everything every day. I acknowledge that most of these dailies and collections have a shelf life of use. E.G. Once you collect all armor sets, motif pieces, or no longer have a use for Cyrodiil Merits, you really don't need to participate in them anymore... until updates/changes, transmute crystal needs, or events drag you back in, giving no other choice than to repeat the same boring things you've done plenty of times already. No one enjoys spending time every day doing Crafting Writs on each character just to feel like they can afford participating in the marketplace. Daily Quests have become the norm in MMOs and I don't understand why. Are players so wayward that we need a literal chore to remind us why we want to play? If dailies are a way to succeed, why does success have to be this monotonous? (Let's not forget that every daily quest is also tied to something that can be sold...) Isn't this no different than clocking into a job? Where is the intrinsic fun? If ESO uses daily quests to spread population and give relevancy to otherwise underappreciated areas, it needs a better system than this drudgery. If areas of the game cannot hold interest on their own, that is the main problem. No one likes the daily; they are content with what it gives them. Repeatable quests do not exist to fix inherently flawed game design and collection grinds show a desperation to retain players instead of entertaining them enough to want to stay.
Did I miss some? I stopped counting after it reached 70+. No one is expected to do each of these in one day. But the fact that so many exist in a horizontal progression environment means that they are always relevant and, as long as you don't participate, you are missing out on x relevant thing. The RNG component to motifs in daily coffers is trivialized by being able to buy/sell them, but RNG on Antiquity Leads means players participate with no known conclusion to their pursuit--and you must complete THAT SPECIFIC set of dailies. Crafting Writs provide so much gold (4.6k per character) that it pays for itself to invest in additional character slots (18 total) to do these each day. Add on a second account (for the low base game cost of <$10), also at max character limit (36 total with both accounts), and the monthly gold haul is well over 4.5mil gold BEFORE vendoring and selling writs/materials/maps (likely to double that amount after sales). It takes some planning to reach such a return and the fact that players resort to such means shows the addictive nature of daily crafting writs and the inordinate amount of effort spent on such a wealth-defining activity. There are more Daily Quests accessible than the feasibility to keep track of them. So few are intrinsically enjoyable, yet they are pumped out each quarter as acceptable content for players.
2) Weekly Quests - One weekly quest for each trial (currently 10) for extra, purely RNG gear and motif drop.
Weekly quests provide a lot of breathing room to participate on a consistent basis. I like that. But when you take into account how long these trial runs might take, that there are 10 that can be done each week, and the RNG attached to the reward coffers, it equates to an unrealistic expectation of playtime. The coffers don't even exclusively reward weapons/jewelry--the slowest-to-acquire pieces--adding yet another disappointing roulette feature to collection. Why aren't these more rewarding and curated? If trials won't be done for the sheer fun of it, then repeatable quests aren't the answer to sustaining group activities. I'd still rather things be weekly than daily. Only then can players be more free to pursue other activities in the game, revitalizing player-barren places. But trials, especially ones that have existed since the game's launch, need a face-lift or a new, changing component if they wish to be things we enjoy doing for more than the stickerbook. Speaking of that...
3) Collect Almost 500 Armor Sets - This includes Overland, Dungeon, Trial, Arena, PvP, Anquities, and Crafted. (The priority of these sets always favors the newest content to drive sales for in-game power. Read: Pay-For-Advantage. Great...)
The ever-growing armor set selection. A truly momentous task to acquire these for "convenience" as long as you then farm the transmute crystals (of few sources and even less distribution) to reconstruct them. The numbers of armor sets released each year is out of control. Update 33 will see a gain of 14 sets. The High Isle chapter will add more. The dungeon DLC after that will add 8. And the story DLC will add more still. Right now, it would take 30+ runs of a single dungeon to collect its stickerbook portion. Hardmode might half that, but it's still a lot of the exact same thing to inch your want to completion. Every 3 months, you will be compelled to acquire the newest sets if you wish to stay relevant in power and utility, all while dismissing everything that came before. Break this cycle and cut the amount of armor sets released in half or more. Instead, have each new dungeon contain 1 set but also reward players with Hero Tokens to purchase bags from Set Vendors for any dungeon just like in PvP. Completed Normal Dungeons would reward 1 Token, Veteran 2, and Hardmode 3. Bags would cost 2 tokens for a random curated piece or specific gear could be purchased for 3 (armor), 4 (weapon/jewelry), or 5 (monster helm) in your trait choice. Always found in purple, but still reconstructed in blue. Yes, this means people that can't complete veteran dungeon can now earn monster helm sets. You're welcome! Just like how Pokemon had to start dropping its in-game roster count, ESO will have the same engorged, impossible-to-balance fate with armor sets unless it does something about it. We are overwhelmed, drowning in armor sets. Refresh, renew, and reuse!
4) Endeavors - 3 daily, 1 weekly.
Another thing to compel players to log in. A way to earn Crown Crate items, yes, but given that a large amount of players really enjoy the aesthetics of Radiant Apex Mounts (can you blame them?), it'll take 6+ months of DAILY engagement to get one--and that time will increase as Endeavors offer less and less (which they have been). Let's do some math: If you earn $15/hr, it'll take you 10 hours at your job to buy 21,000 crowns ($149.99). Spend those crowns on at least 60 crown crates. If you get 1 radiant apex (highly likely, but sadly RNG still exists here), it will have taken you 10 hours to get it--either 1 or 2 days of work. Alternatively, if it took just 7 hours a week to complete each daily endeavor and the weekly one, for 26 weeks (6 months), it would take you 182 hours to get 1 radiant apex. It's free, but that's a 10hr commitment versus 182hrs of bottlenecked commitment. Aron Ralston was trapped with a boulder on his arm for over 5 days (127 hours) and he was rewarded with life. It'll take you far longer than that just to get a nice collection of pixels and unique sound effects. That's a ridiculous grind for the other options either being luck, real-life wealth, irresponsibility, or gambling addiction. Endeavors could even be argued as an addictive activity themselves! Oh, what healthy choices we have.
5) Daily Login Rewards - each day of a month.
Stop. We have so many reasons to login each day: Endeavors, Dailies, Login Rewards, new motif drops, random dungeon/bg. This excessive harassment to play ESO is crippling to its integrity and quality of content. The only reason for a daily login reward is for players to see the "What's on sale" pop-up. That is fine. But then remove so many other pleas of daily engagement because with how many things I'm supposed to get to, I'm not wanting to do any now. You want my attention every day? What is this? Social media? If the game had numerous and differing entertainment options that were inherently fun (that is, without the need of a direct reward), appealing to a variety of interests, I wouldn't need to be reminded to log in. I simply would.
CONCLUSION: While it is up to the player to decide how to spend their day, the game's offering of content influences that decision by directly or indirectly penalizing players that don't engage in as much content as possible. In a world of shrinking free time, ESO instills regret by us choosing to engage in this incentive over that one, lest we burn out on everything every day. I acknowledge that most of these dailies and collections have a shelf life of use. E.G. Once you collect all armor sets, motif pieces, or no longer have a use for Cyrodiil Merits, you really don't need to participate in them anymore... until updates/changes, transmute crystal needs, or events drag you back in, giving no other choice than to repeat the same boring things you've done plenty of times already. No one enjoys spending time every day doing Crafting Writs on each character just to feel like they can afford participating in the marketplace. Daily Quests have become the norm in MMOs and I don't understand why. Are players so wayward that we need a literal chore to remind us why we want to play? If dailies are a way to succeed, why does success have to be this monotonous? (Let's not forget that every daily quest is also tied to something that can be sold...) Isn't this no different than clocking into a job? Where is the intrinsic fun? If ESO uses daily quests to spread population and give relevancy to otherwise underappreciated areas, it needs a better system than this drudgery. If areas of the game cannot hold interest on their own, that is the main problem. No one likes the daily; they are content with what it gives them. Repeatable quests do not exist to fix inherently flawed game design and collection grinds show a desperation to retain players instead of entertaining them enough to want to stay.
CATEGORY TWO: Random Number Generator. Frustration of Control and Lack of Meaningful Rewards.
1) Curated Drops - The Elder Scrolls Online initially gained my full support for curated drops. It was like the developers knew what it was like to be a player and sought to really give us a reward for every dungeon and trial. That our effort was not in vain. But that's where the buck stopped and it bred a new problem. Curated Drops shifts the focus off RNG to slow transmute crystal grinds, all but forcing players to participate everywhere they can be located. Daily dungeon for 10, Rewards of the Worthy for 4 99% of the time but maybe get 5 or 20, 3 pledges for 5 each, and participating in Cyrodiil to earn end-of-campaign rewards for 50. You can also try to top various leaderboards for just 5... Still, these amounts are so small for what might require 200+ to construct a new build for your character (per character!). With just one character, it would take you ~7 days to reach this amount without Cyrodiil. This system expects you to test every possible build on the PTS before committing on live because of the sheer cost. I do not like that Tales of Tribute is the transmute crystal solution because that's what will pigeonhole players into doing it--how convenient to stoke chapter sales. But we still have no idea the amount ToT can offer. The only benefit would be if it can reward a large (200+) or infinite amount of transmute crystals weekly (not daily... no more dailies). Still, we'll be required to buy the new chapter to reap this benefit. People have been asking for more crystals ever since the stickerbook was announced. Instead, we just got the cap raised, which only helps zealous PvPers chock full of geodes.
2) Curate Everything - PvP Set Bags, Chests, Coffers, Motifs, Recipes, and other bags of random gear goodies. These things need curation too. ESO has the chance to be an MMO that guides players to what makes them happy instead of the burden of collection. It made progress with curated drops but it needs to remove RNG entirely. I've been on this hamster wheel for a long time and I'd like to know what it's like to run around outside. By guaranteeing me what I'm looking for, I'll be willing AND HAPPY to put in the time. That is a clear reward. RNG is not a reward system; RNG is gambling time for progression. Imagine you're on your way to work when an accident forces you to take a detour. Then another accident causes another detour. It happens a third time and then finally you get to work. You're frustrated because you left home on time, your car didn't break down because you do maintenance on it, and you knew the fastest route to take. What could have been an enjoyable commute from Point A to B, turned into a hassle that was entirely out of your control. This is RNG. Stop throwing accidents in front of us and let us get to work! Milking gametime out of your players by having them randomly fail or succeed in their goals is not a way to earn our appreciation and it's disrespectful to our time invested in your product, especially if we didn't enjoy ourselves in the journey.
3) Crown Crates - I'm not against Crown Crates. I do believe they're gambling, but they don't need to be just that. If crates, up to a threshold, guaranteed 1 reward of the higher tiers, it would drive sales immensely. E.G. Your first 10 crates are tracked (no more than that...). Within those 10, you are guaranteed 1 legendary, 1 apex, AND 1 radiant apex. After that, it is entirely random. 10 crown crates is a very low barrier to entry, especially knowing they'll get something great. It costs $39.99 for 5500 crowns. (15) crates costs 5k crowns. New crates come every 1-3 months. That's about $13 extra a month to guarantee 3 items with 5 crates to test your luck. I'd pay $25 a month (crowns+sub) to guarantee me a radiant apex every 2 months. This new crown crate system also allows someone to get lucky and possibly receive the 3 guaranteed rewards in a (4) pack. So, you'd have people buying (1), (4), and (15) packs of crates, knowing that there is a finite amount of rewards before it goes full RNG. After that, they can continue to invest if they want other rewards. They would be more willing to participate in that. That is more fair, accommodating, and potentially lucrative than forcing your players to log in every day for Endeavors or having them shell out a lot of money for possibly nothing. Why burn out your players to quit or have them stop buying crowns from lack of reward? Without an intervention to crown crates, I do not see your love of the ESO community as anything more than praising consumerism and enabling dangerous habits.
CONCLUSION: Randomness is out; progression is in. RNG isn't needed anymore to keep us coming back. It's a crutch to fulfillment and denies time well-spent. Exclusivity of rewards might start out with a feeling of excitement, but it quickly devolves into frustration as expectations understandably take root. We begin to question, "Why wasn't I rewarded?" and believe in things like small batch refinement, character-based crown crate luck, and other superstitious practices to justify why we might or might not receive what we want. The associated tediums of charging through this RNG isn't healthy or enjoyable. RNG takes advantage of the philosophical idea of perserverance. Keep going and you will be rewarded or "good things comes to those that wait". After so much disappointment, anything different is a reward. That's a woeful bar to strive for and ESO seems content with it. I hope that ESO opts out of RNG and reaps the benefit of actually giving players what brings them joy. Their High Isle announcement gave so much thanks to players for seeing ESO as a second home. A safe place to go where they could get away from the outside turmoil. But if ESO becomes just as devoid of reward, if our time and money seems to net us nothing, and if progress seems as fickle as the wind, then ESO is no home I, nor any of you, should want to live in.
2) Curate Everything - PvP Set Bags, Chests, Coffers, Motifs, Recipes, and other bags of random gear goodies. These things need curation too. ESO has the chance to be an MMO that guides players to what makes them happy instead of the burden of collection. It made progress with curated drops but it needs to remove RNG entirely. I've been on this hamster wheel for a long time and I'd like to know what it's like to run around outside. By guaranteeing me what I'm looking for, I'll be willing AND HAPPY to put in the time. That is a clear reward. RNG is not a reward system; RNG is gambling time for progression. Imagine you're on your way to work when an accident forces you to take a detour. Then another accident causes another detour. It happens a third time and then finally you get to work. You're frustrated because you left home on time, your car didn't break down because you do maintenance on it, and you knew the fastest route to take. What could have been an enjoyable commute from Point A to B, turned into a hassle that was entirely out of your control. This is RNG. Stop throwing accidents in front of us and let us get to work! Milking gametime out of your players by having them randomly fail or succeed in their goals is not a way to earn our appreciation and it's disrespectful to our time invested in your product, especially if we didn't enjoy ourselves in the journey.
3) Crown Crates - I'm not against Crown Crates. I do believe they're gambling, but they don't need to be just that. If crates, up to a threshold, guaranteed 1 reward of the higher tiers, it would drive sales immensely. E.G. Your first 10 crates are tracked (no more than that...). Within those 10, you are guaranteed 1 legendary, 1 apex, AND 1 radiant apex. After that, it is entirely random. 10 crown crates is a very low barrier to entry, especially knowing they'll get something great. It costs $39.99 for 5500 crowns. (15) crates costs 5k crowns. New crates come every 1-3 months. That's about $13 extra a month to guarantee 3 items with 5 crates to test your luck. I'd pay $25 a month (crowns+sub) to guarantee me a radiant apex every 2 months. This new crown crate system also allows someone to get lucky and possibly receive the 3 guaranteed rewards in a (4) pack. So, you'd have people buying (1), (4), and (15) packs of crates, knowing that there is a finite amount of rewards before it goes full RNG. After that, they can continue to invest if they want other rewards. They would be more willing to participate in that. That is more fair, accommodating, and potentially lucrative than forcing your players to log in every day for Endeavors or having them shell out a lot of money for possibly nothing. Why burn out your players to quit or have them stop buying crowns from lack of reward? Without an intervention to crown crates, I do not see your love of the ESO community as anything more than praising consumerism and enabling dangerous habits.
CONCLUSION: Randomness is out; progression is in. RNG isn't needed anymore to keep us coming back. It's a crutch to fulfillment and denies time well-spent. Exclusivity of rewards might start out with a feeling of excitement, but it quickly devolves into frustration as expectations understandably take root. We begin to question, "Why wasn't I rewarded?" and believe in things like small batch refinement, character-based crown crate luck, and other superstitious practices to justify why we might or might not receive what we want. The associated tediums of charging through this RNG isn't healthy or enjoyable. RNG takes advantage of the philosophical idea of perserverance. Keep going and you will be rewarded or "good things comes to those that wait". After so much disappointment, anything different is a reward. That's a woeful bar to strive for and ESO seems content with it. I hope that ESO opts out of RNG and reaps the benefit of actually giving players what brings them joy. Their High Isle announcement gave so much thanks to players for seeing ESO as a second home. A safe place to go where they could get away from the outside turmoil. But if ESO becomes just as devoid of reward, if our time and money seems to net us nothing, and if progress seems as fickle as the wind, then ESO is no home I, nor any of you, should want to live in.
CATEGORY THREE: The Slow Feedback Loop and Deceptive Engagement Breeds Skepticism, Hopelessness, and Certainly No Trust.
1) Why Give Feedback? - To paraphrase Bilbo Baggins: "And so life in the [Elder Scrolls Online] goes on, much as it has this past [year]. Full of its own comings and goings with change coming slowly, if it comes at all. For things are made to endure in [The Elder Scrolls Online], passing from one generation to the next." I kept that last sentence in because it articulates the beautiful of horizontal progression. A game like World of Warcraft makes each previous expansion irrelevant, forcing players to constantly adapt to entirely new systems and adopt the current treadmill, even when it looks suspiciously like the old one. ESO on the other hand, does change more slowly and it tries to add content in a way that doesn't drastically change everyone's priorities. I like that idea of player's saying, "I'll get to it when I want to get to it." It doesn't however, do well with listening to player feedback. As if the team is saying, "We'll get to it if and when we get to it." One part pride and one part excruciatingly slow design, ESO is often met with a landslide of suggestions because players can't understand why they haven't already been implemented: frost dps improvements, summoned pet customization, spell customization, morph variety, buff/debuff variety, expanding the meta, Cyrodiil, different events, etc. Largely, players feel ignored. And sadly, players jump for joy when a ZOS_[name] says "we're forwarding your comment to the dev team" without realizing the little chance we'll see that suggestion anytime soon, if at all. I've never understood that if a company was actively making a product for consumers and those consumers asked for a certain feature why that company would refuse to add it. It will only bring good favor. And even using my wallet to speak, I don't think my voice is being heard. Hence the pride: developers want to express their creativity too. I get that. Only they take forever to realize it can be done within the scope of what players are asking for, like how Rich Lambert always wanted a CCG in ESO, but had to wait until players asked for something where it could be implemented. Is the dev team waiting for us to ask for what THEY WANT to implement? Or are we waiting for what WE WANT? I love that ESO's horizontal progression tries to say, "Nothing gets left behind". Unfortunately, so much old content is STILL abandoned and improvements are continuously slow to come.
2) Transparency - It is so difficult getting details on what's happening with ESO. It took Rich Lambert's wife insulting the entire ESO PvP Community before we got a lot of transparency on how PvP was coming along. Even High Isle's announcement was riddled with oqaqueness on its main feature. We know almost nothing about the Tales of Tribute system unlike last year's reveal telling us absolutely everything involved with companions. Also in Blackwood's Preview Event, they claimed ESO had 18 million players. In High Isle's Preview Event, the number was 20 million. 2 million added in 1 year? What is considered a "player"? Is it simply characters created? Even on the PTS? Even if deleted? If I am to believe this game is packed full of players, all contributing in some way to ZOS's bottomline, why then does it seem we receive updates in size and quality as a development crew of a couple dozen people? Especially when the Gates of Oblivion Reveal Event said the ZOS team was growing so large it needed a new space! Was the team's growth not designated for ESO despite appearing in ESO marketing material? Is the exaggeration of these numbers being used to mollify our concerns of popularity and focus? Couple this with people saying chapters have been getting smaller in content and scope each year and I really don't understand the state of this game. I understand COVID throws a wrench into morale, productivity, and meaningful feedback. Is that truly the cause of why this game is doing less and less with its talented faculty? I've read the "Studio Director's Letter: 2021 Retrospective" and know the struggles ZOS has faced. I sympathize with that. I also sympathize with asking for more time to deliver quality goods (because I own a restaurant and would rather a customer adore the food they receive 10min late, than hate the food they receive on time). Why aren't you asking players to wait 3 more months for an exciting chapter full of new stuff? Don't charge the same price for less because that's part of your release schedule! You determined it, so change it if needed! Why aren't you giving monthly reports on what you're working on and the struggles you're facing? Players are not connecting with the sanitized, safe PR posts. Give us the sad details so we can relate. If this community truly is as amazing as you say it is, everyone will understand. If transparency exists somewhere with ZOS and ESO, it must hiding in other media channels and no one should have to dig for it. That's no way to treat the community that Matt Frior says "Without you, there is no Elder Scrolls Online, and we start each and every day at work with this in mind." Prove it.
CONCLUSION: I feel uneasy about how ESO advertises its success and community involvement. Bloated player count, repeating the same "ESO is a great Elder Scrolls game" comment to instill nostalgia for our favorite TES game, and revealing few details for upcoming changes, really shows the colors of the folks trying to get you to pay up big for little value. The most I see from the community team is editing posts, chiming in that forum rules are being broken, and starting feedback threads with little engagement unless people claim the thread is pointless. Being left in the dark, not feeling heard, and not seeing our feedback directly applied, makes me see ZOS and the team behind ESO as yet another game company taking advantage of its player base. If ESO is actually a small game with a small team, I can better understand feeling this destitute. But it claims to be this astounding, immeasurable game in Elder Scrolls history and for Zenimax. I just don't see it. And I don't like being told a game is bigger and better than it actually is.
2) Transparency - It is so difficult getting details on what's happening with ESO. It took Rich Lambert's wife insulting the entire ESO PvP Community before we got a lot of transparency on how PvP was coming along. Even High Isle's announcement was riddled with oqaqueness on its main feature. We know almost nothing about the Tales of Tribute system unlike last year's reveal telling us absolutely everything involved with companions. Also in Blackwood's Preview Event, they claimed ESO had 18 million players. In High Isle's Preview Event, the number was 20 million. 2 million added in 1 year? What is considered a "player"? Is it simply characters created? Even on the PTS? Even if deleted? If I am to believe this game is packed full of players, all contributing in some way to ZOS's bottomline, why then does it seem we receive updates in size and quality as a development crew of a couple dozen people? Especially when the Gates of Oblivion Reveal Event said the ZOS team was growing so large it needed a new space! Was the team's growth not designated for ESO despite appearing in ESO marketing material? Is the exaggeration of these numbers being used to mollify our concerns of popularity and focus? Couple this with people saying chapters have been getting smaller in content and scope each year and I really don't understand the state of this game. I understand COVID throws a wrench into morale, productivity, and meaningful feedback. Is that truly the cause of why this game is doing less and less with its talented faculty? I've read the "Studio Director's Letter: 2021 Retrospective" and know the struggles ZOS has faced. I sympathize with that. I also sympathize with asking for more time to deliver quality goods (because I own a restaurant and would rather a customer adore the food they receive 10min late, than hate the food they receive on time). Why aren't you asking players to wait 3 more months for an exciting chapter full of new stuff? Don't charge the same price for less because that's part of your release schedule! You determined it, so change it if needed! Why aren't you giving monthly reports on what you're working on and the struggles you're facing? Players are not connecting with the sanitized, safe PR posts. Give us the sad details so we can relate. If this community truly is as amazing as you say it is, everyone will understand. If transparency exists somewhere with ZOS and ESO, it must hiding in other media channels and no one should have to dig for it. That's no way to treat the community that Matt Frior says "Without you, there is no Elder Scrolls Online, and we start each and every day at work with this in mind." Prove it.
CONCLUSION: I feel uneasy about how ESO advertises its success and community involvement. Bloated player count, repeating the same "ESO is a great Elder Scrolls game" comment to instill nostalgia for our favorite TES game, and revealing few details for upcoming changes, really shows the colors of the folks trying to get you to pay up big for little value. The most I see from the community team is editing posts, chiming in that forum rules are being broken, and starting feedback threads with little engagement unless people claim the thread is pointless. Being left in the dark, not feeling heard, and not seeing our feedback directly applied, makes me see ZOS and the team behind ESO as yet another game company taking advantage of its player base. If ESO is actually a small game with a small team, I can better understand feeling this destitute. But it claims to be this astounding, immeasurable game in Elder Scrolls history and for Zenimax. I just don't see it. And I don't like being told a game is bigger and better than it actually is.
THE TAKEAWAY:
Finding proof of these feelings gives me a new perspective on ESO. It appears to be a game ran by people that stretch promises, stretch truths, and sour relationships by building up what it can't deliver. The community of players, however, really is better than I've experienced in other games. But that is better explained by the casual and theme park attraction that these kind individuals follow than the quality of this game itself. ESO needs to pump the breaks on what it is capable of doing. It needs to be more honest and open with its players. It needs to focus on caliber of content more than quantity of content. It needs to temper repetition and end recycled concepts (hooray for Fissures, a.k.a. Dolmen v5.0...) and branch outside of the box. And it needs to introduce fun, varied activities. Inherently fun, self-motivated activities, based within the game, not simply player-driven.
It doesn't take much to make something fun:
Make Scrying zone-specific with dynamic and expanded content as a relaxing minigame to get lost in.
Have achievement points unlock rewards--I'm tired of this, "Look, your number is bigger!" empty incentive...
Make every memento have a unique effect (like how Fetish of Anger adds fire damage) to warrant acquisition and use, otherwise it's a glorified emote...
Introduce unique battleground modes like "Light Armor Only" or "No Weapons" or "No Proc" for bonus AP.
Develop more communal effort activities instead of purely solo or group.
Add a difficulty slider/option for overland.
Add a leaderboard tier difficulty to dungeons that intensies that dungeon's mechanics--basically, something so irregular that a single build couldn't exist in every scenario (inspired by World of Warcraft's Mythic+ system).
Implement Spellcrafting as it was originally intended in 2014 while filling current combat utility gaps.
Make Stables actually carry the mounts that it showcases around them... You know, like Guars in Vvardenfell? Why do they carry only horses when I only see Guars?! And have some sort of gold sink related to mounts, like a roaming Golden Vendor (like, they literally ride around on a mount) but for a unique mount or different appearances for Mount/Speed/Stamina adornments that rotate with each stable location in the game. Fashionable Mounts? Take my gold!
The most fun I've had (and continue to have) in this game:
Overcoming difficult content as a team--even better when it's different each time.
Visiting another player's house--I love when someone is creative or has an obstacle course!
Gathering--just relaxing with visible progress.
Arenas (solo and group)--because I like beating my own standards and a team of 4 is more personal than 12.
Scrying--I really like figuring out how to net the 3 bonus items in a digsite that's never the same twice.
Crafting Builds--because 'I' made myself powerful, not RNG.
Evenly-matched battlegrounds where there's no lag (rare).
Justice System--the dynamic nature really excites gametime pacing.
Imperial City Sewers--because it feels like a horror game.
Hunting dragons--since it's the only dynamic world event we got.
It doesn't take much to make something fun:
Make Scrying zone-specific with dynamic and expanded content as a relaxing minigame to get lost in.
Have achievement points unlock rewards--I'm tired of this, "Look, your number is bigger!" empty incentive...
Make every memento have a unique effect (like how Fetish of Anger adds fire damage) to warrant acquisition and use, otherwise it's a glorified emote...
Introduce unique battleground modes like "Light Armor Only" or "No Weapons" or "No Proc" for bonus AP.
Develop more communal effort activities instead of purely solo or group.
Add a difficulty slider/option for overland.
Add a leaderboard tier difficulty to dungeons that intensies that dungeon's mechanics--basically, something so irregular that a single build couldn't exist in every scenario (inspired by World of Warcraft's Mythic+ system).
Implement Spellcrafting as it was originally intended in 2014 while filling current combat utility gaps.
Make Stables actually carry the mounts that it showcases around them... You know, like Guars in Vvardenfell? Why do they carry only horses when I only see Guars?! And have some sort of gold sink related to mounts, like a roaming Golden Vendor (like, they literally ride around on a mount) but for a unique mount or different appearances for Mount/Speed/Stamina adornments that rotate with each stable location in the game. Fashionable Mounts? Take my gold!
The most fun I've had (and continue to have) in this game:
Overcoming difficult content as a team--even better when it's different each time.
Visiting another player's house--I love when someone is creative or has an obstacle course!
Gathering--just relaxing with visible progress.
Arenas (solo and group)--because I like beating my own standards and a team of 4 is more personal than 12.
Scrying--I really like figuring out how to net the 3 bonus items in a digsite that's never the same twice.
Crafting Builds--because 'I' made myself powerful, not RNG.
Evenly-matched battlegrounds where there's no lag (rare).
Justice System--the dynamic nature really excites gametime pacing.
Imperial City Sewers--because it feels like a horror game.
Hunting dragons--since it's the only dynamic world event we got.
That's all I have to say. I hope ESO improves at a pace acceptable to each player. I believe the game is still relatively young and capable of making a shift in direction, but it needs to take heart to that. Players are more keenly aware of exploitation now and have no qualms moving to different entertainment, never to look back. I took one week to write this post and didn't play at all during that time. I actually started to get excited to jump in and do things again and I didn't worry about the grinds or dailies, no matter how much gold or stuff I missed. Don't commend that break, though. It just translates to rebuilding tolerance for disappointing design that I wish I could avoid while playing. I want my few hours a day to feel well-spent. I hope the team has the same goal. I look forward to where ESO goes in 2022. May the years I've already spent in the game continue to grow with my then newfound enthusiasm.
31
-
phaneub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like testing new builds no matter how stupid they appear. I try to use every single ability and morphs, if it fits the build its going in no matter how dumb it may seem. I don't pvp or do trials, I rarely do dungeons with other players so its mostly a solo experience. I don't care about my damage output as long as stuff is dying at a reasonable pace, I consider that a success. I don't just collect sets, I use them in my experimental builds trying to find new ways to make use of them in different ways. As an altoholic with 18 characters I can do that making everyone as different as possible when possible.
For me the fun is not in the content provided, but what content I can create within the given space. You can say 90% of the sets in this game are useless, that's true for end game stuff like trials and competitive pvp, but if you open your windows to other experiences just goofing around, finding creative uses and combos then they don't have to be.7 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sometimes it helps to take a break, to step away, when the game (or anything in life) seems to be getting to you.
I went through most of what you wrote. While a point-by-point could be done, it wouldn't be a good use of my time, nor would it help you. The first line of my post is the best advice I can suggest.22 -
Eormenric✭✭✭phaneub17_ESO wrote: »I like testing new builds no matter how stupid they appear. I try to use every single ability and morphs, if it fits the build its going in no matter how dumb it may seem. I don't pvp or do trials, I rarely do dungeons with other players so its mostly a solo experience. I don't care about my damage output as long as stuff is dying at a reasonable pace, I consider that a success. I don't just collect sets, I use them in my experimental builds trying to find new ways to make use of them in different ways. As an altoholic with 18 characters I can do that making everyone as different as possible when possible.
For me the fun is not in the content provided, but what content I can create within the given space. You can say 90% of the sets in this game are useless, that's true for end game stuff like trials and competitive pvp, but if you open your windows to other experiences just goofing around, finding creative uses and combos then they don't have to be.
First, I'm curious what your comment is in line with considering you're pro-alt addiction and I already said that I too enjoy making builds--also with what I have lying around or have access/willingness to acquire.
I have scrolled through the 500 armor sets and list of available abilities often, looking to make the very niche builds you so describe. It often hurts my brain and pushes out other important things like turning off the oven in my kitchen before dinner burns. I do not for a second believe, though, that these sets exist for us as players to find use. Any set can be found a use. Even Ranger's Gait, Dragon's Appetite, Senchal Defender, and Nikulas' Heavy Armor. It's not a triumph to say, "I succeed in this exact scenario due to this set." because absolute failure at every other encounter proves the set is too niche, especially so when whatever you're countering could either be ignored or dealt with more easily. The excessive armor set count is simply getting away from the developer's. Occasionally, they revisit a set that is talked about enough and change it--usually because it becomes completely irrelevant. Like Crusader (originally "Increases the duration of the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds."). And still, people said, "Hey! Why did you change Crusader?! You ruined my niche build!"
It could be viewed that with the release of companions, antiquities that are largely interacted with alone, and a CCG that can be done as a solo experience, alongside such an alt-involved gameplay loop, that you are the kind of player for which ESO is being built now--the lone person content with their own experiments without prejudice of performance from outside commenters. If ESO becomes a MSPORPG (Massively Single Player Online Role-Playing Game), that wouldn't work for me as half of my enjoyment comes from mingling with and receiving feedback from others. For me, that's the only way to gain new perspectives and grow as both a player and a person. I believe 2022 will help define what players ESO prefers to manage.Sometimes it helps to take a break, to step away, when the game (or anything in life) seems to be getting to you.
I went through most of what you wrote. While a point-by-point could be done, it wouldn't be a good use of my time, nor would it help you. The first line of my post is the best advice I can suggest.
Since you didn't read all of what I wrote, I'm afraid you're commenting with the wrong context. I'm not looking for help or advice. I'm looking to discuss how ESO's available content, gameplay loops, marketing, social engagement, and overall entertainment design, affects our way of thinking. Again, taking a break is just to rebuild tolerance if things won't change. In life, your tolerance might always need to be managed due to things relatively out of your control. While you could view the development of a game out of one's control, it is still a product being marketed to consumers--consumers the company wants to make happy so the product continues to be purchased. My thread is a journey of how I came to feel how I do about ESO after years of seeing the same things presented to me as a player. I might not be alone in that journey and I behoove the developers to adjust the game's course from how it has operated these past 3 years with Elsweyr (being well-received), Greymoor (being less-received), Blackwood (being even less-received), and into High Isle (already on a bad foot).Edited by Eormenric on February 14, 2022 7:11PM3 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭
[snip]
[snip]While a point-by-point could be done, it wouldn't be a good use of my time, nor would it help you.
Unfortunately, your response is what I expected, and why I didn't go into any further detail on my first post.
For the record, my suggestion still stands. You may not appreciate the why of what I said, but I do mean it sincerely.
[edited for mild bait & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 14, 2022 11:37AM4 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭Alas, I fear that the nature of ESO will not change. It is supposed to induce FOMO, hook us on 'achievements', 'rewards'.
I remember one particular question in a pre-Greymoor survey, to which I was supposed to answer how much I agree or disagree with it.
I play games to feel I have achieved something.
This has got me immediately thinking - does it mean that one who asnwers 'yes' hasn't achieved much, if anything, in his/her life? Sure, if one is a teen, this I can understand, but there are people of various age.
It's easier to achieve a vet than to grind at work, because maybe you'll get a payrise OR you will be appreciated, noticed, etc. It's also easier to play a game rather than to devote your time to family, friends, life's challenges, etc.
@Eormenric Have a break, as _Zathras_ rightfully suggested.2 -
RemanCyrodiil_I✭✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »Have a break, as _Zathras_ rightfully suggested.
Taking a break would achieve nothing. I thought it was particularly revealing in a recent French High Isle interview that Matt Firor revealed from the 08:20 mark that it's now a deliberate policy to focus on horizontal progression as with antiquities, companions and now the card came, i.e. "giving players more things to do when they log in", rather than "new or deeper" vertical progression systems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqU7KjfGNsw
In plain English, for the foreseeable future - regardless of the pandemic - ZOS will just be adding in more shallow systems with mindless grind that most players will be bored with a month or so after each chapter launch.
I've consciously stopped doing dailies, events and as many writs because the activities and most of the rewards are just no longer worth it.4 -
Mushroomancer✭✭✭✭Just read this, and it's a massive post that I'm still processing, so apologies if I get something wrong.
Overall, I would tend to agree with most of what you said when it comes to the issues ESO has going on right now. I also really like the "Trial tokens" and "Curated crate drops" suggestions.
To me, right now, the biggest problem is the lack of proper intrinsic motivation to play the game, it's genuinely almost completely extrinsic, and it's miserable. The only thing that's keeping me from completely deleting this game from my life right now is the fact that I enjoy playing with my party (and most of them feel this way too), as they are all awesome people, but that has little to nothing to do with the game, ESO just so happens to be the game through which we met, and the only one all of us play.
I also feel like I am not the only one. A lot of endgame players are getting mad at a change like account-wide achievements because, according to them, it kills replayability, and I have pointed out a couple of times that, in my opinion, all it's doing is highlighting the fact that many who are complaining about it (not considering people who are doing so for RP or technical reasons) most likely are not enjoying the game for what it is anymore, and are just clinging to an arbitrary reward system, which ultimately means nothing, outside of the meager and mediocre rewards it provides, and all because the game is incredibly stale, and its endgame not enjoyable on a long-term basis without these incentives.
Of course, I can't read people's minds, so maybe I am in the wrong and a lot of them genuinely enjoy playing the game, but if taking away your ability to attain the same title multiple times is all it takes for you to stop playing, I think that says a lot.
The part about transparency resonated quite a bit with me. You were really able to put into words what I think the main problem with communication is. To me it really does feel like we are being lied to our faces on a daily basis, except when it comes to the latest CS exclusive, that always comes out right on time with no issues or hiccups in sight (gotta feed that FOMO). Honestly I have gotten to a point where my baseline with the way ZOS communicates is that [snip], and that what we'll get will, without fail, be much more disappointing than what was advertised.
Also, the numbers they spit out every year are so bloated that they don't even have a point. Why don't they tell us how many active players are present in ESO? Who cares about the number of accounts that were created, if 90% of them are made by some rando downloading the game, playing it for 5 minutes and then getting bored, or even worse, they are a legion of mindless bots farming Bleakrock and Khenarti's Roost to extinction. Of course the reason is that those numbers are meant to impress investors, which is understandable, but doesn't make it less of a lie. By the way, Steamcharts hangs around 20k to 30k concurrent players, and I would think they make up at least 10% of the playerbase, and that's a very conservative estimate, so pretty [snip] far from 20 million players. [snip]
Also when it comes to the ever-shrinking scope of chapters and their features, I just cannot take them at their word anymore. [snip]
Speaking of which, what the hell are the team's intentions with the game? [snip] Meanwhile endgame PvE is stale [snip], PvP has been bleeding its guts out on the floor for what feels like forever now, and each and every year we get less and less crap to sift through in order to, hopefully, find some diamonds.
Sorry for the rambling, but I kinda felt the need to get that off my chest, this game has been a really disappointing experience in the last year or so, and the burnout is real. [snip]
That "little" tangent aside, here's the two suggestions I don't fully agree on:- Reducing the number of sets: I think this surely one of the ways to go about making sets less of a bloated mess. However, I think that might be too radical of a move. I think the best way would be to rework as many sets as possible to fill each niche playstyle the community can think of, and then have the ones that are left out just include interesting visuals, effects, or gimmicks, just to make them interesting, and at least make overland a bit more diverse. This would take a very long time to implement, of course, especially compared to brutally deleting a bunch of sets, and I don't trust ZOS with even being able to begin work on such an endeavor, but it would be at least interesting to see.
- Spell Crafting: as much as this is still a cool idea, I see genuinely no way for ZOS to implement it in a way that is neither broken nor completely pointless. And I say pointless because the best options for whatever way they would implement it will inevitably be calculated, and I don't think it would take very long either. At that point might as well make a new skill-line and call it a day.
Again, sorry for the rambling, I'm very tired and sleep-deprived, and I'm gonna try to go to sleep now, hoping that the almighty forum mods don't snip all of this into an even more unreadable mess than what it is.
[edited for bashing, baiting & profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 14, 2022 11:51AMPC | EU 1600+ CP
Chews-On-Shrooms - Argonian (EP) | Healer WardenI know I have a problem, leave me alone:Grand Master Crafter, All Dungeon HM up to Stonethorn, vCrag HM, vDSA, vMA, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vHOF HM, vAS+2, Gryphon Heart, vBRP, vSS HM (Extinguisher of Flames),
Nirya Urayel - Altmer (EP) | Healer/Magicka Templar
Ulen Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Nightblade
Anise Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Dragonknight
Vivienne Rielle - Breton (EP) | Hybrid Healer/Magicka Necromancer
Gaspar Rielle - Breton (DC) | Magicka Sorcerer
Ulfgar the Foul - Nord (EP) | Tank Necromancer
Plays-With-Chains - Argonian (EP) | Tank Dragonknight
Sonje the Wild - Nord (EP) | Tank Warden
Brutus Lovidicus - Imperial (EP) | Tank Nightblade
Velms Ienith - Dunmer (EP) | Tank Sorcerer
Cassius Lanius - Imperial (EP) | Tank/Stamina Templar
Shakar-gro-Khazgur - Orc (DC) | Stamina Dragonknight
Liette Nightwind - Bosmer (AD) | Stamina Nightblade
Ja'khar the Salty - Khajiit (EP) | Stamina Necromancer
Saadia al-Tava - Redguard (EP) | Stamina Sorcerer
Gwinas Hemp-Burner - Bosmer (EP) | Stamina Warden
vKA HM (Shield of the North), vRG 1/3HM3 -
Mushroomancer✭✭✭✭RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Drammanoth wrote: »Have a break, as _Zathras_ rightfully suggested.
Taking a break would achieve nothing. I thought it was particularly revealing in a recent French High Isle interview that Matt Firor revealed from the 08:20 mark that it's now a deliberate policy to focus on horizontal progression as with antiquities, companions and now the card came, i.e. "giving players more things to do when they log in", rather than "new or deeper" vertical progression systems.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqU7KjfGNsw
In plain English, for the foreseeable future - regardless of the pandemic - ZOS will just be adding in more shallow systems with mindless grind that most players will be bored with a month or so after each chapter launch.
I've consciously stopped doing dailies, events and as many writs because the activities and most of the rewards are just no longer worth it.
Oh wow, I completely missed this. Well, guess it will be time to swap to FF14 after we clear June's new trial. What a waste of time.PC | EU 1600+ CP
Chews-On-Shrooms - Argonian (EP) | Healer WardenI know I have a problem, leave me alone:Grand Master Crafter, All Dungeon HM up to Stonethorn, vCrag HM, vDSA, vMA, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vHOF HM, vAS+2, Gryphon Heart, vBRP, vSS HM (Extinguisher of Flames),
Nirya Urayel - Altmer (EP) | Healer/Magicka Templar
Ulen Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Nightblade
Anise Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Dragonknight
Vivienne Rielle - Breton (EP) | Hybrid Healer/Magicka Necromancer
Gaspar Rielle - Breton (DC) | Magicka Sorcerer
Ulfgar the Foul - Nord (EP) | Tank Necromancer
Plays-With-Chains - Argonian (EP) | Tank Dragonknight
Sonje the Wild - Nord (EP) | Tank Warden
Brutus Lovidicus - Imperial (EP) | Tank Nightblade
Velms Ienith - Dunmer (EP) | Tank Sorcerer
Cassius Lanius - Imperial (EP) | Tank/Stamina Templar
Shakar-gro-Khazgur - Orc (DC) | Stamina Dragonknight
Liette Nightwind - Bosmer (AD) | Stamina Nightblade
Ja'khar the Salty - Khajiit (EP) | Stamina Necromancer
Saadia al-Tava - Redguard (EP) | Stamina Sorcerer
Gwinas Hemp-Burner - Bosmer (EP) | Stamina Warden
vKA HM (Shield of the North), vRG 1/3HM1 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I just don’t care about what I am ‘supposed’ to do when I log in.
I log in because I consciously choose to do so; if I don’t want to play, I won’t. It really is that simple.
And when I do play, I enjoy having a wide array of things to do. I just do what I like, what I find fun, and that’s it. Sometimes that may be doing dailies in one area, or doing the MQ in another, or filling in gaps in my alts map, or writs, or surveys, or vet dungeons & trials, or pvp. If I find something getting tedious, I’ll either change character or take a break.
I fear a lot of my enjoyment will be lost with the next patch, and I really wonder what ‘vision’ staff & devs actually have for this game, as it seems a bit haphazard & out of focus at the moment.16 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think much of one's view of the game is based on perspective and objectives. My perspective is to only do stuff that's fun - and I finds lots of fun stuff to do in ESO. My objective is to immerse into the solo pve sandbox that ESO fully provides. Frankly, I think I prefer what Matt seems to call 'horizontal' over 'vertical' progression. The game is so darn big with so darn much to do that I think my elf will call it home for quite some time to come.
PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo3 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is some good food for thought.
I do sympathise with the FOMO this game induces, and have become a bit jaded with how the player base is "handled" by Zenimax. I know it's a business and we're customers, but the language and hype feels disconnected from the actual content. We're not all singing by the campfire as one. There's a lot to of fun to be made in this game, and I often find it's when you ignore what's being sold to you and do your own thing.
I'd rather hear concrete plans and information about improvements, than rally cries about player numbers and content producers upselling through twitch.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)3 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭One thing I would say:
With regards to daily quests, and with regards to "collectable" things like the number of outfits in the sticker book:
The more of them there are, the easier they need to be to get.
In particular, with dungeon and trial loot, we need to (a) make the loot from chests all be "curated", as well, and (b) remove the restrictions on which bosses can drop which type of loot, which force only the final boss to be able to drop a weapon or jewelry item (1 out of 45 per dungeon), whereas all the SEVERAL other bosses can drop only armor items (4-5 out of 21 possible per dungeon). Asking for 45 runs of each and every single dungeon is simply too much: even the current "curated loot" simply does not go far enough.
Overland loot does not have this problem, because of the fact of multiple Public Dungeon bosses or World bosses.1 -
Eormenric✭✭✭Thanks for everyone's comments so far! I'm glad to read them, whether positive or negative. I wish I could say more in response to them, but I will at least say this:
@Drammanoth I meant to respond to @_Zathras_, but I'll try and catch you both with your comments of "taking a break". First, as @RemanCyrodiil_I points out, taking a break would achieve nothing. To expand on that, I understand the two of you are trying to be sincere in the only way you know how, but please consider this perspective: "Taking a break" is not only attempting to invalidate every concern I have listed--which I have no idea how much of the post either of you read--it also gives a free pass for ZOS to continue with these practices that increasingly damage how we view entertainment, ourselves, and our community. And if you 'did' read everything and still feel taking a break is the right step, you are advising a non-confrontational approach, letting something negative continue. Regardless of what you use ESO for, you need to acknowledge that other people can raise alarms and it not take away from your experience of the game. Things should not be black and white. I want ESO to improve. That's partly why I made this post. The other was awareness of how ESO is being built. I too used to login like a robot and do what I thought I was supposed to do. I do that no longer, but the game still needs work beyond my own personal interventions.
@RemanCyrodiil_I Thanks for sharing the video. Not sure where that came from, but I don't see it on the main website or currently on the forums. Again, we have to dig for frequent updates, which is disappointing.
@Mushroomancer I agree with your comment on the sad battle account-wide achievements opponents are fighting just to continue earning an empty reward because it gives some reason to continue in this stale environment, like they have no other choice but to participate.
Thanks for looking up Steam's concurrent players. I would agree with that 10% estimate. Big numbers have always been the flame that attracts the moths, but this bloat truly is outlandish.
And never apologize for rambling. You needed to let this out. Lots of people do. I really hope ZOS developers, community leaders, and management looks at this kind of thread and have an honest moment of reflection on how they're presenting themselves. If they're proud of that image, then this might not be a game for me in the months to come.
Thanks for seeing why "taking a break" is no solution at all. I hope the people suggesting it learn why action is better than submission.
@SerafinaWaterstar I too flock wherever my interests take me. I listed what I always find fun because, well, I always find it fun. I hope no one advises me to only do those things as I would like to find all of the game fun. It's not an impossible goal!
@AcadianPaladin What are the sorts of things you find intrisically fun? Would you do them all without a reward in their current state? Do they allow you to make your own personal achievements? No doubt these things exist to each their own.
@BahometZ Agreed. There's all this oomph talk for what equates to a candle. I'd be more on board with a Review Event that said, "Every day, tens of thousands of you log in and find new ways to invent fun activities and we love building places and systems for you to do just that."
@jle30303 I think their reasoning behind final bosses dropping the most sought after pieces is so that people don't just drop midway through because they got the gear they needed. I think that's okay. I agree with you on chests (and, as I already said in the post, Coffers) being curated so that weapons and jewelry can pile up near the end of the dungeon/trial. But this whole one weapon at a time and random grab bag is not okay.Edited by Eormenric on February 14, 2022 7:13PM2 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭What are your ideas for new game modes?I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »What are your ideas for new game modes?
For battlegrounds? It wouldn't be anything that hasn't already been suggested. People have wanted queues for 1v1 and 2v2 deathmatch for awhile. I said wacky battlemodes could exist as well like Light Armor Only, or really anything that first checks your gear, skills, CP, etc.
If you watch the video posted about Matt Firor's interview for High Isle and beyond, you'll learn that they have no immediate plans to expand BGs. I think that will disappoint the already down and out PvPers. So PvP will remain the exact same for at least a year. My prediction is that Cyrodiil will either end or break up and no longer be what it is by 2023 (due to a lore-related event of the 3 alliances coming together) because the server architecture just can't handle it effectively. Time will tell.0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I want different rewards then motifs for quests.
I would like to see different types of potions offered so we can used more then idk 5 potuons in entire game
It would also bring the costs of alchemy in line0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Category 3: Why give feedback?
I think it's worth noting that players are delighted when their idea or concern gets escalated to "Hey, we'll mention this to the Devs" because most ideas/concerns never get that far.
Sure, most ideas that've made it to "Tier 2" won't make it out of "Tier 2". But that's a whole lot better than the multitude of ideas sitting in Tier 1 that've never even gotten looked at by the Devs as far as we know.
There's actually a lot of ideas that have been suggested and made it all the way to the game. Aside from the much maligned card game, Battlegrounds, Jewelry Crafting, Necromancers, and Companions were all heavily requested features that eventually became Chapter features. There's loads more examples - I can list more if need be.
It is worth giving feedback when you like or dislike an idea brought up in the forums. The Devs do pay attention and implement some ideas, and you really don't want to be in the boat of complaining about it after the Devs have made up their minds to do it (see: account-wide achievements.)2 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hmm. I'm personally not seeing "growing psychological detriments". It's a game. I play it for fun. As long as it's fun, I'll continue to play it. And pay an annual sub on 2 accounts.6 -
Chips_Ahoy✭✭✭✭✭I don't do anything you write in category one and I don't feel regret or that ZOS penalized me.
It's just a game, why should I give it more importance than it is?
The day a video game cause me a sensation of regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless and frustration, I will stop playing video games forever.Edited by Chips_Ahoy on February 14, 2022 4:21AM6 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chips_Ahoy wrote: »I don't do anything you write in category one and I don't feel regret or that ZOS penalized me.
It's just a game, why should I give it more importance than it is?
The day a video game cause me a sensation of regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless and frustration, I will stop playing video games forever.
Well.... I already did drop two MMOs cold - WoW (played from 2006 - 2013) and RIFT (played from 2013 - 2016) because they just weren't fun any more at those "quit points".
ESO is fun for me. When it isn't, be sure I'll drop it cold the way I did the previous 2 MMOs.2 -
I'm not really convinced that there's a fix for MMOs longterm. They are incentivized to keep players playing indefinitely, especially the ones willing to spend money, and they will employ any and all tactics necessary to achieve that. This includes "good" practices like more content, new things to do, etc. etc., and "bad" practices like FOMO, grinds, gambling, etc. etc.
Whether or not it's going to be a good experience or a bad experience for you long-term is going to depend on what kind of player you are, and why you play games. I strongly believe that people who are especially at risk of being taken advantage of by FOMO and limited time offers for things they don't even want --- especially collectionists --- to stick to single player games for that reason. Although even then, single player games are starting to have to deal with ridiculous amounts of "DLC."
Personally, I think each person should reassess at regular intervals and figure out whether or not they are still having fun playing a game. I had a lot of fun playing ESO, for a long time, too! And I stopped when I realized I wasn't having fun anymore. Some day, if I feel like playing again, now that the habit is broken and I don't even know what it is that I've missed out on, I can determine whether or not the game is genuinely fun from a fresh start if and when I feel like it.4 -
I needed to understand why I was losing interest in ESO and feeling worse to login and play than if I just ignored the game. I started compiling a list of things that were making me feel a certain way: regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless, and frustrated.
My history is that I've played ESO since beta, having before played WoW and Runescape for a number of years alongside trying other MMOs and console games. I currently play ESO about 2-5 hours per day. What I've noticed is the same sets of activities and approaches for several years now. The following content proves damaging to my own and I think others' mindset when interacting with the game.
Snipped a lot, but this is in response to the entire post.
Why do you feel like you are missing out if there are 70 daily quests, or 3 endeavors, or any other daily limit... and you don't reach that limit? Why do you feel like just because there are 500 armor sets, that you have to collect them all? If you enjoy doing it, sure. If you like having that long-term goal and it brings you joy, why not? But the very existence of this goal causes you to be unhappy, I think that's a problem.
Just because it is there, it doesn't mean you have to do it, or that you are expected to do it, or that you are missing something just because you don't.
I technically have time to get a part-time job and work 60 hours a week if I wanted to. I have a limit of 24 hours a day, sure, but I could absolutely optimize this for whatever "goals" life caps on me. I could probably even manage another full time job if the schedule was right. I could try to start a business in my off-hours. By not doing that just because I can, am I missing out on making money? Am I wasting my time just because I'm not doing this?
While I recognize that FOMO exists and that all companies trying to sell you things, not just MMOs, are trying to capitalize on this, I think that some of this responsibility does rest on the person.CONCLUSION: While it is up to the player to decide how to spend their day, the game's offering of content influences that decision by directly or indirectly penalizing players that don't engage in as much content as possible.
I don't feel that this is a penalty. This is an all or nothing mentality that FOMO is encouraging to be sure, but it is entirely possible to enjoy playing without feeling like you need everything, and without being upset if you miss a random reward. I strongly believe that when these types of complaints come up, it is because players have exhausted the game and should have moved onto something else a long, long time ago.
Games have lifespans, and that's okay. You can always come back when it's gotten old. I replay old games all of the time, and it's even more fun getting a chance to come back to something.
If you are unable to take a step back from a game even when you feel worse playing it, that may be a sign that you are using it to fulfill needs that aren't being fulfilled elsewhere. That's perfectly fine if the game isn't causing you harm, but if it is the case, I think that it is a good idea to try to reflect on why that is and what other activities you could be doing that would fill those needs that don't cause you to be unhappy in the process.
7 -
Eormenric✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Chips_Ahoy wrote: »I don't do anything you write in category one and I don't feel regret or that ZOS penalized me.
It's just a game, why should I give it more importance than it is?
The day a video game cause me a sensation of regretful, overwhelmed, skeptical, hopeless and frustration, I will stop playing video games forever.
Well.... I already did drop two MMOs cold - WoW (played from 2006 - 2013) and RIFT (played from 2013 - 2016) because they just weren't fun any more at those "quit points".
ESO is fun for me. When it isn't, be sure I'll drop it cold the way I did the previous 2 MMOs.
The subjectivity of fun makes it a difficult word to use without more context. By intrinsic fun, I ask if this is an activity one would enjoy doing without receiving a reward for it. Is it engaging? Are you challenged by it? Or are you able to set your own goals for it? Etc. For example, if you like shooting hoops because you want to always make a swish, you've set your own goal and experience delight or frustration along the way with each shot. But if everyday you went to shoot hoops, someone said, "Hey, I'll give you $10 for every swish you make." Suddenly a reward is involved. This changes how you view the activity. Now there's money on the line. Every swish feels that much nicer, but every miss feels that much more frustrating. Substitute shooting hoops with, say, trials and substitute money with gear, gold, and motifs. Your first thought might be, "Well, it's a videogame. Of course it's always going to reward me with gear, gold, and motifs." But what if the gear isn't what you want? What if the gold isn't enough? What if the motif is one you already have and isn't worth much? And let's say you just spent 2 hours in this trial when it should have taken 1 hour. Are you feeling fun yet? Have you never experienced a negative emotion when playing? This is the importance of entertainment and it should not be taken lightly, though you're free to assign priority as you see fit.
If you cannot fathom the influence of a videogame on your well-being then how do you know what fun even is? If you know that fun is you not caring about the outcome of the activity you're doing or not seeing any other aspect beyond pressing buttons and clicking, then you will not understand my post beyond the simplification of "it's just a game" which gives you a perspective different than mine. MMOs need varying perspectives to be diverse in content. But psychologically, we all strive for the same outcomes when playing them. I would hope that when reading my post, you understand a different perspective of playing videogames and interacting with videogame companies: That things like not rewarding players, lying to players, or not listening to players is damaging long-term.
I do not see activities as "fun, so I'll keep it" and "not fun right now, so I'll drop it.". There's gradation, ebb and flows, and bell curves to "fun". I'm curious: What did WoW and RIFT do to you to make you finally quit them? Now look at the "unimportant" points I make in my post. The concerns I outline for ESO is to stop it from reaching my, your, and anyone's "quit point". If this boils down to you saying, "Too much work. I'll just play or leave." Then we are at an impasse of what motivates us.
My post is basically figuring out how I felt when playing the game to outlining the path ESO is on to lead me to those feelings. Clearly I'm not alone. If you're unaffected or don't care, then that's that and I wish you a long, enjoyable playtime!1 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest issue that we are facing in-game (and life that is) is that we humans (and with that alot of other animal species) are prone to stick to familiar things, and habits that we develop during our life. It takes 30 minutes to develop one, 6 months to get rid of it again.
ESO caters to this habit that we players have developed over the past 2 decades, by adding more shallow systems, that offer a brief reward.
Taking that into account, we also (yes, we all do) are quite vunerable to addictions combined with the above. Even a dog will learn quicker if you offer a reward, then nothing at all.
To some extend, -and the next part is in no way meant as disrespect, harmful or offensive to anyone- we are all autistic. Its a natural way to keep order in the chaos that surrounds us. And some people are smart enough to abuse this for their own gain, wheter through a scheme in a store, or online.
Life happens, whether you participate or not.Edited by Huyen on February 14, 2022 9:24AMHuyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh0 -
Khenarthi✭✭✭✭✭
✭It really helps to learn to let go: I know I will never get Perfected stuff and I'm fine with that, I will probably never fill any trial and arena stickerbooks and I'm fine with that, I will have to buy pvp gear from people who engage in that content rather than earning it, etc. Crafting dailies are a good way to earn gold but if it feels like a job, just ditch them for a while. Do not let FOMO control you.
Rewards are nice but thre are many activites which would be fun even without any rewards.I mean, my main activity is questing, and the objective reward from a quest is usually a small amount of gold and a simple piece of zone gear (sometimes, it's not even part of a zone gear set, just a basic green item). So much for rewards, but I still love it because for me it is relaxing and therefore, fun.
It's a matter of perspective. I like that the game gives me so many different things to spend time on, so while I won't engage on "endgame" things which bring me a limited amount of fun versus endless amounts of frustration, each day I can set my own goals with my many alts for map completion, progress in skill lines, exploring, thieving, fishing, etc. I have lots of fun this way.
I still think taking a break (temporary or definitive) is a good move if playing a computer/console game is affecting your mental health. Find an alternative activity that brings more fun, come back when/if you miss ESO (and let go of FOMO, it's a trap).PC-EU2 -
Cardhwion✭✭✭That's all I have to say. I hope ESO improves at a pace acceptable to each player. I believe the game is still relatively young and capable of making a shift in direction, but it needs to take heart to that. Players are more keenly aware of exploitation now and have no qualms moving to different entertainment, never to look back. I took one week to write this post and didn't play at all during that time. I actually started to get excited to jump in and do things again and I didn't worry about the grinds or dailies, no matter how much gold or stuff I missed. Don't commend that break, though. It just translates to rebuilding tolerance for disappointing design that I wish I could avoid while playing. I want my few hours a day to feel well-spent. I hope the team has the same goal. I look forward to where ESO goes in 2022. May the years I've already spent in the game continue to grow with my then newfound enthusiasm.
Honestly: a lot of this is YOUR problem. You are not being "penalized" when you are not doing stuff. I never even look what the daily/weekly endeavour is. If it happens while I play, nice. If it does not happen, also fine. I don't mind. I don't really care much about the rewards. I play the way I enjoy the game, and that's that. I don't do the dailies, when I do not feel like it. Alright, I may lose out on some gold, when I am not doing the daily crafting. But who cares? I am not a slave of the game. The game is there for my fun.
Regarding the grind, this game is a LOT better than other MMOs. I do not need to grind rep with this or that faction to unlock flying, or access to gear or whatever other content. I do not need to grind gear constantly, because some new set came along or new tier came out. I came over from WOW and this game is pure freedom, in comparison. Stuff like endeavours, or dailies for motif pages, are purely for cosmetic stuff, I will not have weaker characters, for not doing them.
Yes there are a few grinds, like Undaunted, Mages and Warrior's guild, but they are not really bad and in many cases rather easily done. There is no new rep faction every patch, with the new dailies you must do, because otherwise you'll fall behind on the gear hunt or something other essential.
So nope; I do not feel exploited by the myriad of dailies for style materials and motif pages present in each zone, I do not feel exploited by endeavours and other stuff. Why: because most what comes of it is purely cosmetic, and if I spend my whole playtime doing something else, it won't be a problem. In this game you can go very far on self-crafted sets, self-cooked food and some materials you farmed. The hamsterwheel is only there if you want it. Otherwise you can do as you like and I enjoy that immensily.
"Why did I follow him...? I don't know. Why do things happen as they do in dreams? All I know is that, when he beckoned... I had to follow him. From that moment, we traveled together, East. Always... into the East."11 -
Cardhwion✭✭✭I forgot to add: I never felt the need to enter an arena or trial. I do very well with the gear I can get playing purely solo and I even managed to get some monster sets, without ever grouping."Why did I follow him...? I don't know. Why do things happen as they do in dreams? All I know is that, when he beckoned... I had to follow him. From that moment, we traveled together, East. Always... into the East."0
-
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭... @AcadianPaladin What are the sorts of things you find intrisically fun? Would you do them all without a reward in their current state? Do they allow you to make your own personal achievements? No doubt these things exist to each their own. ...
Here's a few things my elf loves to do:
Soloing a fair number of the basic alliance zone group dungeons.
Soloing most alliance zone WBs.
Riding her mare at a walk along the beach, perhaps catching a fish or two but mostly admiring the view and the music.
Crafting her own food.
Tweaking out her cozy little Snugpod.
Running daily delves for Bolgrul.
I find those things lots of fun and, as you can see, none of them are motivated by achievements/rewards. My elf's been playing ESO for over 10,000 hours and nearly 2000 CP so she is basically at the top of her progression. We revel in being able to simply enjoy what we do without worrying much about future 'progression'. She quite literally simply enjoys living her life and adventuring in Tamriel.
PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo3 -
Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭I.. honestly never felt anything like this. I do agree that ESO has not the best reward system, but then again I don't play for rewards or achievements, I play purely because I think it's fun and the setting is great.
Imo grind is all in the mindset. I know that if I ever feel like everything is an endless grind, I'd stop playing immediately as I don't find that enjoyable. However ESO never made me feel like that ever. If something takes me a while to get, I just see that as a long term objective, not as a grind to get it as fast as I can.
I think it's great that ESO has so many things and dailies, since that gives choice. I don't feel compelled to do everything every day, like not at all. There's no way in hell I'd ever do crafting dailies every day on 18 characters, I don't see it as stuff I 'missed' when I don't do it, but instead as stuff I gain when I'd do it on an additional character.
If you classify this as FOMO you could classify almost everything in the world as FOMO.
The only time I farm crafting dailies on all my characters is during the anniversary event, as it gives me so much stuff that I get enough gold to last me most of the year. And since I'm a fashion collector, it'll give me tons of duplicate patterns that I can give away to friends who have less. And sure farming the anniversary event is deffo a bit grindy, but it's a conscious choice I make once a year, not one I feel forced into.
In general my glass is always half full instead of half empty.
5
