Opinion Piece: Healing Is Way Too High Right Now

GoodFella146

What is the point of having an entire wing in the CP tree for healing if by comparison of the damage tree, nobody uses it. Healers in trials mostly don't use things to directly increase healing, they are throwing out buffs. PvP I'm seeing more and more fights just stalemate, which is very boring.

Anyone else hate this continuing trend?

Drammanoth

Have you researched this?

Now, seriously, in PvP healing is less powerful, and its potency depends on what one picks - not evey healer needs to pick healing perks.

Chips_Ahoy

I'm a healer and I use it, I don't know how many healers you've talked to about it (100? 1,000?) to make such a statement.

If you don't want to use that tree, don't use it, no one forces you, but don't want to impose your selfishness on others.

Vevvev

My healer mostly focuses on damage and if I need more healing I just pump out more healing abilities. Only healer CP star I use outside the one passive is the From the Brink one since that damage shield is sooooo nice. As for PvP, yeah the healing is a bit nutty at times. Even with the nerf to healing it's still pretty strong, but there's no easy way about going about it. If you nerf it you push people to stack more heals and/or build tankier, and if you buff it people will just stalemate more often.

Think the best course of action is to actually buff healing's antithesis, Defile. Buff the defile debuffs just a bit and now you can add a bit more counterplay to certain specs.

phaneub17_ESO

We could be like other MMOs where skills have actual cast times and cooldowns, that will make healing a whole lot harder having to wait 15 seconds before you could use Radiating Regeneration next cast with a 1.5 second cast time. Then those CP slots will really make a huge difference.

Xarc

i'm playing healer in dungeon, trials & pvp

in pvp heals are ok.
in pve i agree, it's to high and the fact everybody is selfhealing in dungeon is a little bit frustrating for healers.

GoodFella146

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

I'm a healer and I use it, I don't know how many healers you've talked to about it (100? 1,000?) to make such a statement.

If you don't want to use that tree, don't use it, no one forces you, but don't want to impose your selfishness on others.

Whuuut? I'm not in charge of doing anything nor am imposing anything. It's an opinion piece.

etchedpixels

PvE self heals are too strong.

PvP seems to be most a problem with the sheer number of simultaneous heals you can lay down and be affected by. It's one of the problems with countering ball groups (along with the 3 second lag and no skills firing).

I'd like to see more defile, more AoE defile, and a cap on the number of healing sources you can be affected by per second.

FluffWit

I'd be fine with them nerfing pve healing so it's on par with pve I guess. Seems like 75% of a healers job these days isn't healing.

But they'd need to be some sort of buff for newbs so they can still get out of trouble..... how you do that without making me even more OP in Cyrodiil at level 30 idk.

dinokstrunz

Even solo battlegrounds feel like premade brawler matches thanks to overperforming cross heals like Radiant Regeneration. Something almost certainly needs to be done. It's just way to strong right now.

Wolfpaw

W/S scale heals waaaay too much. I like the direction some CP have taken, s/w for damage & s/w for healing.

spartaxoxo

I like the state of healing right now. The healing is strong enough to empower solo play but not so strong that healers are useless in the toughest content. Nobody wants to need a healer for FG.

AcadianPaladin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I like the state of healing right now. The healing is strong enough to empower solo play but not so strong that healers are useless in the toughest content. Nobody wants to need a healer for FG.

Agree 100%. I play healer instead of tank precisely because healers are quite competent at solo overland play. That's why I no longer play tanks. If healing is nerfed, I'll abandon healing and join the more traveled path of a dps. My fear is that nerfing healer dps would make healers as rare as tanks and for the same reason. For me, comfortably soloing overland content and some group content without swapping gear/specs comes first. If I can't do that as a healer, I won't play one.

RisenEclipse

Xarc wrote: »

i'm playing healer in dungeon, trials & pvp

in pvp heals are ok.
in pve i agree, it's to high and the fact everybody is selfhealing in dungeon is a little bit frustrating for healers.

It's also frustrating when healers don't heal you! But honestly, I like being able to self heal myself whenever I want, because I have this crippling mistrust of healers actually doing it. It's also nice to have if the tank isn't doing their job and the boss is aggroing on your butt. I'm very squishy, so I need those heals.

But I'd rather use my resources to do my job and dps the boss, so I can quickly end the dungeon. If I'm having to waste resources to self heal, then that's a problem with the healer. So if you're seeing a frustrating amount of people self healing, then you might want to ask why they felt the need to self heal if you're supposed to be healing them. They shouldn't even need to use those. So I'd rather have these self heals and not need it, then need it and not have it.

FeedbackOnly

Nobody uses healers because healing scales on weapon and spell damage.

It's time for healing to have it's own stat.

P.S they tried lowering healing with scalebreaker. It was a good idea but just didn't work. The answer is a new stat.

FeedbackOnly

Xarc wrote: »

i'm playing healer in dungeon, trials & pvp

in pvp heals are ok.
in pve i agree, it's to high and the fact everybody is selfhealing in dungeon is a little bit frustrating for healers.

It's frustrating that DPS can have higher heals then actual healer

NerfSeige

Yep, healing is so high that can do 3 or sometimes 4 dps for a fast vet-hm 4-man. 1 healer on 12-man is mostly a parse healer.

On pvp groups everyone can full damage cause of cross heals. Decent to high mmr bgs are always 15-min.

Nerf heals please!

Tharonil

Please stop screaming for nerfs all the time.

Everything is fine with self heals

Amottica

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

We could be like other MMOs where skills have actual cast times and cooldowns, that will make healing a whole lot harder having to wait 15 seconds before you could use Radiating Regeneration next cast with a 1.5 second cast time. Then those CP slots will really make a huge difference.

It would also have the same effect on doing damage since one would have to wait on that skill that does sweet damage to come off CD as well.

Fortunately combat will not be completely reworked to make this like WoW.

svendf

Lets have a talk about self-heals ? There is nothing with the healer role. The problem is self-heal as no one should be able to blast through 4 man contens without a healer - no one!

I want to take a chance here and say ZOS may not agree with you.

Should the case be that you are a healer main. ZOS have givem you the tools to change CP points and gear.

So ? What is this post really about ?

Cheers

Dem_kitkats1

I definitely agree with OP and I have already made a couple of other threads about it. Yes, healers are using the healing branches of the CP tree, but the question is are they using it to its full potential? Are those slots really needed for most content? I've run a healer in hard vet content and most of the time I only run a couple of healing abilities, the rest are abilities to buff the team, as well as damage abilities. So most of my time is not actually dedicated to healing other players. In trials it's a little different in that there are certainly healing checks, so then I'll do more dedicated healing. However, aside from those, the rest of time is mostly used to buff and damage. I would say that DPS characters have become very self sufficient now, and most of the time when they die, it's to one-shot mechanics, which healers cannot out heal anyway. But as others have said, DPS toons can practically do the same amount of actual healing as a dedicated healer. And now we have issues of people queuing as fake roles because they can get away with it most of the time, as filling dedicated healer and tank roles aren't really needed for most content. This also causes people to be angry when healers aren't actually healers that they can rely on because 8 times out of 10 most people dont need a dedicated healer. I mean at this point players are soloing some of the vet hard mode dungeons because their self sufficiency is so high. I can't help but wonder what this trend of hybridization and empowerment of solo play will do to the identity of roles, and what that will mean for the diversity in this game.

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Nobody uses healers because healing scales on weapon and spell damage.

It's time for healing to have it's own stat.

P.S they tried lowering healing with scalebreaker. It was a good idea but just didn't work. The answer is a new stat.

Yes, exactly! This is a real problem in PvP as one player can out heal 5 others, but then turn around and kill people in a couple of hits. It doesn't make sense that one player can heal that much with no concession to their damage. So now DMs often become a long, giant slog of teams dishing out millions in damage, yet no one dies and matches become a low kill stalemate. The gameplay is unengaging as the majority of players now sit back spamming heals until they can target inexperienced players, low health players, or players separated from their team. Cyrodiil is just a slew of players self healing and h.o.t. stacking on eachother. So now it's not only just tank builds that never die, it's also hybrid DPS toons on top of that. In trying to make this game friendly to new and casual players, it's actually making it worse as 5 new players can't even take down 1 experienced player because their health can go from 10% to full with one press of a self heal, and then turn around and kill players in 2-3 hits. Add crosshealing into the mix and players are practically unkillable.

spartaxoxo

Nobody should be pigeon holed so badly that they need someone fully specced into healing to complete content that just doesn't have a lot of incoming damage in the first place.

That would be awful and boring.

The reason people can do dungeons without a healer isn't because healing is too strong, it's because most of the dungeons have damage that the dps can readily avoid taking altogether else they are one shot.

Dem_kitkats1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Nobody should be pigeon holed so badly that they need someone fully specced into healing to complete content that just doesn't have a lot of incoming damage in the first place.

That would be awful and boring.

The reason people can do dungeons without a healer isn't because healing is too strong, it's because most of the dungeons have damage that the dps can readily avoid taking altogether else they are one shot.

There are multiple character slots, which means that you can make characters for different roles, for all of the varying types of content in the game. Forcing people to play nothing but hybrid DPS toons because that is the only viable and effective way to play is pidgeonholing. There's more variety in having to plan builds and actually spec into the different skill lines depending on what role and type of content you'll be doing with that toon, rather than making the same hybrid over and over, slapping practically the same sets and skills onto it. There are players who would really enjoy playing full support roles, and would like to do more than DPS, but at this point why bother?

The damage by enemies in the dungeons seems so low because everyone has so much healing and damage mitigation at their fingertips. If people didn't have access to so much free healing, the damage would be much more impactful and challenging. I don't see how having access to less powerful healing would suddenly make you unable to complete content. It would only allow for full support players to be more viable and impactful in more content, group comps would change and be more diverse again, and more of the content would actually be challenging.

p00tx

Xarc wrote: »

i'm playing healer in dungeon, trials & pvp

in pvp heals are ok.
in pve i agree, it's to high and the fact everybody is selfhealing in dungeon is a little bit frustrating for healers.

I'm a healer main and definitely not frustrated by the self-healing in dungeons. That's always been a thing for as long as I've played this game, which is almost since the beginning.

I agree though that healing is incredibly high, but unfortunately, if you reduce healing, there would be no way to complete the newer trials content. They keep making content based on the capability of the role triad in that current patch, so reverting any of those roles makes that content almost impossible.

Call_of_Red_Mountain

Pve healers suffered enough from nerf. Please don't touch them.
Self heal? Completely different question. But they can't separate pve and pvp. No options here.

Paulytnz

What I don't get is why (on console at least) do we not see party members negative status icons next to their name? We could in GW2. Not sure if you have that on PC, where you can SEE what ailments your party members have and then accordingly help them by removing them.

This may sound like it has nothing to do with this topic at all. But if this was a thing, that could be another thing healers could do/be needed for, removing conditions. There are skills for it and even a perk in the Healing Tree for it. Just seems kind of wasted to me if we can't even see when our allies need it. Unless of course we sit there moving our in game pointer to each char every few seconds.....

In GW2, not only does it show next to the party member's name in the party UI but it even lets you hover over the icon (same for any buff/debuff on yourself) and get a description of the effect. Can you PC players do this on PC even? If so I would be asking for those of us on console to also get this feature. Does not have to be a difficult thing to do. Heck just make it you press Triangle + Circle together (PS4/5). Doing this would let us either scroll through the Icons with the shoulder buttons or give us a movable cursor with a right joystick to hover over the icons.

If this does not even exist for you PC players, then oh boy what the heck is all I can say....

Summary:

Give the Healer Role more things to be needed for than just heal. Buffs/Heal/Remove Conds should be the staple. Giving the Healing tree more value and more "support" actions assigned to our skill slots than just the 1 heal, all the rest damage or whatever people do.

Dem_kitkats1

Call_of_Red_Mountain wrote: »

Pve healers suffered enough from nerf. Please don't touch them.
Self heal? Completely different question. But they can't separate pve and pvp. No options here.

PvP needs reduced healing as well. It's a whole game issue.

p00tx wrote: »

I'm a healer main and definitely not frustrated by the self-healing in dungeons. That's always been a thing for as long as I've played this game, which is almost since the beginning.

I agree though that healing is incredibly high, but unfortunately, if you reduce healing, there would be no way to complete the newer trials content. They keep making content based on the capability of the role triad in that current patch, so reverting any of those roles makes that content almost impossible.

They are reverting the triad roles by allowing access to high healing tool tips for free with high damage. This is why more players opt to run groups of hybrid DDs and possibly a tank rather than having an actual healer. With high damage you get higher healing than healers because healers don't build for damage. No one is saying to nerf all healing, just to separate it from damage stats. DDs would still have some self healing and damage mitigation, just not as much of it. You would still be able to complete the new vet content because healers would actually be able to fulfill their role and do a lot of healing to compensate for DDs lack of it. And they would be more impactful than being a buff bot, or have to do damage as a support role. This would allow players more variety in play than constantly DDing all of the time.

BXR_Lonestar

Xarc wrote: »

i'm playing healer in dungeon, trials & pvp

in pvp heals are ok.
in pve i agree, it's to high and the fact everybody is selfhealing in dungeon is a little bit frustrating for healers.

The problem with self heals is the fact that heals scale off of your spell damage and magika pool (and soon based off of "damage" and your highest offensive stat). The problem with that is DPS will always have stronger heals than a dedicated healer, because dedicated healers don't necessarily build to have insanely high spell damage. My dedicated healer has 3.6k spell power and 41k magika self-buffed. This allows me to sustain my heals throughout any fight, but my heals, on average, are going to be a bit weaker than a DPS who's running 6k spell damage buffed and 32-34k magika.

What they really need to do is change how healing scales so that higher DPS stats don't result in higher self-healing. That will make healers more specialized, but actually more needed outside of trials and the higher-end difficulty dungeons.

Call_of_Red_Mountain

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Call_of_Red_Mountain wrote: »

Pve healers suffered enough from nerf. Please don't touch them.
Self heal? Completely different question. But they can't separate pve and pvp. No options here.

PvP needs reduced healing as well. It's a whole game issue.

You can't touch pvp without pve changes. Reason in my message. This is old problem.

WuffyCerulei

I feel some times there’s too little healing in various HM trials, and healers already have a tough time as it is if DPS are constantly standing in stupid or ignoring mechanics to be parse monkeys. Healing also isn’t just hurrdurr breathe of life spam. There’s hots, resources, buffs, and whatnot they have to put out, as well as constantly being aware of the health of their group members AND being aware of positioning and mechanics. Some heals on certain builds are overtuned, but healing in general doesn’t need a total nerf.

Seraphayel

Damage and healing should never scale from the same things.

Never.