How do you feel about the difficulty of Veteran DLC Trials?

BronzeCaiman

As the largest form of PvE group content in the game that also provides some of the best gear in the game, how do you feel about the Veteran DLC Trials? And what do you like/dislike about them? Also include if you play in a premade group or a group of random players. And what you feel should be done with the content. Thanks for participating.

SickleCider

I don't know how to answer. The difficulty is largely impacted by the group of people you can put together. There's a lot of people that make things more difficult than they have to be.

Danikat

I can't comment on how difficult they are because I've got no interest in attempting them, so I've never tried.

It seems like you either need a regular group or proof you've done it before to get into a PUG, and my free time is too unpredictable to commit to doing anything on a regular basis so I doubt a progression or training group would take me even if I wanted to join. I'd rather spend my time on things which can be done on a more ad hoc basis so I'm not annoying myself or anyone else when I can't meet a schedule.

Arthtur

4 option - depends

If i get group thats know what to do then most trials are just easy.

If i get a group of ppl who dont know mechs and refuse to listen then most of trials are rly hard or even impossible.


The true difficulty of trials is in getting achievements. But for that u need prog group. Getting those achievements with random ppl is just impossible.

karekiz

Medium

Medium. "Vet DLC" is a broad statement. Some are a lot harder than others to randomly pug <not including discords with req tags etc, just pug>.

Araneae6537

Challenging but fun and only occasionally frustrating, so I’m not sure which to select… I don’t think that they need to be made more difficult as there are achievements and hard modes. I don’t think they need to be made easier as there is the normal mode for that.

Maybe the poll would make more sense with options like too easy, too hard, just right?

spartaxoxo

Hard

I think their completion ratios objectively speak for themselves.

Araneae6537

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think their completion ratios objectively speak for themselves.

How so? Now I don’t know what the completion ratios even are, but if it is low for vet trials, why is that necessarily a bad thing? How many were disorganized PUG groups (not that all PUG groups are disorganized)? How many were simply not prepared for or interested in doing said content? That there is a normal mode which already makes the whole experience widely accessible. Why should everything be completable with minimum effort? I enjoy a challenge that I can work with a group to overcome and then work at overcoming more smoothly.

Now it may be some things should be added to the base game trials, some better timed telegraphs or other indicators and markers for people and positions. Several of those things we are able to add on PC and it may be that the frustration level would be too high without.

Just saying that I don’t think it’s possible to make any conclusion, objective or otherwise, from completion rates alone.

Soulshine

Easy

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think their completion ratios objectively speak for themselves.

Completion ratios are also a reflection of the player base at large, which is vastly more interested in casual solo play like questing, housing, role playing, trading, etc. which is all just fine. There are also plenty of players solely interested in pvp - which is also just fine.

People who like to do vet trials in the game are a particular breed of player and have historically never been a huge percentage of the player base. People that are reliable, willing to play together on a regular basis, and commit to getting achievements in vet trials are just not representative of the majority of players in the game.

But that said, compared to raids in other mmos, vet dlc trials here are not particularly challenging unless you are talking about the HMs - in which case, the difficulty is exactly where it needs to be. Trials are end game content for pve - they are not supposed to be a cake walk.

Grandchamp1989

Medium

I have completed all the vet trials. In my experience Craglorn vet trials are being pugged all the time, pretty much everyone can just wing it and complete it.

Then you got older vet trials such as Sunspire and Cloudrest+0 that can get cleared rather easily with some mechs but they're getting a bit dated while still fun.

But if you look at the new trials such as Kynes and especially Rockgrove they turned the hurting way up. Everything hurts more and there's much more to do than just parse a dragon.

Craglorn Easy
Older Vet trials medium
Newer vet trials would be medium-hard, definitely harder than the older ones, they don't even compare to the Craglorn anymore.

Rudrani

Its not a fair poll.

Vet Asylum is a lot easier than vet Rockgrove. In general they tend to get more difficult to keep up with the increasing player level.

I believe the vet trials are fairly difficult. You can't just throw anyone in the group and complete it. Its also reasonably challenging to "carry" more than 1 person who doesn't really know how to play that trial correctly.

I think it SHOULD be this way

I wish they would buff the very old, base game trials, because those trials (Craglorns) actually have interesting underlying mechs - especially Sanctum Ophidian.

I wish they would add perfected versions of the gear to the older trials.

They should also add Trifecta titles and achievements for all the older trials (and dungeons).

As for the DLC trial hardmodes these are very inconsistent. I mean the difference between Rockgrove vanilla and hardmode is HUGE, while the difference between Halls of Fabrication vanilla and hardmode is relatively minor.

In general I believe Trials SHOULD be difficult, and are the current level of difficulty is OK. It could be turned up a bit higher, the more you go back in time through the DLC and basegame.

ONE SIDE NOTE:

Kynes Ageis is the worst trial they ever made. The hardmode on the final boss is the most tedius, boring fight ever.

Rudrani

Also, I hate how ZoS has a pattern that goes like this:

1) release a trial that is really well designed and challenging
2) wait
3) wait
4) nerf it.

vHoF is a huge example of this.
Rockgrove also just saw the nerf ball.

Why nerf this stuff? you KNOW the game has power creep.

markulrich1966

Hard

(Update: I thought it was about dungeons, just realized it is about trials, sorry)

I run 2 accounts, one with ESO+ (cp1600), and one without (cp240).

I play (random) dungeons on the non-ESO+ account only to avoid having to run a DLC dungeon.
I don't like the one shot mechanics, and they consume too much time.

It is certainly nice to have a challenging option for players who get tired of the simpler ones, it is just not my piece of cake.
So as others requested before, I would like to see an option to skip DLC dungeons in the dungeonfinder if you use ESO+.

Grandchamp1989

Medium

Yeah the nerf over time I don't understand either.
They do the same with Dungeon's. People used to be excited when Moonhunter Keep came up or Frostvault now it's just a whatever dungeon. Personly i would even buff the older stuff..

What is really funny though is that while Zos keep nerfing older content, the community keeps demanding higher and higher DPS for the same old content every year LOL. That's kinda funny. 60k used to nice for sunspire, now people think they're carrying you if you go in with that lol yet the trial has only gotten easier with time. lol I don't get it..

But yeah, would be nice if things didn't get nerfed constantly, I agree with you there.

mickeyx

Hard

BlackArgonian wrote: »

As the largest form of PvE group content in the game that also provides some of the best gear in the game, how do you feel about the Veteran DLC Trials? And what do you like/dislike about them? Also include if you play in a premade group or a group of random players. And what you feel should be done with the content. Thanks for participating.

The difficulty jump from normal base trials to vets ones is big and sudden.

colossalvoids

It is what it is, I can't grade them all with one colour.

It's good enough content to occupy ourselves with, probably my favourite activity of all still while didn't played a single one in a year. Was playing with a set group and randoms / as a replacement in other groups, doesn't really changes the content so not sure how it's relevant.

If that's a disguised "nerf thread" I'd suggest finding or starting your own group, it's not a content aimed on pugging to actually enjoy it.

Whiskey_JG

Its hard to assess this since it will depend on the group you are running with. With random people even vHRC will be tough.
So it all revolves around how much your group is optimised and how much the people know their role. The rest is just practicing mechanics and improving strategies.

I would say that overall I am happy with the difficulty level. There is a big step up to veteran trials, an even bigger step up to Hardmodes and a godly step up to achieve trifectas.

My only complaint is that the game does not have enough trials. Wish they added more than just 1 per year.

Whiskey_JG

I also believe that the REWARD to EFFORT ratio for achieving Hardmodes or trifectas should be addressed. I dont think the rewards are adequate given the time and dedication you have to put in for weeks in a row to achieve certain trifectas.

ajkb78

It's fine. They're hard until you can do them, then they're easy. But everyone in the group needs to learn the content, you can be a dromathra destroyer and help out a new twins prog and it'll be hard going while the new players learn the mechanics. Actually I still think vmol is by a long way the best designed trial there has ever been in ESO. Its difficulty comes because the mechanics are hard and rely on everyone performing them correctly, not just because the boss has a billion health.

thorwyn

Easy

Once you know the mechanics and you are with a decent group, veteran is easy. Some of the trash groups in vKA are harder than the actual bosses.
Now hardmodes are a different story.

ATomiX69

Easy

If you mean just completing the trial without any hardmode or achievement boundries, is pretty easy, its not even remotely comparable with mythic raids in wow or savage raids in ffxiv.
Meta achievements is where the real difficulty lies in, but some of the older meta achievements can be trivialized by just having enough Group DPS which allows you to skip mechanics / reduce the chances of people f*cking up.

MissHeartseekerx

Hard

It depends on the group. With a solid group doing good damage and all having a basic understanding of the trial, they're usually okay, a bit touch-and-go if going for any achievements. If not going for any achievements, they're all fine and doable (unless group damage is sat at 40k). I exclusively pug my vet trials (other than sometimes pulling in a guildie or two), so I'm sure they'd go a hell of a lot smoother if running with all experienced people on comms.

Mushroomancer

Medium

It's pretty hard to answer in such a categorical way.
First of all, it really depends on the group of people you're doing them with. Yes, generally you'll want an organized group, but apparently a lot of people still pug trials, especially the older ones, and that just tends to make things look and feel way harder most of the times (sometimes you do get people in pugs that are ok, but that's a pretty big dice roll).
Secondly, another factor to take into consideration is what you are going for. Just regular trial completion? I think that's not so hard, in pretty much any of them. Hard Modes or Trifecta runs? That's a whole different story, since they require communication, knowledge of the trial, and, sometimes a bit of luck with mechanics not overlapping in a way that screws you over. Since I can't tell if this is a "nerf trials" thread masquerading as a poll, let me just tell you this, if you think that these achievements should be attainable in pugs, you're just wrong in my opinion, they really shouldn't. Look, even I don't have great social skills, but I really like the fact that content like trials, specifically the harder achievements really push you to work with a group of people and get better together, and it's kinda disheartening when you see trials like HoF getting nerfed over the years (I still think that trial is a bit lenghty to make it really fun, but I like it nonetheless, and it's now a joke), just because people can't put together a group, or use basic communication skills.
Lastly, the difficulty changes quite a bit depending on the trial itself. Older trials, up to AS are very easy; CR is in the middle, pretty balanced difficulty, even if the trial itself can get messy when you go for +2/+3; the same goes for SS onwards. I would say that, with HM in mind, the difficulty seems to have increased over the years, but I don't like how it has increased. Looking at KA and RG, some trash packs are harder or do more damage than bosses, which I think is just straight up wrong from a design standpoint. HMs are either incredibly tedious (looking at you, Falgravn), or a simple increase in damage/health, and slightly tighter windows on mechanics/negligible increases in their difficulty (Yolna and Vrol). Just for clarification, the only HM I haven't experienced yet is Xalvakka, so I can't speak on that, but I don't mind the other two for RG, they are ok.
When it comes to what should be done with trials, I think the ones that are in the game should be left as is in terms of balancing. Just fix them when it comes to bugs and glitches, as an example, AS is a damn mess, there's not a single evening I've been in there without at least a glitch in either Olms and the minis behavior, the fight resetting because why not, or just general glitches with targeting and stuff like that, and of course, a plethora of crashes. In the future I would like trials to be a bit more creative with their mechs, just to avoid garbage like Falgravn, and maybe tie them more with the zone story, and with their corresponding zone in general (I don't know if I'm deaf or dumb, but it feels like what happens inside trials isn't mentioned by anyone outside of the usual NPC quest-giver that directs you to them or a generic bark from NPCs when you walk near them).

hafgood

They vary in difficulty and inhale no issue with that, it gives you a sense of progression as you complete the next one. Having them all the same difficulty wise would not be a good idea as they would either end up too hard or too easy for the majority. How they are at the moment is fine

MEBengalsFan2001

The reality is that most content that is in Vet will be consider hard for the average player. Which is why the game does have normal dungeons and trials so that the average player can still get the gear.

I personally find that a group with decent damage, decent healers and good tanks can beat all content in this game. Just you have to be on point to beat the content and if one player is off, especially a support player, it really hurts the group ability to finish the content.

kargen27

Hard

I decided to choose hard based only on they are harder than normal. They are the hardest content in the game. I think the difficulty level is good where it is. I've been in groups that get through with few problems but they worked at it for a while and I was filling in for their healer.
I am in a guild that once a week works on a vet trial. Cloudrest took us I think five months to finish the first time vet mode trying once a week. Felt good when we finished and for our group the difficulty was fine. We knew if we paid attention to mechanics we could finish and when we finally did it was a good feeling. Sunspire didn't take us as long but was still a challenge for us that took several weeks to finally manage to get through. Kind of fun after a few weeks of wiping over and over to the first boss finally figuring it out and getting past the boss. We see we obviously get better. If they were easier I don't think our group would find them near as fun as what we do now. If they were much harder we might feel they are something we will never accomplish.
We have a few more to work through then will consider hard mode I'm sure. I like the difficulty. A group of average players that pay attention to mechanics will eventually get through the vet levels and hard mode offers a challenge to the above average players.

Vevvev

I can't really answer this question with the answers on the poll. I think the difficulty is right where it needs to be as it forces people to think and move, has hard modes in the veteran mode for the elite of the elite, and pushes player's builds to the edge.

phileunderx2

Medium

For most trials clearing on vet is quite doable for most groups that can work together and do the mechanics.
Once you start doing hard modes then meta sets, and group composition become a necessity.

xaraan

I don't know how to answer this really with the basic options.

1. It depends on your group. I've run content that feels like a breeze with one group and impossible with others.

2. It depends on which trial. I'd say my biggest two gripes about difficulty in trials is consistency - some feel like they aren't worth the trouble, some feel like a fun challenge and some a cakewalk.

3. And the other gripe about difficulty is in some of the methods they use to make things challenging. (One shots all over the place, group wipe mechs overdone, crazy high health that just creates tedious fights, mechs that punish you for your role of tanking or healing, etc). It often makes them more annoying and not fun than just hard.