Tanks - Would you hate an Ice Warden DPS in a dungeon?

Hlaaluna

Hey all, I guess the topic says it. Having played Necro DPS for a long time I decided to play around with something new and I am having an absolute blast levelling my Ice Warden (no bear) DPS with 2 ice staves.

She is only level 30 and I have not taken her into a dungeon yet (other than to solo with Mirri) and am wondering if this build is a no-no for group content, unless with very tolerant friends.

Am I correct that and ice DPS build really messes up the tank?

irswat

Just dont put points into the passive that makes ice staff taunt

woe

Ice heavy attacks don't taunt anymore so there is no issue with running double ice. You won't do the top end dps in the game but you'll be fine and it won't have any issues with the tank.

Fennwitty

There's a couple things with Ice DPS, not really insurmountable.

Several patches ago, just heavy attacking with an ice staff would Taunt enemies (if you had a particular passive trained), and many times players would do it by accident. That would cause things to get messy.

The Taunt was taken away from Heavy Attacking and put onto a specific morph of the Destruction Staff Skill Destructive Touch. When using an Ice staff, one morph of the skill does decent ice damage, the other morph Taunts (Frost Clench is the Taunting one).

You will typically not want to be slotting Taunt unless you're the tank.

The other issue is far less serious, but certain abilities which cause Immobilize can interfere with a tank's plans for crowd controlling and grouping trash enemies. This is also generally not a huge issue and you can avoid the trouble spots.

For example the Wall of Elements skill for frost will Immobilize enemies already Chilled. You want to be careful with Immobilize and Stun abilities because they prevent the target from being crowd-controlled again for a few seconds time after the first one.

If you Stun/Immobilize an archer shooting at your group, that will root it there and the tank won't be able to use Dragonknight Chains or other Pull abilities to group it in with the other trash.

So be careful not to drop abilities/skills unnecessarily at ranged targets and grant them temporary Crowd Control Immunity if the tank will likely try to pull them in.

Once enemies are already bunched up, there's not much reason to avoid immobilizing them again. Presumably, they're already where you want them to be. It's rare that a particular 'trash' enemy would be so problematic that temporary crowd control immunity would cause problems once they've been corralled already.

Bosses are immune to that type of crowd control so there's no issue.

trackdemon5512

No. You’re fine. Go right ahead. Brittle on everything. If I as a tank need to ensnare something I just fear them now. Fear feels far more effective these days.

Hlaaluna

Wow thank you for the replies everyone. You have all been incredibly helpful. I will definitely take on board all that was said, and if I think I may accidentally cast something I shouldn't in the heat of the moment I'll consider putting a different skill there for group content.

Thank you so much.

CP5

As others have said, besides frost blockade being able to randomly root things just make sure you don't take the taunting version of frost reach and you'll be golden.

phaneub17_ESO

Just keep the Betty Netch up or you'll find yourself running out in no time.

ESO_Nightingale

irswat wrote: »

Just dont put points into the passive that makes ice staff taunt

That hasn't existed since markarth.

For OP, unstable wall of frost is a bit bad for group as others have said, that morph of frost wall shouldn't sacrifice damage for utility. But it does anyway. But generally speaking you're fine. You might not be, but in case you are, don't use Arctic Blast since that will heavily interfere with the tank's cc. It's also absurdly expensive for how little dps it does. Due to the heal and stun and very limited duration.

tenryuta

wish freeze trap had a no teleport morph, slap ice furnace on warden and yay damaggio

Dauntess13

They just need to make ice staff full DPS and add an alteration staff that just focuses on support.

Raideen

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

irswat wrote: »

Just dont put points into the passive that makes ice staff taunt

That hasn't existed since markarth.

don't use Arctic Blast since that will heavily interfere with the tank's cc. It's also absurdly expensive for how little dps it does. Due to the heal and stun and very limited duration.

Well I a guess I am removing this one from the bar. Would be nice to have some ice DPS options for ice themed builds.

Did you get your ice bear mount?

mic88

i have a full leveled ice warden with double ice staff. Its my favourite character now. Really cool to play. And i do more dps with this toon than my fire magicka sorcerer...

perfiction

No, why? Brittleden is good and viable build. Just don't use Destructive Clentch, I've met pug DD using it once and he was messing up my aggro all the time (while the group blamed me for not taunting XD)

mic88 wrote: »

Really cool to play.

I see what you did there.

ESO_Nightingale

Raideen wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

irswat wrote: »

Just dont put points into the passive that makes ice staff taunt

That hasn't existed since markarth.

don't use Arctic Blast since that will heavily interfere with the tank's cc. It's also absurdly expensive for how little dps it does. Due to the heal and stun and very limited duration.

Well I a guess I am removing this one from the bar. Would be nice to have some ice DPS options for ice themed builds.

Did you get your ice bear mount?

sure did! but yeah, for "endgame viable" builds, you can run frost wall backbar, but it's not really necessary. my group got annoyed with the immobilise, so i swapped to fire which is still more dps even with frostbite. your only 2 frost dmg skills that you can run without having to sacrifice damage, are Winter's Revenge, and Frost Reach. everything else is a damage loss and doesn't help you much. which is part of the reason why we want more frost skills. we have 2 good ones. and everything else is immediately outclassed. DKs can run full fire damage skills because their entire kit is fire damage. i see no problem with making at least deep fissure deal frost damage. it's currently outclassed anyway by sub assault.

Raideen

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

irswat wrote: »

Just dont put points into the passive that makes ice staff taunt

That hasn't existed since markarth.

don't use Arctic Blast since that will heavily interfere with the tank's cc. It's also absurdly expensive for how little dps it does. Due to the heal and stun and very limited duration.

Well I a guess I am removing this one from the bar. Would be nice to have some ice DPS options for ice themed builds.

Did you get your ice bear mount?

sure did! but yeah, for "endgame viable" builds, you can run frost wall backbar, but it's not really necessary. my group got annoyed with the immobilise, so i swapped to fire which is still more dps even with frostbite. your only 2 frost dmg skills that you can run without having to sacrifice damage, are Winter's Revenge, and Frost Reach. everything else is a damage loss and doesn't help you much.

That is a bummer. I sure wish ESO would incorporate vet trial worthy frost DPS abilities into the game. I'd like to stop dividing my time between ESO and WoW, because only wow gives me the "Frost DPS" fix.

Glad you got the mount!

Vevvev

Don't spam Frost Clench and we're good. If anything I want a Brittle Warden on the team for the extra crit damage.

Hlaaluna

Thanks again everyone. Been checking back for all your insightful comments.

Succuby

If ZOS make more DPS good sets for tanks and return our prokes i do not really have much care of who is in party and is their dps low or not.

https://youtu.be/ULvk_CDr9xI

But now i find it only option. Game play is not really comfortable, return tanks proc sets for pve pls !!! Do not like be so limited with sets combinations. It is not old made corean 1 option only game right ?

Fizzyapple

Fennwitty wrote: »

There's a couple things with Ice DPS, not really insurmountable.

Several patches ago, just heavy attacking with an ice staff would Taunt enemies (if you had a particular passive trained), and many times players would do it by accident. That would cause things to get messy.

The Taunt was taken away from Heavy Attacking and put onto a specific morph of the Destruction Staff Skill Destructive Touch. When using an Ice staff, one morph of the skill does decent ice damage, the other morph Taunts (Frost Clench is the Taunting one).

You will typically not want to be slotting Taunt unless you're the tank.

The other issue is far less serious, but certain abilities which cause Immobilize can interfere with a tank's plans for crowd controlling and grouping trash enemies. This is also generally not a huge issue and you can avoid the trouble spots.

For example the Wall of Elements skill for frost will Immobilize enemies already Chilled. You want to be careful with Immobilize and Stun abilities because they prevent the target from being crowd-controlled again for a few seconds time after the first one.

If you Stun/Immobilize an archer shooting at your group, that will root it there and the tank won't be able to use Dragonknight Chains or other Pull abilities to group it in with the other trash.

So be careful not to drop abilities/skills unnecessarily at ranged targets and grant them temporary Crowd Control Immunity if the tank will likely try to pull them in.

Once enemies are already bunched up, there's not much reason to avoid immobilizing them again. Presumably, they're already where you want them to be. It's rare that a particular 'trash' enemy would be so problematic that temporary crowd control immunity would cause problems once they've been corralled already.

Bosses are immune to that type of crowd control so there's no issue.

Very informative/insightful. I hadn't considered the stun issue that might arise. Thanks

Dragonlord573

You can run anything you want as long as you don't use frost clench.

Chapilliams

Just played with an ice dd the other day, and there was no problem with dmg at all. So you can totally go for it

AMAI460

I play and Ice warden tank. Belive it or not does good dps as well. This is the one I use. Very fun. https://xynodegaming.com/natures-bounty/

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I thought I would ask anyway.

DK Tank. Frost/crusher on back bar. Been wondering about also putting Clench in a slot on back bar to trigger the Major Maim debuff.

But I cannot find anywhere where it says how long.

Also, looking to confirm on Choking talons, something I just read, that even though I get a warning that this or that boss is "Immune" that the Minor Maim still affects them.

So two things

1) how long for Major Maim on Frost Clench
2) does Choking talons apply Minor Maim to bosses, even if the screen says "Immune"

Thanks in advance.

robpr

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks
So two things

1) how long for Major Maim on Frost Clench
2) does Choking talons apply Minor Maim to bosses, even if the screen says "Immune"

Thanks in advance.

1. 5 seconds
2. Yes. Also if you decide to go with Burning Talons, the dot still apply. The "immune" part is for immobilize.

Bitter_Apple21

@robpr

Thanks. 5 seconds.....

I guess I could clench, wall, swap, pierce, choking, and back again to maintain maim.....lots of swapping. Just to keep normal tank stuff up as well as major and minor maim.

Comments on if it is worth it?? Thinking of the benefit of a 15% damage reduction on the boss. I will probably be burning thru magicka...

Don't know. Still learning tank basics.

Troodon80

Lillutu wrote: »

Hey all, I guess the topic says it. Having played Necro DPS for a long time I decided to play around with something new and I am having an absolute blast levelling my Ice Warden (no bear) DPS with 2 ice staves.

She is only level 30 and I have not taken her into a dungeon yet (other than to solo with Mirri) and am wondering if this build is a no-no for group content, unless with very tolerant friends.

Am I correct that and ice DPS build really messes up the tank?

Only partially correct. Ice staves are not inherintly bad for tanks when on DDs. The skill which causes taunt is frost clench, not frost reach (different morphs). Which also means you can have a Brittle Warden in dungeons (not that useful considering the tank could be doing it), and also in trials (more useful as it allows the tank to focus on other things; e.g. stagger as DK).

There was a time when heavy attacks taunted, but that no longer happens. Just pick the right morph and you're all good.

Troodon80

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I thought I would ask anyway.

DK Tank. Frost/crusher on back bar. Been wondering about also putting Clench in a slot on back bar to trigger the Major Maim debuff.

But I cannot find anywhere where it says how long.

Also, looking to confirm on Choking talons, something I just read, that even though I get a warning that this or that boss is "Immune" that the Minor Maim still affects them.

So two things

1) how long for Major Maim on Frost Clench
2) does Choking talons apply Minor Maim to bosses, even if the screen says "Immune"

Thanks in advance.

As already mentioned, the answer to your questions is 5 seconds (see screenshot attached) and yes. There's also good Minor Maim from status effects these days, so using it isn't necessarily as useful, depending on the group.

As for the time, it's in the tooltip of the ability once you slot it on your bar.

Bitter_Apple21

@Troodon80

Thanks. I had been searching the web, and only getting that it occurred, but I could not find how long.

Thanks again.

AMAI460

I run a warden ice tank and love it.

Varana

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@robpr

Thanks. 5 seconds.....

I guess I could clench, wall, swap, pierce, choking, and back again to maintain maim.....lots of swapping. Just to keep normal tank stuff up as well as major and minor maim.

Comments on if it is worth it?? Thinking of the benefit of a 15% damage reduction on the boss. I will probably be burning thru magicka...

Don't know. Still learning tank basics.

I wouldn't bother to keep Major Maim up all the time, to be honest.
Minor Maim has a few sources that allow for a good uptime - Talons (if on DK) and Heroic Slash are the main ones. That's worth paying attention to.
Major Maim should be an option for very specific attacks. If you know that the boss has a particularly high-damage heavy attack and see that spinning up - then go for it. Or if a boss is about to do a mechanic that hits many group members really hard (Warrior's Starfall in HRC, for instance) - that's a useful moment for this debuff.
Trying to keep it up all the time is way overkill, though.