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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050

What is the point of Mist form?

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nejcn001
nejcn001
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Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?
  • phaneub17_ESO
    phaneub17_ESO
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    Did they fix the pet damage issue where things like Blast Bones does full damage to mist form?
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    nejcn001 wrote: »
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    Why do people have to die for there to be PvP?

    If you are fighting someone and they make a retreat using Mist Form there was still PvP...

  • nejcn001
    nejcn001
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    Why do people have to die for there to be PvP?

    If you are fighting someone and they make a retreat using Mist Form there was still PvP...

    Then why are there points in deathmatch BG that counts deaths?

    PVP becomes this:
    https://media.istockphoto.com/vectors/vector-illustration-of-kids-playing-pillow-fight-vector-id956106594?k=20&m=956106594&s=170667a&w=0&h=0Vju79BQTOWF2A34ozHKNy2wq7o9Zj9gyZHhMtn-c2s=

  • Artim_X
    Artim_X
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    PvE nerf should be reverted. Mist used to let you get back resources while you were in it, while preventing you from getting healed by others. Now you get nothing. Stun a person that leaves mist and see just how much stamina they have left. Mist is fine in PvP.
    (AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanist
    Electric-Burn/Stun
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gif
    • Damage Dealing Build.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
    Electric-Heal
    https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gif
    • My Healer Build.
    • Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
    Electric-Ward
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gif
    • My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
    • Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
    Electric-Vamp
    https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
    Dawnfang
    https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gif
    • My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
    Duskfang
    https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
    PvE Starter Gear
    https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gif
    • Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
    • Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
    Race
    https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gif
    • High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
    Mundus Stones
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gif
    • PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
    • PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
    • PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
    Current Champion Points
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gif
    • DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
    • PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    Favorite Foods and Potions
    https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif
    • Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
    • Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
    • Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
    • Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
  • AuraStorm43
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    Its meant to be a PVP tool to get outta snares for toons that don’t have race against time or other snare removal in their toolkit

    The PVE nerf was likely an emergency change they’ll update it at some point
  • techyeshic
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    ^Race Against time is just as accessible as mist form. Mist form is more for classes that have no escape in PVP IMO. I actually don't see the big deal any more. Blocks ALL resource return now.
    Edited by techyeshic on November 27, 2021 2:51PM
  • AuraStorm43
    AuraStorm43
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    techyeshic wrote: »
    ^Race Against time is just as accessible as mist form. Mist form is more for classes that have no escape in PVP IMO. I actually don't see the big deal any more. Blocks ALL resource return now.

    Early game its quite a lot to ask for toons with low mount speed
  • mocap
    mocap
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    in PvP you can run some distraction with Mist form and Aetherial Ascension set. 40k+ resistances, Swift and/or CP speed passives if possible, Wild hunt ring. Just roll around gathering agro, while your zerg killing enemies xd
    Edited by mocap on November 27, 2021 3:00PM
  • hakan
    hakan
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    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
    In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
    I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?

    They said it in patch notes which is also tru for critical chance nerfs that they dont want veteran content to be easy. People dodged a lot of mechanics with this ability so they removed its effect for pve.
  • EmperorIl
    EmperorIl
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    nejcn001 wrote: »
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    Welcome to Deadlands meta....where no one dies unless a zerg focuses them....even then sometimes it takes 5 minutes. I have had multiple deathmatch BGs time out where no team scored above 300 because it was so hard to kill everyone. This meta is dumb.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    EmperorIl wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    Welcome to Deadlands meta....where no one dies unless a zerg focuses them....even then sometimes it takes 5 minutes. I have had multiple deathmatch BGs time out where no team scored above 300 because it was so hard to kill everyone. This meta is dumb.

    Would you do a battleground with me? Because I'd like to watch you survive against just four other players (forget a zerg) and never die?

    You can send your character name to my message box and let me know a time that is convenient for you, and I'll invite you. Because I've never seen this "deadlands meta" you are talking about that doesn't die unless an entire zerg focuses them.
    Edited by Jeremy on November 27, 2021 9:11PM
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    Why do people have to die for there to be PvP?

    If you are fighting someone and they make a retreat using Mist Form there was still PvP...

    Then why are there points in deathmatch BG that counts deaths?

    PVP becomes this:
    https://media.istockphoto.com/vectors/vector-illustration-of-kids-playing-pillow-fight-vector-id956106594?k=20&m=956106594&s=170667a&w=0&h=0Vju79BQTOWF2A34ozHKNy2wq7o9Zj9gyZHhMtn-c2s=

    So if people are playing baseball and no one scores that means they aren't playing baseball?

    That's a strange way to look at things if you ask me.

    Either way, it's extremely rare - almost nonexistent - for people not to score any points in Deathmatch. I think I've seen that once in all of my time playing this game, and that was just because everyone stayed at their base.

    Anyway, when it comes to Mist Form - if it's giving you that much trouble - you might want to try using oblivion damage. It goes right through it. Though honestly the move is not that great. You have to have a ton of speed combined with stealth for it be an effective escape move. Otherwise it's only good for short retreats so you can reposition with nearby allies.
    Edited by Jeremy on November 27, 2021 9:33PM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    phaneub17_ESO wrote: »
    Did they fix the pet damage issue where things like Blast Bones does full damage to mist form?

    No, it's still pointless in PvP to. Until they fix that issue with it I won't even run the ability in PvP since NB's, Sorcs, Wardens, Necros, and any class running a set like Maw of the Infernal just straight up ignores Mistform.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    hakan wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
    In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
    I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?

    They said it in patch notes which is also tru for critical chance nerfs that they dont want veteran content to be easy. People dodged a lot of mechanics with this ability so they removed its effect for pve.

    And - with mist form at proposed 50% dmg reduction - what would be the difference to holding block?
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    hakan wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
    In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
    I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?

    They said it in patch notes which is also tru for critical chance nerfs that they dont want veteran content to be easy. People dodged a lot of mechanics with this ability so they removed its effect for pve.

    And - with mist form at proposed 50% dmg reduction - what would be the difference to holding block?

    Mistform was special since it mitigates things block did not. Why it got nerfed out of "PvE" in the first place. But PvE exists in PvP to so it's just been an all round massive nerf to the ability that's already been nerfed a ton of times.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    hakan wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
    In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
    I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?

    They said it in patch notes which is also tru for critical chance nerfs that they dont want veteran content to be easy. People dodged a lot of mechanics with this ability so they removed its effect for pve.

    And - with mist form at proposed 50% dmg reduction - what would be the difference to holding block?

    Mistform was special since it mitigates things block did not. Why it got nerfed out of "PvE" in the first place. But PvE exists in PvP to so it's just been an all round massive nerf to the ability that's already been nerfed a ton of times.

    Agreed. The ability has already been nerfed so much it's barely useful as it is. Any more nerfs and I'll be taking it off my bar and getting rid of my Vampire. Enough is enough.
  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
    hakan wrote: »
    nejcn001 wrote: »
    Its nerf to PVE is just weird.
    In PVP, ppl rush into group of 4, ulti, do 2-3 combos and run away with Mist.
    I've had plenty of BG matches that ended with less than 200 points because of healer meta and non healers running away with Mist.
    There is no PVP if ppl don't die.

    What about nerf Mist to 40-50% and make it usable in PVE also?

    They said it in patch notes which is also tru for critical chance nerfs that they dont want veteran content to be easy. People dodged a lot of mechanics with this ability so they removed its effect for pve.

    And - with mist form at proposed 50% dmg reduction - what would be the difference to holding block?

    Mistform was special since it mitigates things block did not. Why it got nerfed out of "PvE" in the first place. But PvE exists in PvP to so it's just been an all round massive nerf to the ability that's already been nerfed a ton of times.

    Agreed. The ability has already been nerfed so much it's barely useful as it is. Any more nerfs and I'll be taking it off my bar and getting rid of my Vampire. Enough is enough.

    Agreed. Vampire is in a pretty crummy state as it is, making mist form useless in PVE just makes it...well even more crummy.
  • Caligamy_ESO
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    I hate to say it but... Wrobel's vampire was better.
    love is love
  • WraithShadow13
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    For me, personally, they've really just bungled the vampire revamp and this is just another key note in that. I get that there are other powers in the skill tree that do the same thing as some abilities, but they're already punishing vampire players enough by negating a full stat (health regen) and making it so you can't interact with most vendors (which i actually liked), but making a power specifically a PvP ability makes no sense, even if it were from the PvP trees.

    Out of all the powers that got changed in the reVamp, this was the only one that i used, since it made a good "OH $#!T" button, and the ultimate's visual form was just too crap for me (again, personally) making me lose out on my beloved bat swarm ult.


    I forget who the guy was, but when they were doing the big reveals for the Vampire updates, he flat out said that he felt that vampires should be punished for choosing to be vampires, and it looks like he is sticking to that statement.


    Like a lot of the other Vampire changes, this one isn't lore-friendly and it just makes no sense. I half expect our characters to burst into flames in daylight, with how much they're sticking it to the vamps (i'm kidding on that) but really, what is even the point of the power now, if they're just going to be flippant and take away the entire defensive mechanic of it?
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