Battlegrounds should deplete Ultimate...

CaptainVenom

...When player is teleported to the match. Some players such as WW always benefit from going with transform ready and stay that way the entire match with a kinda permanent ultimate. In some competitive games such as Overwatch, for instance, everyone always start with 0 ultimate and have to build it through combat. Feels to me this would be fair for everyone.

Casul

Or everyone could start with 500 ult hmmmm?????

Chrysa1is

I want to get the Aetherial Well especially for this, so I can join battlegrounds suited and booted!

Honestly, I think that making players start with Ult/NoUlt would break a key purpose of the Aetherial Well and ruin it's potential.

I think it should stay how it is now; left up to the player. Making sure you have max ult before you start battlegrounds is no different to swapping skills or changing champion bar abilities around before starting it also.

npuk

It's no different than going in with a food buff on or not, if a player doesn't prepare their char before going in by making sure it has food/charged weapons/repaired gear/pots/ult then that's on the player.

npuk

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I want to get the Aetherial Well especially for this, so I can join battlegrounds suited and booted!

It's well worth it, I use mine more than anything else in my house.

Grandchamp1989

Everyone benefit from going into BG with max ulti xD Not just WW.

If you don't you're kinda gimping yourself.

Vevvev

BuildMan wrote: »

Or everyone could start with 500 ult hmmmm?????

Going back to my house or punching a bunch of things to get ultimate is time consuming so I'd very much like this. Lets everyone start at the same playing field to.

etchedpixels

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I want to get the Aetherial Well especially for this, so I can join battlegrounds suited and booted!

Honestly, I think that making players start with Ult/NoUlt would break a key purpose of the Aetherial Well and ruin it's potential.

Good. You shouldn't have to pay a load of crowns to be able to get an advantage in BGs. I'm not sure 0 works - it would make things like the bear pet versus other ultimates a bit weird but max or zero would be better than "I've spent crowns".

trackdemon5512

Because Mario Kart, Overwatch, Call of Duty, Smash Bros all allow you to start with Blue Shells, Nukes, and Ultimates.

Seriously IDK why this game lets you enter a BG with a full ultimate. Another inherently broken thing ZOS refused to fix. Other competitive games with rules don’t allow such a thing.

GetAgrippa

etchedpixels wrote: »

Good. You shouldn't have to pay a load of crowns to be able to get an advantage in BGs. I'm not sure 0 works - it would make things like the bear pet versus other ultimates a bit weird but max or zero would be better than "I've spent crowns".

I distinctly remember being able to build ult before the aetherial well was ever a thing. So it's not like without it you have to enter every bg with zero ult.

The problem with starting with zero ult is it gives a distinct disadvantage to anyone with an expensive ult at the beginning of the bg. Anyone using crescent sweep or even dawnbreaker will have their ult ready faster than someone using northern storm or destro ult or ww for instance.

TequilaFire

Should we also start our with no stam/magicka regen? oh wait that is a bug. lol
Or maybe drop out of the sky and have to pick up all our weapons and armor?

trackdemon5512

TequilaFire wrote: »

Should we also start our with no stam/magicka regen? oh wait that is a bug. lol
Or maybe drop out of the sky and have to pick up all our weapons and armor?

See you jest but that’s done specifically for the sake of game balance.

The intention of an Ultimate is for it to be built up and used at the opportune time. Cost versus benefit. For every other game mode having an ultimate pre-battle isn’t bad because the engagement is designed to be short and uncontrolled.

Battlegrounds are supposed to be controlled. Ideally matches should start with teams with equal members and balanced load outs. ZOS still doesn’t do this and the effects show. The only ones in BGs these days are those that don’t mind exploiting the broken system.

TequilaFire

The problem is WW to some it seems. You have to be in WW form to use any of your WW abilities unlike Vampire.
So maybe WW toggle should not be an ultimate so abilities would be "balanced" with Vampire.

CaptainVenom

TequilaFire wrote: »

The problem is WW to some it seems. You have to be in WW form to use any of your WW abilities unlike Vampire.
So maybe WW toggle should not be an ultimate so abilities would be "balanced" with Vampire.

Not really... I'm WW as well. And I think I should not be able to transform right away.

drsalvation

Yeah, you should be ready to start with ultimate before BG's, queue times take up a lot of time so just beat your target dummy at home with light attacks and get yourself ready.
The startup time before each match is not for you to get ready (but it works as such anyway), it's to get players joined. Before that, you have all the time in the world to buff up, pile up ult, get your gear in check, charge your weapons, eat or drink something, and hallelujah blast your ult the very first second you see someone and score first blood, or whatever you wanna do with it.
There's really no reason to force start to 0.

drsalvation

TequilaFire wrote: »

The problem is WW to some it seems. You have to be in WW form to use any of your WW abilities unlike Vampire.
So maybe WW toggle should not be an ultimate so abilities would be "balanced" with Vampire.

As for that, if anything, I think vampire should be a toggle thing like WW, imagine being able to sustain vampire lord the same way you can sustain a werewolf, that would be sick.

Vevvev

drsalvation wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

The problem is WW to some it seems. You have to be in WW form to use any of your WW abilities unlike Vampire.
So maybe WW toggle should not be an ultimate so abilities would be "balanced" with Vampire.

As for that, if anything, I think vampire should be a toggle thing like WW, imagine being able to sustain vampire lord the same way you can sustain a werewolf, that would be sick.

Blood Scion*

Amottica

I agree as it leads to a more balanced playing field to start. The other option is everyone start with full ult points but that is not the best avenue for TTK reasons.

lolo_01b16_ESO

One issue with depleting ultimate when you teleport in is that some classes are way better at generating ultimate out of combat than others. So if they would add this to the game, you could be certain that in every match the necros will be the first players to have their ultimate ready. They might even get it ready before they encounter the first enemy.

trackdemon5512

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

One issue with depleting ultimate when you teleport in is that some classes are way better at generating ultimate out of combat than others. So if they would add this to the game, you could be certain that in every match the necros will be the first players to have their ultimate ready. They might even get it ready before they encounter the first enemy.

There are classes, races, gear, etc to help you gain Ulti faster. The point being made here is that EVERYONE should start out equal. Full health bars, no Ultimate.

Build up your ultimate however you want but coming out of the gate with a team full of dawnbreakers isn’t really as fair as you may think. Or a full team if werewolves. They’re ultimates for a reason, they’re supposed to be brief but extremely powerful. In BGs starting with one can easily throw the entire match off.

BGs has a LONG way to go to make them fun and balanced. Starting off with 0 ultimate for every player is just one thing in that direction. The little things add up.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if Deathmatches had the temporary invincibility that they added to IC sewers when you leave the base. It would help put a stop to battles centering around the spawn points.

SkaraMinoc

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Everyone benefit from going into BG with max ulti xD Not just WW.

If you don't you're kinda gimping yourself.

Entering BG with 500 Ultimate as Mag Sorc guarantees at least 5 kills w/ Power Overload against non-premades.

Huge advantage.

xeNNNNN

BuildMan wrote: »

Or everyone could start with 500 ult hmmmm?????

That would be interesting actually, get the match roaring immediately. Werewolves are not unstoppable either, in fact most builds are built around playing as a werewolf, thats kind of the point. So I am frankly fine as them running around slapping things. If they're having fun thats great. I don't really have a problem with werewolves at all.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

...When player is teleported to the match. Some players such as WW always benefit from going with transform ready and stay that way the entire match with a kinda permanent ultimate. In some competitive games such as Overwatch, for instance, everyone always start with 0 ultimate and have to build it through combat. Feels to me this would be fair for everyone.

As far as using overwatch as a competitive example, meh. Until this game gets some form of ranked queue, there is really no reason to treat it competitively. There is a foundation for competitive play here but until the servers are better and players aren't gimped by ability lag. We would also need a complete split of balance. there is no point taking PvP that seriously in all honesty. Until those changes occur at least.

When I look at the teams and I see no sorcs in my team and then all the sorcs in the other teams, I just laugh because I know I am basically dead. Not because I can't kill them, but because their sheer presence is so incredibly gross that I simply I know we will either lose or it will be a close game, not because of skill. But because they have sorcs and we dont. Which isn't a healthy experience at all for anyone even the sorcs. (Another reason balance should be completely split)

trackdemon5512

xeNNNNN wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Or everyone could start with 500 ult hmmmm?????

That would be interesting actually, get the match roaring immediately. Werewolves are not unstoppable either, in fact most builds are built around playing as a werewolf, thats kind of the point. So I am frankly fine as them running around slapping things. If they're having fun thats great. I don't really have a problem with werewolves at all.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

...When player is teleported to the match. Some players such as WW always benefit from going with transform ready and stay that way the entire match with a kinda permanent ultimate. In some competitive games such as Overwatch, for instance, everyone always start with 0 ultimate and have to build it through combat. Feels to me this would be fair for everyone.

As far as using overwatch as a competitive example, meh. Until this game gets some form of ranked queue, there is really no reason to treat it competitively. There is a foundation for competitive play here but until the servers are better and players aren't gimped by ability lag. We would also need a complete split of balance. there is no point taking PvP that seriously in all honesty. Until those changes occur at least.

When I look at the teams and I see no sorcs in my team and then all the sorcs in the other teams, I just laugh because I know I am basically dead. Not because I can't kill them, but because their sheer presence is so incredibly gross that I simply I know we will either lose or it will be a close game, not because of skill. But because they have sorcs and we dont. Which isn't a healthy experience at all for anyone even the sorcs. (Another reason balance should be completely split)

Werewolves are great PVE-wise. But the compromises made so that players could role play perpetually in Werewolf form are incredibly stupid from a competitive standpoint. It’s an ULTIMATE.

Every other ultimate in the game is balanced to have a small immediate time effect and a cost to build up again and again. Werewolves stay in a heightened powered up combat form for an excessively long time. Even being a vampire doesn’t allow you to remain in Blood Scion form almost indefinitely.

If the game were treated better with more respect towards fair competitiveness then more people may actually play BGs. As it stands right now ESO in either just PVE overland or Cyrodiil populations would be enough to sustain the game population wise. BGs on the other hand has had and continues to have a population that alone would have called for the game to be shut down years ago.

FeedbackOnly

I kinda think it's fair to reward the prepared

wolfie1.0.

I think Zos should just get rid ot battlegrounds and make a battle Royale mode where you have to pick up your skill points, gear, cp perks, and mounts while you roam around trying to kill everyone...

Zabagad

When I read your pros and cons I guess maybe the most fair solution could be, that everybody starts with the ulti he/she/it left last BG?
As I don't do BGs I'm not sure if there are possible exploits (at the end or at the beginning maybe?) - but if that's not a thing, I guess this could be fair.
It would cost one more value to store for ZOS (per char or per account?) and shouldn't be a big issue.

Treeshka

Well since every ultimate cost is different in game therefore entering a match should deplete the ultimate.

M0ntie

IMO No. Just be sure to fill your ulti before you enter.

lolo_01b16_ESO

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

One issue with depleting ultimate when you teleport in is that some classes are way better at generating ultimate out of combat than others. So if they would add this to the game, you could be certain that in every match the necros will be the first players to have their ultimate ready. They might even get it ready before they encounter the first enemy.

There are classes, races, gear, etc to help you gain Ulti faster. The point being made here is that EVERYONE should start out equal. Full health bars, no Ultimate.

Build up your ultimate however you want but coming out of the gate with a team full of dawnbreakers isn’t really as fair as you may think. Or a full team if werewolves. They’re ultimates for a reason, they’re supposed to be brief but extremely powerful. In BGs starting with one can easily throw the entire match off.

BGs has a LONG way to go to make them fun and balanced. Starting off with 0 ultimate for every player is just one thing in that direction. The little things add up.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if Deathmatches had the temporary invincibility that they added to IC sewers when you leave the base. It would help put a stop to battles centering around the spawn points.

You are aware that I was talking about "out of combat" ultimate generation? I just did a quick test and I can tell you that the time between porting into the battleground and engaging the first enemy is enough on my necro to get from 0 ultimate to the 125 I need for dawnbreaker.

trackdemon5512

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

One issue with depleting ultimate when you teleport in is that some classes are way better at generating ultimate out of combat than others. So if they would add this to the game, you could be certain that in every match the necros will be the first players to have their ultimate ready. They might even get it ready before they encounter the first enemy.

There are classes, races, gear, etc to help you gain Ulti faster. The point being made here is that EVERYONE should start out equal. Full health bars, no Ultimate.

Build up your ultimate however you want but coming out of the gate with a team full of dawnbreakers isn’t really as fair as you may think. Or a full team if werewolves. They’re ultimates for a reason, they’re supposed to be brief but extremely powerful. In BGs starting with one can easily throw the entire match off.

BGs has a LONG way to go to make them fun and balanced. Starting off with 0 ultimate for every player is just one thing in that direction. The little things add up.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if Deathmatches had the temporary invincibility that they added to IC sewers when you leave the base. It would help put a stop to battles centering around the spawn points.

You are aware that I was talking about "out of combat" ultimate generation? I just did a quick test and I can tell you that the time between porting into the battleground and engaging the first enemy is enough on my necro to get from 0 ultimate to the 125 I need for dawnbreaker.

Well this also brings to light another competitive change to be made for both BGs and Cyrodiil: DOUBLING THE COST OF ULTIMATES

Much like sustain has become a non issue for players, so much so that it effectively broke the system that did calculations for Cyrodiil and introduced much of the combat lag we currently see (ESO developers have attested to this in the past), Ultimates are just as broken.

Ultimates were designed to be tools of opportunity. Build it up, use it at the opportune time to inflict maximum effect in an unbalanced way. But Ultimate generation today is too fast, esp for organized competition. So much so that Shalks+Dawnbreaker was a norm attack basically on just wardens, not to say what other ultimates and classes would do.

- reset ultimates to ZERO upon entering a BG
- double the cost of ultimates in PVP

If ultimate generation isn’t much of a problem as you say this isn’t that severe of a change. It would also stop these Templars from spamming their invincible healing ulti on groups, Colossi running through Capture the Relic matches, and werewolves popping up like Pez.

TequilaFire

Yeah let's stack the deck for Dk, Warden and Necro. smh