How is new collection feature going to affect jewelry farming?

EF321

So, I have a done all the dungeons many times, and I have all the body and jewelry pieces collected, but missing many weapons still. Even in some base game dungeons I have some where I am missing 18 weapons for some reason. Does this mean that in order to get jewelry drops from final boss, I will have to collect every other piece first, and only then I will have a chance for a jewelry drop from final boss?

When new DLC dungeon drops, You will not have a chance for second ring until you farmed entirety of items that dungeon has to offer?


Really not looking forward to spend transmutes + zircon for something that drops every other run now.

fizl101

Bosses will only drop as a weighted drop things that will drop as a priority. For example, if you only get weapons and jewellery from the final boss, then you will get a unique piece from that boss until you have all those pieces, then it will be RNG. It won't require you to get the armour pieces if they don't drop from that boss

oterWitz

It's been asked before if bosses will still drop their named set pieces, like Agata's Signet in BC1. I'm not sure if there's an answer floating around yet, but that is one possible solution. Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Second: for new dungeons, or any really, the option remains to trade jewelry or other set pieces, and I hope people still do it. For example, I'd happily give a healer an extra ring for a healing set rather than binding/collecting it for myself, or give a tank a shield so they could complete their tank set faster, which I do anyway on live servers and with this patch I'll just be guaranteed to get the item again so it matters even less to me.

Then there's also the possibility of getting jewelry from chests which, as someone who has done a lot of dungeon chest farming in the past, I believe are weighted slightly toward jewelry compared to other pieces. Though that's only anecdotal.

EF321

oterWitz wrote: »

Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Eh, this is not good. Collecting all the weapons in fixed amount of runs is cool, but jewelry is expensive to reconstruct. Unless they finally change system so you reconstruct in best quality set piece ever dropped to you. Like, in vSS perfected jewelry is only gold, so it it reconstructed in gold, but if you get gold piece from vMoL, you can still only reconstruct blue.

Would be great if highest dropped and bound quality would be saved to your collection, but not counting upgraded yourself.

karekiz

EF321 wrote: »

oterWitz wrote: »

Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Eh, this is not good. Collecting all the weapons in fixed amount of runs is cool, but jewelry is expensive to reconstruct. Unless they finally change system so you reconstruct in best quality set piece ever dropped to you. Like, in vSS perfected jewelry is only gold, so it it reconstructed in gold, but if you get gold piece from vMoL, you can still only reconstruct blue.

Would be great if highest dropped and bound quality would be saved to your collection, but not counting upgraded yourself.

Chests ignore the loot rules IIRC. VMoL you can get rings etc from the chests, same with dungeons.

kojou

I feel like waiting for my collection to be filled before getting a second ring is a bit of a "first world problem" which is way better than running hundreds of times for that flame staff that never drops.

Also... if the item is a perfected item that drops from a trial it can be reconstructed in gold for only the cost of transmute crystals.

EF321

karekiz wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

oterWitz wrote: »

Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Eh, this is not good. Collecting all the weapons in fixed amount of runs is cool, but jewelry is expensive to reconstruct. Unless they finally change system so you reconstruct in best quality set piece ever dropped to you. Like, in vSS perfected jewelry is only gold, so it it reconstructed in gold, but if you get gold piece from vMoL, you can still only reconstruct blue.

Would be great if highest dropped and bound quality would be saved to your collection, but not counting upgraded yourself.

Chests ignore the loot rules IIRC. VMoL you can get rings etc from the chests, same with dungeons.

You can't get gold rings from chests in trials. Gold only drops from final boss. Yet in some trials you can reconstruct jewelry already in gold quality with no gold mat investment (SS perfected, KA perfected for example), but in trials like MoL or HoF you can only reconstruct jewelry in blue, which means that you won't even have a chance for another gold ring until you run trial like 40 times.

ealdwin

EF321 wrote: »

oterWitz wrote: »

Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Eh, this is not good. Collecting all the weapons in fixed amount of runs is cool, but jewelry is expensive to reconstruct. Unless they finally change system so you reconstruct in best quality set piece ever dropped to you. Like, in vSS perfected jewelry is only gold, so it it reconstructed in gold, but if you get gold piece from vMoL, you can still only reconstruct blue.

Would be great if highest dropped and bound quality would be saved to your collection, but not counting upgraded yourself.

I also wouldn't mind seeing an increase in the likelihood and sources of mat-upgrade materials as a nice quality of life improvement for crafters.

kojou

EF321 wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

oterWitz wrote: »

Otherwise, the answer to your first question is yes: the final boss of those dungeons in which you already have jewelry won't drop it again until your sets are complete.

Eh, this is not good. Collecting all the weapons in fixed amount of runs is cool, but jewelry is expensive to reconstruct. Unless they finally change system so you reconstruct in best quality set piece ever dropped to you. Like, in vSS perfected jewelry is only gold, so it it reconstructed in gold, but if you get gold piece from vMoL, you can still only reconstruct blue.

Would be great if highest dropped and bound quality would be saved to your collection, but not counting upgraded yourself.

Chests ignore the loot rules IIRC. VMoL you can get rings etc from the chests, same with dungeons.

You can't get gold rings from chests in trials. Gold only drops from final boss. Yet in some trials you can reconstruct jewelry already in gold quality with no gold mat investment (SS perfected, KA perfected for example), but in trials like MoL or HoF you can only reconstruct jewelry in blue, which means that you won't even have a chance for another gold ring until you run trial like 40 times.

I would argue that all of the trials should get perfected jewelry that only drops in gold to solve this issue before I would propose a change that ruins the RNG escape hatch we have been given.

HugoG92

EF321 wrote: »

You can't get gold rings from chests in trials. Gold only drops from final boss. Yet in some trials you can reconstruct jewelry already in gold quality with no gold mat investment (SS perfected, KA perfected for example), but in trials like MoL or HoF you can only reconstruct jewelry in blue, which means that you won't even have a chance for another gold ring until you run trial like 40 times.

Not really. You forgot that the item pool won't change, so that means that bosses for the trials you mentioned that always drops 1 weapon 1 gold jewelry piece on vet and 1 weapon 2 jewelry pieces on hardmode will drop a different weapon each time you finish it and 1/2 piece of jewelry that you don't have. Considering that trials always have 4 different sets, after 8 vet completes or 4 HMs the jewelry drop pool would be randomized again.

merpins

It should honestly just be a toggle. Do you want to prioritize new set pieces? Toggle the option on. Do you want pure RNG with no priority like before? Toggle it off.

UntilValhalla13

HugoG92 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

You can't get gold rings from chests in trials. Gold only drops from final boss. Yet in some trials you can reconstruct jewelry already in gold quality with no gold mat investment (SS perfected, KA perfected for example), but in trials like MoL or HoF you can only reconstruct jewelry in blue, which means that you won't even have a chance for another gold ring until you run trial like 40 times.

Not really. You forgot that the item pool won't change, so that means that bosses for the trials you mentioned that always drops 1 weapon 1 gold jewelry piece on vet and 1 weapon 2 jewelry pieces on hardmode will drop a different weapon each time you finish it and 1/2 piece of jewelry that you don't have. Considering that trials always have 4 different sets, after 8 vet completes or 4 HMs the jewelry drop pool would be randomized again.

Unfortunately, for the newer vet trials, you get either a weapon OR a piece of jewelry, and not both. That's what makes running them a slog now. So, you MIGHT get that gold Bahsei ring or you might get every weapon from the stam set, before you see any jewelry at all. I wish they had loot drops like the previous trials, where you got both.

Ratzkifal

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It should honestly just be a toggle. Do you want to prioritize new set pieces? Toggle the option on. Do you want pure RNG with no priority like before? Toggle it off.

That is honestly the best solution. If I need two daggers, I don't want to have to farm the entire dungeon until I get another dagger. I hope that a toggle is actually possible.

MashmalloMan

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It should honestly just be a toggle. Do you want to prioritize new set pieces? Toggle the option on. Do you want pure RNG with no priority like before? Toggle it off.

That is honestly the best solution. If I need two daggers, I don't want to have to farm the entire dungeon until I get another dagger. I hope that a toggle is actually possible.

I mean.. if you get one, you should really just use Transmute crystals to create another one.

It's usually easier to just reconstruct items than farm them seeing as most people who play frequently have a reserve of Transmutes they haven't used.

Plus.. it's pretty unlikely you'll get it in the trait you want in the first place, you're probably going to spend 50 transmutes to change that anyway.

EF321

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It should honestly just be a toggle. Do you want to prioritize new set pieces? Toggle the option on. Do you want pure RNG with no priority like before? Toggle it off.

That is honestly the best solution. If I need two daggers, I don't want to have to farm the entire dungeon until I get another dagger. I hope that a toggle is actually possible.

I mean.. if you get one, you should really just use Transmute crystals to create another one.

It's usually easier to just reconstruct items than farm them seeing as most people who play frequently have a reserve of Transmutes they haven't used.

Plus.. it's pretty unlikely you'll get it in the trait you want in the first place, you're probably going to spend 50 transmutes to change that anyway.

With DW weapons it is easy, since blacksmithing upgrade mats are cheap. But my concern is jewelry, since jewelry upgrade mats are not cheap at all.

No way I' d like to spend 3 zircon platings and transmutes on top of it for something that drops every other run now. I have no internal knowledge of how it works, but it feels like it first rolls "jewelry or weapons" with 50/50 chances, than rolls for specific gear piece from selected category, that is why it is extremely easy to farm full dungeon jewelry sets now, as drops are very common. And this is why it is so hard to farm all the weapons, since they compete with jewelry in 50/50 rolls and there are a lot more weapon types. New system will make it easier to farm weapons, but way harder to farm jewelry, until you do enough "collection" runs.

NettleCarrier

I think the pros outweigh the cons in every example provided in this thread. There's of course stuff like Medusa which drops in healthy so you've gotta spend transmutes anyway. There's always slight workarounds like farming with a buddy, or farming with someone who is only missing jewelry or a few pieces that include jewelry. Heck, in shorter dungeons you can run the whole thing a few times before the jewelry binds itself to you. I even think (of course I haven't tested this on purpose) you can even log off that character that has the unbound ring with the timer and run the dungeon on a different character because it shouldn't bind until you log into the first one again. I'm sure there's some things I haven't thought of yet.

DrSlaughtr

It just reinforces being nice to your pugs so they will trade you stuff they don't want or need.

redspecter23

There will definitely be less jewelry in the loot rotation in dungeons. This means you'll typically need to reconstruct your second piece (or more if you need it on alts). I can't think of any situation where the last piece you'll need from that end boss will be a jewelry piece. You'll have long collected the jewel pieces before you get all the weapons and enable jewel drops again.

While this does make jewelry collection a bit more difficult, it's a tradeoff many players would be willing to make to ensure they get their weapons a bit easier.

The ability to toggle off "smart loot" seems like a decent compromise for those that don't want to run a dungeon 40ish times before they can start pulling jewels again.

ajkb78

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It should honestly just be a toggle. Do you want to prioritize new set pieces? Toggle the option on. Do you want pure RNG with no priority like before? Toggle it off.

That is honestly the best solution. If I need two daggers, I don't want to have to farm the entire dungeon until I get another dagger. I hope that a toggle is actually possible.

Quicker and easier just to farm 5 random normals and reconstruct a second dagger rather than farming a second one.

DrSlaughtr

The grain system needs to be adjusted but they won't because the plating sellers would get upset.

Xebov

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The grain system needs to be adjusted but they won't because the plating sellers would get upset.

Thats a myth. If the grain system is changed you will likely get more plates out of the same amount of resources, which means that plates get cheaper and become mass sold, which is a good thing for players and would have little impact on the income of sellers at all.

DrSlaughtr

Xebov wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The grain system needs to be adjusted but they won't because the plating sellers would get upset.

Thats a myth. If the grain system is changed you will likely get more plates out of the same amount of resources, which means that plates get cheaper and become mass sold, which is a good thing for players and would have little impact on the income of sellers at all.

I made a thread about this under crafting a month or two ago and it immediately filled up with angry people.

I agree that the sales would balance out. Unfortunately the people who max out crafting writs every day don't want it to change.

ANewHand

EF321 wrote: »

Really not looking forward to spend transmutes + zircon for something that drops every other run now.

I'm sure every person who's posted on reddit that they finally got their first Burning Spellweave inferno staff (powered, 50 crystals to transmute) after the 60th CoA run would wholeheartedly sympathize with your plight. The absolute grind or farming a few more times (no more, since drops are guaranteed) a dungeon you've already done countless times in the past year so you can fully complete your collection before you get jewelry drops because you want to save 100k on zircon plating.

You could alternatively, for instance, do one (1) vet DLC dungeon, get a motif page to sell for ~100k, buy your zircon, and get bloodthirsty/infused jewelry for 50% of the transmute cost?

I, for one, welcome our new RNGesus overlord 🙏

YandereGirlfriend

ANewHand wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Really not looking forward to spend transmutes + zircon for something that drops every other run now.

I'm sure every person who's posted on reddit that they finally got their first Burning Spellweave inferno staff (powered, 50 crystals to transmute) after the 60th CoA run would wholeheartedly sympathize with your plight. The absolute grind or farming a few more times (no more, since drops are guaranteed) a dungeon you've already done countless times in the past year so you can fully complete your collection before you get jewelry drops because you want to save 100k on zircon plating.

You could alternatively, for instance, do one (1) vet DLC dungeon, get a motif page to sell for ~100k, buy your zircon, and get bloodthirsty/infused jewelry for 50% of the transmute cost?

I, for one, welcome our new RNGesus overlord 🙏

Absolutely agree.

Xebov

ANewHand wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Really not looking forward to spend transmutes + zircon for something that drops every other run now.

I'm sure every person who's posted on reddit that they finally got their first Burning Spellweave inferno staff (powered, 50 crystals to transmute) after the 60th CoA run would wholeheartedly sympathize with your plight. The absolute grind or farming a few more times (no more, since drops are guaranteed) a dungeon you've already done countless times in the past year so you can fully complete your collection before you get jewelry drops because you want to save 100k on zircon plating.

You could alternatively, for instance, do one (1) vet DLC dungeon, get a motif page to sell for ~100k, buy your zircon, and get bloodthirsty/infused jewelry for 50% of the transmute cost?

I, for one, welcome our new RNGesus overlord 🙏

Not only this, given that a second ring usually requires a couple of runs there are faster ways to earn money outside of dungeons too.

Wolf_Eye

Is it confirmed that the new system guarantees a drop you haven't gotten yet, or is it only a chance? Because if it's only a chance, then it's still possible to get jewelry even though you haven't gotten the stickerbook filled out.

Treeshka

I believe the sticker book comes fully collected in the test server, and testing prioritized drop system is impossible due to this feature. I mentioned it because, i also want to learn if i am going to get guaranteed drops for my missing pieces.

Wolf_Eye

Treeshka wrote: »

I believe the sticker book comes fully collected in the test server, and testing prioritized drop system is impossible due to this feature. I mentioned it because, i also want to learn if i am going to get guaranteed drops for my missing pieces.

This is what is said in their patch notes: "preferentially drop set items that have not yet been unlocked in your Item Set Collections!". And also it says: "it should be much easier to find items that you have not yet unlocked."

"Preferentially" does not sound the same as "guaranteed".

I know people want to believe that they're now going to be guaranteed those fancy Medusa staves they've been craving all this time, but grinding is the bread and butter of any and all MMOs. In other words, I interpret their comments on this system to give us a BETTER chance of getting something we've never had before, but not a GUARANTEED chance.

So I think OP is safe; we'll still be able to get jewelry at decent rates even if you haven't collected all the sticker book items yet. Besides, as others have said, this only applies to bosses; not chests or regular mobs. So maybe this would be a good incentive to get people to stop rushing through dungeons and ignoring all chests and trash mobs.

(Apologies if I'm misinterpreting what the OP is concerned about; I'm half asleep at the moment)

EF321

Soooooo, I did RND, rolled dungeon where I don't have a couple of weapons collected. It ended and I got the ring...

So it first rolls jewelry or weapon, THEN item out of what you don't have. There is no "fixed" amount of runs to get all the stuff...

DrSlaughtr

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I believe the sticker book comes fully collected in the test server, and testing prioritized drop system is impossible due to this feature. I mentioned it because, i also want to learn if i am going to get guaranteed drops for my missing pieces.

This is what is said in their patch notes: "preferentially drop set items that have not yet been unlocked in your Item Set Collections!". And also it says: "it should be much easier to find items that you have not yet unlocked."

"Preferentially" does not sound the same as "guaranteed".

I know people want to believe that they're now going to be guaranteed those fancy Medusa staves they've been craving all this time, but grinding is the bread and butter of any and all MMOs. In other words, I interpret their comments on this system to give us a BETTER chance of getting something we've never had before, but not a GUARANTEED chance.

So I think OP is safe; we'll still be able to get jewelry at decent rates even if you haven't collected all the sticker book items yet. Besides, as others have said, this only applies to bosses; not chests or regular mobs. So maybe this would be a good incentive to get people to stop rushing through dungeons and ignoring all chests and trash mobs.

(Apologies if I'm misinterpreting what the OP is concerned about; I'm half asleep at the moment)

I like that we have to analyze the intended use of a specific word in an update. Lol

As you said, perhaps they meant more favorably. Unfortunately I think everyone assumed that you'd get what you were missing first and foremost.