Quick Note on Brittle and Elemental Catalyst

CP5

Been seeing these mentioned in a lot of crit based discussion and, while I don't have the pts downloaded and can't check for sure, unless someone can go onto pts and prove this one way or the other, both of these 'crit damage sources' are debuffs applied to the enemy after your own outgoing critical damage is determined, meaning that neither are impacted by the crit damage cap. Just wanted to mention that in one place rather than in multiple topics.

Grandchamp1989

CP5 wrote: »

Been seeing these mentioned in a lot of crit based discussion and, while I don't have the pts downloaded and can't check for sure, unless someone can go onto pts and prove this one way or the other, both of these 'crit damage sources' are debuffs applied to the enemy after your own outgoing critical damage is determined, meaning that neither are impacted by the crit damage cap. Just wanted to mention that in one place rather than in multiple topics.

Well, since your crit damage can't go over 125% it shouldn't matter if crit is added from a debuff or buff. It still can't go over 125% I believe.

Sordidfairytale

PTS is still "offline" for me so can't verify, I had the same thought though.

CP5

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Been seeing these mentioned in a lot of crit based discussion and, while I don't have the pts downloaded and can't check for sure, unless someone can go onto pts and prove this one way or the other, both of these 'crit damage sources' are debuffs applied to the enemy after your own outgoing critical damage is determined, meaning that neither are impacted by the crit damage cap. Just wanted to mention that in one place rather than in multiple topics.

Well, since your crit damage can't go over 125% it shouldn't matter if crit is added from a debuff or buff. It still can't go over 125% I believe.

First the game gets your outgoing damage, then it calculates the final damage done based on the target. Unique, target specific debuffs only serve to raise the damage number after your outgoing number is calculated, aka EC and brittle are calculated after the critical damage is determined.

MashmalloMan

Hmmm.. I'm questioning this aswell because for pvp, like Penetration/Armor, you're still able to build over that 33k cap if you wanted to counter a targets Armor/Penetration bonuses.

Eg. If you're building for max crit damage, don't stop at 125%, go for 145% since everyone in pvp has at least -20% crit damage taken.

WombatNipples65

Assuming the same right now but depends how they decide to code this 125%.

muh

Sorry, really can not be bothered to look up the source for it since it is probably well over a year ago by now.
I want to say t3hasiangod was involved, but definitely sources I trust. It was tested and EC and brittle (or Critical Damage Taken modifier) are at this time added to your character's critical damage% for damage caluclations and not considered a different multiplier on the target. That might be different on PTS when it goes live, but I doubt it.

Edit:

avgDamage = SkillScaling * (1 + CritChance * (CritDamage + CritDmgTaken)) * (1 + DmgDone) * (1 + DmgTaken) * ExecuteStuff * MitigationStuff

Is what was discovered through testing. So yea, I suppose it is worth testing again on PTS, but still doubt the cap will not include CritDmgTaken.

My guess:

avgDamage = SkillScaling * (1 + CritChance * min((CritDamage + CritDmgTaken), 2.25) * (1 + DmgDone) * (1 + DmgTaken) * MitigationStuff

jaws343

CP5 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Been seeing these mentioned in a lot of crit based discussion and, while I don't have the pts downloaded and can't check for sure, unless someone can go onto pts and prove this one way or the other, both of these 'crit damage sources' are debuffs applied to the enemy after your own outgoing critical damage is determined, meaning that neither are impacted by the crit damage cap. Just wanted to mention that in one place rather than in multiple topics.

Well, since your crit damage can't go over 125% it shouldn't matter if crit is added from a debuff or buff. It still can't go over 125% I believe.

First the game gets your outgoing damage, then it calculates the final damage done based on the target. Unique, target specific debuffs only serve to raise the damage number after your outgoing number is calculated, aka EC and brittle are calculated after the critical damage is determined.

It will likely work the same as armor in PVP works. The damage resistance cap is 33K but you can stack more than that. Your opponent can also stack penetration. If you stack enough resistances to offset your opponents penetration and still be above the armor cap, you will still only mitigate damage at the cap. So even if after penetration you have 40K armor, you are still only mitigating 33K armor worth of damage.

Same will likely apply here. Even though brittle is a debuff, the max damage you can do is 125%. So for PVE no matter how much you stack over 125 or how much your enemy is debuffed, you won't go over 125%.

Trixterion

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hmmm.. I'm questioning this aswell because for pvp, like Penetration/Armor, you're still able to build over that 32k cap if you wanted to counter a targets Armor/Penetration bonuses.

Eg. If you're building for max crit damage, don't stop at 125%, go for 145% since everyone in pvp has at least -20% crit damage taken.

As far as I understand, damage taken is multiplicative, not addictive, therefore:
125%=x*(1-0.2)
x=125%/0.8=156.25%
More precise value should be determined, I am to lazy to calculate actual maximum crit resistance into%.

MashmalloMan

Trixterion wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hmmm.. I'm questioning this aswell because for pvp, like Penetration/Armor, you're still able to build over that 32k cap if you wanted to counter a targets Armor/Penetration bonuses.

Eg. If you're building for max crit damage, don't stop at 125%, go for 145% since everyone in pvp has at least -20% crit damage taken.

As far as I understand, damage taken is multiplicative, not addictive, therefore:
125%=x*(1-0.2)
x=125%/0.8=156.25%
More precise value should be determined, I am to lazy to calculate actual maximum crit resistance into%.

For crit damage/crit resist it's very simple, 1:1.

5 pieces of impen in gold and your base character gives -30% crit damage taken. An attacker with 0 modifiers to crit damage would do 1.2x damage since you start with a 50% crit damage modifier that is reduced by 30%.

Sordidfairytale

Trixterion wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hmmm.. I'm questioning this aswell because for pvp, like Penetration/Armor, you're still able to build over that 32k cap if you wanted to counter a targets Armor/Penetration bonuses.

Eg. If you're building for max crit damage, don't stop at 125%, go for 145% since everyone in pvp has at least -20% crit damage taken.

As far as I understand, damage taken is multiplicative, not addictive, therefore:
125%=x*(1-0.2)
x=125%/0.8=156.25%
More precise value should be determined, I am to lazy to calculate actual maximum crit resistance into%.

The max possible I believe is 92% crit resist. And as far as I know crit damage and crit resist are both additive.