Lack of AOE Taunt

slimwaffle

@Zos this game really badly needs an Aoe taunt.

One that is on a universal skill line. Like inner fire and the undaunted skill line.

Running a Templar and tormentor set is the only way to get an aoe taunt.
The trade off for sacrificing a 5 set or armour to receive an aoe taunt is pain not worth it.

Especially when an aoe taunt is something that should have been in the game from the start.

redspecter23

ESO is designed around the lack of an AOE taunt to an extent. Encounters take that into account when they are designed. There isn't meant to be an easy button to get all aggro on the tank. The intention is that the tank prioritizes targets with taunts while potentially locking smaller threats down and pulling others in with chains.

Adding an AOE taunt at this point would likely come with some major restriction like you see with the Tormentor set. You need to jump through some hoops to make it work. I don't think you'll see a single slot spammable aoe taunt any time soon, though you may see ZOS explore more options with longer cooldown procs on sets perhaps.

merpins

It would need to be an Ultimate, a monster helm set, or 5 piece set, and it would need some prerequisite that is difficult if it's not an Ultimate, and if it is an Ultimate, it would need a ridiculous cost (400, if not max 500). Monster Helm would need something like it procs the taunt and pulls, but reduces your armor or increases the damage you take, or some kind of bad debuff. Even without the pull same deal. For a 5 piece set, same thing. Though they might get away with giving it trash stats for the other bonuses.

Ippokrates

You don't need Templar, you can use Tormentor with any class with stampede. You can open fight with it or first use void s&b and then boom!

I am using it on my Redguard DK and it works quite well for vet mobs.

MudcrabAttack

Also Nightblade lotus fan is a 6m radius AOE teleport, it should work as well with tormentor. I might swap the stamblade over to tanking doing absolutely nothing after the planned crit cap

VaranisArano

We just had this thread yesterday, right?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586776/tanking-needs-a-group-pull#latest

And all the PVE group content has been done without an AOE taunt. So no, you don't need it.

Starlight_Knight

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Also Nightblade lotus fan is a 6m radius AOE teleport, it should work as well with tormentor. I might swap the stamblade over to tanking after the planned crit demolition, free up my Templar to jab things.

Nightblade wont proc tormentor, only the templar skill and the 2 h skill and werewolf currently only work.

Darkstorne

You really don't need it. Tormentor proved as much, though you're welcome to use it with Stampede on any class if you think it will make you a better tank. Whether trash mobs are hitting the tank or another player is usually irrelevant. What matters more is whether a tank can group them all up and lock them down, so DDs can roast them in heavenly AOE fire.

You only need to taunt the few real threats to group survivability. The healer will take care of any minor group damage quite easily through HOTs.

El_Borracho

Tanks prove their worth on bosses, not trash packs. The soft taunt of the Wall of Elements should be enough to get the adds to come to you. Or run a necro with Beckoning Armor to pull in the ranged adds

Tommy_The_Gun

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

With Stampede
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/stampede

Or Brutal Pounce
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/brutal-pounce

It works as an AOE Taunt. It is possible on other class too, not only Templar. I am not judging if it is good or bad or if it is necessary or not. The good thing (I guess) is that you can have a WW PvE tank, but it is defiantly not optimal or bis or anything like that. However I would say that it is at least viable.

thorwyn

There is absolutely zero need for an aoe taunt. DD's and healers are not as squishy as they are in other games. DD's and healers can still cast while being attacked unlike in other games. An aoe taunt would just dull down the game even more.

Amottica

VaranisArano wrote: »

We just had this thread yesterday, right?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586776/tanking-needs-a-group-pull#latest

And all the PVE group content has been done without an AOE taunt. So no, you don't need it.

I recently did my first DLC vet trial and noticed the tanks have to hold adds separately. One apparently had an AoE that stripped the armor from everyone in the area. I could see a tank trying to use an AoE taunt and causing all sorts of problems like wiping the group.

So if an AoE taunt is going to cause this much trouble in the more challenging content it seems you are not only right that it is not needed but it would be bad for the game. I think it is better for a tank to developed their skills from the start so they do not have to relearn how to tank when they hit the big leagues.

blktauna

lol I use Dark convergence as an aoe taunt and set the aggro right at the tank. Works great.

slimwaffle

blktauna wrote: »

lol I use Dark convergence as an aoe taunt and set the aggro right at the tank. Works great.

My new go to build. Uses Dragon Knight- 5* Dark Convergence, 5* Tormentor , 2* Scourge Harvester. Vampire for 30% damage reduction and the lady mundas stone.

It has made this game infinitely easier especially running vet dungeons. With majority of groups commenting on how much easier the dungeons are. Knocking out trifecta runs without even really trying all that much.

etchedpixels

El_Borracho wrote: »

Tanks prove their worth on bosses, not trash packs. The soft taunt of the Wall of Elements should be enough to get the adds to come to you. Or run a necro with Beckoning Armor to pull in the ranged adds

I would disagree - being able to stack the trash makes a huge dps difference, and with either tougher trash (eg Cyrodiil resources, or stuff like Sunspire), or weak damage dealers it's also much easier to keep everyone alive.

The soft taunt from wall doesn't work properly any more - it's been somewhat bugged (or deliberately changed) for an update or so now. It was never much use anyway because the run ahead of the tank and die DD would always trigger it first then wonder why they got flattened.

Tormentor works well, especially on a templar tank. You can mix it with DC and proc the DC with caltrops so you get the big debuff on them all too without then having to stick them all with your sword, or put DC on the healer and drop it with a healing circle round the tank. Right now DC is just insanely overpowered so I imagine it'll be a lot less useful as the second set next update - at least I hope it will.

For PUG groups, especially with low levels tormentor and hatchlings works nicely on a templar tank. You can mix the hatchlings shield with the templar shield, gap close into the trash before the DDs can make a mess of it and then lay waste to it with jabs if the pugs are hitting like jelly. That gives you enough shields to easily handle the normal content and stack a load in magicka so you can heal it and buff with magicka as well when you get a fake healer or a newb healer.

For more offense you can also happily mix tormentor and mother's sorrow or medusa on most content.

Starlight_Knight

slimwaffle wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

lol I use Dark convergence as an aoe taunt and set the aggro right at the tank. Works great.

My new go to build. Uses Dragon Knight- 5* Dark Convergence, 5* Tormentor , 2* Scourge Harvester. Vampire for 30% damage reduction and the lady mundas stone.

It has made this game infinitely easier especially running vet dungeons. With majority of groups commenting on how much easier the dungeons are. Knocking out trifecta runs without even really trying all that much.

Is dark convergence actually procing tormentor then, i thought procs shouldnt proc procs, unless you're using the 2h to proc tormentor ?

Froil

I never understand why people keep asking for an AoE taunt; it's unnecessary.
I've tanked many things, from overland to vet trials and I've never once been like "Oh gee you know what would make this better? An AoE taunt!" not to mention it's a waste of an item set to wear Tormentor when you could wear something that provides buffs/debuffs, especially in organized (guild/friend) groups, or if it's a pug group, a personal damage set.

Tanking in ESO is all about the tank taking the Big Bad Mob, the guy that's twice the size of everyone else or has flags on them or something like that or a big one shot ability that only a tank can survive, and letting all the smaller garbage die to AoEs while keeping them in with Chains/Leash and an immobilize ability. If you've pulled half the dungeon's trash mobs and you have a hundred of the garbage ones attacking you, you either face tank it which eventually it can whittle you down, or block it and that all takes away your stamina which you need to block the Big Bad's Big Bad Attack.

Narvuntien

Tanking in this game would be mind-numbingly boring if there was an AoE taunt. having to control trash or save a dps that is struggling is really the only action a tank gets.

Ksariyu

Yeah, I'm gonna have to hard disagree here. As it is I feel like AoEs play far too big a role in endgame - the fact that tanks actually have to pay attention to what they're taunting is the closest thing you get to immersion in this combat system.

etchedpixels

Froil wrote: »

Tanking in ESO is all about the tank taking the Big Bad Mob

Disagree somewhat. Tanking is about helping the group achieve their goal.

If that goal is a speedrun then you want to stack the trash fast for the group to AoE back to oblivion (or aggrro it all as you run through so that the squishies don't get killed running through the trash)

If that goal is keeping a load of newbies alive you want to taunt everything

In certain dungeons its a huge help because if the DPS are not too strong you can manage to taunt an awful lot of netches or daedroths with tormentor

Like all things it's a situational tool. It's totally useless fighting the killer chicken in AS, and it's a positive hazard in places you need to keep bosses apart or manage the aggro tightly whilst people kite other stuff.

tripp

As long as you're the first one to damage the trash, any AoE will act as a taunt - tagged mobs will target you for 5 to 9 seconds, and you should preferably use that time to reposition, group them up and drop another aoe on them so they keep focusing you. Pull any ranged stragglers and you're golden.
This is why we get mad at impatient dps who just have to click on enemies, get instagibbed and then type "HELLO TANK TAUNT???????????" in party chat.

WraithShadow13

One of my biggest gripes in game, at the moment, is that every normal dungeon is now forced to be a speed run. Some guy with a copy/paste build takes off, aggro'ing everything in the map as they run passed but not doing anything about it. So, once they've hit and run, the rest of the adds just run immediately towards everyone else on the team, sometimes getting stuck in choke points, so the rest of us can't even push through until we kill everything. It's incredibly frustrating.


I think an AOE taunt might help with that.


As a guy who has a tank that is actually a tank, i have a lot of those speed runners run ahead and aggro everything before i get the chance to, so it gets annoying to be the tank when someone else is drawing all the aggro on themselves, then screaming in all caps that i'm a bad tank.

I would love to get an aoe taunt, it would just get to the point that it was likely the only taunt used in game.

BagOfBadgers

Dark Convergence + Tormentor for all your AOE taunt needs. I use Caltrops to proc it as I'm double S&B. Taunts mobs great but not so much on bigger stuff. Very capable in vet dungeons as simple now to swap in to a selfish build (pc + add-ons/ Armoury). The 15 sec cool down is the only fun sponge.

Now if ZOS can get the damage to stack as intended........

It's a fun thing to use but does need a bit of skill.

McTaterskins

I think Inner Fire / Inner Beast should be an aoe taunt.

So when the half brained dd that slots inner fire cuz it makes them do more damage to a target and cause mobs to turn around or get over-taunted can automagically get swarmed and deleted.

Vevvev

McTaterskins wrote: »

I think Inner Fire / Inner Beast should be an aoe taunt.

So when the half brained dd that slots inner fire cuz it makes them do more damage to a target and cause mobs to turn around or get over-taunted can automagically get swarmed and deleted.

Please no.... Things like that are why I rarely pug tank because there's always that one person using a taunt who shouldn't. Used to be ice heavies and people using "Sword and board DPS" spamming Puncture, but while they got rid of the ice heavies taunting I see people doing the same mistakes and casting Ice Clench not realizing it's taunting and then yell at me when they're dead.

Fermian

Besides the design of the content it the amount of skills you can use is also an issue.

VaxtinTheWolf

Assuming if they were going to create an AOE taunt, It would probably be tied to the Undaunted Ultimate since that doesn't exist yet, or something of that level, and limited to 5-7 meters with a short duration.

Artim_X

If it were to exist, definitely only as an ultimate that is available to all. As mentioned an undaunted ultimate would be fitting especially considering that you don't really get anything skill wise for maxing out undaunted.

Maybe your character starts to sing the undaunted song for the ultimate and the aoe taunt is refreshed for as long as the player is singing. I'd love to see that.

Who knows no fear of beast or blade?
Undaunted, Undaunted!
Who knows no fear of daedric planes?
We are Undaunted!
Who knows no fear of death? Of age?
Undaunted, Undaunted! We are Undaunted!

BejaProphet

Artim_X wrote: »

If it were to exist, definitely only as an ultimate that is available to all. As mentioned an undaunted ultimate would be fitting especially considering that you don't really get anything skill wise for maxing out undaunted.

Maybe your character starts to sing the undaunted song for the ultimate and the aoe taunt is refreshed for as long as the player is singing. I'd love to see that.

Who knows no fear of beast or blade?
Undaunted, Undaunted!
Who knows no fear of daedric planes?
We are Undaunted!
Who knows no fear of death? Of age?
Undaunted, Undaunted! We are Undaunted!

If they added an achievement for using the drunk personality, and using this taunt you describe while naked, then dying within 8 seconds of using it…then I would at last give in and advocate this.