HOW DO PEOPLE SUSTAIN SO WELL - PVE?!?!?!

gamerguy757

So I really need assistance.
I’m watching videos on YouTube if people doing parses trying to learns different techniques to practice DPS.
My main issue is sustain. My resources deplete after like 1 min even with shards and Eye Bowl.
I watch people on YouTube doing parses with the exact same build as me, and their resources NEVER drop under like 75%.
Ex: I was watching a parse where the guy popped his potion, and went through his rotation, he was like at 75% resources then BOOM! All of a sudden, his bar is completely filled back up. And I know it wasn’t shards bc the shards came a few seconds later. So HOW?!?!
Like how do these people have like infinite sustain?

colossalvoids

Potions, cp and class related sustain tools?
(leeching strikes, netch, rune etc?)

Also not overcasting your dots and proper timing generally helps with sustain.

gamerguy757

It was MagCro and magsorc.

gamerguy757

It’s almost like for a split second they got back like 5000-10000 resources. Like how are they doing this

RandomKodiak

Race can also be an issue with sustain. Do you have the same CP slotted (only makes a bit of difference) also make sure you are using Ghastly Eye Bowl, there is another food that sounds a lot like it but does not give the right sustain. As Colossal said even 1 or two overcasts of DoTs and AoEs can really ruin sustain because they are so expensive. Can also switch from Orbs to Degeneration from mages guild it is a ton less expensive and not much less damage and many parsers use it.

RandomKodiak

Just remember to switch back for actual gameplay ^^

Amottica

colossalvoids wrote: »

Potions, cp and class related sustain tools?
(leeching strikes, netch, rune etc?)

Also not overcasting your dots and proper timing generally helps with sustain.

I assume Orbs and magicka steal help

perfiction

Most important things are:
- parse food (Ghastly Eye Bowl for mag DD, Lava Foot Soup-And-Saltrice for stam DD)
- correct potions (Essence of Spell Power [Lady’s Smock, Corn Flower, Water Hyacinth/Namira's Rot] for mag DD, Essence of Weapon Power [Dragonthorn, Blessed Thistle, Wormwood/Water Hyacinth] for stam DD)
- 3 points into Medicinal Use alchemy passive to increase duration of potion buffs
- CP stars increasing regeneration and max resources (Eldricht Insight/Tireless Discipline passives in blue tree, Rejuvenation slottable in red tree)
- dummy sends you shards synergy every 30 seconds - don't use it when your magicka/stamina is fairly high, it will be waste of resources
- don't cast your aoe/dots too quickly, they are fairly expensive compared to spammables so cast them only when their timer runs out
- if you're mag DD with sustain issues and you use undaunted Orb try using Degeneration or Scalding Rune from mages guild instead, they are noticeably cheaper yet their DPS is very close
- try to use the potion before around 20 seconds before starting parse (you'll have the buffs up and next potion will be available when your resources drop down), after that keep potion at 100% uptime

Also learning people tend to forget that higher dps = less sustain issues (you burn the dummy faster so you have less time to completely burn your magicka). When I started parsing I had huge sustain issues, now when I got better and hit 100k dps I can use Bahsei and burn my mana to 30% before starting the fight with no issues.

Amottica wrote: »

I assume Orbs and magicka steal help

Trial dummy already has magickasteal debuff, it also sends shards every 30s (shards and orbs synergy cooldown is shared)

Chaos2088

Press synergies that give you back res, make sure you are not over casting, using right pots, cps in the right place...etc etc

gamerguy757

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Race can also be an issue with sustain. Do you have the same CP slotted (only makes a bit of difference) also make sure you are using Ghastly Eye Bowl, there is another food that sounds a lot like it but does not give the right sustain. As Colossal said even 1 or two overcasts of DoTs and AoEs can really ruin sustain because they are so expensive. Can also switch from Orbs to Degeneration from mages guild it is a ton less expensive and not much less damage and many parsers use it.

I use an high elf for my mag dps.
I use degen and consuming trap but of course this works more on trash than boss.

I’m just super confused on how they get like 26% resources back

moo_2021

I found the key for sustain is to maintain the balance.

You need sufficient recovery that can just cover depletion, including timing of potions.

To get the numbers you need to install the Combat Metrics addon, which can show you how much resource you use every second and how fast it's generated.

Then put your build https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor and try to tweak skills, gears, enchants, mundus stone, food, and add buffs from potion of your choosing.

Food should normally should include Major X that boost recovery by 30%, and potion that you take every 45 seconds should recover X amounts of resource for you, if you have "Medicinal Use" skill and can keep 100% uptime during boss fights.

BoraxFlux

You got a link to the youtube video and the timestamp of that moment, where his bar fills up?

gamerguy757

BoraxFlux wrote: »

You got a link to the youtube video and the timestamp of that moment, where his bar fills up?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJTVicgG-sE

Watch around 40s. He’s at like 60% and his magicka just jumps right back up. He didn’t activate the shards yet and the potion was still on cooldown

Everest_Lionheart

gamerguy757 wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Race can also be an issue with sustain. Do you have the same CP slotted (only makes a bit of difference) also make sure you are using Ghastly Eye Bowl, there is another food that sounds a lot like it but does not give the right sustain. As Colossal said even 1 or two overcasts of DoTs and AoEs can really ruin sustain because they are so expensive. Can also switch from Orbs to Degeneration from mages guild it is a ton less expensive and not much less damage and many parsers use it.

I use an high elf for my mag dps.
I use degen and consuming trap but of course this works more on trash than boss.

I’m just super confused on how they get like 26% resources back

Undaunted command gives more rss back if you level it, but some classes have skills that give a big return when the skill expires like siphoning attacks on a magblade which restores roughly 1/2 the amount of a magicka potion when it expires.

Sustain is not terribly difficult on most classes though provided you aren’t overcasting as others have mentioned here. There is more to it than casting dots before they expire however and that is the GCD on skills. If you are button mashing and not casting your skills as a deliberate tempo roughly every second you will still be charged the cost of the skill even though it may not actually go off. Go slightly slower when parsing.

Try using a metronome set to 54-55 BPM and cast LA-skill like a heartbeat pattern with the beat. All of your skills and LA will land which will in turn also make minor magicka steal even more effective. Plus the fact you are going slower will give your recovery the ability to keep up. Just because you can weave faster doesn’t mean you should. It’s a delicate balance between skills firing, skill timers, recovery, potions and synergy use. All of the pieces work together to create that kind of sustain.

Varana

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Watch around 40s. He’s at like 60% and his magicka just jumps right back up. He didn’t activate the shards yet and the potion was still on cooldown

He does activate the synergy then, though. He's at like 58% when you see the synergy prompt disappear from his screen, meaning he took it.

gamerguy757

Varana wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Watch around 40s. He’s at like 60% and his magicka just jumps right back up. He didn’t activate the shards yet and the potion was still on cooldown

He does activate the synergy then, though. He's at like 58% when you see the synergy prompt disappear from his screen, meaning he took it.

Then can you help me understand how his magic stays so high? It looks like he’s casting so much but he never runs low on resources

Vevvev

If you're a vampire another trick for good sustain in solo content is to morph Eviscerate to Blood for Blood, and then equip either great healing abilities, Reaving Strikes CP, or the Ring of the Pale Order. They will allow you to cast the health cost spammable for effectively no cost, and thanks to BfB doing magic damage if you proc a magic status effect it afflicts the target with minor Magicka steal.

trackdemon5512

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Try using a metronome set to 54-55 BPM and cast LA-skill like a heartbeat pattern with the beat. All of your skills and LA will land which will in turn also make minor magicka steal even more effective. Plus the fact you are going slower will give your recovery the ability to keep up. Just because you can weave faster doesn’t mean you should. It’s a delicate balance between skills firing, skill timers, recovery, potions and synergy use. All of the pieces work together to create that kind of sustain.

Using a metronome to effectively weave is IMO frankly ridiculous. I’m speaking of the developer making this the way to achieve prime damage numbers rather than being far more dynamic and interesting.

If attacking just boils down to tick, tick, tick, tick ALL the time (which seriously it has been in PVE) then it’s no wonder ppl can’t enjoy content as they’re focused on the wrong thing.

Long story short, ZOS needs to redo combat.

MirandaSharp

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Watch around 40s. He’s at like 60% and his magicka just jumps right back up. He didn’t activate the shards yet and the potion was still on cooldown

He does activate the synergy then, though. He's at like 58% when you see the synergy prompt disappear from his screen, meaning he took it.

Then can you help me understand how his magic stays so high? It looks like he’s casting so much but he never runs low on resources

I suggest you modify the build and the rotation to include the regen you need to run the rotation comfortably. Most often the player is the difference. I watch Skinny Cheeks do his rotations on youtube and try it myself... No way I get the sustain or dps he gets, but I know it's not because of the build, it's because of the player. I'm not skinny, so I have to enchant one piece of jewelry with regen to parse comfortably.

Shantu

1. Efficient use of power pots. Take them as soon as the expire.
2. Use sustain synergies as soon as they are available. The sooner you take them the sooner they will recycle to use again.
3. Try not over-rotate your AOE's and DOT's by firing them off before they expire. Every AOE/DOT can be broken down by a cost per second. Over time, earlier firing increases the cost of the resource, which can quickly add up to sustain issues.
4. Be aware of class passives. For example, Sorcs have a Rebate passive that gives you back 300 resource when a Daedric Summoning ability ends (typically a Volatile Familiar). So here again, another incentive to not fire AOE/DOT skills before they expire.

People you see running parses with no sustain issues typically have well tuned and precise timing. Even an habitual 1 second early cast can significantly add up over an entire parse. Take a skill that costs 3000 magicka over 10 seconds. That's 300 per second. Say you cast that skill 1 second early 20 times in a parse. That's 6000 magicka lost from 1 skill. When you start doing that over multiple AOE/DOT skills or even casting earlier than 1 second, you can see that sustain eventually goes down the toilet.

Everest_Lionheart

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Try using a metronome set to 54-55 BPM and cast LA-skill like a heartbeat pattern with the beat. All of your skills and LA will land which will in turn also make minor magicka steal even more effective. Plus the fact you are going slower will give your recovery the ability to keep up. Just because you can weave faster doesn’t mean you should. It’s a delicate balance between skills firing, skill timers, recovery, potions and synergy use. All of the pieces work together to create that kind of sustain.

Using a metronome to effectively weave is IMO frankly ridiculous. I’m speaking of the developer making this the way to achieve prime damage numbers rather than being far more dynamic and interesting.

If attacking just boils down to tick, tick, tick, tick ALL the time (which seriously it has been in PVE) then it’s no wonder ppl can’t enjoy content as they’re focused on the wrong thing.

Long story short, ZOS needs to redo combat.

I never play content with a metronome only parse with it. What it effectively does is allow me to get into a solid rhythm and learn to repeat a pattern that I can commit to muscle memory. This way if I have to deal with a mechanic I can pick right up where I left of in rhythm with very little breaks or start over if say the fight is a mobile one.

The bonus to working with a metronome is knowing that every X seconds there is a mechanic that means I can associate with a particular spot in my rotation. Say every 30 seconds is one mechanic that means every 3rd cast of wall or skill relative to that cast will be the repeat of that same mechanic. This equals less time watching timers and more time for raid awareness for those mechanics that are RNG based.

Overall by practicing with that metronome to engrain the rotation in my memory I can flow with the actual combat more than worrying about which skill I need to cast and when. With that comfort level in my rotation I can actually look at the boss animations and notice things in the background that may align me to a better position. That’s why I practice so hard on the dummy. It may seem mechanical to some but to me it makes the actual play time that much more rewarding.

zaria

gamerguy757 wrote: »

BoraxFlux wrote: »

You got a link to the youtube video and the timestamp of that moment, where his bar fills up?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJTVicgG-sE

Watch around 40s. He’s at like 60% and his magicka just jumps right back up. He didn’t activate the shards yet and the potion was still on cooldown

False god for magic VO for stamina give lots of resources back then you kill stuff, awesome in trash fights.
The returned resources don't work well on bosses with none to few adds and lots of health as you need an long parse and you don't kill much.
It was so much going on in the preview of the video I thought it was an trash fight.
That jump was probably CP related.

Grandchamp1989

On a parse dummy I can't sustain on mag unless I go with Breton..

Stam is no problem, but in actual content a lot of roll dodges and blocks can be costly.

Rowjoh

Race, gear, skills and champion points all have a significant effect on sustain.

Finding the right balance is tricky but there are plenty of guides out there

Everest_Lionheart

Rowjoh wrote: »

Race, gear, skills and champion points all have a significant effect on sustain.

Finding the right balance is tricky but there are plenty of guides out there

Currently just play Khajiit and get all of the things. #masterrace

What_In_Tarnation

rotations probably play a big factor here, many players are afraid that they can't cast dots at the right timing, so they would rather cast them earlier before dots ran off. It's both resource and dps unnecessary loss.

JanTanhide

I don't find it difficult to maintain resources. Once you find the Skills that work with your rotation your sustain will improve. Throw a heavy attack in your rotation as well, esp if on a Mag Sorc with Crit Surge running.

Remember parses on a Dummy are not the same as running a dungeon with others or soloing a world boss. To me a parse means nothing if you cannot survive a fight. I've seen way too many high parse (100K DPS) players die within seconds of entering a Vet dungeon. They expect someone else to keep them alive and throw them resources. LOL.

Try soloing dungeons in normal then in vet including DLC dungeons. And world bosses but world bosses are pretty wimpy these days with a very few exceptions. Once you can do that and stay alive that top end parse won't mean so much.

gamerguy757

JanTanhide wrote: »

I don't find it difficult to maintain resources. Once you find the Skills that work with your rotation your sustain will improve. Throw a heavy attack in your rotation as well, esp if on a Mag Sorc with Crit Surge running.

Remember parses on a Dummy are not the same as running a dungeon with others or soloing a world boss. To me a parse means nothing if you cannot survive a fight. I've seen way too many high parse (100K DPS) players die within seconds of entering a Vet dungeon. They expect someone else to keep them alive and throw them resources. LOL.

Try soloing dungeons in normal then in vet including DLC dungeons. And world bosses but world bosses are pretty wimpy these days with a very few exceptions. Once you can do that and stay alive that top end parse won't mean so much.

See that’s what I’m saying!!!!!!!!
My parse might not be high (55k) but I SURVIVE. I know my positioning I know mechs, plus I’ve healed and tanked every dungeon so I know the fights. It just because my parse isn’t high people just say git gud but I’m a good. I just prioritize survival

Thannazzar

Breton with ability cost reduction jewelry and magicka steal.

tonyblack

JanTanhide wrote: »

I don't find it difficult to maintain resources. Once you find the Skills that work with your rotation your sustain will improve. Throw a heavy attack in your rotation as well, esp if on a Mag Sorc with Crit Surge running.

Remember parses on a Dummy are not the same as running a dungeon with others or soloing a world boss. To me a parse means nothing if you cannot survive a fight. I've seen way too many high parse (100K DPS) players die within seconds of entering a Vet dungeon. They expect someone else to keep them alive and throw them resources. LOL.

Try soloing dungeons in normal then in vet including DLC dungeons. And world bosses but world bosses are pretty wimpy these days with a very few exceptions. Once you can do that and stay alive that top end parse won't mean so much.

Tbh statements like yours are not accurate with how combat in this game works. Players who can parse 100k should be experienced to know their class and build well. Most heals scale with offensive stats (crit, sd, primal resource), small alteration to parse build like adding class offheal skill will let you survive everything you’ll face as dd in group content. More often than not it’s players who new to the game or old but ignorant enough to do some research of meta builds, optimal skills and rotations die the moment they aggro basic mob or step in aoe.

As for sustain: replace back bar enchantment with absorb magicka/stamina not huge dps loss, if not enough try to find a spot on your bar for spell symmetry along with class sustain skill, that should be enough. Always be sure you have all passives, correct cp and armor weight (all light or medium).